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Xzen
 Advanced Member
Joined: 5/01/06
A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands. |
7/30/12 6:06:48 PM#181
Originally posted by Aerowyn In that situation you are filling the role of a bad rogue not a tank. =P |
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7/30/12 6:09:33 PM#182
I saw the video earlier and thought it was interesting. I'll definitely be experimenting with group compositions come release. On another note, Guild Wars 2 does not have a holy trinity. And no amount of mental gymnastics will change that. |
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7/30/12 6:16:43 PM#183
I'm personally glade they smashed the trinity. Now when you want to do some group content, you just grab a bunch of people and go, not worrying about who's what. This is a nice step in the right direction for once! =D |
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7/30/12 6:20:45 PM#184
Sigh, lets just stop the argument here; There is no dedicated trinity play. What Anet means by no trinity is that you do not have to have specific classes to make a group viable. Now what I am worried about in this game, because you know it will happen somehow... The Community creating a 'trinity effect'. You know with "Must have XX skill and YY etc". Because if there is a way to ruin a good idea, it always starts with the community at large. There are 3 types of people in the world.
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7/30/12 6:25:39 PM#185
Originally posted by Xzen how you are preseting your argument as long as you are taking mobs attention away from others you are filling the role of a tank per say. That is very differn't than controlling mobs aggro and mitigating damage done to you. It also plays out very differn't as well. I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg |
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7/30/12 6:26:23 PM#186
Wait a minute... You're telling me this whole time the devs were actually right and Pokket was wrong the whole time? This whole time I thought "the trinity isn’t gone, it just works differently" because of her!
http://www.gamebreaker.tv/uncategorized/this-week-in-mmo-60-pax-pax-pax/ 15:46 Anybody actually remember this episode? |
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7/30/12 6:29:08 PM#187
Originally posted by Aerowyn Remember, Anet defines the core of the tank's purpose as Control. What you are doing is control, not tanking. |
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Xzen
Advanced Member
Joined: 5/01/06
A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands. |
7/30/12 6:31:15 PM#188
Originally posted by Aerowyn No the difference is if you are filling that role or not. Intentionally holding aggro and pulling aggro accidently are two different things. Then again even in WoW they say to everyone "You spank it you tank it." no matter what class you are. Tanking is a role that the player takes on it's not determined by what skills you have. |
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7/30/12 6:38:34 PM#189
Originally posted by Xzen by how you guys are viewing this no traditional style MMORPG can ever not have the trinity system. I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg |
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7/30/12 6:44:48 PM#190
Holy trinity is not determined by the presence of dealing/taking/healing damage... that would make any game that has HP you can fill back up a holy trinity game (Like Metroid).... it's determined by them being playable, required roles. They're the trinity because they're all needed for (at the least, high end) content. |
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7/30/12 6:50:03 PM#191
Sorry to burst anyone's bubble but that video proves nothing.
You can do the same thing in EQ2, or even EQ, with a pure DPS group and no healing. Done it personally with friends, and multiboxing, just fine on multiple occasions.
Not sure why people concentrated so heavily on this video? The Theory of Conservative Conservation of Ignorant Stupidity: |
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7/30/12 6:57:28 PM#192
Originally posted by Fadedbomb Seems like there would be a difference between some players doing a dungeon for the first time (and with inappropirate gear), and veteran players grinding a dungeon for the zillionth time. It possible to do in other games, but generally so hards its a non-issue. The point being the game clearly supports the idea of playing with any group comp you wish.
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7/30/12 7:03:35 PM#193
Originally posted by Fadedbomb Well those games do have gear inflation unlike GW2 where it's a plataue, did you complete those at lvl and at gear lvl being not epiced out? But since it's inception ANet has stated that GW2 will be on the basis of bring any class whoever class philosophy so really don't see why people are getting all in a hufff n a puff over this. Not like we didn't see this coming a year ago. |
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7/30/12 9:19:38 PM#194
Originally posted by Purgatus I love GW2 but this claim to the death of the trinity is just not true. Non-traditional healing is not new to MMOs, rare but not new. Fact is in every encounter someone has to heal, mitigate damage and DPS. Its not one persons job in the team but at any given moment its most likely happening. Its not done in the terditional sense but its there. Matter of fact you cant get any content done without healing, damage mitigation and dps, in GW2. To say there is no trinity in GW2, we would need to remove the need of at least 1 leg of the trinity. The fact its NEEDED to get content done shows its there and alive. I like how ANet has turned it on its head and made it a new and fresh approach. Its about time, but its not gone or dead. No MMO has been able to remove it as of yet, |
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7/30/12 9:22:38 PM#195
Originally posted by Nanfoodle again in this mindset no game like this will probably ever drop what you view as a trinity based system. I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg |
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Comaf
 Elite Member
Joined: 7/13/10
I want an mmorpg where pvp matters, my enemies are not my race or class, and community matters. |
7/30/12 9:28:38 PM#196
You can take 5 rogues and let them dps in a number of places in WoW that are comparable to Ascalon. It's just not viable for people who have a schedule.
I applaud the OP, though, I would never want to deal with that much BS in a dungeon. Get me a tank and a healer - the dynamic of the RPG is what really makes a game fun.
[mod edit] But hey, before I get banned for speaking my mind as an adult, let me say that GW2 looks like a very fun video game. [mod edit]
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7/30/12 9:31:37 PM#197
So you can get to max level in one weekend? Or was the leveling process sped up for the beta? |
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7/30/12 9:39:38 PM#198
Originally posted by Nanfoodle Did you see that video? They were all new to the dungeon, and had just one rule, you had to spec for DPS. No one speced for Support OR Control. NO healers and NO tanks. Not even in the GW2 sense of the word. It seems clear that your definition of the Holy Trinity does not match that of the populace. My understanding of it is this:
The Tank absorbs hits and focuses the mob so that it hits no one else. He is speced so that hits do less damage to him than anyone else. The Healer focuses healing solely on the tank (Unless something goes very wrong). He makes sure that the Tank survives. The DPS does the damage, as the other two roles do next to nothing to the enemy.
And to top it all off, each role focuses on this to the exclusion of everything else. All major content must be handled with AT LEAST these three types.
So how does GW2 break away from this? First off they re-define the roles. The Tank is a specialist form of Control. Manipulating the enemies, and keeping them from harming the group. It needs to be clear you can CONTROL a mob without TANKING them. They are two different things. The Healer is a reactive form of Support, assisting your team in the dealing and reciving of damage. It needs to be clear that you can SUPPORT your team without HEALING them. They are two different things. DPS is pretty standard to all games, and needs no comment here.
So outside of re-defining the roles, now we add in the idea that each Profession has the ability to perform any role, but in a way unique to that profession. As a Thief I could DPS the mob, I could specialize in poisons and traps to CONTROL his movments, or I could SUPPORT by giveing them poisoned weapons or stealthing them in crisis. So now any profession can take up any role and contribute in a way different than the Holy Trinity directs.
Not only do wn not have the traditional three roles of the holy trinity, but now we do not have to constrict ourselves to that role alone.
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7/30/12 9:54:29 PM#199
I just love how the guy complains about deaths while standing in a TRAP! SPIKE ARENT GOOD FOR YOUR HEALTH! Oh and when the add comes up behind him I was like "HEAL YOURSELF!" and then he died... Why does no one in vids heal themselves?
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Zorgo
 Elite Member
Joined: 12/05/05
Who did wrong? The advertiser hired to sell the game or the consumer who put faith in advertising? |
7/30/12 10:02:31 PM#200
Originally posted by mikuniman And it may take you a couple of years, but, I think what he is saying is, one day you will wake up and realize: The emperor wears no clothes. |
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