Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by terrant

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by Homitu

-that individual players will no longer be locked into performing any one of these roles exclusively.

Dident Rift do this to an extent?

Yes, to an extent.

However Rift is still designed around having a tank (holds threat / takes dmg), healer, and dps roles. You still can't complete a dungeon w/ out having a tank, healer & dps.

What rift did was basically take those roles, and gave players the option to fill at least two of them (and switch between them at will). However, WoW, WAR, and SWTOR all did this as well. And I don't think anyone would try and say that any of those games aren't based on the trinity model.

Yes and no. Rift still had solid T, H, and D roles, and players were stuck in them during combat.

 

My Cleric was a Justicar/somethingoranother tank build most of the time, but had a Shaman/Druid DPS spec I switched to when needed. The main importance being I could only do this out of combat.

 

In the GW2 model I can be fulfilling all three roles in the same fight without swapping talent trees or whatever.

Pretty sure we just said the same thing?

Yes...and no :)

The big difference is that in Rift, you had to wait until combat ended, take a couple seconds, swap specs, recover any change in health/mana pools, then resume combat in your new spec. If your tank dropped out halfway through combat, you were screwed. You couldn't really switching between them "at will" because you had to wait for a given fight to end.

In GW2 you are all roles, all the time. No talent switching, and you're doing all three simultaneously, instead of "I'm a tank, next fight I'll heal" or whatever. Think of it as...turned based versus real time. In a way.

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.

Can everone Tank? Sure

Can everyone Heal? Sure

Can everyone DPS? Sure

Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.

NO NO NO lol you people make me furious lol

You can't say "dedicated roles aside" because the concept of dedicated roles versus non-dedicated (free form/fluid whatver) is what this is ALL about.

I sure can say it. Your saying its dead. doesent exist in GW2. ALL those rolls are present in GW2. There for its NOT dead.

 

Doesent mater if JOE started out the fight dpsing then had to heal KATE then started contol on MOB C then went back to DPS.

 

At this point in the discussion it doesent mater anymore. Im not here to make you believe my point of view on the subject. Was just stating my views on the subject. Might as well start a dicussion on whos religion is the best.

Well damn in this case even games that didn't have the trinity system, have it.

Bingo!!! No MMO has yet. But so far I like GW2s best!!!

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Im gona stop here. I get why many of you say the trinity is dead. No one class will ever play the tank and be the only tank in the team. Same with healing and DPS. All I am saying is I dont think the trinity is dead because all classes will be doing all 3 roles. Fighting a boss the team will take turns doing all 3 roles. For me, thats why I dont think the trinity is dead. All 3 roles are in the game and at any given time fighting a boss they will all be in play. For the trinity to be dead IMO would have to have 1 of 2 things happen.

1. Remove healing or tanking all together. No one does it.

2. Everyone does all 3 roles equally. 

Because #2 is not true in GW2, when poop hits the fan or you have a raid in WvW going on. People are going to looking to classes to do what they do best so we win. You dont think guilds wont be looking for people to play Sheild Guardians and pasive heal Guardians for healing and mitigation? Their HoT is better then any class. If a class does something 3-5% better then guilds will look for that edge. 3% here, 1% here, 5% over here and now you have a huge advantage. Right now min maxing is hard to do with a new game. Give it 6 months and it will be set in stone unless ANet changes what they have built now. 

trinity system (as you have tested) is tank,healer and dps

now lets take WoW as an example...

to be able to clear a instance you 1 Warrior (prot spec) 1 Priest (holy spec) 3 rogues (sure not the best setup but thats not the point now) and how they work it pretty clear. with other words dedicated tank and healer is needed.

dedicated = you need spec + gear. you dont tank in dps gear or tank in dps spec

now that point with GW2 is you dont need to be "prot spec" (aka dedicated) to "tank" as a warrior (hell you dont need a warrior/guardian to run an instance according to ANET). if you wish you can run an instance with 5 warriors even. 

with no dedicated roles there are no trinity system. sure some class "can" heal/tank but they dont need to spec or gear to do it

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Im gona stop here. I get why many of you say the trinity is dead. No one class will ever play the tank and be the only tank in the team. Same with healing and DPS. All I am saying is I dont think the trinity is dead because all classes will be doing all 3 roles. Fighting a boss the team will take turns doing all 3 roles. For me, thats why I dont think the trinity is dead. All 3 roles are in the game and at any given time fighting a boss they will all be in play. For the trinity to be dead IMO would have to have 1 of 2 things happen.

1. Remove healing or tanking all together. No one does it.

2. Everyone does all 3 roles equally. 

Because #2 is not true in GW2, when poop hits the fan or you have a raid in WvW going on. People are going to looking to classes to do what they do best so we win. You dont think guilds wont be looking for people to play Sheild Guardians and pasive heal Guardians for healing and mitigation? Their HoT is better then any class. If a class does something 3-5% better then guilds will look for that edge. 3% here, 1% here, 5% over here and now you have a huge advantage. Right now min maxing is hard to do with a new game. Give it 6 months and it will be set in stone unless ANet changes what they have built now. 

I see what you're saying. And I don't necessarily disagree.

I think the problem lies in the assumption that these roles are somehow forced, or required. One of the good things (imho) about GW2's class system, is that it gives people the tools to play how they want in a lot of ways. It's not limitless, but there is a ton of freedom.

Because of this, you can definitely try and play classes more like traditional roles. However, there's a key difference here. In a trinity system the game is imposing these roles on you. In GW2, if you play it in such a way, you are actually imposing these roles on yourself. You're basically trying to make the game play like what you're used to.

Nothing wrong with that, it's a good thing that there is that flexibility, but it doesn't mean the game is built around a trinity system.

With this im out of this conversation. Its one of those rare occasions that both side are right. No there is no trinity when it comes to locked rolls. Yes there is a trinity when it comes to mechanics

Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm just glad that people can finally play any class and any build without worrying about whether or not they'll be able to play with their friends or accomplish their goals.

Elitist players and their guilds will find ways to create req builds for the dungeons. I hope not but I fear that it will happen regardless.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.

Can everone Tank? Sure

Can everyone Heal? Sure

Can everyone DPS? Sure

Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.

NO NO NO lol you people make me furious lol

You can't say "dedicated roles aside" because the concept of dedicated roles versus non-dedicated (free form/fluid whatver) is what this is ALL about.

I sure can say it. Your saying its dead. doesent exist in GW2. ALL those rolls are present in GW2. There for its NOT dead.

 

Doesent mater if JOE started out the fight dpsing then had to heal KATE then started contol on MOB C then went back to DPS.

 

At this point in the discussion it doesent mater anymore. Im not here to make you believe my point of view on the subject. Was just stating my views on the subject. Might as well start a dicussion on whos religion is the best.

Well damn in this case even games that didn't have the trinity system, have it.

Bingo!!! No MMO has yet. But so far I like GW2s best!!!

Damn I wonder what a game would be like with no trinity, or one where everyone has and can perform roles and does not need a specific role to be successful, I do wonder what game that would be lol.

Thought a trinity would be like we need you to do that role and him to do that role and her to do that role, in order to kill him, but not a trinity if he does the same role as others kill that boss succefully. 

Trinity is not there but it is, I guess.

Originally posted by zipzap

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Im gona stop here. I get why many of you say the trinity is dead. No one class will ever play the tank and be the only tank in the team. Same with healing and DPS. All I am saying is I dont think the trinity is dead because all classes will be doing all 3 roles. Fighting a boss the team will take turns doing all 3 roles. For me, thats why I dont think the trinity is dead. All 3 roles are in the game and at any given time fighting a boss they will all be in play. For the trinity to be dead IMO would have to have 1 of 2 things happen.

1. Remove healing or tanking all together. No one does it.

2. Everyone does all 3 roles equally. 

Because #2 is not true in GW2, when poop hits the fan or you have a raid in WvW going on. People are going to looking to classes to do what they do best so we win. You dont think guilds wont be looking for people to play Sheild Guardians and pasive heal Guardians for healing and mitigation? Their HoT is better then any class. If a class does something 3-5% better then guilds will look for that edge. 3% here, 1% here, 5% over here and now you have a huge advantage. Right now min maxing is hard to do with a new game. Give it 6 months and it will be set in stone unless ANet changes what they have built now. 

trinity system (as you have tested) is tank,healer and dps

now lets take WoW as an example...

to be able to clear a instance you 1 Warrior (prot spec) 1 Priest (holy spec) 3 rogues (sure not the best setup but thats not the point now) and how they work it pretty clear. with other words dedicated tank and healer is needed.

 

dedicated = you need spec + gear. you dont tank in dps gear or tank in dps spec

 

now that point with GW2 is you dont need to be "prot spec" (aka dedicated) to "tank" as a warrior (hell you dont need a warrior/guardian to run an instance according to ANET). if you wish you can run an instance with 5 warriors even. 

 

with no dedicated roles there are no trinity system. sure some class "can" heal/tank but they dont need to spec or gear to do it

Which class can tank?!?!?!!?!? lol, I just wanted to know. Because the AI disagree unfortunately. :(

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by zipzap

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Im gona stop here. I get why many of you say the trinity is dead. No one class will ever play the tank and be the only tank in the team. Same with healing and DPS. All I am saying is I dont think the trinity is dead because all classes will be doing all 3 roles. Fighting a boss the team will take turns doing all 3 roles. For me, thats why I dont think the trinity is dead. All 3 roles are in the game and at any given time fighting a boss they will all be in play. For the trinity to be dead IMO would have to have 1 of 2 things happen.

1. Remove healing or tanking all together. No one does it.

2. Everyone does all 3 roles equally. 

Because #2 is not true in GW2, when poop hits the fan or you have a raid in WvW going on. People are going to looking to classes to do what they do best so we win. You dont think guilds wont be looking for people to play Sheild Guardians and pasive heal Guardians for healing and mitigation? Their HoT is better then any class. If a class does something 3-5% better then guilds will look for that edge. 3% here, 1% here, 5% over here and now you have a huge advantage. Right now min maxing is hard to do with a new game. Give it 6 months and it will be set in stone unless ANet changes what they have built now. 

trinity system (as you have tested) is tank,healer and dps

now lets take WoW as an example...

to be able to clear a instance you 1 Warrior (prot spec) 1 Priest (holy spec) 3 rogues (sure not the best setup but thats not the point now) and how they work it pretty clear. with other words dedicated tank and healer is needed.

 

dedicated = you need spec + gear. you dont tank in dps gear or tank in dps spec

 

now that point with GW2 is you dont need to be "prot spec" (aka dedicated) to "tank" as a warrior (hell you dont need a warrior/guardian to run an instance according to ANET). if you wish you can run an instance with 5 warriors even. 

 

with no dedicated roles there are no trinity system. sure some class "can" heal/tank but they dont need to spec or gear to do it

Which class can tank?!?!?!!?!? lol, I just wanted to know. Because the AI disagree unfortunately. :(

you totally missed the point.... im saying that there is no "tanks"

delete

delete

Originally posted by zipzap

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by zipzap

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Im gona stop here. I get why many of you say the trinity is dead. No one class will ever play the tank and be the only tank in the team. Same with healing and DPS. All I am saying is I dont think the trinity is dead because all classes will be doing all 3 roles. Fighting a boss the team will take turns doing all 3 roles. For me, thats why I dont think the trinity is dead. All 3 roles are in the game and at any given time fighting a boss they will all be in play. For the trinity to be dead IMO would have to have 1 of 2 things happen.

1. Remove healing or tanking all together. No one does it.

2. Everyone does all 3 roles equally. 

Because #2 is not true in GW2, when poop hits the fan or you have a raid in WvW going on. People are going to looking to classes to do what they do best so we win. You dont think guilds wont be looking for people to play Sheild Guardians and pasive heal Guardians for healing and mitigation? Their HoT is better then any class. If a class does something 3-5% better then guilds will look for that edge. 3% here, 1% here, 5% over here and now you have a huge advantage. Right now min maxing is hard to do with a new game. Give it 6 months and it will be set in stone unless ANet changes what they have built now. 

trinity system (as you have tested) is tank,healer and dps

now lets take WoW as an example...

to be able to clear a instance you 1 Warrior (prot spec) 1 Priest (holy spec) 3 rogues (sure not the best setup but thats not the point now) and how they work it pretty clear. with other words dedicated tank and healer is needed.

 

dedicated = you need spec + gear. you dont tank in dps gear or tank in dps spec

 

now that point with GW2 is you dont need to be "prot spec" (aka dedicated) to "tank" as a warrior (hell you dont need a warrior/guardian to run an instance according to ANET). if you wish you can run an instance with 5 warriors even. 

 

with no dedicated roles there are no trinity system. sure some class "can" heal/tank but they dont need to spec or gear to do it

Which class can tank?!?!?!!?!? lol, I just wanted to know. Because the AI disagree unfortunately. :(

you totally missed the point.... im saying that there is no "tanks"

 

 

 

I agreed lol. 

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm just glad that people can finally play any class and any build without worrying about whether or not they'll be able to play with their friends or accomplish their goals.

Elitist players and their guilds will find ways to create req builds for the dungeons. I hope not but I fear that it will happen regardless.

Here is how it will work, happened with WoW and add ons. Guilds find what classes do what best in combo with what classes. They will get a 5-15% boots from doing so, so other guilds will follow suit to be able to keep up. Now content is 5-15% easier then it should be so ANet needs to take it up a notch to keep things fun and hard. Now everyone really needs to follow suit. Only way to stop this is if ANet changes the classes to make everyone equal at each area of the game. A Gaurdian HoT pasive heals are just as good as a Elementalist. Guardian sheilds for tanking are equal to.... so on and so forth. It can only go 2 ways. 

This was the same for WoW and add ons. Guilds were killing content so Blizzard could remove add ons or make content harder and force everyone to use add ons. They went with forcing everyone to use add ons. ANet is in the same boat with roles. Make everyone equal or min maxing on what class does what role better will be the way. Trinity is not dead. Wait 6 months and see. This one is in ANets hands.

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.

Can everone Tank? Sure

Can everyone Heal? Sure

Can everyone DPS? Sure

Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.

NO NO NO lol you people make me furious lol

You can't say "dedicated roles aside" because the concept of dedicated roles versus non-dedicated (free form/fluid whatver) is what this is ALL about.

I sure can say it. Your saying its dead. doesent exist in GW2. ALL those rolls are present in GW2. There for its NOT dead.

 

Doesent mater if JOE started out the fight dpsing then had to heal KATE then started contol on MOB C then went back to DPS.

 

At this point in the discussion it doesent mater anymore. Im not here to make you believe my point of view on the subject. Was just stating my views on the subject. Might as well start a dicussion on whos religion is the best.

Okay, you can try to define "holy trinity" to mean that healing, damage mitigation, and damage exist, but that is a bad idea.  It makes the term completely worthless because EVERY, yes EVERY MMO that involves combat has those concepts.  Even UO!  Heck, even several fighting games, FPS's and RTS's have those roles.

Second, the definition of holy trinity meaning there are classes that are more or less dedicated to the trinity roles in combat is pretty much the accepted definition.  If you don't believe me...check out these sites:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132607/rethinking_the_trinity_of_mmo_.php?print=1

http://keithengel.hubpages.com/hub/Cause-of-MMO-Stagnation-The-Holy-Trinity-of-the-MMO

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5557

http://surlygamer.net/2012/04/22/mmo-evolution-life-after-the-holy-trinity/

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/holy-trinity-outdated/

When you try to redefine the holy trinity to mean that damage, healing, and mitigation simply exist, then you are not only rendering the term useless, you are also going against the definition that just about everyone else uses for no real reason other than to prove that you're right or something.

Also...there is already a term for the thing in games that involves damage, mitigation, and healing...it's called combat.

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm just glad that people can finally play any class and any build without worrying about whether or not they'll be able to play with their friends or accomplish their goals.

Elitist players and their guilds will find ways to create req builds for the dungeons. I hope not but I fear that it will happen regardless.

 

Here is how it will work, happened with WoW and add ons. Guilds find what classes do what best in combo with what classes. They will get a 5-15% boots from doing so, so other guilds will follow suit to be able to keep up. Now content is 5-15% easier then it should be so ANet needs to take it up a notch to keep things fun and hard. Now everyone really needs to follow suit. Only way to stop this is if ANet changes the classes to make everyone equal at each area of the game. A Gaurdian HoT pasive heals are just as good as a Elementalist. Guardian sheilds for tanking are equal to.... so on and so forth. It can only go 2 ways. 

This was the same for WoW and add ons. Guilds were killing content so Blizzard could remove add ons or make content harder and force everyone to use add ons. They went with forcing everyone to use add ons. ANet is in the same boat with roles. Make everyone equal or min maxing on what class does what role better will be the way. Trinity is not dead. Wait 6 months and see. This one is in ANets hands.

Trinity is dead - Unlike WoW and Rift, for example - 10 skills can only be used and no mods of any kind. One would need more skills to do what you are proposing, since one will be a self heal - 4 will be tied to your weapons that leave 4 and one elite. I doubt you could heal or prot, or tank like you can in Rift, etc. Also the mobs move more in GW2 than they do in any other game - they do not sit still.

You are missing the point.

Originally posted by botrytis

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by OldManFunk

I'm just glad that people can finally play any class and any build without worrying about whether or not they'll be able to play with their friends or accomplish their goals.

Elitist players and their guilds will find ways to create req builds for the dungeons. I hope not but I fear that it will happen regardless.

 

Here is how it will work, happened with WoW and add ons. Guilds find what classes do what best in combo with what classes. They will get a 5-15% boots from doing so, so other guilds will follow suit to be able to keep up. Now content is 5-15% easier then it should be so ANet needs to take it up a notch to keep things fun and hard. Now everyone really needs to follow suit. Only way to stop this is if ANet changes the classes to make everyone equal at each area of the game. A Gaurdian HoT pasive heals are just as good as a Elementalist. Guardian sheilds for tanking are equal to.... so on and so forth. It can only go 2 ways. 

This was the same for WoW and add ons. Guilds were killing content so Blizzard could remove add ons or make content harder and force everyone to use add ons. They went with forcing everyone to use add ons. ANet is in the same boat with roles. Make everyone equal or min maxing on what class does what role better will be the way. Trinity is not dead. Wait 6 months and see. This one is in ANets hands.

Trinity is dead - Unlike WoW and Rift, for example - 10 skills can only be used and no mods of any kind. One would need more skills to do what you are proposing, since one will be a self heal - 4 will be tied to your weapons that leave 4 and one elite. I doubt you could heal or prot, or tank like you can in Rift, etc. Also the mobs move more in GW2 than they do in any other game - they do not sit still.

You are missing the point.

 Even if you could spec your class out to be a "pure healer" or "pure tank" it wouldn't even matter because there is no aggro control.  Trinity combat completely revolves around the tank being able to hold aggro.  Take that away, no more trinity combat.

Even in WoW, if you removed the ability for tanks to hold aggro, the game would cease to be a trinity game.  It would also be an incredibly broken game, but that's besides the point :).

Originally posted by Creslin321

 Even if you could spec your class out to be a "pure healer" or "pure tank" it wouldn't even matter because there is no aggro control.  Trinity combat completely revolves around the tank being able to hold aggro.  Take that away, no more trinity combat.

Even in WoW, if you removed the ability for tanks to hold aggro, the game would cease to be a trinity game.  It would also be an incredibly broken game, but that's besides the point :).

if going by that definition - then Guild Wars already did it in 2005

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.

Can everone Tank? Sure

Can everyone Heal? Sure

Can everyone DPS? Sure

Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.

NO NO NO lol you people make me furious lol

You can't say "dedicated roles aside" because the concept of dedicated roles versus non-dedicated (free form/fluid whatver) is what this is ALL about.

I sure can say it. Your saying its dead. doesent exist in GW2. ALL those rolls are present in GW2. There for its NOT dead.

 

Doesent mater if JOE started out the fight dpsing then had to heal KATE then started contol on MOB C then went back to DPS.

 

At this point in the discussion it doesent mater anymore. Im not here to make you believe my point of view on the subject. Was just stating my views on the subject. Might as well start a dicussion on whos religion is the best.

Okay, you can try to define "holy trinity" to mean that healing, damage mitigation, and damage exist, but that is a bad idea.  It makes the term completely worthless because EVERY, yes EVERY MMO that involves combat has those concepts.  Even UO!  Heck, even several fighting games, FPS's and RTS's have those roles.

Second, the definition of holy trinity meaning there are classes that are more or less dedicated to the trinity roles in combat is pretty much the accepted definition.  If you don't believe me...check out these sites:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132607/rethinking_the_trinity_of_mmo_.php?print=1

http://keithengel.hubpages.com/hub/Cause-of-MMO-Stagnation-The-Holy-Trinity-of-the-MMO

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5557

http://surlygamer.net/2012/04/22/mmo-evolution-life-after-the-holy-trinity/

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/holy-trinity-outdated/

When you try to redefine to redefine the holy trinity to mean that damage, healing, and mitigation simply exist, then you are not only rendering the term useless, you are also going against the definition that just about everyone else uses for no real reason other than to prove that you're right or something.

Also...there is already a term for the thing in games that involves damage, mitigation, and healing...it's called combat.

No it breaks it down to its small core elements. Lets look at it this way. Dr tells a guys that if he does not stop eating a Mc Donalds he will die. So he stops eating cheap burgers and fries and all the sugar from pop. So he heads down to a high classes restaurant and skips the food the Dr said is killing him and now eats nothing but fine dining. He dies 3 years later. Why? Because it was not  cheap burgers and fries but the food he ate had the same fat content. 

GW2 may not be WoWs cheap burgers and fries but is still made up of meat and potatoes. Differently proportioned but still the same stuff. If ANet had removed healing I could agree with you. Same with tanking. But the same game mechanics are there, tanking, healing and DPS. Other problem is the classes are not even equal at the same roles. So guild min maxing is going to take place. No longer will they say we need someone to till x,y,z role. They will say what classes can fill them best. Now everyone is healing but we also want a Guardian to be there for that extra boost. Everyone takes turns tanking but we want X class to be there for when he enrages.

I have been reading the top end guilds forums and they have been testing this out and it works. The trinity is not dead, its just dressed differently. And people will be demanding X class for WvW to play y role more oten then its other 3 it can do. 

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.

Can everone Tank? Sure

Can everyone Heal? Sure

Can everyone DPS? Sure

Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.

NO NO NO lol you people make me furious lol

You can't say "dedicated roles aside" because the concept of dedicated roles versus non-dedicated (free form/fluid whatver) is what this is ALL about.

I sure can say it. Your saying its dead. doesent exist in GW2. ALL those rolls are present in GW2. There for its NOT dead.

 

Doesent mater if JOE started out the fight dpsing then had to heal KATE then started contol on MOB C then went back to DPS.

 

At this point in the discussion it doesent mater anymore. Im not here to make you believe my point of view on the subject. Was just stating my views on the subject. Might as well start a dicussion on whos religion is the best.

Okay, you can try to define "holy trinity" to mean that healing, damage mitigation, and damage exist, but that is a bad idea.  It makes the term completely worthless because EVERY, yes EVERY MMO that involves combat has those concepts.  Even UO!  Heck, even several fighting games, FPS's and RTS's have those roles.

Second, the definition of holy trinity meaning there are classes that are more or less dedicated to the trinity roles in combat is pretty much the accepted definition.  If you don't believe me...check out these sites:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132607/rethinking_the_trinity_of_mmo_.php?print=1

http://keithengel.hubpages.com/hub/Cause-of-MMO-Stagnation-The-Holy-Trinity-of-the-MMO

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5557

http://surlygamer.net/2012/04/22/mmo-evolution-life-after-the-holy-trinity/

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/holy-trinity-outdated/

When you try to redefine to redefine the holy trinity to mean that damage, healing, and mitigation simply exist, then you are not only rendering the term useless, you are also going against the definition that just about everyone else uses for no real reason other than to prove that you're right or something.

Also...there is already a term for the thing in games that involves damage, mitigation, and healing...it's called combat.

No it breaks it down to its smile core elements. Lets look at it this way. Dr tells a guys that if he does not stop eating a Mc Donalds he will die. So he stops eating cheap burgers and fries and all the sugar from pop. So he heads down to a high classes restaurant and skips the food the Dr said is killing him and now eats nothing but fine dining. He dies 3 years later. Why? Because it was not  cheap burgers and fries but the food he ate had the same fat content. 

GW2 may not be WoWs cheap burgers and fries but is still made up of meat and potatoes. Differently proportioned but still the same stuff. If ANet had removed healing I could agree with you. Same with tanking. But the same game mechanics are there, tanking, healing and DPS. Other problem is the classes are not even equal at the same roles. So guild min maxing is going to take place. No longer will they say we need someone to till x,y,z role. They will say what classes can fill them best. Now everyone is healing but we also want a Guardian to be there for that extra boost. Everyone takes turns tanking but we want X class to be there for when he enrages.

I have been reading the top end guilds forums and they have been testing this out and it works. The trinity is not dead, its just dressed differently. And people will be demanding X class for WvW to play y role more oten then its other 3 it can do. 

Your analogy makes no sense.

I award you no points.

And may god have mercy on your soul :).

Billy Madison aside....you do realize none of your "tanking" scenarios will work because YOU CAN'T CONTROL AGGRO.  Even if you make a spec that has the best damage mitigation possible, it seriously won't matter when the mob kills your squishyy elementalist who delibaritely specced glass cannon so he could be "DPS" because you couldn't peel the mob off of him.

Yes you can spec to have more control, yes you can spec to have more DPS or support...but this does NOT make GW2 a trinity game.  Trinity means something VERY SPECIFIC.  You have to have a tank controlling aggro, DPS doing most of the damage, and a healer keeping the tank up and saving DPS if they get aggro.  If you don't have that, it's not a holy trinity game...that simple.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by kantseeme

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Nanfoodle

I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

Dedicated roles aside. The Trinity is defined as Tank/Healer/DPS.

Can everone Tank? Sure

Can everyone Heal? Sure

Can everyone DPS? Sure

Doesent mater if everyone can do ALL the rolls at any giving time. The fact remains there IS still a Trinity because there all present in GW2.

NO NO NO lol you people make me furious lol

You can't say "dedicated roles aside" because the concept of dedicated roles versus non-dedicated (free form/fluid whatver) is what this is ALL about.

I sure can say it. Your saying its dead. doesent exist in GW2. ALL those rolls are present in GW2. There for its NOT dead.

 

Doesent mater if JOE started out the fight dpsing then had to heal KATE then started contol on MOB C then went back to DPS.

 

At this point in the discussion it doesent mater anymore. Im not here to make you believe my point of view on the subject. Was just stating my views on the subject. Might as well start a dicussion on whos religion is the best.

Okay, you can try to define "holy trinity" to mean that healing, damage mitigation, and damage exist, but that is a bad idea.  It makes the term completely worthless because EVERY, yes EVERY MMO that involves combat has those concepts.  Even UO!  Heck, even several fighting games, FPS's and RTS's have those roles.

Second, the definition of holy trinity meaning there are classes that are more or less dedicated to the trinity roles in combat is pretty much the accepted definition.  If you don't believe me...check out these sites:

http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/132607/rethinking_the_trinity_of_mmo_.php?print=1

http://keithengel.hubpages.com/hub/Cause-of-MMO-Stagnation-The-Holy-Trinity-of-the-MMO

http://www.mmorpg.com/showFeature.cfm/loadFeature/5557

http://surlygamer.net/2012/04/22/mmo-evolution-life-after-the-holy-trinity/

http://www.gamebreaker.tv/mmorpg/holy-trinity-outdated/

When you try to redefine to redefine the holy trinity to mean that damage, healing, and mitigation simply exist, then you are not only rendering the term useless, you are also going against the definition that just about everyone else uses for no real reason other than to prove that you're right or something.

Also...there is already a term for the thing in games that involves damage, mitigation, and healing...it's called combat.

No it breaks it down to its smile core elements. Lets look at it this way. Dr tells a guys that if he does not stop eating a Mc Donalds he will die. So he stops eating cheap burgers and fries and all the sugar from pop. So he heads down to a high classes restaurant and skips the food the Dr said is killing him and now eats nothing but fine dining. He dies 3 years later. Why? Because it was not  cheap burgers and fries but the food he ate had the same fat content. 

GW2 may not be WoWs cheap burgers and fries but is still made up of meat and potatoes. Differently proportioned but still the same stuff. If ANet had removed healing I could agree with you. Same with tanking. But the same game mechanics are there, tanking, healing and DPS. Other problem is the classes are not even equal at the same roles. So guild min maxing is going to take place. No longer will they say we need someone to till x,y,z role. They will say what classes can fill them best. Now everyone is healing but we also want a Guardian to be there for that extra boost. Everyone takes turns tanking but we want X class to be there for when he enrages.

I have been reading the top end guilds forums and they have been testing this out and it works. The trinity is not dead, its just dressed differently. And people will be demanding X class for WvW to play y role more oten then its other 3 it can do. 

Your analogy makes no sense.

I award you no points.

And may god have mercy on your soul :).

Billy Madison aside....you do realize none of your "tanking" scenarios will work because YOU CAN'T CONTROL AGGRO.  Even if you make a spec that has the best damage mitigation possible, it seriously won't matter when the mob kills your squishyy elementalist who delibaritely specced glass cannon so he could be "DPS" because you couldn't peel the mob off of him.

Yes you can spec to have more control, yes you can spec to have more DPS or support...but this does NOT make GW2 a trinity game.  Trinity means something VERY SPECIFIC.  You have to have a tank controlling aggro, DPS doing most of the damage, and a healer keeping the tank up and saving DPS if they get aggro.  If you don't have that, it's not a holy trinity game...that simple.

Who care if there is no aggro control. I never said there was a dedicated tank. Everyone takes turns tanking, so tanking is still in the game. Everyone heals, so healing is still in the game. ANet would need to 1. remove healing or tanking all together for there to be no trinity. or 2 all classes do all the rolls equally and they dont. Trinity is not dead.

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Originally posted by BadSpock

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Originally posted by Nanfoodle I love this game dont get me wrong but the trinity is far from dead in GW2. Its jusy dressed differently. Everyone take turn tanking, healing and DPSing. All 3 roles are there!!!! Dont be fooled. Its just dressed up in a new package and way more fun then LFG.

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Last time I'll explain this lol

If everyone is doing all 3 roles at different times throughout the course of a single fight - which they do in GW2 - then there are no "dedicated" roles - which means with no dedicated roles - there is no trinity as trinity = dedicated party roles of tank, heal, dps.

*sigh*

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/owned