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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » GW2 needs one thing to make WvW as fun and as rewarding as DAoC's

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188 posts found
  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4186

7/28/12 10:59:31 AM#101
Originally posted by otacu
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by otacu

 

 

That's because you're stuck into VERTICAL rpg progression.... GW2 is about HORIZONTAL rpg progression.

It's not bad design. It's actually a VERY good design. Great choice by Arenanet.

So please explain to me how leveling from 1-80 instantly to participate in WvWvW is HORIZONTAL progression?

 

Good Lord i even have to explain such a simple thing. Leaderboards, rare skins, guild pride to conquer castles, achivements, titles ecc.

 

I guess you better go back to a vertical progression mmorpg because it's obviously not the game for you.

Don't worry i will gladly take over your  queue slot in WvWvW

 

None of what you described is related to insta-leveling from 1-80.  Not one single thing, so maybe you should rethink your argument and get back to me.

 

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  hikaru77

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/28/07
Posts: 989

7/28/12 11:01:02 AM#102
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by otinanai123

I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.

Don't play it then, simple solution.

The arrogance of the fanboys will kill gw2, ¨dont play then¨, have fun playing in an empty WvWvW zone after a week, even worse after the 1st month, And believe me if Anet dont change anything it will happen, any DAOC and WAR veteran can tell you that. 

How is that arrogance? you are on here saying you don't like it and we all have to read you bitching about a game you won't even play. Calling yourself a veteran of rvr is arrogance though. i have played war and the pvp ranks caused so much imbalance that it was impossible to kill the players who were ranked higher. It was all about gear and equipment and not about skill.

I have the game, played the 3 BW, and im a War Veteran. GW2 WvWvW is a copy and paste of warhammer RvR system, and it have the same problems that warhammer have at launch, so we know whats gonna happen with the game if Anet dont change anything, is even worse when you dont even have a war campaing and without enough people, WvWvW in gw2 will be Doorwars 2.0. And even when people here keep talking about ¨we dont care about gear of a PvP rank progression¨ in the real MMO world 90% of the players want some kind of progression in PvP, however in a e-sport game is not like that, and GW2 is pretty much and e-sport game where the WvWvW system is just a casual addition.

  AIMonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

7/28/12 11:01:31 AM#103
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by gravesworn
Putting ranks and leader boards in cant hurt. If someone wants to play 15 hours a day then good for them. Give them rank of High Warlord or Grand Puma. If you arent giving them op gear i see no harm in it.

who says there aren't pvp titles, have you played the released version of the game?

There are titles for earning the end tier of most achievements in the game.  I'd assume there are plenty of WvWvW titles.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

7/28/12 11:03:04 AM#104
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by gravesworn
Putting ranks and leader boards in cant hurt. If someone wants to play 15 hours a day then good for them. Give them rank of High Warlord or Grand Puma. If you arent giving them op gear i see no harm in it.

who says there aren't pvp titles, have you played the released version of the game?

Lol i thought those where already in. Or said to be going in.

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  sinloi

Novice Member

Joined: 4/10/03
Posts: 191

7/28/12 11:03:25 AM#105

still like my idea of top WvW guilds on each server getting special emblems.

 

  AIMonster

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/31/08
Posts: 2021

7/28/12 11:05:23 AM#106
Originally posted by hikaru77

I have the game, played the 3 BW, and im a War Veteran. GW2 WvWvW is a copy and paste of warhammer RvR system, and it have the same problems that warhammer have at launch, so we know whats gonna happen with the game if Anet dont change anything, is even worse when you dont even have a war campaing and without enough people, WvWvW in gw2 will be Doorwars 2.0. And even when people here keep talking about ¨we dont care about gear of a PvP rank progression¨ in the real MMO world 90% of the players want some kind of progression in PvP, however in a e-sport game is not like that, and GW2 is pretty much and e-sport game where the WvWvW system is just a casual addition.

You can attack any part of the Keep not just the Gate.  Sometimes the Gate just isn't the best option.  It's far from Doorwars 2.0, just because people haven't adapted to attacking off other points and using diversion tactics yet, doesn't make that statement true.

Having played lots of Warhammer Online myself, I fail to see how GW2 is a copy and paste of Warhammer's RvR system.  They are so fundamentally different.

Raptr link because it's the cool new trend:

  Sinsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/13/07
Posts: 221

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.-Benjamin Franklin

7/28/12 11:07:27 AM#107

 I voted ,No, why?

First let me say  I was the worlds first lvl 50(Ranger Sneakshot-MLF server ) hit it in under 2 weeks after release before first major patch/nerfs. I was also the first RR2-5 player. 

With that said I played DAoC during beta and into release for 4 years(this includes beta time), and I can say without a doubt, I played RvR because I enjoyed it NOT because I got realm abilities/ranks. I loved the fact that "The Best Gear"(Until ToA) was easily accessable from crafters and you could get right out there and start RvRing. I quit shortly after the PvE gear grind from ToA was introduced(like a vast number of players)

People also seem to forget RR's created elitism and constant fights among members of their own realms themselves as people would whine and cry if you attacked an opposing  realm member that they were fighting as it cut down on their RP gain. People running 8 mans with a requirement of RR 6-8 ONLY leaving those who wanted to join into the fun to run out and get facerolled by multiple groups.

Attacking relic keeps was near impossible at time because the kiddies were more interested in "Fight Club"(for thos who don't know they would organize groups of players from all three realms to duel each other for max realm points or kill trade for them. Mythic even took messures to try and stop this)

Or elitist 8 mans would run off and get rolled(not all the timne I've seen 8 mans take out 3-4 groups) by the other relams zerg because they wanted more relam points.

 

TLDR; In short people wouldn't work together, primarily elitist 8 mans, for major objectives because of RR/RP as it was more important to maximize your RP gain and you couldn't do that with other realm members near as they might "steal" your kill.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

7/28/12 11:11:27 AM#108
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by Istavaan
Originally posted by hikaru77
Originally posted by otinanai123

I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

This, even when the gw2 fanboys keep talking about ¨play just for fun¨, if you have no played DAOC or WAR you pretty much know nothing about RvR and PvP. WvWvW just for fun, dont work, without progression at some point people will get bored pretty fast.

Don't play it then, simple solution.

The arrogance of the fanboys will kill gw2, ¨dont play then¨, have fun playing in an empty WvWvW zone after a week, even worse after the 1st month, And believe me if Anet dont change anything it will happen, any DAOC and WAR veteran can tell you that. 

How is that arrogance? you are on here saying you don't like it and we all have to read you bitching about a game you won't even play. Calling yourself a veteran of rvr is arrogance though. i have played war and the pvp ranks caused so much imbalance that it was impossible to kill the players who were ranked higher. It was all about gear and equipment and not about skill.

I have the game, played the 3 BW, and im a War Veteran. GW2 WvWvW is a copy and paste of warhammer RvR system, and it have the same problems that warhammer have at launch, so we know whats gonna happen with the game if Anet dont change anything, is even worse when you dont even have a war campaing and without enough people, WvWvW in gw2 will be Doorwars 2.0. And even when people here keep talking about ¨we dont care about gear of a PvP rank progression¨ in the real MMO world 90% of the players want some kind of progression in PvP, however in a e-sport game is not like that, and GW2 is pretty much and e-sport game where the WvWvW system is just a casual addition.

War got it wrong because you wanted enemies to capture points so you could capture them back..people would let the enemy capture as it was a more efficent way of gaining renown. In guild wars 2 it is more profitable to hold onto the points and not lose them. see how both are completely different?.

  RizelStar

Novice Member

Joined: 8/12/11
Posts: 2823

We all breathe and we all die.

7/28/12 11:16:00 AM#109

Was up with all these 90% of the people or 95%+ people want this, when we all don't know shit about the the actual percentage lol.

I'm 100% sure about that...or am I?

I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.

I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.

P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)

Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.

  Siphaed

Elite Member

Joined: 1/17/08
Posts: 790

7/28/12 11:26:39 AM#110
Originally posted by Zylaxx

Realm Ranks or some sort of post level cap character advancement.  Even though its not about gear, thats pretty much all we have to work for (even if is only Aesthetic in value.  Well that and fun, which I'm sure will have oodles of but GW2 would do wonders to copy (or in ANets infinite wisdom, innovate) some of the most important aspects that made RvR so much enjoyable in DAoC.

 

 

Why?  I mean, there already is a post-level cap character advancement system that allows for people to gain Skill Points after hitting level 80.    That's obtainable in both PvE and PvP, giving player choice of that advancement. 

 

 But the WvWvW already has a reward system in play for it.   There's the Orb of Power system that gives your World a boost of power just by controlling an Orb in the Boarderlands.  Also there's also the buff system where you and everyone in your World get Boon-like benifits from holding onto  Keeps and such to be gaining more points.  The more point control you have, the more benifits gained. 

 

The reason that buff system is so great unlike "realm ranks" or "post cap progression" is that if your World sucks, you gain almost nothign or little at all.  But, for post-cap progression, that's permanent and stays whether you suck or not, sucking just takes longer to obtain.  With this system...well, as I mentioned, it rewards the strong and not the weak.

  Gabiru

Novice Member

Joined: 1/21/05
Posts: 56

7/28/12 11:26:55 AM#111

you get Server wide buffs for the points you have in WvWvW, buffs that are really usefull.

There are WvWvW armors, you get them with Badges, which drop from players. drop rate isnt that high, so that only should keep ppl busy for a while, and then and finally, since the servers are going to be matched for balance, you wont be able to just own the other guys, which means FUN   :D

 

in the begining its going to be just a zerk, but with time ppl will get organized and shiet.

  Sarethor

Novice Member

Joined: 10/02/07
Posts: 41

7/28/12 11:29:47 AM#112
Originally posted by peebee929

I voted ,No, why?

First let me say  I was the worlds first lvl 50(Ranger Sneakshot-MLF server ) hit it in under 2 weeks after release before first major patch/nerfs. I was also the first RR2-5 player. 

With that said I played DAoC during beta and into release for 4 years(this includes beta time), and I can say without a doubt, I played RvR because I enjoyed it NOT because I got realm abilities/ranks. I loved the fact that "The Best Gear"(Until ToA) was easily accessable from crafters and you could get right out there and start RvRing. I quit shortly after the PvE gear grind from ToA was introduced(like a vast number of players)

People also seem to forget RR's created elitism and constant fights among members of their own realms themselves as people would whine and cry if you attacked an opposing  realm member that they were fighting as it cut down on their RP gain. People running 8 mans with a requirement of RR 6-8 ONLY leaving those who wanted to join into the fun to run out and get facerolled by multiple groups.

Attacking relic keeps was near impossible at time because the kiddies were more interested in "Fight Club"(for thos who don't know they would organize groups of players from all three realms to duel each other for max realm points or kill trade for them. Mythic even took messures to try and stop this)

Or elitist 8 mans would run off and get rolled(not all the timne I've seen 8 mans take out 3-4 groups) by the other relams zerg because they wanted more relam points.

 

TLDR; In short people wouldn't work together, primarily elitist 8 mans, for major objectives because of RR/RP as it was more important to maximize your RP gain and you couldn't do that with other realm members near as they might "steal" your kill.

_____

I agree with most of your points.  I got lucky in that most of Alb-Merlin wasn't really elitist - ironically, the best RvR guild was mostly comprised of people who were very mature, irrespective of their age.  Sure, everyone wanted to play well and win but I carved myself a spot as a bash-bot in a regular roaming 8 man at RR3 and the majority of them were RR8+.  

It's important for everyone to try to find those who align with their approach to gaming and interpersonal relationship.  7 years of WoW (and all the drama) did nothing but reinforce that for me.

Unfortunately, we're still going to have the immature kiddies in GW2, irrespective of our having some metric to define our WvW experience/success.  Minus that, their clique admission criteria will just be something like "using racial slurs every 5th word" or something. :)    They'll figure out how to make themselves think they're better than everyone else and don't need any help from the game to do so.

 

The internet is an amazing platform for some people to showcase their deficiencies as a person.

Regards,
Sarethor

  The_ember

Novice Member

Joined: 7/04/08
Posts: 50

7/28/12 11:32:31 AM#113

I think alot of people are underestimating how much motivation 7.5mill glory gear can offer.

 

Seriously, I've been chatting to quite a few of my PvP playing friends recently, and they are all psyched about the push for the top-end (purely cosmetic) gear. They're also really looking forward to the fact that they'll all be on a level playing field in PvP aswell - meaning the top end glory-gear really IS going to be a "time put in" or "player skill" thing.

Cosmetic gear is a great motivator as long as it sufficiently differentiates you from everyone else. 

  gravesworn

Novice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 325

7/28/12 11:38:07 AM#114
No i havent. Only beta. As like you i have not played the release so i cant so either way.
  Derpybird

Novice Member

Joined: 4/02/12
Posts: 1006

7/28/12 11:38:23 AM#115
  • We know nothing of the content post level 35.
  • We haven't seen what impact later meta-events will have on the world.
  • We have heard about Orr but have not seen it.
  • We have heard about epic weapons but have no idea of the amount of time and effort it will take to acquire them
  • We haven't see how WvWvW evolves over time as players get better, strategies are developed, guilds really come into their own, and servers get matched against equal servers
  • We have seen one dungeon.
  • We have seen, what, 3 out of a supposed 30 in-game activities? I spent I don't know how many hours in keg brawl just because it was fun.
  • We have no idea if or how ANet's post launch development team will keep folks entertained, be it through shifting content, large-scale content, or what.

I'm sure that I've missed some things, but I'm amazed at the number of people predicting doom and gloom because ANet isn't doing something that they want, or including a feature from another game. Just yesterday the game was "broken" because of the downed-state mechanic, today it's "broken" because there's no "personal progression".

We see people saying that GW2 will hold our attention for one month before people scurry back to WoW etc., forgetting that ANet wants to sell us expansions and yes, hats and sunglasses and boxes of fun from the cash shop, over time. So maybe they have plans to keep us involved.

And we see people, on multiple threads, saying that they played the game and how bad it is, who feel the need to keep reminding us that they think it's bad or has "gamebreaking" problems. Not sure what their agenda is but whatever.

Maybe ANet has some smart people working for it that know what they're doing?

 

"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.

  otinanai123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 272

7/28/12 11:42:27 AM#116

Every time I played WvW i really wanted to get that old DAoC RvR feel but instead it gave me the southshore vs tarren mill feel. Guess which one people played for 11 years and which one people got bored with in 1 month. Personal progression is a MUST. It doesn't have to be as overpowered as realm ranks are (maybe smaller passive +stats bonuses per rank?) but it needs to exist or else WvW will be a wasteland 1 month after launch when the casuals go back to WoW.

  Istavaan

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/25/12
Posts: 1398

7/28/12 11:46:08 AM#117
Originally posted by otinanai123

Every time I played WvW i really wanted to get that old DAoC RvR feel but instead it gave me the southshore vs tarren mill feel. Guess which one people played for 11 years and which one people got bored with in 1 month. Personal progression is a MUST. It doesn't have to be as overpowered as realm ranks are (maybe smaller passive +stats bonuses per rank?) but it needs to exist or else WvW will be a wasteland 1 month after launch when the casuals go back to WoW.

Nobody knows anything about the game post level 35 so i think you are judging the game too early.

  otacu

Novice Member

Joined: 4/08/12
Posts: 552

7/28/12 11:48:51 AM#118
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by otacu
Originally posted by Slapshot1188
Originally posted by otacu

 

 

That's because you're stuck into VERTICAL rpg progression.... GW2 is about HORIZONTAL rpg progression.

It's not bad design. It's actually a VERY good design. Great choice by Arenanet.

So please explain to me how leveling from 1-80 instantly to participate in WvWvW is HORIZONTAL progression?

 

Good Lord i even have to explain such a simple thing. Leaderboards, rare skins, guild pride to conquer castles, achivements, titles ecc.

 

I guess you better go back to a vertical progression mmorpg because it's obviously not the game for you.

Don't worry i will gladly take over your  queue slot in WvWvW

 

None of what you described is related to insta-leveling from 1-80.  Not one single thing, so maybe you should rethink your argument and get back to me.

 

oh ho! You have a problem with insta-leveling to 80?

God forbids! people are having fun in pvp before grinding to max level! Blasphemy!

 

Originally posted by otinanai123

Every time I played WvW i really wanted to get that old DAoC RvR feel but instead it gave me the southshore vs tarren mill feel. Guess which one people played for 11 years and which one people got bored with in 1 month. Personal progression is a MUST. It doesn't have to be as overpowered as realm ranks are (maybe smaller passive +stats bonuses per rank?) but it needs to exist or else WvW will be a wasteland 1 month after launch when the casuals go back to WoW.

 

See you back 28th September to see who making things up talking like he was some kind of wise prophet.

 

 

 

  petespriton

Novice Member

Joined: 7/27/12
Posts: 22

7/28/12 11:49:37 AM#119

Because you cant see your opponent's names in WvW and sPvP, I'd love to see some sort of indication that you are facing someone "notorious".

  aesperus

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4785

7/28/12 11:51:51 AM#120
Originally posted by otinanai123

Every time I played WvW i really wanted to get that old DAoC RvR feel but instead it gave me the southshore vs tarren mill feel. Guess which one people played for 11 years and which one people got bored with in 1 month. Personal progression is a MUST. It doesn't have to be as overpowered as realm ranks are (maybe smaller passive +stats bonuses per rank?) but it needs to exist or else WvW will be a wasteland 1 month after launch when the casuals go back to WoW.

Er...

You do realize the game has multiple layers of progression, without having RRs. Right?

The game really doesn't need a gear grind, it's kind of amazing that people still refuse to accept this. WAR had RR, and look what that did for it? Instead of the 'epicness' of DAoC's RvR, we basically had base trading on a massive scale.

In WvW there are enough incentives to not only keep people playing for a while, but also for people to hold on to the keeps they already have.

Not sure which server you were playing on, but I can suggest a few that may give you a better experience (not sure if they will change on launch, though, unfortunately). I know of at least 4 servers that had really good WvW, and not once during that time did I see anyone complaining about loot, a lack of a geargrind, or wanted more progression.

I know the game has lvls, but it's still a game focused around horizontal progression. May be a strange concept, but WvW (to a lot of people) is much more about the zone, than it is about you as a character. Different mindset, completely different type of reward.

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