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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Grouping Elitism already ?

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93 posts found
  lifeordinary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 691

7/28/12 9:49:35 AM#41

When end game revolves around purple loot grind this is bound to happen. One has to just sit in Agartha for gew minutes and read chat. People are being jerks and really rude.

Most of the groups won't even invite you till you let them inspect your gear and tell them your stats. And if you are in green stuff..god luck.

  DMKano

Elite Member

Joined: 6/17/11
Posts: 6393

7/28/12 10:11:14 AM#42
Originally posted by lifeordinary

When end game revolves around purple loot grind this is bound to happen. One has to just sit in Agartha for gew minutes and read chat. People are being jerks and really rude.

Most of the groups won't even invite you till you let them inspect your gear and tell them your stats. And if you are in green stuff..god luck.

 

"most of the groups" - total bullshit. Minority of the groups. If you are doing nightmare dungeons yes - those are not doable in greens. But then again nightmare dungeons - less then 5% of the playerbase meets the reqs to be even be eligible to enter one.
  crysent

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 847

7/28/12 10:17:14 AM#43
Originally posted by sycofiend

So I have been having a blast with TSW, despite the detractors but have mainly been playing it as a solo game, with occasional team ups for world quests, in which I have found random people to be very friendly and almost always willing to help.

The chat channels, have also been atypically friendly. Requests for help, generally met with positive responses.

Now I do have plans to get into groups, and try PVP, but first i was toying around farming AP and trying the first rings of different weapons to get an idea of what I wanted to stick with.

SO the point of this, I was going to look for some group action , when I noticed that LFG was being spammed with people looking for SPEED GROUPS 6/6 Experienced & geared only , must know fights inside and out ..etc..

This made me step back,  this was the kind of annoying crap that I remembered from the end of my WoW days. People so elitist they wouldnt even group with you unless you totally out-geared the instance already. And had shit-fits for any misstep, and usually even blamed thier own mistakes on other people.

Now I am using AR healing builds and want to try the healing role, but I would like to group for fun and learn the ropes a bit since I have no experience healing in TSW,  but none of the groups seemed friendly enough for me to want to try.

 

So,  so far my experience with the community has been good, but this kinda put me off a bit, so I am curious, what have your group experiences in TSW been like ?

 

Thanks !

 

Yes, I have noticed this also...It is likely the reason I won't be subscribing to this game.  I had a lot of fun throughout the first month but now at end game and just being a casual player myself (i work a ton) I am usually unable to find groups for dungeon runs because my gear isn't elite enough or I don't have the required knowledge.

I have never understood the mentality of the power gamers, the one's who only join groups if there is absolute certainitly they can do the dungeon in one single run, no mistakes...

I've never understood where these elite groupers come from, if they don't have families or jobs?  I dunno, but yea, it sucks.

  Morgaren

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 395

For me, the gates will open.

7/28/12 10:23:55 AM#44

This happens in every game, content locust, I hate them. They come to the game, get everything done in a few weeks, ignore all the side stuff, get straight to the end and get the best gear as fast as possible, then complain that there is nothing to do. Kinda like a fat kid who eats a dozen donuts then complains he is hungry.

 

Sometimes the devs will listen to their cries that it was too easy, that can cause a huge blow to the playerbase of a game, those elite types are a very vocal minority. http://morgaren.hubpages.com/hub/World-of-Warcraft-How-WoW-Learned-What-Casual-Gamers-Want I talk about how elitist gamers can change a game in this article and the link in my sig is about content locust. Nest thing you can do is ignore them. Also send feedback to the company if you are happy with the game, cause if all they hear is bad comments, they will start changing stuff.

  Ozimandeus

Novice Member

Joined: 2/11/06
Posts: 80

7/28/12 10:26:52 AM#45

Don't blame the players, blame the game dynamic.. good social games should promote casual grouping and not reward 'geared' groups. Sadly this shows the hole in the secret world.. its still the same old game dynamic mixed well.

Guild Wars 2, thankfully addresses these issues, TSW is not the MMORPG you were looking for.

  Morgaren

Novice Member

Joined: 3/04/09
Posts: 395

For me, the gates will open.

7/28/12 10:33:10 AM#46
Originally posted by Ozimandeus

Don't blame the players, blame the game dynamic.. good social games should promote casual grouping and not reward 'geared' groups. Sadly this shows the hole in the secret world.. its still the same old game dynamic mixed well.

Guild Wars 2, thankfully addresses these issues, TSW is not the MMORPG you were looking for.

No, requesting speed groups this early in the game is a sign of locust. Even in GW2 after a few weeks you will have people at max level doing whatever special thing max level players can do. It's the people, you can't blame a game for being a game. Use my donut analogy above, can you blame the donuts for being a sweet bread? No, it's the fat kids fault for gorging.  To push it further, after he is done eating and wants more he refusees to waste his time with people who don't want to go find more donuts, and even if they do if they are not ready right now, he doesn't want to thelp them get ready.

 

It's the players, they want to push progression, and only want to play with people who want to push progression. They don't want to help the community, they want to feel superior to it. Which is completely laughable to someone like me honestly.

  SpottyGekko

Elite Member

Joined: 9/26/04
Posts: 3169

7/28/12 10:37:59 AM#47
Originally posted by lifeordinary

When end game revolves around purple loot grind this is bound to happen. One has to just sit in Agartha for gew minutes and read chat. People are being jerks and really rude.

Most of the groups won't even invite you till you let them inspect your gear and tell them your stats. And if you are in green stuff..god luck.

There's absolutely no reason why you can't start your own group. If you're going to let other players dictate how you play the game, then you must accept their terms. 

 

Every MMO I've ever played has had it's "elite" groups, guilds, etc.. Those are the alpha players, but they are always a small section of the community. They usually put in more time and effort than casual players, so their playstyle earns them the right to demand that you measure up to their "standards" if you want to play with them. I consider that completely fair.

 

But any game is what YOU make of it. If you want to be a passenger, you have to accept wherever the bus goes. But if you're the driver, YOU get to decide where it goes.

 

I'm completely sure that the majority of players are not running around in QL10.3 gear. The average player in QL10 gear is probably wearing a lot of greens. And complaining that they "can't get into groups"...

  lifeordinary

Novice Member

Joined: 7/05/12
Posts: 691

7/28/12 11:09:30 AM#48
Originally posted by DMKano
Originally posted by lifeordinary

When end game revolves around purple loot grind this is bound to happen. One has to just sit in Agartha for gew minutes and read chat. People are being jerks and really rude.

Most of the groups won't even invite you till you let them inspect your gear and tell them your stats. And if you are in green stuff..god luck.

 

"most of the groups" - total bullshit. Minority of the groups. If you are doing nightmare dungeons yes - those are not doable in greens. But then again nightmare dungeons - less then 5% of the playerbase meets the reqs to be even be eligible to enter one.

Learn to read FFS before replying. I am talking about end game i even mentioned in beginning of the post. Which means Nightmare and Elite dungeons.

Also, from where did you pull that 5% from?

  crysent

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/01/05
Posts: 847

7/28/12 11:46:53 AM#49

The problem is a two way street in my opinion.  Having a purple gear grind at the end only appeals to these sort of players.  At the same time there is this group that flocks to every new game and burns through the content in the quickest possible fashion, ignoring evey single aspect of the game except for the most necessary and then dominates end game raids and gear and also complains a lot.

 

It's hard for devs to control this population that seemingly has no life outside of the games and has the amount of time necessary to do this sort of thing.

 

I feel like by 'elite' or 'hardcore' players what we really mean are players with no life outside of the game world, because that is what they essentially are.  They are people that dedicate insane amounts of time to the game in a very short period of time.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4102

7/28/12 12:03:52 PM#50
Originally posted by BadSpock

When you make the content about grinding the content for gear/points - people are going to want to get through it as fast as possible.

Hence why every WoW expansion the dungeon runs got shorter and shorter and easier and easier.

And when they tried to modify that a bit with Cata, go back to more of the "old school" flare, people QQ'd that they took too long and were too difficult...

Bad design = bad design.

Bad design brings out the worst in players.

 

I'm not so sure that this a symptom of bad design but I think you're right that WOW does have something to do with it: you can't get 10,000,000 people playing an MMO and expect that the good community from previous smaller scale MMOs would continue.

 

The fact is that WOW brought a lot of different people to the MMO scene: the real MMO fans, some RPers, some real nice people, many people wondering just what this MMO thing is all about... but even more griefers, trolls and assorted asshats. Some of this later group will try all kinds of new MMOs, zip through content finding the quickets ways to level and run dungeons the same way... "content locust" some people call them.

 

They exists in Rift, SWTOR, Terra... any themepark you care to mention. They will be there in GW2 as well. The good news is that they have short attention spans and hardly ever play more than 1 or 2 months, troll MMO discussion boards and go back to their prescious WOW.

 

It should get noticeably better by month 2 since many of them have maxed out their gear and are getting bored already and won't subscribe.

  hotix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/11
Posts: 140

7/28/12 12:07:24 PM#51

Would you want to group with players that can't get through a dungeon because they can not stand in aoe's and special effects? Or because they can't follow a script? With 16 hour lockouts, and not being able to get people to join because no one wants to miss tokens from bosses the answer is simple. Elitism is needed. I for one have regretted time and time again grouping with people that plain out suck. So before you hop on your soap box take a second and think before you speak.

  Iselin

The Listener

Joined: 3/04/08
Posts: 4102

7/28/12 12:27:07 PM#52
Originally posted by hotix

Would you want to group with players that can't get through a dungeon because they can not stand in aoe's and special effects? Or because they can't follow a script? With 16 hour lockouts, and not being able to get people to join because no one wants to miss tokens from bosses the answer is simple. Elitism is needed. I for one have regretted time and time again grouping with people that plain out suck. So before you hop on your soap box take a second and think before you speak.

Yes i would. I'd much rather group with a normal fellow player-- even if they're not the best and need help, than an obnoxious hyper-achiever ... any time.

 

I'd be happy to teach the 1st guy whatever I can to help him but would not even want to talk to #2.

  hotix

Novice Member

Joined: 1/06/11
Posts: 140

7/28/12 12:31:59 PM#53

It's easy to say that now but after being in a dungeon that should have taken 1 hour to clear, "NM Polaris" and failing on the 3rd boss for 3 hours then your opinion would change i'm sure. Most people here have been gaming for a long time and it does get rather annoying playing with people who have been carried for years. My character is in all 10.2-10.1 gear, and 1 10.3 wep. The fact is that without a static group, or group of competent players this is not possible in TSW. Hence the barriers to access.

  Khaeros

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/11
Posts: 463

7/28/12 12:34:27 PM#54
Originally posted by Iselin

I'd be happy to teach the 1st guy whatever I can to help him but would not even want to talk to #2.

 

That works well and all, but the problem comes into play when the 1st guy doesn't accept help.

 

Instead, they think their super speshul snowflake build is good because it works.

 

Already detailed this subject extensively.  Take a read.  Lockouts mean that every first guy who refuses to listen to advice (because they think providing advice, DESPITE BEING ONE OF THE TOP PLAYERS IN THE WORLD, is an attack on them) wastes our time.

  Silverbranch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/31/10
Posts: 190

Wherever you go, there you are.

7/28/12 6:23:15 PM#55
Originally posted by hotix

It's easy to say that now but after being in a dungeon that should have taken 1 hour to clear, "NM Polaris" and failing on the 3rd boss for 3 hours then your opinion would change i'm sure. Most people here have been gaming for a long time and it does get rather annoying playing with people who have been carried for years. My character is in all 10.2-10.1 gear, and 1 10.3 wep. The fact is that without a static group, or group of competent players this is not possible in TSW. Hence the barriers to access.

In my experience the "leet" who run around in "top end gear", and who know how to "speed clear", are often times terrible players with lousy situational awareness, lack of mental agility and flexibility, lousy team-mate awareness, and abysmal team-play ability.

They are however very good at mechanically running through obstacles they've pre-mapped out against a spoiler driven recipe book of copied skill templates and strats.

Bleh.  Not particularly impressed all you "leets". lol.

I've seen it countless times over the past five years or so, the spoiler-driven gear-supported face-first farm it runs where the challenges aren't beaten by skill or team work really, but steamrolled by virture of gearage and frantic button mashing.

MMOs need to get away from material rewards of such magnitude the actual GAMING required to get to them is simply a spoiler fest populated by "leet" button monkies.

/shrug

Wherever you go, there you are.

  ThemePork

Novice Member

Joined: 11/29/11
Posts: 317

Pork, it's like beef but not quite.

7/28/12 6:33:31 PM#56

Generally speaking people LF "geared and experienced" players should be avoided like the plague. They are always either complete idiots, rude, ninja looters, impatient, arrogant or any combination of the above.

You can safely put these guys on your ignore list, they're only a small minority and your gaming won't suffer at all from it.

If it's raids we're talking about, it's a different story. Doing a totally random PUG raid almost always ends in a complete catastrophe so I understand people asking for experienced players.

TSW however doesn't have raids yet, only 5 man dungeons and if people don't have the patience to explain a boss mechanic or two during the run then they have issues.

  Opapanax

Novice Member

Joined: 10/29/11
Posts: 983

Most Morbid One

7/28/12 6:50:39 PM#57
Originally posted by Charas

Generally speaking people LF "geared and experienced" players should be avoided like the plague. They are always either complete idiots, rude, ninja looters, impatient, arrogant or any combination of the above.

You can safely put these guys on your ignore list, they're only a small minority and your gaming won't suffer at all from it.

If it's raids we're talking about, it's a different story. Doing a totally random PUG raid almost always ends in a complete catastrophe so I understand people asking for experienced players.

TSW however doesn't have raids yet, only 5 man dungeons and if people don't have the patience to explain a boss mechanic or two during the run then they have issues.

I agree there are times where a cretain bit of organization is needed. (i.e raids). I'm like many others that have stated..

Just play the game, ignore those folks. It's too easy to find others to play with, spamming LFG and saying (newbies welcome) is a good way to get people to join you. If they know from jump that they aren't going to be hounded about gear and whatnot...

As long as the group is competent thats all that matters to me, if somene is lacking you see if you can help them improve. Most times if you are respectful with dealing with people they will be rather receptive of your critiques when trying to help them..

PM before you report at least or you could just block.

  Lazarus71

Old School

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 991

I play the games I like and don't dwell on the ones I don't, complicated philosophy I know....

7/28/12 6:59:02 PM#58

I play games to have fun, I have a job and RL for stress. Therefore the last thing I need when playing an MMO is to group with people who take the game waaaaay to seriously. If that's your thing fine, but it's not mine.

No signature, I don't have a pen

  PinkMelody

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/23/09
Posts: 11

7/28/12 7:04:15 PM#59

I have seen a few posts like that in TSW but not too many, and also if you are in a good cabal then you shouldnt have to worry about that :) if that gets you down you should consider getting into 1 if not already my cabal is very friendly and helpful always gearing people out  for elite and NM's no matter what gear you have!

  MisatoTremor

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/10/03
Posts: 69

7/28/12 7:36:44 PM#60

People like that seem to become (or even already are) the majority in MMOs and they are also very vocal. But there are in fact others.

Explorers, teachers and such that are willing to help people and / or to explore new things and fights (and mechanics thereof). Just ask for them (and ignore those that jump in and call you names on that) in chat and when you found a suitable group try to stick with them. :-)

Misato - TankDoc for Life

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