Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by Tardcore

Originally posted by Thane

Originally posted by otinanai123

I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

 

anyway, RR in GW2:

in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

A-net certainly seems to be banking on said "item whores" judging by all the frivolous crap in the cash shop.

I think the items whore is refering to those who is all about powerprogression through getting better gear.

And we can stop the thread here, because this is something that ArenaNet is strictly against and that most of the fanbase admires them for. So if anyone want powerprogression through gear, go play another game , there is plenty of them. GW2 is not going to be one of them. And please stop asking the game for make changes that is fundemental against anything the compagny behind it stands for.

Right, and he stated that since GW2's progression is not gear centric the rewards would only be cosmetic and then implied that such cosmetic items would not have any motivational value to GW2 players. Which I found ironic as the company making the game is selling pointless cosmetic items in its cash shop FOR REAL MONEY. So if they expect their player base to shell out real cash for cosmetic items, I'd be willing to bet people would be motivated to WvW for them as well.

Which by the way is what the OP was asking for and not "epic phat loots". Next time you decide to come in and act like the chat police it might behoove you to have some idea of WTF people are talking about before telling them what they can and can't discuss.

touche- i stand corrected. I missed on OPs post- and apologize for that.

Originally posted by William12

the #1 reason I believe GW2 will not be as sucessful as it could be is character progresion. 

I love the combat and the story and think the game is awesome so you fanboys don't flame me.

With that said.   Only a minority are motivated by cosmetic items and story or gameplay itself.  ONCE you're max level and have played it over and over you need a motivation beyond that something to make your time invested into your character worth it.

No gear grind the fanboys say omg this game is great no more gear grinds and I do understand it , but maority yes MAJORITY of people are motivated by the gear grind the problem is past games made that grind SOOOO boring because the gameplay was boring.  GW2 combat is fun and interesting a gear grind in GW2 would not of been as boring for most people because of this.   

The only plus is you can buy the game and play the story and have fun and not be tied to a monthly fee or feel obligated to keep playing because you're paying 15$ a month which will also hurt the playerbase.

 

Before one of the fanboys comes in and says they will play for the fun of it.  How long can you do something over and over every day every week before it is no longer fun  ?  People are human nothing remains fun for that long.  The truth is WvWvW is a zerg fest and if you have played any beta weekends you would know this.

I agree with what you're saying. Although I love GW2 I don't think it will be as long-term successful as many are hoping simply because the lack of major progression will be a turn off point for alot of people. That being said, they could very well shift alot of copies right off the bat, and if the product/story is strong they could continue to shift expansion copies (for those who have completed the content and are not playing until more arrives). It will be extremely interesting to see how it all pans out.

Anyway slightly distracted, the one point you made I take issue with is the underlined one, I've played all 3 BWE's now with around 10 or 11 people from my guild and we spent almost all of them in WvW capping tower points and disrupting supply lines. Whilst most of the keeps will be zerg focused, it's extremely easy to disrupt and stop their rampage by simply cutting off the resource points. Perhaps more than most open-world (easiest comparison to WvW here) mmo's I've played, small groups are very strong in GW2 if they communicate and move well. 

Originally posted by Svarcanum
Maybe there was a reason millions didn't play back then, huh?

Pretty much yes. Internet access was utterly expensive while also slow, and also not as easy as today, therefore all those online games were pretty much niche games even in 2000. Then, in 5 years, we moved to cheaper broadband Internet allowing 24/24 7/7 connections, easier to use, more powerful and cheaper PCs, and even a monkey can plug in a computer and install a game on it.

Originally posted by Svarcanum
Not entirely correct Korrigan. The reason was WoW. Gear grind galore. Easy Internet access was not the reason it was a requirement.

If you say so... :)

It's obvious that WoW indeed provided a quality and polished game just in time for the big Internet rush.

They are global buff already given for your RvsR success. I personally didn't even looked into this but it exist, the global buff are listed in the hero page under pvp tab. And for rank, well i'm pretty sure they will post the result each time or on the GW2 web site, or maybe even in game. I don't know if it can be called a rank system though.

Originally posted by Svarcanum
Not entirely correct Korrigan. The reason was WoW. Gear grind galore. Easy Internet access was not the reason it was a requirement.

He is right on this, go read few things about the development of cable and adsl between those years and the internet boom, wikipedia explain this pretty well.

Internet boom sustained Wow success not the way around, people weren't taking the cable and adsl to play Wow, they played Wow because they had cheap and quick internet.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Thane

Originally posted by otinanai123

I honestly don't see the point of WvWing at 80 if there is no rank system. What we learned from DAoC is that "server pride" motivates very few people. 95%+ of players are motivated by personal progression.

guess you never understood quake then eh? :)

 

anyway, RR in GW2:

in daoc they have been used to buy better armor and stuff with stats and stuff, in GW2 they'd just be to buy gfaphics.,.. you think that would motivate those little item whores? :)

better armor? You're thinking of WAR. In DAoC it got you better/more PvP skills.

Nope. Won't work with the ideology behind GW2. See, the idea is, and many so called "hardcore" gamers dislike it, that playing more doesn't give you in-game advantage. Once you have same level you pretty much have same stats and access to same skill pools within given class. There is nothing that would make you more powerful because you happen to be able to play 12 hours a day versus someone able to only play 2-4 hours a day. 

Ofcourse there will be lsight differences, and people who spend more time will have easier access to the most expensive toys like Siege Golems, but they will still be limited by WvWvW mechanics - like supply as well as smart play - like flanking. 

Any AA, if to trust ANets ideas, should be limited to simply cosmetic rewards. 

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

The DAoC realm abilities is a self explanatory example of why I don't want any of that stuff in GW2. The last thing the game needs is some mechanic that makes elder character more powerful than new characters or alts, when it has managed to avoid that until now.

Yes.. why would we ever want to put the actual RPG progression in our RPG?  It exists in all the other parts of the game EXCEPT for this one.  For most of the game if you are level 10 you will stay level 10.. and adventure in a level 10 area.  For this part of the game it's POOF now you are level 80!!!

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

The DAoC realm abilities is a self explanatory example of why I don't want any of that stuff in GW2. The last thing the game needs is some mechanic that makes elder character more powerful than new characters or alts, when it has managed to avoid that until now.

Yes.. why would we ever want to put the actual RPG progression in our RPG?  It exists in all the other parts of the game EXCEPT for this one.  For most of the game if you are level 10 you will stay level 10.. and adventure in a level 10 area.  For this part of the game it's POOF now you are level 80!!!

 

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

 

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

 

 

My rebutal.....tarren mill before cata.....because I loved trying to level while an 80 rogue stalks me like some screwed up elven reenactment of the most dangerous game.

at it's base level roleplaying means playing a role, it doesnt need to mean a disgaea based level system.

is your role a support engineer healing with potions or being more offensive with a flamethrower.

is your necromancer one who relies heavily on minions, marks or wells?

is your warrior more of a commander inspiring allies with shouts and banners, or is he more the berserker rushing in with an axe and a mace to bust skulls?

and in fact Roleplaying more means that actually playing your character not neccasarilly leveling the charecter. As in personality backstory etc.

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

 

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

 

 

That's exactly the design decision lots of people love about Guild Wars 2 so it is not a bad decision. Making elder players more powerful would be just wrong.

NO.

The less rewards.... the more chances i have to get into WvWvW without queues! :)

Originally posted by sinloi

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 

Yes.. why would we ever want to put the actual RPG progression in our RPG?  It exists in all the other parts of the game EXCEPT for this one.  For most of the game if you are level 10 you will stay level 10.. and adventure in a level 10 area.  For this part of the game it's POOF now you are level 80!!!

 

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

 

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

 

 

 

My rebutal.....tarren mill before cata.....because I loved trying to level while an 80 rogue stalks me like some screwed up elven reenactment of the most dangerous game.

My rebuttal...Tarren Mill was open world... "The Mists" are not, and thus the "optional" point I made.  It would be more akin to DAoC frontiers where you COULD go out to grind your mobs in the frontiers for extra XP, but had the risk of dying to PvP.  You didn't want that risk you could happilly stay in your land and quest/grind all you wanted. 

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

The DAoC realm abilities is a self explanatory example of why I don't want any of that stuff in GW2. The last thing the game needs is some mechanic that makes elder character more powerful than new characters or alts, when it has managed to avoid that until now.

Yes.. why would we ever want to put the actual RPG progression in our RPG?  It exists in all the other parts of the game EXCEPT for this one.  For most of the game if you are level 10 you will stay level 10.. and adventure in a level 10 area.  For this part of the game it's POOF now you are level 80!!!

 

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

 

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

 

 

That's because you're stuck into VERTICAL rpg progression.... GW2 is about HORIZONTAL rpg progression.

It's not bad design. It's actually a VERY good design. Great choice by Arenanet.

Originally posted by seridan

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

 

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

 

 

That's exactly the design decision lots of people love about Guild Wars 2 so it is not a bad decision. Making elder players more powerful would be just wrong.

1. I might dispute that point but for the sake of the thread happilly concede

2. Simply because more people like something (or think they will) does not make something good or bad (queue the requisit 10-15 real world comparisons here)

3. We will find out a few months after launch if it was a good or bad idea when we see how many people are active in WvW.

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Originally posted by sinloi

Originally posted by Slapshot1188

 

Yes.. why would we ever want to put the actual RPG progression in our RPG?  It exists in all the other parts of the game EXCEPT for this one.  For most of the game if you are level 10 you will stay level 10.. and adventure in a level 10 area.  For this part of the game it's POOF now you are level 80!!!

 

It's the one very bad design decision that I have seen.  They actually do not need RAs, they simply need to stop the insta-leveling of characters.  They should actually put some content in for PvE (optional) to entice folks of all levels to head into the mists.  Your own land would have lower level mobs, and would get progressively higher as you moved further out.

 

The problem with WvWvW right now is that it takes the RPG and turns it into an arcade siege warfare simulator.

 

 

 

My rebutal.....tarren mill before cata.....because I loved trying to level while an 80 rogue stalks me like some screwed up elven reenactment of the most dangerous game.

My rebuttal...Tarren Mill was open world... "The Mists" are not, and thus the "optional" point I made.  It would be more akin to DAoC frontiers where you COULD go out to grind your mobs in the frontiers for extra XP, but had the risk of dying to PvP.  You didn't want that risk you could happilly stay in your land and quest/grind all you wanted. 

The reason I brought that up is that due to repair costs and the simple time hassel of death, doing it this way would discourage lowbies from going into the mists rather then encourage. 

The method as it currently stands encourages players of all levels to join the fun.

and best yet the actual level 80s still have an advantage via experience and access to more skills.

if I enter the mists at level 5 I will have my weapon skills and one beginner slot power.

you'll have your elites.

and the problem still remains, to bring up another wow example Honor.

You got honor for beating higher levels, but you lost none for beating up lower levels. what's to stop the high levles from ganking the lowbies and inevitablly driving them away from the mists.

A bad experience at level 5-10 will inevitbally mean they probably wont go back at level 80.

Originally posted by otacu

 

 

That's because you're stuck into VERTICAL rpg progression.... GW2 is about HORIZONTAL rpg progression.

It's not bad design. It's actually a VERY good design. Great choice by Arenanet.

So please explain to me how leveling from 1-80 instantly to participate in WvWvW is HORIZONTAL progression?