While I don't completely favor the current iteration of the downed mechanic in sPvP (I think it is fine in PvE and WvW), I also realized as others have stated that too much is balanced around it to ever remove it. For sPvP I think I'd prefer to see it shortened/reduced a little bit; that it to say, less hps when downed, quicker ability activations, and faster finishing moves. Basically, I would rather see it be a faster process but still remain mostly unchanged otherwise.

I'm personally not a big fan of the downed mechanic, it gives a group too much time to get back up and join the fight. I do like that you can rez anyone, and I think that should stay; but I don't like the idea of self rezzing. If you die, there should be a consequence such as having to run back, or wait for your team to rez you assuming that victory is near.

u haven't been downed by falling damage in the middle of nowhere i assume ugh. at the time i did not know I could self rez by waiting on call for help.

Self rezzing is INSANELY slow.  and can't be done unless you kill something when you are being beaten on. 

and It is crazy slow rezzing someone in combat compared to outside combat and its even slower if that person is completely knocked out.

Downed state itself is pretty fine imo its the classes with ability that allow them to stealth and pop around while in downed state or aoe knockback that is annoying. just because u can not leave a person their to sit and rez themself and it becomes a giant time consumer having to finish the person..

I'm not sure how i feel about it yet. It's still very new to me, sometimes i like it (when I'm able to rally) and other times when i get 3 vs 1'd and have to sit there for 5-10 seconds for them to finish me off i don't like it. I think it brings a new dynamic to pvp, whether thats good or bad ill have to wait and play more.

Originally posted by ItsGopher

I'm personally not a big fan of the downed mechanic, it gives a group too much time to get back up and join the fight. I do like that you can rez anyone, and I think that should stay; but I don't like the idea of self rezzing. If you die, there should be a consequence such as having to run back, or wait for your team to rez you assuming that victory is near.

Originally posted by FearTHeFro

I'm not sure how i feel about it yet. It's still very new to me, sometimes i like it (when I'm able to rally) and other times when i get 3 vs 1'd and have to sit there for 5-10 seconds for them to finish me off i don't like it. I think it brings a new dynamic to pvp, whether thats good or bad ill have to wait and play more.

I seriousely could try harder but this is only one example.

When you die in down state you do have to wait to be rezzed or run back, assuming we talking about GW 2.

SPVP is not solo pvp it's team based. BTW there is no self rezzing.

I'm not trying to convince you guys into liking the system but I swear the statements...

Originally posted by Distopia

 

How many times can you overlook that no one said a competent player can't be beat, what was said was you're going to have a tough go at taking down two competent players at the same time all by yourself.

Can't say I prefer one way or the other, only that the downed state reminds me of SWG's incap/DB system.

It should be tough.

Why on earth should it be easy for a class or player to take out two competent players if they're trying to take them on 2v1?

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by ItsGopher

I'm personally not a big fan of the downed mechanic, it gives a group too much time to get back up and join the fight. I do like that you can rez anyone, and I think that should stay; but I don't like the idea of self rezzing. If you die, there should be a consequence such as having to run back, or wait for your team to rez you assuming that victory is near.

Originally posted by FearTHeFro

I'm not sure how i feel about it yet. It's still very new to me, sometimes i like it (when I'm able to rally) and other times when i get 3 vs 1'd and have to sit there for 5-10 seconds for them to finish me off i don't like it. I think it brings a new dynamic to pvp, whether thats good or bad ill have to wait and play more.

I seriousely could try harder but this is only one example.

 

When you die in down state you do have to wait to be rezzed or run back, assuming we talking about GW 2.

SPVP is not solo pvp it's team based. BTW there is no self rezzing.

I'm not trying to convince you guys into liking the system but I swear the statements...

That's only when you die in the downed state. You are forgetting the whole 'downed state' part of what I was saying, and why I don't like it. 

In beta I personally found this to be a very fun mechanic. From the chances of coming back in pve and pvp. In pve it's to beat that mob that downed you (last...dying... breath!) and in pvp to live again to give back what was dished out. Also, in pvp (sense most seem to think this is where it matters), anyone that did a descent amount of pvp in beta knows that when someone is downed. The instinct for those that down him/her is to gank the down. (take that final kill) and it's now a strategic choice.

Do we move ahead and push the enemy line to get the final kill, do we hold back and drop them with range and aoe dmg instead? Do I sneak in and attempt the kill or do I wait for the moment?

In the end the down mechanic hurts nothing, if you deal damage in range you don't have to run down to get the kill you just keep pounding them till they die. Nice thing about seige for instance, if you kill people when they are in a downed state, the items pop up to your siege equipment :) I bet a ton of people here don't even know that.

There are many ways to down someone and in the same time give that downed person a chance to come back for revenge. Instead of an instant death there is a time (be it a very small window) you can actually live past a mistake or suprised gank. In the end this just adds another layer of tatical flavor other games don't have.

I think (personal opinion) most that don't care for this mechanic are the instant gratification people, sorry but there is no negative to this addition to the game. It might extend a fight a few seconds or make a whole new tactic come into play. Something as simple as this death mechanic has changed the way things.

Nothing stops a group from zerging a field and just killing everything in their wake and getting the final kills later or just let them bleed to death. You still get the same credit, so in the end this mechanic does a few things.

- If you do nothing in a dead state, you will die quicker, so release is faster.

- Extends the time someone can respawn and come back to the battle.

- Changes tactics on the fly in the middle of a battle for both sides effected.

- Extended time allows a chance for your team-mates to rescue you from respawn.

- Allows for any sort of dealing with this type of death model.

- Adds another layer to your game play, letting you do something even when you are down, I have seen plenty of people kill that person that killed them with their final death abilities.

- More is always better, less always sucks :)

That's my 2cents on it anyways, in the end I think it adds more to the game and was a great addition done by the devs.

I just think of the downed state as he is still alive and I haven't killed him yet.. I love downed state I think it adds more to the fights.

Also, you will finish ppl off that you didn't touch and other times you will do all the dmg and not finish the guy.  I just don't care;p..

It will basically work itself out and in the "end" really there is no end, it evens out.  Also, you can shoot a downed player from

range and still kill them that way,  just auto fire on them and move away from the other guy your fighting and dodge etc until you 

can kill the downed player or get a finsih move off.  Basically, you knocked the guy down and you haven't beat him yet until he is dead dead, downed is mostly dead. =) (Princess Bride)

I've always thought down state was just having "extra/reserve HPs" that isn't shown. You are near death, therefor it makes sence for you to be crippled after how many arrows and sword stabs got lodged into you?

For a person to be fully functional and without penalty with at least 1 HP left actually doesn't makes sence to me either.

Honestly, as someone who used to hate the downed mechanic, I actually think it's a good thing.

As I've explained in other threads, it prevents spiking from being an almost guarunteed advantage. In GW1, most games would basically result in each team spiking each other trying to rack of death penalties on one another. Because if you can instantly drop someone, you have a numbers advantage straight off the bat.

In GW2, you can still spike someone instantly, but you sacrifice a lot to do so. Basically, it's a more risky strategy, as it should be. If you want to kill someone instantly, you should have to sacrifice all else to achieve it. By having the downed state, it also makes it so you have to secure your kills.

Going back to the spike example, if you show up to a fight and spike a target down, you may have a temporary advantage, but if you burned all your CDs spiking the first target, you won't be able to stop his friends from helping him back up. This is very aparent when you watch burst warriors fight. If they wast might, frenzy, and hundred blades / eviscerate killing a target, they better make sure they finish him off, or they just wasted a bunch of long CDs.

- In short, the downed state offers another layer of strategy to the combat. It makes it more complex. It also gives players a chance to recover from an unexpectedly high burst of damage. Furthermore, there's that additional choice of leaving someone downed (slowing his respawn), or finishing him off quickly. It definitely makes for more interesting fights imho, even if I had getting stuck in a downed state for more than 10 seconds on occasion.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by otinanai123

It promotes zerging, punishes hit and run tactics, makes 1v2 2v3 predictable (the side with the bigger numbers will almost always win). It punishes players who prefer to play only ranged (don't tell me how to play). It promotes turtling (setting up turrets, banners in a certain spot and just defending it). Kills don't feel like kills. Stomps don't feel like kills either since they don't require skill (just press F).

It creates frustration in many different scenarios:

1) killing someone and then not being able to stomp him (because you are either too low HP or a buddy is guarding him). How awesome does it feel in other games when you kill someone and are left with 5% hp? You'll never experience that in GW2.

2) killing someone in a 1v2 and seeing him self-rezz when his buddy stomps you

3) being killed and having your enemy not stomp you but not let you rezz either just to mess with you

4) killing someone and seeing a team member swoosh in and take the stomp

5) fights between 2 downed players where they throw rocks at each other for 30 seconds (so much fun)

Your problem is that you think the PvP is all about "the kill."

It's not. It's all about the objectives. It's all about the team.

I know that is a perception / player preference thing - but if you only get satisfaction from "the kill" and not from "the win" then GW2 might not be the best PvP game for you.

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill". It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

scoreboard when the game ends? now I am wondering if people who dont like downed mechanic are instanced pvpers. Anyways, just like in pve you get credit for what you do, not last hitting. If you end up thinking that everyone is killstealing from you you'll end up being a sad gw2 gamer.

With.

[mod edit - let's be constructive. thanks!]

Originally posted by Kost

With.

[mod edit - let's be constructive. thanks!]

Lol...what in the hell is that all about?

hahahaha

The biggest problem with the whole premise of this, is that people are thinking of downed state as 'killed'.

It's not.  A person who is downed is not killed.  You're not killing them twice.  You're getting them to the point where they're dying, and then finally kill them.

If you can't finish them off, it's just the same as if you got a person down to 10% health in an MMORPG and then died or were chased off.

The difference is, in GW2, during that last little bit of their life, they're down on the ground and less capable of defending themselves.

This is basically tantamount to saying 'I wish in MMORPGs, people didn't have the last 10% of their life bar, because I always get them down to 10% but then their buddy beats me, or I have to run away, or they kill me.'

Downed people aren't dead, they're just dying and have a last ditch chance.  If you think of it as 'dead', the problem isn't really in the game, it's in your perception.  It's a misunderstanding as to what's going on.

If you can't finish off a downed person in 2vs1, who is basically crippled and mostly helpless, what in the world makes you think you could beat a NORMAL person in 2vs1?  A normal person who's almost dead is just like a downed person except MORE AWESOME, because they have all their skills.

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by otinanai123

Well you're wrong. I haven't played WoW since 2008 or so and don't plan on buying MoP. But still at its current state WoW pvp is slightly better.

As someone how has played both, this is just laughable

Depends on what aspects that you personally put more weight into. WoW certainly had and still has a more reactive and instantaneous combat system. You click a button in WoW or hotkey one and the ability you want to use happens at that exact moment. In guild wars 2 it has a major delay.

 

However, guild wars 2 is built from the ground up to be at least a 50% PvP game - so it has much better class balancing and the lack of god like healers makes it better in my eyes.

FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF

I dislike lies, but it's life I'll pretend I didn't just PVP'd this past weekend, without delays. I'm aware of what a delay is too.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Kost

With.

[mod edit - let's be constructive. thanks!]

Lol...what in the hell is that all about?

hahahaha

I'm not gonna lie that I laughed as well.

I can't vote without understanding what the "downed mechanic" is.

Originally posted by Meowhead

The biggest problem with the whole premise of this, is that people are thinking of downed state as 'killed'.

It's not.  A person who is downed is not killed.  You're not killing them twice.  You're getting them to the point where they're dying, and then finally kill them.

If you can't finish them off, it's just the same as if you got a person down to 10% health in an MMORPG and then died or were chased off.

The difference is, in GW2, during that last little bit of their life, they're down on the ground and less capable of defending themselves.

This is basically tantamount to saying 'I wish in MMORPGs, people didn't have the last 10% of their life bar, because I always get them down to 10% but then their buddy beats me, or I have to run away, or they kill me.'

Downed people aren't dead, they're just dying and have a last ditch chance.  If you think of it as 'dead', the problem isn't really in the game, it's in your perception.  It's a misunderstanding as to what's going on.

If you can't finish off a downed person in 2vs1, who is basically crippled and mostly helpless, what in the world makes you think you could beat a NORMAL person in 2vs1?  A normal person who's almost dead is just like a downed person except MORE AWESOME, because they have all their skills.

If only the downed mechanic was removed (no other changes) then why wouldn't I beat him?