One thing about the downed mechanic that maybe isn't considered much is the fact that you can actually use the fact that a downed player can be helped to your advantage.  I've actually killed one or two people because they got too close to our keep while trying to rez a downed ally :).

Originally posted by froakakhan

the only downside i can see to it would be a very specific scenario where it is an extremely close fight.  meaning when one player is downed, the other is arround 1-5% health with the possibility that the downed player could kill them before they can get a finishing blow on them.  thus reviving the downed player with a big chunk of health and allowing them to finish off the other player who would have been the victor if there was no downed state.

 

other than that, i like the downed state as a whole across all aspects of the game.

Brinign the other guy to downed state does not Rally you. You have to fully kill him. So in your scenario the player with 5% hp would still have that 5% hp advantage over the already downed player. The only way you can make it work is if you are warrior, manage to interrupt the Finish move with number 3 (which is knockdown throw) and then use Vengeance which bring you out of  downed for a few moments and then kills you fully once the buff fades (no 2nd downed state) 

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Mrlogic

See this is why im looking forward to WoW-MoP, not becuase im gonna play it (I wouldn't touch it with a set of pliers) but because it would atleast temporarily weed out people like these

Well you're wrong. I haven't played WoW since 2008 or so and don't plan on buying MoP. But still at its current state WoW pvp is slightly better.

This thread should have ended right here.

If OP is completely incapable of understanding GW2 PvP and why it is > WoW PvP this thread is 100% pointless.

Gear grind, killing people in a GCD or two, perma-stealth classes, gear grind, gear grind, pointless stat tracking (just to grind more gear) etc. etc.

Don't really think that's the purpose of this thread. ;) People are discussing the merits (or lackthereof) of having the downed state in GW2 PvP.

Originally posted by MikeB

Don't really think that's the purpose of this thread. ;) People are discussing the merits (or lackthereof) of having the downed state in GW2 PvP.

 Besides, arguing whether one is better than the other is simply subjective anyways. There are several reasons one may enjoy one over the other more much as some want to think saying one is better than the other is simply a fact.

Good point MikeB, man, you have your moments long as it isn't about SWTOR.

XD

On one hand, the downed state really doesnt make a difference. With or without it, your character goes down "dead but not dead", no matter what you will come back and continue fighting. It could be there on the spot or spawned all over again.

So at its core, the mechanic shouldnt really make people feel good or bad about it, since its nothing really different...

Now the problem is, which may counter what I just said... comes from the irrationality behind one aspect of it.

That is, if you go down, you can quickly toggle through nearby enemies, find the one with the lowest health and try to get a quick revive to then focus on the guy or girl who took you down to begin with. I would rather see the downed state equating revival with attacking the person who specifically took you down (or people, if more than one contributed to your death) (pvp only).

On the flip side, adding the ability to try and heal yourself in a downed state seems fine.

Even through all that, you will die in pvp and you will come back and fight again. Nothing really changes. It is perhaps best felt in PVE where it can be more of a gameplay changer than anything else.

Just my 2 Cents.

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

I like the downed state because it decreases the determinism of the fight mechanics/dynamics in PvP. I don't think it's so useful in PvE.

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

 Yeah kind of reminds me when they released Team Fortress for Quake.  All of a sudden, the game wasn't about getting kills, it was about an objective, and a lot of people had difficulty adjusting to this.  There were a lot of snipers that would just camp the balcony in two forts racking up kills, but not contributing much tot he team.  After all, a smart player could just go through the water and completely avoid the snipers.

Then there would be an engineer with a sentry gun by the flag that may not get many kills, but would be providing a vital defensive service to the team.  Because every player he kills would have got the flag if he wasn't there.

GW2 is similar.  Every single kind of PvP is objective based.  Either you are getting control poins / objectives in sPvP, or keeps / objectives in WvW.  A player in WvW that never encounters an enemy but instead runs supply over and over again to build a trebuchet will be contributing MUCH more to his team than a guy who tries to down players hitting him from the walls of a keep.

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

Originally posted by joocheese

Btw, more often than not, players will not rally, on average; I disagree with people who say the advantage is for the downed player. When a player is "downed", the advantage is still to the attacker, who still has to successfully "finish" the player.

Who the hell says that the downed player has an advantage?  Are they insane?

Losing health over time + only way to heal is by an easily interrupted channeling skill + can be OHKO'd whenever the enemy locks you down + can still be damaged to death + mediocre damage output + losing over 50% of your skills and utility...

If anything, the downed state is pathetic, and rallying is either by pure luck and/or direct team assistance.

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

 Yeah kind of reminds me when they released Team Fortress for Quake.  All of a sudden, the game wasn't about getting kills, it was about an objective, and a lot of people had difficulty adjusting to this.  There were a lot of snipers that would just camp the balcony in two forts racking up kills, but not contributing much tot he team.  After all, a smart player could just go through the water and completely avoid the snipers.

Then there would be an engineer with a sentry gun by the flag that may not get many kills, but would be providing a vital defensive service to the team.  Because every player he kills would have got the flag if he wasn't there.

GW2 is similar.  Every single kind of PvP is objective based.  Either you are getting control poins / objectives in sPvP, or keeps / objectives in WvW.  A player in WvW that never encounters an enemy but instead runs supply over and over again to build a trebuchet will be contributing MUCH more to his team than a guy who tries to down players hitting him from the walls of a keep.

I think you may have a point here. GW2's PvP kind of reminds me of TF2 (which I didn't like) where other MMOs are more like counter-strike (which I did like).

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

 

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

It IS fun from start to finish. Things like teamwork and strategy are loads of fun. If you can't find fun in that, its clearly not wat your looking for, but it would not be "improved" by removing the downed mechanic.

Originally posted by Purgatus

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

 

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

It IS fun from start to finish. Things like teamwork and strategy are loads of fun. If you can't find fun in that, its clearly not wat your looking for, but it would not be "improved" by removing the downed mechanic.

So you just started PvPing i assume? I don't know any other game with a downed mechanic.

Originally posted by otinanai123

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

 

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

 It is fun for them from start to finish. Just because it isn't for you does not mean they fel the same way.

...and is the WoW thing or "just started PvPing" your only comeback? Seems rather petty and you've used it several times now.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by otinanai123

Well?

Definitely with the downed mechanic. If I'm not mistaken, the downed mechanic is a first in an mmo; this mechanic is one of the new things that GW2 has brough to the mmo genre. I think it provides the downed player an opportunity to rally and continue fighting and it also provides the attacker with a unique "finishing move". Btw, more often than not, players will not rally, on average; I disagree with people who say the advantage is for the downed player. When a player is "downed", the advantage is still to the attacker, who still has to successfully "finish" the player.

P.S. Even after a downed player has been "finished" by an enemy attacker, other players can come and rez the defeated player; it just takes longer than if the player was just downed. In my opinion, this is one of the best wvw/spvp mechanic that GW2 has introduced.

It might be new to the mmo genre.  It is an idea stolen from people who used such systems in their pnp rpgs all the way back in the 70s.

So to sum up:

gw2 didn't invent this downed idea.

gw2 may be the first to use it in an mmorpg.

Some people will give GW2 credit for an idea that has been around over 30 years.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by otinanai123

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

 

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

 It is fun for them from start to finish. Just because it isn't for you does not mean they fel the same way.

...and is the WoW thing your only comeback? Seems rather petty and you've used it several times now.

when someone talks about stats and "checking my dps at the end of a match" it's obvious they are implying I'm a WoWer. (and I agree with you it's petty of them)

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Purgatus

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

 

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

It IS fun from start to finish. Things like teamwork and strategy are loads of fun. If you can't find fun in that, its clearly not wat your looking for, but it would not be "improved" by removing the downed mechanic.

So you just started PvPing i assume? I don't know any other game with a downed mechanic.

I don't get your meaning. Let me try to be more clear.

GW2 would not be improved by removing the Downed mechanic as it will lessen the impact of teamwork and tactics in favor of just getting kills. I don't like that. You do. Other games not having a similar mechanic means nothing in this context.

Originally posted by otinanai123

 I don't know any other game with a downed mechanic.

So?

Originally posted by Purgatus

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Purgatus

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Derpybird

Originally posted by otinanai123

PvP should be both about winning and "the kill".

In your opinion.

PvP in GW2 is about teamwork and resource control, not about racking up kills.

It's fine if you don't like this approach to PvP, but there it is.

If you want to rack up kills and see who did the most DPS at the end of a match you have other choices.

You cut out this: It should be fun from start to finish and not only when you see the scoreboard when the game ends (if you win).

 

Why do you people love bringing up stats? Have you seriously not PvPed in anything else than WoW?

It IS fun from start to finish. Things like teamwork and strategy are loads of fun. If you can't find fun in that, its clearly not wat your looking for, but it would not be "improved" by removing the downed mechanic.

So you just started PvPing i assume? I don't know any other game with a downed mechanic.

I don't get your meaning. Let me try to be more clear.

GW2 would not be improved by removing the Downed mechanic as it will lessen the impact of teamwork and tactics in favor of just getting kills. I don't like that. You do.

Ok but you'd still like it (since you're a PvPer and have PvPed for years in games without a downed mechanic) The difference for you is small but for many of us it's gamebreaking.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Cursedsei

Course you can, as long as you yourself are "competent". Not exactly the hardest subject to grasp mate. System matches you up with similarly ranked servers to keep everything relatively competitive in WvWvW. Which, of course, means you need to adapt as you are fighting them.

Idiot player will keep going into battles with the same strategy they've been using from the beginning.

Smart players will change skills/equipment as needed.

I love it how they created a supposedly undefeatable lvl of a player....

The "competent" player!! undefeatable in battle and unusurpable in romance!! the "competent" player is the man all men envy and all women want, or the woman all women envy and all men want!! the "competent" player is the bestest of the bestest, and no one can best him (or her)!!

How many times can you overlook that no one said a competent player can't be beat, what was said was you're going to have a tough go at taking down two competent players at the same time all by yourself.

Can't say I prefer one way or the other, only that the downed state reminds me of SWG's incap/DB system.