Originally posted by otinanai123

Well you're wrong. I haven't played WoW since 2008 or so and don't plan on buying MoP. But still at its current state WoW pvp is slightly better.

As someone how has played both, this is just laughable

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by otinanai123

Again you're missing the point completely (showing my colors? You haven't played WoW?) I'm gonna focus on 4) and tell you it is not about stats but about FUN. Killing someone is fun. Getting killed (especially after a good fight) isn't fun but at least it isn't frustrating(it is over quickly. you die and then respawn). Killing, stomping, dying, getting stomped, neither of those is fun in gw2 and they are all frustrating (some more, some less). The downed state just slows the game. I can see how casual players might like it though. It makes them feel safe (especially when they stick with their teammates)

Basically you like to play rogue classes, that only dish a bunch of damage and cannot do anything but jump in someone and kill him in 1-2 seconds.

Yeah, sPvP and WvW don't work like that nor reward that play style.

Although you can use that playstyle to harrass and slow the enemy both in sPvP and WvW, just not get kills.

Killing someone and finishing them by dropping a cow or a deer on them is AWESOME FUN!

Downing someone in 1 sec and then not be able to finish them because the build is limited and didn't take in account downed mechanic and team mates must make someone feel very sily.

You got me here. I like to play rogue classes, harass, hit and run, scout, take on multiple enemies, help my team by soloing. And gw2 doesn't seem to allow that playstyle. In fact GW2 seems to force us to play a certain way to have a chance in PvP (just like WoW). I won't be surprised if each class has 1-2 viable builds in PvP a month or two after launch.

Originally posted by silvermember

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by albers

Its amusing that most of the people chose with and i dont understand them at all. I didint play the game, but in my opinion that down mechanics is just annoying. You have to kill your enemy and jump on it to finish the job? bullcrap. It would be ok if he couldnt cast anything. Most annoying place for pvpers will be WvW when in pvp you kill the enemy and that enemy kills random monster to get up and fight again. I would say No thank you ...

This reminds me of when President Obama made a comment about that black teacher being arrested without knowing any of the details of the situation...

 

I honeslty think you could have gone with that saying this. they are much better examples that don't run the risk of turning into some  political shit don't ya think?

If I offended anyone with the commetn about President Obama that was not my intention. I was just reminded of that scene by albers comment. In life, some instances stick with you more than others, for some reason I always think of that scene with the President cause it was just so obviously and painfully clear that he had no idea what he was saying. having said that, I'll leave it at that and will try to come up with a non-political example next time.

cheers!

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

Originally posted by albers

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by albers

Originally posted by BadSpock

I've never once felt like the downed state mechanic meant I had to kill a player twice.

I already beat them, I just have to finish them off.

To me, "killing a player twice" is like fighting a Ret paly in WoW back in the day, burst down their health, they bubble, heal to full, then you have to kill them again.

THAT is annoying as all hell.

In a 1vs1 in GW2, I've never NOT been able to finish someone off when they were downed.

What about when you fighting 2v1 and you beat one of them in unfair fight and then the guy you beat down just keeps messing with you. I dont know i dont like it.

I don't know, I won a 2vs1 on my Warrior last weekend and stomped both of them, (kind of) it felt amazing.

Some random guy on my team did come up and stomp the 2nd guy as I was stomping the first (after I got them both down and kept the first guy down while killing the 2nd guy.)

But that is just fine. I know I killed them both, my team prospered from my actions, couldn't give two shits my team mate came up and stomped the 2nd guy.

Helped me out, I was able to then move on and find the next battle a few seconds faster...

Yeah but that is just one example :) This will happen i prommise and it will be really frustrating :)

I might add that there is nothing more frustrating than getting killed by low hp target 

I love it how someone who hasn't even played the game can promise how things will go down in a game... genious!

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by otinanai123

Well you're wrong. I haven't played WoW since 2008 or so and don't plan on buying MoP. But still at its current state WoW pvp is slightly better.

As someone how has played both, this is just laughable

Depends on what aspects that you personally put more weight into. WoW certainly had and still has a more reactive and instantaneous combat system. You click a button in WoW or hotkey one and the ability you want to use happens at that exact moment. In guild wars 2 it has a major delay.

However, guild wars 2 is built from the ground up to be at least a 50% PvP game - so it has much better class balancing and the lack of god like healers makes it better in my eyes.

Originally posted by Purgatus

I swear everytime I have an opinion, BadSpock says it first.....and better.....damn that goatee

 

You do seem overly focused on your own enjoyment over that of everyone playing, and I suspect thats the root of your problem.

So lets say you are roaming around in a sPvP match. You blind side some poor shmuck and kill him good, but he has teamates with him and you are going solo, you cannot score the final blow and retreat allowing them to rez him.

Does this upset you? They worked in tandem. They were more focused on teamwaork, and they outplayed you. Everyone like the feel of killing opponents, but if you dont work as a team to follow up you get punished.

I for one LOVE team focused games over KDR obsessive types.

Your first problem is that you're going solo... again, this isn't WOW, this is GW2... why or why would you ever go solo, in both SPVP and in WVW.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

You missed the most important part of the post. read the last sentence. COMPETENT. You cannot beat competent players in Numbersv1. Because competent players will lock you down and help their buddy up or toss down an ability that will rally. I beat tons of people 3v1 and 2v1 during all the betas.

Also making a stereotype against people  - who just happen to be of a different opinion. Well it makes you look like a fool, So stray away from doing that because it doesn't help your argument at all.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by otinanai123

Again you're missing the point completely (showing my colors? You haven't played WoW?) I'm gonna focus on 4) and tell you it is not about stats but about FUN. Killing someone is fun. Getting killed (especially after a good fight) isn't fun but at least it isn't frustrating(it is over quickly. you die and then respawn). Killing, stomping, dying, getting stomped, neither of those is fun in gw2 and they are all frustrating (some more, some less). The downed state just slows the game. I can see how casual players might like it though. It makes them feel safe (especially when they stick with their teammates)

Basically you like to play rogue classes, that only dish a bunch of damage and cannot do anything but jump in someone and kill him in 1-2 seconds.

Yeah, sPvP and WvW don't work like that nor reward that play style.

Although you can use that playstyle to harrass and slow the enemy both in sPvP and WvW, just not get kills.

Killing someone and finishing them by dropping a cow or a deer on them is AWESOME FUN!

Downing someone in 1 sec and then not be able to finish them because the build is limited and didn't take in account downed mechanic and team mates must make someone feel very sily.

You got me here. I like to play rogue classes, harass, hit and run, scout, take on multiple enemies, help my team by soloing. And gw2 doesn't seem to allow that playstyle. In fact GW2 seems to force us to play a certain way to have a chance in PvP (just like WoW). I won't be surprised if each class has 1-2 viable builds in PvP a month or two after launch.

Have you played GW2? any of the betas and/or the stress tests?

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Purgatus

I swear everytime I have an opinion, BadSpock says it first.....and better.....damn that goatee

 

You do seem overly focused on your own enjoyment over that of everyone playing, and I suspect thats the root of your problem.

So lets say you are roaming around in a sPvP match. You blind side some poor shmuck and kill him good, but he has teamates with him and you are going solo, you cannot score the final blow and retreat allowing them to rez him.

Does this upset you? They worked in tandem. They were more focused on teamwaork, and they outplayed you. Everyone like the feel of killing opponents, but if you dont work as a team to follow up you get punished.

I for one LOVE team focused games over KDR obsessive types.

Your first problem is that you're going solo... again, this isn't WOW, this is GW2... why or why would you ever go solo, in both SPVP and in WVW.

Going solo has tons of merit in WvW - someone needs to find where people are and relay enemy movement. Hell, I even send my pet off to stay somewhere just so I can have more map awareness while I am off defending or zerging.

You do not win SPVP by zerging around as a group. Solo or duo works MUUUUCH better. You split up and take multiple spots faster... or while you are sitting in a zerg caping a point. I kill your svanir or the giant solo..

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

You missed the most important part of the post. read the last sentence. COMPETENT. You cannot beat competent players in Numbersv1. Because competent players will lock you down and help their buddy up or toss down an ability that will rally. I beat tons of people 3v1 and 2v1 during all the betas.

 

Also making a stereotype against people  - who just happen to be of a different opinion. Well it makes you look like a fool, So stray away from doing that because it doesn't help your argument at all.

So you can never ever in the whole existence of time ever beat a competent player? never? even once? even just a little?

I love how you use linguistics to create closed systems and thus have a "solid" argument... And as to your last comment, you obviously didnt read what I said... "I'm starting to wonder". Not making any stereotypes, but rather wondering if people have played the game... have you?

P.S. try staying away from insulting people, it makes you look childish

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

You could beat 2 players. so what? that doesn't prove anything.  When the system starts matching you with players of similar skill level you will not be able to do this.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

You missed the most important part of the post. read the last sentence. COMPETENT. You cannot beat competent players in Numbersv1. Because competent players will lock you down and help their buddy up or toss down an ability that will rally. I beat tons of people 3v1 and 2v1 during all the betas.

 

Also making a stereotype against people  - who just happen to be of a different opinion. Well it makes you look like a fool, So stray away from doing that because it doesn't help your argument at all.

So you can never ever in the whole existence of time ever beat a competent player? never? even once? even just a little?

I love how you use linguistics to create closed systems and thus have a "solid" argument... And as to your last comment, you obviously didnt read what I said... "I'm starting to wonder". Not making any stereotypes, but rather wondering if people have played the game... have you?

P.S. try staying away from insulting people, it makes you look childish

Maybe once every few months when one of them is afk.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

You missed the most important part of the post. read the last sentence. COMPETENT. You cannot beat competent players in Numbersv1. Because competent players will lock you down and help their buddy up or toss down an ability that will rally. I beat tons of people 3v1 and 2v1 during all the betas.

 

Also making a stereotype against people  - who just happen to be of a different opinion. Well it makes you look like a fool, So stray away from doing that because it doesn't help your argument at all.

So you can never ever in the whole existence of time ever beat a competent player? never? even once? even just a little?

I love how you use linguistics to create closed systems and thus have a "solid" argument... And as to your last comment, you obviously didnt read what I said... "I'm starting to wonder". Not making any stereotypes, but rather wondering if people have played the game... have you?

P.S. try staying away from insulting people, it makes you look childish

Yawn, I am gonna stop this argument here because you can't seem to find the difference between a competent player and guy who just jumped into PvP for the first time and gets himself owned with his wife at his side. So you won that 2v1... but a competent group of players you cannot.

I have beaten tons of competent players 1v1. I promise you with the downed mechanic that you will not beat competent players at anything more than a 1v1.

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Purgatus

I swear everytime I have an opinion, BadSpock says it first.....and better.....damn that goatee

 

You do seem overly focused on your own enjoyment over that of everyone playing, and I suspect thats the root of your problem.

So lets say you are roaming around in a sPvP match. You blind side some poor shmuck and kill him good, but he has teamates with him and you are going solo, you cannot score the final blow and retreat allowing them to rez him.

Does this upset you? They worked in tandem. They were more focused on teamwaork, and they outplayed you. Everyone like the feel of killing opponents, but if you dont work as a team to follow up you get punished.

I for one LOVE team focused games over KDR obsessive types.

Your first problem is that you're going solo... again, this isn't WOW, this is GW2... why or why would you ever go solo, in both SPVP and in WVW.

Going solo has tons of merit in WvW - someone needs to find where people are and relay enemy movement. Hell, I even send my pet off to stay somewhere just so I can have more map awareness while I am off defending or zerging.

 

You do not win SPVP by zerging around as a group. Solo or duo works MUUUUCH better. You split up and take multiple spots faster... or while you are sitting in a zerg caping a point. I kill your svanir or the giant solo..

teaming up in twos in spvp makes sense, running around alone in wvw not much, there are plenty of players running around already and you can see where fights are taking place by looking at the map... plus, you're no good to anyone alone if any groups come your way. Not a bad idea but I would do scouting differently, in groups in order to increase your chances of beating other groups if you run by them, and you have a chance at taking supply camps too.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by otinanai123

Again you're missing the point completely (showing my colors? You haven't played WoW?) I'm gonna focus on 4) and tell you it is not about stats but about FUN. Killing someone is fun. Getting killed (especially after a good fight) isn't fun but at least it isn't frustrating(it is over quickly. you die and then respawn). Killing, stomping, dying, getting stomped, neither of those is fun in gw2 and they are all frustrating (some more, some less). The downed state just slows the game. I can see how casual players might like it though. It makes them feel safe (especially when they stick with their teammates)

Basically you like to play rogue classes, that only dish a bunch of damage and cannot do anything but jump in someone and kill him in 1-2 seconds.

Yeah, sPvP and WvW don't work like that nor reward that play style.

Although you can use that playstyle to harrass and slow the enemy both in sPvP and WvW, just not get kills.

Killing someone and finishing them by dropping a cow or a deer on them is AWESOME FUN!

Downing someone in 1 sec and then not be able to finish them because the build is limited and didn't take in account downed mechanic and team mates must make someone feel very sily.

You got me here. I like to play rogue classes, harass, hit and run, scout, take on multiple enemies, help my team by soloing. And gw2 doesn't seem to allow that playstyle. In fact GW2 seems to force us to play a certain way to have a chance in PvP (just like WoW). I won't be surprised if each class has 1-2 viable builds in PvP a month or two after launch.

Have you played GW2? any of the betas and/or the stress tests?

All 3 BWEs and almost all stress tests(I missed one because of a EURO2012 semifinal). Which doesn't mean I'm not still a newbie with less than 7-8 days played (and so are you)

btw are you sure you're a PvPer?

Originally posted by orsonstfu

Originally posted by joocheese

So you can never ever in the whole existence of time ever beat a competent player? never? even once? even just a little?

I love how you use linguistics to create closed systems and thus have a "solid" argument... And as to your last comment, you obviously didnt read what I said... "I'm starting to wonder". Not making any stereotypes, but rather wondering if people have played the game... have you?

P.S. try staying away from insulting people, it makes you look childish

Yawn, I am gonna stop this argument here because you can't seem to find the difference between a competent player and guy who just jumped into PvP for the first time and gets himself owned with his wife at his side. So you won that 2v1... but a competent group of players you cannot.

I have beaten tons of competent players 1v1. I promise you with the downed mechanic that you will not beat competent players at anything more than a 1v1.

You misunderstand me orsonstfu... I have nothing against you. But what I do have an issue with is the fact that you define a competent player as someone who cannot be defeated based on the situation that you created; that's too easy to do. One of the things that I like about GW2 is that even competent players have to work at it. If yo'ure running by yourself, in my opinion, you're already doing something wrong. You can play solo and prob win a few fights solo, but if you're using strategy you'll stick with other players (at least with another one) in order to increase your chances of winning.

Again I ask, have you played GW2? I'm not trying to call you out, just trying to, I guess in a way, collect information on the people who hold a speicific opinion. I guess you could say either way I would not have any way to prove otherwise, but I'll take your word for it.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by otinanai123

Again you're missing the point completely (showing my colors? You haven't played WoW?) I'm gonna focus on 4) and tell you it is not about stats but about FUN. Killing someone is fun. Getting killed (especially after a good fight) isn't fun but at least it isn't frustrating(it is over quickly. you die and then respawn). Killing, stomping, dying, getting stomped, neither of those is fun in gw2 and they are all frustrating (some more, some less). The downed state just slows the game. I can see how casual players might like it though. It makes them feel safe (especially when they stick with their teammates)

Basically you like to play rogue classes, that only dish a bunch of damage and cannot do anything but jump in someone and kill him in 1-2 seconds.

Yeah, sPvP and WvW don't work like that nor reward that play style.

Although you can use that playstyle to harrass and slow the enemy both in sPvP and WvW, just not get kills.

Killing someone and finishing them by dropping a cow or a deer on them is AWESOME FUN!

Downing someone in 1 sec and then not be able to finish them because the build is limited and didn't take in account downed mechanic and team mates must make someone feel very sily.

You got me here. I like to play rogue classes, harass, hit and run, scout, take on multiple enemies, help my team by soloing. And gw2 doesn't seem to allow that playstyle. In fact GW2 seems to force us to play a certain way to have a chance in PvP (just like WoW). I won't be surprised if each class has 1-2 viable builds in PvP a month or two after launch.

Have you played GW2? any of the betas and/or the stress tests?

All 3 BWEs and almost all stress tests(I missed one because of a EURO2012 semifinal). Which doesn't mean I'm not still a newbie with less than 7-8 days played (and so are you)

nice! I've played all BWEs and all stress tests. Btw, which team were you chearing for? I'm originally from Spain so the Euro 2012 ended quite well for me :-)

this is not a competition to see who has logged more hours, I was just curious to see who all, who are against the downed mechanic, has actually played the game.... just curious more than anything.

Originally posted by otinanai123

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by orsonstfu

I also think that it slows the gameplay down and the balancing between the professions in their down states is currently off, even if they are going to keep it.

I honestly just do not see that the very small layer of strategy that it adds is worth the frustration or the lack of ability to skillfully outplay 2 people in a 2v1 scenario and still come out on top.  With the current downed system there is no way for your to win a 2v1 against just competent people let alone good ones.

Not true, I have done it. In WVW I was able to defeat 2 players. I'm starting to wonder if any who are against the downed mechanic have even played GW2??

You could beat 2 players. so what? that doesn't prove anything.  When the system starts matching you with players of similar skill level you will not be able to do this.

Course you can, as long as you yourself are "competent". Not exactly the hardest subject to grasp mate. System matches you up with similarly ranked servers to keep everything relatively competitive in WvWvW. Which, of course, means you need to adapt as you are fighting them.

Idiot player will keep going into battles with the same strategy they've been using from the beginning.

Smart players will change skills/equipment as needed.