Originally posted by BadSpock

Just remember - there are only about 300 Heart Quests in the game.

Just 300.

There are over 1,500 Dynamic Events in GW2.

There are more Points of Interest to explore than Heart Quests - almost 3 times as many.

There are more Waypoint for fast travel to unlock then their are Heart Quests.

The ratio of Heart Quests to Events is purposefully a lot higher in the early zones to help guide new players.

Proof?

The Map tells you how many of what there are in the game... (this is an old picture)

Get the freak out of here you mean to tell me that there are only 300 heart quests and 1500 DE's in which the heart quests already give you [multiple] choices of things to do [each]. 

Sheesh!

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by aesperus

It's really a matter of perspective. Whether you wish to call them quests or not is irrelevant. Heart NPCs function like traditional quests in GW2, and the Anet devs have stated as much. This isn't to say that they aren't different, because there is a bit of difference between a heart NPC and a traditional quest, but they are most definitely this game's version of a traditional quest.

You show up, you do a task, you get a reward.

He's pretty much right here. Hearts were added after the fact simply because testers would enter the world and be lost. People were so trained to look for quest hubs that a dynamic world was too confusing for most in and of itself. People would see an event happening and keep going because they "didn't have a quest for it". Hence hearts, which give people areas to begin their exploration from and give those trained to start at a hub a place to begin while they begin their weaning process from the modes and mechanisms of lesser MMOs.

 

Remember too... at these early levels, you're not out there to fight the dragons yet. At this stage you're introducing yourself to the world (storywise) and introducing the world to yourself (playwise). There's quite a bit of gameplay we've still yet to see before we even begin to turn our focus onto the actual threats of the Elder Dragons.

It seems to be a double-edged sword. Would have been better if they had found another way to solve the problem. Maybe through an extended interactive tutorial? Now that they have the "hearts" they influence the overall view of GW2 as a game and rightfully so. 

In my opinion Open PvP was a mistake in SWTOR because it was done so poorly, something similar can be said about Arenanet's decision to introduce  Hearts. 

Originally posted by RizelStar

Originally posted by BadSpock

Just remember - there are only about 300 Heart Quests in the game.

Just 300.

There are over 1,500 Dynamic Events in GW2.

There are more Points of Interest to explore than Heart Quests - almost 3 times as many.

There are more Waypoint for fast travel to unlock then their are Heart Quests.

The ratio of Heart Quests to Events is purposefully a lot higher in the early zones to help guide new players.

Proof?

The Map tells you how many of what there are in the game... (this is an old picture)

Get the freak out of here you mean to tell me that there are only 300 heart quests and 1500 DE's in which the heart quests already give you [multiple] choices of things to do [each]. 

Sheesh!

Yes.

This game is freaking huge.

GW2 questing wasn't as bad as other mmos, so the OP is trolling us. Right off the bat you fight those giant earth elemental hands or w/e, what are you doing in WOW, even until level 10?

Truth is though, I am, and would rather play a single player RPG that can deliver that sort of epicness much better.I this last GW2 BWE I created a new character and tried to play without friends in tow, just to see how interactive other players would be. Other than certain quests that bascially auto group you, no one said anything to me directly. There were guilds spamming but, no party invite, no hello, no roleplay (Not that I cared). For a gross majority of the time peeps were just trying to kill mobs, like every other mmo.

Back to Skyrim and the steam workshop, laters.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

It seems to be a double-edged sword. Would have been better if they had found another way to solve the problem. Maybe through an extended interactive tutorial? Now that they have the "hearts" they influence the overall view of GW2 as a game and rightfully so. 

In my opinion Open PvP was a mistake in SWTOR because it was done so poorly, something similar can be said about Arenanet's decision to introduce  Hearts. 

I disagree.

Anet didn't WANT players to have to sit through a tutorial to figure out how to play the game.

They wanted players to hop in and figure things out.

Initially, players were - they explored and found events and such without issue.

As they added more and more testers and showed the game at more events, they found that people got really lost and confused who didn't have the background in sandbox games or open ended RPG's or whatever else.

So they put in Hearts to provide some guidance - but make sure they ween you off of the hand holding as you progress.

I found the ratio of heart to other content less and less even by level 15.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by aesperus

It's really a matter of perspective. Whether you wish to call them quests or not is irrelevant. Heart NPCs function like traditional quests in GW2, and the Anet devs have stated as much. This isn't to say that they aren't different, because there is a bit of difference between a heart NPC and a traditional quest, but they are most definitely this game's version of a traditional quest.

You show up, you do a task, you get a reward.

He's pretty much right here. Hearts were added after the fact simply because testers would enter the world and be lost. People were so trained to look for quest hubs that a dynamic world was too confusing for most in and of itself. People would see an event happening and keep going because they "didn't have a quest for it". Hence hearts, which give people areas to begin their exploration from and give those trained to start at a hub a place to begin while they begin their weaning process from the modes and mechanisms of lesser MMOs.

 

Remember too... at these early levels, you're not out there to fight the dragons yet. At this stage you're introducing yourself to the world (storywise) and introducing the world to yourself (playwise). There's quite a bit of gameplay we've still yet to see before we even begin to turn our focus onto the actual threats of the Elder Dragons.

 

It seems to be a double-edged sword. Would have been better if they had found another way to solve the problem. Maybe through an extended interactive tutorial? Now that they have the "hearts" they influence the overall view of GW2 as a game and rightfully so. 

 

In my opinion Open PvP was a mistake in SWTOR because it was done so poorly, something similar can be said about Arenanet's decision to introduce  Hearts. 

They could have gone different likely, but this was as close to something very, VERY important for the new player coming from other MMOs... familiarity. Hearts are something that's a bit familiar, a bit welcome, to those that only know fixed-rail themeparks. They give the illusion of the comfortable, loving questhub while sneakily kicking you into the world as dynamic events overlap the heart areas and pull you away from them. Look at the earliest ones for the humans... the bandits are poisoning the water, you have to go up that hill and help out trying to stop them. Odds are you fail. Now, while you're away from the "hub", you get a new event, killing the oozes that appear around you to get goo to make an antidote. The small chain happens, away from the hub, to completion. Now, you're up by the water station and behind it you see an opening in the hills heading off... that way. Are you ready to go and take a peek and see what's there? Maybe... maybe... new event! You've just learned to do events,  you get caught up in the next one. Your road to recovery begins.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

It seems to be a double-edged sword. Would have been better if they had found another way to solve the problem. Maybe through an extended interactive tutorial? Now that they have the "hearts" they influence the overall view of GW2 as a game and rightfully so. 

 

In my opinion Open PvP was a mistake in SWTOR because it was done so poorly, something similar can be said about Arenanet's decision to introduce  Hearts. 

Problem is, you can't really have a tutorial for 'go out and start exploring you idiots, this isn't WoW'. It just doesn't work.

The catch-22 is that unlike games like Skyrim, this game is competing with over a generation of pre-defined mechanics from other games. They aren't able to just create a new game and have people treat it as such.

For whatever reason, people have a huge expectation when it comes to MMOs. Almost no one approaches a new MMO anymore, like it's a new game. Everyone approaches MMOs expecting it to play like the MMO they just came from.

As such, Anet has to have a certain degree of familiarity, or the majority of players just won't get it. Are there other ways of doing this than hearts? Absolutely, but I think they probably chose the best solution for the problem at hand.

I mean, the mindsets this game has to deal w/ is to a point where the game literally has NPCs that run up, and ask you for help. NPCs that will run up screaming 'our village is burning! please help us!' and point the way. And most players will still ignore them, because they don't have an icon over their head.

Geez, 20 pages on a thread with a totally misinformed OP.

You don't have to do heart quests. You don't have to do the options you consider boring (there is nearly always a "kill" option as well as a "care bear" option) if you bother to actually read the list of heart quest activities.

It amazes me how much energy people can put into ranting when they obviously don't spend anywhere near that much energy doing research.

Originally posted by aesperus

Problem is, you can't really have a tutorial for 'go out and start exploring you idiots, this isn't WoW'. It just doesn't work.

For the record...I will pay Anet 5 dollars a month if they just put that up on the screen as a blurb for your first couple levels. Just for the chuckles I will get from it.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

It seems to be a double-edged sword. Would have been better if they had found another way to solve the problem. Maybe through an extended interactive tutorial? Now that they have the "hearts" they influence the overall view of GW2 as a game and rightfully so. 

 

In my opinion Open PvP was a mistake in SWTOR because it was done so poorly, something similar can be said about Arenanet's decision to introduce  Hearts. 

Problem is, you can't really have a tutorial for 'go out and start exploring you idiots, this isn't WoW'. It just doesn't work.

The catch-22 is that unlike games like Skyrim, this game is competing with over a generation of pre-defined mechanics from other games. They aren't able to just create a new game and have people treat it as such.

For whatever reason, people have a huge expectation when it comes to MMOs. Almost no one approaches a new MMO anymore, like it's a new game. Everyone approaches MMOs expecting it to play like the MMO they just came from.

As such, Anet has to have a certain degree of familiarity, or the majority of players just won't get it. Are there other ways of doing this than hearts? Absolutely, but I think they probably chose the best solution for the problem at hand.

I mean, the mindsets this game has to deal w/ is to a point where the game literally has NPCs that run up, and ask you for help. NPCs that will run up screaming 'our village is burning! please help us!' and point the way. And most players will still ignore them, because they don't have an icon over their head.

You can instruct  them to explore and give examples of how exploration can be done like randomly stumble upon a DE and follow NPCs throughout DE stages. I think that would be a better option than to create the heart quests. 

Originally posted by Thrashbarg

Geez, 20 pages on a thread with a totally misinformed OP.

You don't have to do heart quests. You don't have to do the options you consider boring (there is nearly always a "kill" option as well as a "care bear" option) if you bother to actually read the list of heart quest activities.

It amazes me how much energy people can put into ranting when they obviously don't spend anywhere near that much energy doing research.

 yeah im the OP, and sombody explained to me on like page 2 that i should just do the dynamic events instead because those are way better. and i replyed saying thats a good idea i will look for more of them, now 20 pages later we have a dozen post saying dont play it like wow (( wich i played wow for like 2 weeks when it first came out and knew then it was garbage )) and maybe GW2 isnt for me, or im a troll...blah blah blah to funny.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

 

You can instruct  them to explore and give examples of how exploration can be done like randomly stumble upon a DE and follow NPCs throughout DE stages. I think that would be a better option than to create the heart quests. 

Well they did add Vistas this BWE3... I think they are taking steps to make it as self explanitory as possible. Hearts seem to be strategically located near DE hotzones so players can find some, while the vistas teach exploration as well as a few I noticed pointed out hints on where things were like skill point challenges.

I think it is kind of charming and fits that the heartquests are kind of mundane seeing as how you are close to your home city and civilization in gerneral so naturally people won't need things like being saved from ultimate baddies. Some people actually enjoy things like puzzles, snowball fights, feeding animals, stopping leaks, putting out fires, etc... rather than killing everything that moves. While I may think the heart tasks are boring compared to the DE's, I accept why they were put in place and find it funny that the game will be judged harshly on something that isn't even a major portion of what you do in the game. The fact that it is optional and unecessary only makes me appreciate the concept more. 

*Edit* Post came out meaner than expected, so I'm just removing it entirely. Is there a post delete option I'm missing?

Originally posted by Winterizer

Originally posted by Zooce

Did you do the one where you have a snowball fight with two children?  That was pretty fun and memorable for me.

 Haha, thanx for that. What a waste of time :P

You didn't enjoy that one?  I was being sincere, that quest put a big smile on my face - as did the chain of dynamic events in that village.  The chain culminated with what seemed to be waves totalling hundreds of bears attacking due to some honey ritual the kids performed, It was pretty insane and fun.

Of the two zones I focused on the Norn area was my favorite.  There was an epic battle against a Shaman in the 11-12 area that would loop every 30 minutes and after killing that guy 6 times it never got old.  The more people around, the more epic the encounter became.  Felt like the first encounter in AQ40, but there I was- level 25 scaled down and productively enjoying level 11 content.

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Originally posted by Thrashbarg

Geez, 20 pages on a thread with a totally misinformed OP.

You don't have to do heart quests. You don't have to do the options you consider boring (there is nearly always a "kill" option as well as a "care bear" option) if you bother to actually read the list of heart quest activities.

It amazes me how much energy people can put into ranting when they obviously don't spend anywhere near that much energy doing research.

 yeah im the OP, and sombody explained to me on like page 2 that i should just do the dynamic events instead because those are way better. and i replyed saying thats a good idea i will look for more of them, now 20 pages later we have a dozen post saying dont play it like wow (( wich i played wow for like 2 weeks when it first came out and knew then it was garbage )) and maybe GW2 isnt for me, or im a troll...blah blah blah to funny.

To be honest, I think most people have forgotten the first post and are simply off on a roll now.

Originally posted by FlawSGI

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

 

 

You can instruct  them to explore and give examples of how exploration can be done like randomly stumble upon a DE and follow NPCs throughout DE stages. I think that would be a better option than to create the heart quests. 

Well they did add Vistas this BWE3... I think they are taking steps to make it as self explanitory as possible. Hearts seem to be strategically located near DE hotzones so players can find some, while the vistas teach exploration as well as a few I noticed pointed out hints on where things were like skill point challenges.

 

I think it is kind of charming and fits that the heartquests are kind of mundane seeing as how you are close to your home city and civilization in gerneral so naturally people won't need things like being saved from ultimate baddies. Some people actually enjoy things like puzzles, snowball fights, feeding animals, stopping leaks, putting out fires, etc... rather than killing everything that moves. While I may think the heart tasks are boring compared to the DE's, I accept why they were put in place and find it funny that the game will be judged harshly on something that isn't even a major portion of what you do in the game. The fact that it is optional and unecessary only makes me appreciate the concept more. 

If Arenanet had decided to open a few Open PvP servers, they would have been optional too. They didn't because it would require too much work to do them well. In a similar sense, just because something is optional, it doesn't mean it should be done badly. Sometimes it is better to not do something at all if you aren't going to do it right.

The Heart quests will count towards the overall impression of the Guild Wars 2 PvE, just like Open PvP counted towards SWTOR's PvP. 

Not alll quests have hearths. In quinsdale there is hiden cellar with bandits boss. Asuran that upgrades moas.. Its qest is so funny with catching moas :D . Add many other. But wow crowd think hearths are everything.

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

If Arenanet had decided to open a few Open PvP servers, they would have been optional too. They didn't because it would require too much work to do them well. In a similar sense, just because something is optional, it doesn't mean it should be done badly. Sometimes it is better to not do something at all if you aren't going to do it right.

 

The Heart quests will count towards the overall impression of the Guild Wars 2 PvE, just like Open PvP counted towards SWTOR's PvP. 

Heart quests are not done badly. They have a lot of thought put into them. Most have multiple ways of completing them and a lot have different interactive objects to use. For example, one of the first asura heart quests has you either fixing golems or fighting broken ones... or playing a game of golem chess against other players. If that is "badly done," I would love to have an example of "goodly done" from another MMO.

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Originally posted by Thrashbarg

Geez, 20 pages on a thread with a totally misinformed OP.

You don't have to do heart quests. You don't have to do the options you consider boring (there is nearly always a "kill" option as well as a "care bear" option) if you bother to actually read the list of heart quest activities.

It amazes me how much energy people can put into ranting when they obviously don't spend anywhere near that much energy doing research.

 yeah im the OP, and sombody explained to me on like page 2 that i should just do the dynamic events instead because those are way better. and i replyed saying thats a good idea i will look for more of them, now 20 pages later we have a dozen post saying dont play it like wow (( wich i played wow for like 2 weeks when it first came out and knew then it was garbage )) and maybe GW2 isnt for me, or im a troll...blah blah blah to funny.

To be honest, I think most people have forgotten the first post and are simply off on a roll now.

 yeah it doesnt take much to get peoples panties all bunched up.

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Originally posted by Volkon

Originally posted by DrunkWolf

Originally posted by Thrashbarg

Geez, 20 pages on a thread with a totally misinformed OP.

You don't have to do heart quests. You don't have to do the options you consider boring (there is nearly always a "kill" option as well as a "care bear" option) if you bother to actually read the list of heart quest activities.

It amazes me how much energy people can put into ranting when they obviously don't spend anywhere near that much energy doing research.

 yeah im the OP, and sombody explained to me on like page 2 that i should just do the dynamic events instead because those are way better. and i replyed saying thats a good idea i will look for more of them, now 20 pages later we have a dozen post saying dont play it like wow (( wich i played wow for like 2 weeks when it first came out and knew then it was garbage )) and maybe GW2 isnt for me, or im a troll...blah blah blah to funny.

To be honest, I think most people have forgotten the first post and are simply off on a roll now.

 yeah it doesnt take much to get peoples panties all bunched up.

this forum is all about arguing and hardly anything constructive.  If you've ever worked in the industry we have our own internal forums and the difference is day and night.