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Mortal Online

Mortal Online 

General Discussion  » Paratus: more than 200 items brings server to its knees

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46 posts found
  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  7/16/12 12:00:39 PM#21
Originally posted by ltank

Actually what was said is that unlimited items would bring the server to it's knees as you quoted, not 200 as you implied in your inflammitory title. So many reading comprehension failures.

And most games have item caps, you just don't know it because they don't add in bags that increase storage space 2 years after launch. UO had this problem when they launched. There was no limit and eventually the servers lagged to hell. they eventually put weight limits on banks and chests which acted as limits.

So many logic comprehension failures.  If the server is given a cap of 200 items, what that means is that 200 is considered to be the safety threshold for the database storing the items.  You're correct that 201 items might not bring it down, but it does mean something is fundamentally wrong with the engineering design and implmentation.

 I have no problem with caps.  Capping by weight makes perfect sense.  Darkfall also copied the cap-by-weight design of UO, but you could easily have thousands of items before hitting the weight cap.  Some guild banks had a lot more than a few thousand items with no issues.

Cap by number of items is poor game design, period.  It means you are doing something wrong on the backend that is taking up too many resources.  If the devs said the cap was 2k items, I'd say that's reasonable even though it's not the best way to do it.

 

 

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

7/16/12 1:01:44 PM#22
Originally posted by ltank

?...

And most games have item caps, you just don't know it because they don't add in bags that increase storage space 2 years after launch. UO had this problem when they launched. There was no limit and eventually the servers lagged to hell. they eventually put weight limits on banks and chests which acted as limits.

...
  realnaste

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/25/12
Posts: 107

7/16/12 1:19:52 PM#23

As much as I don't like the approach they are taking here, most of people on these boards still post a bunch of BS.

1) Comparing MO items to most other games is pointless. the amount of data describing one item in MO is enormous compared to other "similar" titles.

2) They can't design this system with low player count in mind.

  Sovrath

Elite Member

Joined: 1/06/05
Posts: 17233

7/16/12 1:24:58 PM#24
Originally posted by Bobbie203

Ive never in my life heard of bank limitations on any mmorpg in my life, what kind of server are theyt runnign from the 1990's?

Must be an old server that cant handle mroe then 200 items in character bank toons.

 

IT's getting from bad to worst.

Well, Lineage 2 had bank limits and I believe LOTRO has bank limits as well. i know one needs to upgrade to various tiers until you get to the top but there is a limit.

So I'm not too surprised.

Older games to be sure but it's not unheard of. There could  be more.

  Slapshot1188

Elite Member

Joined: 5/06/07
Posts: 4158

7/16/12 2:55:25 PM#25

Bank limits are often used in conjunction with cash shops.

 

"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

7/16/12 6:07:24 PM#26
Originally posted by Slapshot1188

Bank limits are often used in conjunction with cash shops.

 

-My first thought as well.

I hope not but.... I can certainly see extra Bank Space being sold.

  Slampig

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/29/03
Posts: 2391

Whatever you do, do NOT speak ill of Asheron's Call 2...

7/16/12 6:11:02 PM#27
Originally posted by psykobilly

 

From Paratus:

"While the numbers aren't finalized, we must impose a limit on the total number of banked items globally. The reason for this is that, with the introduction of bags, there could be a seemingly endless bank capacity which would bring our servers to their knees. The solution for now is as I've described. If you have a home base, say Bakti for example, you could store 200 items in that bank and not use other city banks."

Anyone else shocked at the bank limits?  200 items per character is a pathetically small amount for a modern MMO.  I had thousands of items in my Darkfall bank.  Modern databases easily deal with millions of items.  Something is horribly wrong with the engineering design here.  

Before deathshroud chirps in:  yes I know you can have additional items in your house, that still doesn't excuse the abysmal limitations of the item database.

 

I don't think I even own 200 items in real life. I used to own 200 CDs but have gotten rid of them over the years.

That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!

  SHOE788

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/02/10
Posts: 715

7/16/12 10:11:06 PM#28
Originally posted by Sovrath
Originally posted by Bobbie203

Ive never in my life heard of bank limitations on any mmorpg in my life, what kind of server are theyt runnign from the 1990's?

Must be an old server that cant handle mroe then 200 items in character bank toons.

 

IT's getting from bad to worst.

Well, Lineage 2 had bank limits and I believe LOTRO has bank limits as well. i know one needs to upgrade to various tiers until you get to the top but there is a limit.

So I'm not too surprised.

Older games to be sure but it's not unheard of. There could  be more.

Theres a difference between limiting it by design and limiting it because of technical reasons.

A good example of this is World of Warcraft, where unique items have skyrocketed while bank space has remained almost constant through the years. When it was asked if bank sizes would increase, designers said that they wouldn't because they wanted players to choose what items were important to them and discard the rest, making players more unique with their trinkets, tabards, and armor.

  raff01

Novice Member

Joined: 7/06/10
Posts: 524

7/17/12 6:57:53 AM#29
Originally posted by Bobbie203

Ive never in my life heard of bank limitations on any mmorpg in my life, what kind of server are theyt runnign from the 1990's?

Must be an old server that cant handle mroe then 200 items in character bank toons.

 

IT's getting from bad to worst.

Hey, Everquest 1 was 1999 and could hold millions of items

  User Deleted
7/17/12 7:03:56 AM#30
Originally posted by Ujirik

Hey, Mortal Online is an indie game made with a small budget to begin with and wasn't successful on launch.  Why are you surprised by the lack of cutting edge technology and top notch server capacity?

Expectation: AAA results

Reality: indie developer trying to stay afloat

Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

As far as the bag limit, I would guess there is more going on than just a technological limitation.  Just a hunch.

  deathshroud

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/06/10
Posts: 1392

7/18/12 12:31:22 AM#31
Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
Originally posted by Ujirik

Hey, Mortal Online is an indie game made with a small budget to begin with and wasn't successful on launch.  Why are you surprised by the lack of cutting edge technology and top notch server capacity?

Expectation: AAA results

Reality: indie developer trying to stay afloat

Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

As far as the bag limit, I would guess there is more going on than just a technological limitation.  Just a hunch.

f2p is an impossbility for MO. Anyone whos played the game for more than an hour will realise that. The game is way to buggy and exploitable, without a subscription model to monitor players the game would be ruined compeltely by exploiters hackers and dupers within the first few days of it ever gonig f2p. Game has its issues with dupes etc currently but no more so than most indie mmos and thats mostly down to thecost of subscription and the possibility of banned acounts.

there are 2 types of mmo, imitators and innovaters.

  SaintPhilip

Novice Member

Joined: 3/22/12
Posts: 729

7/18/12 12:41:19 AM#32
Originally posted by deathshroud
Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
Originally posted by Ujirik

Hey, Mortal Online is an indie game made with a small budget to begin with and wasn't successful on launch.  Why are you surprised by the lack of cutting edge technology and top notch server capacity?

Expectation: AAA results

Reality: indie developer trying to stay afloat

Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

As far as the bag limit, I would guess there is more going on than just a technological limitation.  Just a hunch.

f2p is an impossbility for MO. Anyone whos played the game for more than an hour will realise that. The game is way to buggy and exploitable, without a subscription model to monitor players the game would be ruined compeltely by exploiters hackers and dupers within the first few days of it ever gonig f2p. Game has its issues with dupes etc currently but no more so than most indie mmos and thats mostly down to thecost of subscription and the possibility of banned acounts.

F2P is impossible, true.

Cash shop is totally possible and I am begining to expect one soon. MO needs  subs and if they do not get them soon they will have to raise revenue from...Somewhere.

Most people multi-account already (er..Alot do. Not sure about most) and this would be another way to get a few Dollars a month more from many existing accounts - Sell Bag Space and such.

I hope not. But it wouldnt surprise me. The only people left right now are the hardest of the hardcore it seems. (hardcore fanboys I mean) and they would all throw Henrik a few more bucks a month without question.

  argirop

Advanced Member

Joined: 6/05/09
Posts: 326

7/18/12 1:54:28 AM#33
Originally posted by SaintPhilip

F2P is impossible, true.

Cash shop is totally possible and I am begining to expect one soon. MO needs  subs and if they do not get them soon they will have to raise revenue from...Somewhere.

Most people multi-account already (er..Alot do. Not sure about most) and this would be another way to get a few Dollars a month more from many existing accounts - Sell Bag Space and such.

I hope not. But it wouldnt surprise me. The only people left right now are the hardest of the hardcore it seems. (hardcore fanboys I mean) and they would all throw Henrik a few more bucks a month without question.

Well Sv keeps on proving that they are hungry for money. I have 2 accounts aswell but tbh its being a long time i have the feeling that SV doesnt deserve the sub money not even from 1 account. I was expecting for Awakening to be released but each time i see what they are doing, the patches, the half assed solutions that usually ends bad towards the customers and the playerbase i honestly dont feel like giving any more money to SV simply cause nothing is going to change in their ways and cause simply they dont deserve it.

 

The only thing i could throw to Henrik is a frozen yogurt right in the face. No more bucks for him not a single cent actually.

  Wollkneul

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/04/10
Posts: 18

7/25/12 10:39:19 AM#34

Interesting how every person in the internet becomes a professional game developer, when it comes to discussions about this topic.

The difference between MO and other games is, that a lot of items in MO have unique stats. So if you storage 100 swords in WoW you can save the number of swords and their stats, but one time. In MO you would have to save the number and 100 stats.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

7/25/12 3:23:33 PM#35
Originally posted by Wollkneul

Interesting how every person in the internet becomes a professional game developer, when it comes to discussions about this topic.

The difference between MO and other games is, that a lot of items in MO have unique stats. So if you storage 100 swords in WoW you can save the number of swords and their stats, but one time. In MO you would have to save the number and 100 stats.

...

  FastSloth

Novice Member

Joined: 6/11/12
Posts: 144

7/25/12 3:25:00 PM#36

Here's another thread where the remaining desperate MO followers try to help Henrik with a solution to bridge SV's lack of technical skills: http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/an-idea-to-the-bank-problem.76538/

 

It even has a Henrik reply:

 

Originally posted by Henrik N.

 "We could straight out, but then the local cap wont be 75 it will be 50, and then you can choose a home bank to 200. but no other ever over 50."

 

Sounds like Awakening will keep MO hardcore. XD

 

EDIT: Oh my. The thread gets better on page 2:

Originally posted by Henrik N.

I think this could be a decent in between solution that is optional for us and the time we have to set this.
And yes, we do want to tie this to TC citizens and upkeep, since we do need this a lot. Though we cannot expand on this system to much since it could lead to a delay of Awakening that we do not plan to do. Of course this should do a good enough start, and somewhat expandable afterwards.

Translation: "Yes everything is awesome, will be awesome, and will be even more awesome later (much much later)."

 

Hey good news. Awakening won't be delayed.

  Hancakes

Novice Member

Joined: 2/06/11
Posts: 1106

7/25/12 5:20:55 PM#37
Originally posted by FastSloth

Here's another thread where the remaining desperate MO followers try to help Henrik with a solution to bridge SV's lack of technical skills: http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/threads/an-idea-to-the-bank-problem.76538/

 

It even has a Henrik reply:

 

Originally posted by Henrik N.

 "We could straight out, but then the local cap wont be 75 it will be 50, and then you can choose a home bank to 200. but no other ever over 50."

 

Sounds like Awakening will keep MO hardcore. XD

 

EDIT: Oh my. The thread gets better on page 2:

Originally posted by Henrik N.

I think this could be a decent in between solution that is optional for us and the time we have to set this.
And yes, we do want to tie this to TC citizens and upkeep, since we do need this a lot. Though we cannot expand on this system to much since it could lead to a delay of Awakening that we do not plan to do. Of course this should do a good enough start, and somewhat expandable afterwards.

Translation: "Yes everything is awesome, will be awesome, and will be even more awesome later (much much later)."

 

Hey good news. Awakening won't be delayed.

Doesnt want to delay Awakening???    Umm... I think Henrik coded his own calendar and its bugged.   April 2012 is that way <------

  Wollkneul

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/04/10
Posts: 18

7/26/12 7:57:09 AM#38
Originally posted by Hancakes
Originally posted by Wollkneul

Interesting how every person in the internet becomes a professional game developer, when it comes to discussions about this topic.

The difference between MO and other games is, that a lot of items in MO have unique stats. So if you storage 100 swords in WoW you can save the number of swords and their stats, but one time. In MO you would have to save the number and 100 stats.

I find it laughable people still try to rationalize Starvaults inability to code. 

 I find it laughable people are still unable to argue rationally, if it's about something they hate.

  psykobilly

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/10
Posts: 347

 
OP  7/26/12 9:31:07 AM#39
Originally posted by Wollkneul

 I find it laughable people are still unable to argue rationally, if it's about something they hate.

I find it laughable that you think weapons in Mortal online have 100 stats and fail to back it up with anything rational.

Not only that, but you seem to think that even if swords do have 100 stats, that it would amount to a lot of data per sword... so much as to cause the database to hit some kind of limitation.  As if storage space is some kind of rare commodity.  

The fact is that the devs won't come out and say WHY there is any limitation at all, and that is worrisome in itself.  

 

 

 

 

  indiramourn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/13/05
Posts: 882

MMOs require more reasoning and imagination than most stereotypically ''adult'' activities.

7/26/12 10:38:04 AM#40
Originally posted by GrumpyCharr
 

Lesson: Nobody gets a break and if you're going to try to go out on your own to start a game company, be prepared for folks to turn on you - it's the way of the gamer world.

Actually the lesson is: If you create a C- product and charge a Triple A product price for it, be preparied for folks to turn on you.

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