Originally posted by Quirhid

GW2 no longer has energy management, its all cooldowns now.

lolwut? Every class I played had some form of energy...what game were you playing?

Originally posted by KamiKazeTG

Originally posted by Quirhid

GW2 no longer has energy management, its all cooldowns now.

lolwut? Every class I played had some form of energy...what game were you playing?

Some classes build up something in combat and the thief has initiative, but no class uses energy or mana.

TESO is going to be freaking awesome and not due to the IP.

The design team is great and they have tons of _NEW_ ideas.

Finally a new DAoC is breeding..

Originally posted by DJJazzy

Originally posted by fivoroth

Who is actually developing this MMO? I hope it's not Bethesda as they should be working on the new TES game and their other franchises. I can't wait for Dishonoured to come out. That game looks badass.

The parent company of Bethesda, ZeniMax, is making the mmo.

Have these guys developed a MMO before? Or any game for that matter? Am I the only one that is concerned by this?

Then again, GW1 was the first game by ArenaNet, and it was a success...but somehow I'm not getting the same vibe with TESO.

After reading thru this thread, it seams that TESO is allready out and been played and trashed.

I have read pretty much every article thats come out about it, whats been said by the devs themselves has been very generalized and not specific at all, I dont see where enough info has been giving for all these statements that ppl have been saying like they are facts.

Quite frankly, none of you have any idea what TESO is really gonna be like.

Obviously for it to be an online persistant world, some mechanics have to change.  For me, as long as they keep the openworld mixed with themepark style towns, just like the current single player games and add in a DAoC inspired PvP systemm sounds to me like the game might have some promise, but we wont know for awhile and who knows, all you self proclaimed gaming prophets might be right. 

Originally posted by laokoko

yup gw2 looks like a wow clone with slightly different mechanic.  People call AOC wow clone too.  That dont' exactly have the same combat system as wow too.

If everyone calls every game wow clone, I don't see why GW2 is any difference.

No you don't see it - is a thing you feel as you are playing.

Sometimes breaking something in components alone doesn't say much on how they work together.

AoC has exactly the same combat system as WoW - tank, healer, physical dps, magic dps. Sure the input is different, but that is it.

WhaT about the NPCs in WoW and AoC - yep static.

Do quests happen without user input in WoW and AoC? Can you reach a location that last time you logged was filled with an ally outpost and now all the allies have been killed and the location has been occupied?

Nope.

Can anyone play any quest in WoW and AoC together, without partying?

No.

Open world raids? Jumping puzzles? Open world dungeons?

Originally posted by waveslayer

After reading thru this thread, it seams that TESO is allready out and been played and trashed.

I have read pretty much every article thats come out about it, whats been said by the devs themselves has been very generalized and not specific at all, I dont see where enough info has been giving for all these statements that ppl have been saying like they are facts.

Quite frankly, none of you have any idea what TESO is really gonna be like.

Obviously for it to be an online persistant world, some mechanics have to change.  For me, as long as they keep the openworld mixed with themepark style towns, just like the current single player games and add in a DAoC inspired PvP systemm sounds to me like the game might have some promise, but we wont know for awhile and who knows, all you self proclaimed gaming prophets might be right. 

Don't worry.

This isn't a jab at TESO.

It is a jab at GW2.

People call GW2 a wow clone all the time. Anytime two games have an aspect that even remotely resembles each other, one will be called a clone. In both GW2 and TESO's case, this "clone" status will mostly come from the medium-to-high fantasy setting. If you go into the GW2 forum here, you'll get a lot of people saying they won't bother with it because of the WoW-like setting.

It's likely going become more prevalent the more popular settings like TSW become. MMOs are a fair bit behind the curve when it comes to the appeal of urban fantasy, but likely it'll expand steadily, and so will those who poo-poo at more traditional fantasy. An increase in choices often seems to leads to dissatisfaction with what you were once limited to.

But I've gotten a bit off topic fromt he OP, so I'll just reiterate: all a game needs is ONE feature (be it mechanics, UI, setting, races, enemies, art style, a  single shared dev) for it to be called a clone of another game in the forums. Why?

Because haters gonna hate.

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Well looking over this forum's activity, it seem like the community here views TESO as a WoW clone. This come sup in just about every thread.

But what I want to know is how/why is TESO being considered a WoW clone?

How is TESO considered a WoW clone but GW2 isn't?

TESO seems to share many features with GW2, except it has three faction PvP in the world shared by PvE. You still have active dodge and block mechanics like GW2, and you have class system like GW2, and I heard it has events, but not sure to what extent. Also TESO is being backed by some DAoC developers for PvP.

Sounds closest to GW2 than WoW. So how is it a WoW clone but not GW2?

Honesty, where does the WoW come into this at all?

I really don't think it's a wow clone and I don't see so many connections to it. So I agree with you...

Don't care who/what gets called a WoW Clone or not.

Since just seeing the term being seriously used by any author results in an instant mental discount of estimated I.Q., go nuts and join the "I just post handy sound byte memes" crew. 

When Blizzard created WoW, the fans of Warcraft 1,2 and 3 did not try to rip Blizzard's throat out. That's because WoW was re-interpretation of an RTS game in a 3D game world. The RTS game and the MMO version were radically different.

But TESO will be a re-interpretation of an existing 3D game world in a MMORPG game world. It's like taking the existing single-player games and changing them by removing features and adding other features. Fans of TES games know that the features that made those games great will not translate into an MMO, so they're upset to see someone making a generic MMORPG and  slapping the TES name on it.

Originally posted by MMOExposed
Well looking over this forum's activity, it seem like the community here views TESO as a WoW clone. This come sup in just about every thread.

But what I want to know is how/why is TESO being considered a WoW clone?

How is TESO considered a WoW clone but GW2 isn't?

TESO seems to share many features with GW2, except it has three faction PvP in the world shared by PvE. You still have active dodge and block mechanics like GW2, and you have class system like GW2, and I heard it has events, but not sure to what extent. Also TESO is being backed by some DAoC developers for PvP.

Sounds closest to GW2 than WoW. So how is it a WoW clone but not GW2?

Honesty, where does the WoW come into this at all?

Don't feed into it, it will not be a WoW clone...

The MMO gamer in me died a bit when I learned that instead of using the amazing Skyrim character progression model, they would use classes in TESO. Not talking about combat here, just the skill based character development.

Why? WHY?

Originally posted by MMOExposed

Originally posted by MadnessRealm

Originally posted by OldManFunk

Originally posted by laokoko

I suppose GW2 being b2p made people not calling it a wow clone.  That's probably the biggest reason.

And if you want to say bad thing about GW2, you'll have a big b2p fan base behind your back waiting to stab you. 

 

GW2 isn't a WoW clone because of it's skill system, combat system, zoned world, fair and balanced sPvP, WvW, crafting system, AH features, and focus on events over quest hubs just to name a few features. Now I have to ask, am I wrong?

 

As far as TESO being called a WoW clone, there are obviously some seriously pissed off Elder Scrolls fans who are upset that the game doesn't live up to their expectations and calling a game a WoW clone is one of the biggest insults you can use on this forum without getting moded.

 

TESO isn't a WoW clone and neither is GW2.

It could be argued that throwing out what makes a TES game what it is, and replacing it with the traditionnal stuff, is a form of "WoWification" which would in turn cause players to call it a WoW clone. 

 

I mean let's face is, besides the names, TESO is nothing like a TES game. 

 

Besides name, Guilld Wars 2 is nothing like GW1. WoW is nothing like Warcraft besides name. Not sure how TESO get bashed for not being TES.

Warcraft was a RTS/RPG which was turned into an MMO. The community was much less reluctant to accept the change of game mechanisms. In fact, it was seen as a move forward which I also support.

In case of TESO, they are trying to transform an existing RPG into an MMO. I consider that much harder than turning RTS into MMO in terms of pleasing the community. Especially if you consider that ES is one of the most successful RPG series ever made. Furthermore, the game always top graphics and is known for its game mechanisms which do not change from one ES part to next one (or at least not much). Now they are trying to bring this amazing RPG series into a pretty traditional themeparky world which the community apparently does not appreciate.

In regards to the original question, some people claim that none of these is a WoW clone. I do not like the term "WoW clone" since it implies that the game is practically a copy paste of WoW which obviously it is not.

You asked why is TESO considered a WoW clone and not GW 2. My opinion is, that they are both very close to WoW. As I mentioned above, I would not go as far as saying they are clones since there is an attempt to distinguish themselves from WoW. However, I have not seen anything new so far in these games.

GW fans like to say how many "innovations" there are. There are truly none. The game is different from WoW in several areas. However, in these areas, GW simply uses mechanisms of other games.

E.g.

Dynamic events

3 Factions

WvWvW

No holy trinity

Easily attainable gear cap

B2P model

Dodge button

Tell me which of these is a new element in MMO gaming. The game itself does not bring anything that would be completely new, in my opinion. Year 2012 will not become a milestone in MMO gaming like 2004.

And I am saying this as a person that actually bought GW, so this is not a hater opinion. I am just a person that is neither a fan nor a hater. Trying to stay unbiased, but no matter how much you try to be objective, you always look at the world through your own eyes, so feel free to disagree :)

Originally posted by coretex666

Tell me which of these is a new element in MMO gaming. The game itself does not bring anything that would be completely new, in my opinion. Year 2012 will not become a milestone in MMO gaming like 2004.

Out of curiosity, what did WoW (in 2004) brought to the genre that was "new"? I mean truly new, as per your own definition. I'm holding my breath now... :)

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by coretex666

Tell me which of these is a new element in MMO gaming. The game itself does not bring anything that would be completely new, in my opinion. Year 2012 will not become a milestone in MMO gaming like 2004.

Out of curiosity, what did WoW (in 2004) brought to the genre that was "new"? I mean truly new, as per your own definition. I'm holding my breath now... :)

At launch, WoW's greatest innovation was "accessability".

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

At launch, WoW's greatest innovation was "accessability".

Other games, like AC2 or DAoC, where pretty accessible too. Hell, even UO wasn't really hard to get into.

Accessibility is just one of the things Blizzard took, polished, and used.

The only innovation in WoW (at release in 2004) in my opinion is their unsurpassed ability to take everything good from other games, polishing it, and mixing it up in a working a fun game model. That's (among other things) why they crushed poor EQ2 which was released at the same time.

Originally posted by coretex666

Warcraft was a RTS/RPG which was turned into an MMO. The community was much less reluctant to accept the change of game mechanisms. In fact, it was seen as a move forward which I also support.

In case of TESO, they are trying to transform an existing RPG into an MMO. I consider that much harder than turning RTS into MMO in terms of pleasing the community. Especially if you consider that ES is one of the most successful RPG series ever made. Furthermore, the game always top graphics and is known for its game mechanisms which do not change from one ES part to next one (or at least not much). Now they are trying to bring this amazing RPG series into a pretty traditional themeparky world which the community apparently does not appreciate.

In regards to the original question, some people claim that none of these is a WoW clone. I do not like the term "WoW clone" since it implies that the game is practically a copy paste of WoW which obviously it is not.

You asked why is TESO considered a WoW clone and not GW 2. My opinion is, that they are both very close to WoW. As I mentioned above, I would not go as far as saying they are clones since there is an attempt to distinguish themselves from WoW. However, I have not seen anything new so far in these games.

GW fans like to say how many "innovations" there are. There are truly none. The game is different from WoW in several areas. However, in these areas, GW simply uses mechanisms of other games.

E.g.

Dynamic events

3 Factions

WvWvW

No holy trinity

Easily attainable gear cap

B2P model

Dodge button

Tell me which of these is a new element in MMO gaming. The game itself does not bring anything that would be completely new, in my opinion. Year 2012 will not become a milestone in MMO gaming like 2004.

And I am saying this as a person that actually bought GW, so this is not a hater opinion. I am just a person that is neither a fan nor a hater. Trying to stay unbiased, but no matter how much you try to be objective, you always look at the world through your own eyes, so feel free to disagree :)

Innovation isn't invention.

Most of what GW2 does is improvements and they innovate on the way they mold those systems together to reate a different experience.

Additionally, the way they can add content to the servers without needing to restart the server, from patches to the end BWE events is also a clear innovation.

In fact the way Anet updates their games is patented.

Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Originally posted by laokoko

yup gw2 looks like a wow clone with slightly different mechanic.  People call AOC wow clone too.  That dont' exactly have the same combat system as wow too.

If everyone calls every game wow clone, I don't see why GW2 is any difference.

 

No you don't see it - is a thing you feel as you are playing.

Sometimes breaking something in components alone doesn't say much on how they work together.

AoC has exactly the same combat system as WoW - tank, healer, physical dps, magic dps. Sure the input is different, but that is it.

WhaT about the NPCs in WoW and AoC - yep static.

Do quests happen without user input in WoW and AoC? Can you reach a location that last time you logged was filled with an ally outpost and now all the allies have been killed and the location has been occupied?

Nope.

Can anyone play any quest in WoW and AoC together, without partying?

No.

Open world raids? Jumping puzzles? Open world dungeons?

 

So basically gw2 have a dump down UI and amount of skill and it suddenly become inovation and different?  so in gw2 you don't have to worry about threat and mob simply attack the closest target it become special?

You know what game have public quest?  warhammer online.  And people call it wow clone.  My game experience is completely different when I play warhammer.  I can level purely from scenario and rvr, which is all I do, which is nothing like wow and people call it a wow clone.

EQ have open world raids and people say wow clone eq.  Wow actually had open world raids, just people don't take it seriously because open world raids can range from 10-100 people which make it bad for balancing the game.  I dont' know if Wow have open world raid now because I havn't play after the first expension.

The buttom line is if the game is not sandbox we call it a wow clone on this site.  But GW2 are taking it easy because of all the B2P fans/defenders. 

again like so many times before this is neverending , every mmo is a clone for last mmo, and every game reminds of something else. it is not a rocket sciense so why these things needs to be talked? i wish peeps use their energy for things that actually matters, this is load of ******