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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

Beta Weekend Event Reviews & Impressions (Archived)  » After playing all 3 BWEs, here is my little review.(rating+pros/cons)

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37 posts found
  otinanai123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 272

 
OP  7/25/12 7:12:31 PM#1

PvE / leveling: 9.5/10

pros:

dynamic events - best addition to MMOs in the last 5 years.

vistas and jumping puzzles - love 'em. Hope they add more (and more difficult ones)

% completion on every map - It woke up my inner completionist

pretty much everything you do gives you exp

not everything is soloable - makes me feel like the world is a dangerous place and not disney land

some things are semi-soloable if you are really strong/skilled

i like the downed mechanic (in pve)

daily/monthly achievements (plus they are fully automatic. no need to talk to npcs)

cons:

hearts - They make leveling with friends difficult and forced me many times to solo. They are "ok" if you solo (but not really fun) gw2 would be better off without 'em. also some hearts turn you into beasts with skills that root you(hate that). and the worst of it all is they are required for 100% completion of a zone.

 

Combat/gameplay: 9/10

pros:

dodge system

not having to spam buttons to be effective 

punishes clickers (correct movement is important)

can move while casting

cons:

global cooldown - I would prefer a resource system for all classes (not just thief) and no gcd

can't queue skills (obviously you wouldn't need this if there was no gcd. one of those two must be changed)

some skills root you (hate that)

 

sPvP: 5/10

pros:

everyone has equal gear

rank system

map layout forces tactical play and small scale fights 1v1 2v2s

cons:

the downed mechanic absolutely ruins pvp for me. It should be pve-only. It reduces the skill cap and makes 1v2, 2v3 impossible to win for the fewer players. Killing someone gives you worry("ok now how do i stomp this guy?") instead of satisfaction. being downed isn't fun.

after a while only XvXs(1v1 2v2 3v3 etc) will take place. if players find themselves outnumbered there is no reason to fight since you have no chance of winning. they will just run and do other things (or wait for more team members to arrive).

copied the CC system from WoW (have you learned nothing from WAR?)

 

WvW: 3/10

I had high hopes for WvW (as an ex-DAoC player and a PvPer)

pros: huge zones, they have added pve stuff (vistas etc), the supply system seems interesting, you can "force" NPCs to assist you.

cons:

the downed state (again)

0 reward for killing another player (I used to love soloing in other games) I can totally see enemies just running past eachother and waving instead of fighting. Doesn't feel like a real war.

the zergs will just circle eachother and just take undefended keeps (WAR all over again) - The rewards for taking undefended keeps are much bigger and consistent than defending (people will always do what is more rewarding and not what's more fun)

and my dealbreaker: no personal progression after 80 (they copied so much from DAoC but forgot the most important thing: the realm point/rank system)

in large scale fights it's impossible to melee

siege weapons are too powerful (and maybe too expensive - depends on how fast gold can be farmed at 80)

 

UI: 6/10

pros:

looks good

minimalistic

no user created addons (yep it's a pro for me)

very informative map 

cons:

can't fully customize the UI (GW1 could do this)

weapon skills can't be rearranged (very important for me - GW1 could do this)

rebinding keys hides the range indicator [they fixed this but the new range indicator is very hard to see]

can't have different binds for every character (have to rebind keys every time I switch chars)

map doesn't open instantly

 

graphics: 8/10 (potentially 9/10)  - I had to play at the lowest settings to keep my fps high. Hopefully it'll be better optimized at release. graphics aren't very important for me

 

music: 6/10 - WoW's music has set my standards way too high

 

about the cash shop: server transfers and additional characters are too expensive(nobody cares about us altoholics). I like that there are different prices on server transfers depending on how full a server is. 

 

events: I loved the BWE3 event. Hopefully we will see more of those after release.

 

PvE overall: 9.2/10

PvP overall: 4.5/10

Final score: 7.5/10

 

For comparison I would rate WoW at 5.5/10 (pve), 6/10 (pvp), 6/10 (overall) 

and DAoC before ToA at 4/10 (pve), 9/10 (pvp), 8.5/10 (overall)

 

Final verdict: Best PvE in an MMO until now (better than WoW) but the PvP is a disappointment (which can be turned around if they remove the downed state from PvP and add a rank system to WvW - and a few other changes)

(btw i honestly tried to make it a little review. no idea how it got this big. anyway i'm not changing the title now)

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

7/25/12 7:21:18 PM#2

Interesting, I would rate the wvw and spvp a 9/10 and the pve a 7/10. Oh well we all have different opinions.

  Eir_S

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4700

GW2 socialist.

7/25/12 7:28:34 PM#3

Good review, I thought the PvE and PvP were both amazing, I'm not a huge PvP'er though.

  jmcdermottuk

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/10/06
Posts: 781

7/25/12 7:29:24 PM#4

Good review until you got to W v W. I have to disagree with you here. I had a blast in W v W over the weekend, Attacking and Defending keeps. Yes, Defending Keeps! And yes you get a Keep Defended reward for it. I'm an old DAoC player as well and I thought the W v W was the closest thing to that experience I've seen in a good long while. I thoroughly enjoyed it.

 

What you have to remember here is the W v W is won by controlling territory. The idea that players can swap keeps off with the other teams then take em back won't work. Keeps need to be held to keep the score ticking up. The key to the whole thing is Supply. Control the Supply, control the towers and keeps, win the maps. Anyone who lets the opposition take control of stuff thinking they can get it back later is gonna find their server on the losing side.

 

Other than that, a pretty good review. I totally agree with the lack or addons being a Pro.

  xm522

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/23/09
Posts: 116

7/25/12 7:29:38 PM#5

i have to disagree on the downed state being a con, as I loved it. the downed state helped me overcome some very closed fights (thank you my illusions :D ). i ike the pvp and i expect it to improve as w learn how to play.

i have no comment on everything else as i have nothing to really compare with. but i liked everything well enough.

  GreenishBlue

Novice Member

Joined: 5/27/12
Posts: 266

7/25/12 7:29:55 PM#6

I don't need rewards for a PvP kill. It's enough for me to press "F" and see the glorious finisher animation. And I get XP by doing that. :) I would like a server rank system though, that would be awesome.

  Tinea

Advanced Member

Joined: 7/27/03
Posts: 70

7/25/12 7:35:47 PM#7

"dynamic events - best addition to MMOs in the last 5 years."

I'm sure people will flame you saying that DEs came about because of WAR then Rift (or whatever other game I've missed).  True, GW2 takes them a bit further by responding by the outcome, but at least in BWE3, the population was so high that I rarely failed.. it was the same outcome everytime.   Maybe once the swarm of people have passed affer launch it will be more interesting.

As for your comparisons to DaoC and WvW, I completely understand.  But I would be surprised if A-net does not reward WvW at max level... its one (if not the only) endgame mechanic in the game.  Without rewards it will probably not draw people for a long time... unless they add hats as rewards (see what I did there?).

  monarc333

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/16/07
Posts: 603

Gizmofusion.com

Screenrag.com

Steamfirst.com

7/25/12 7:40:41 PM#8

music: 6/10 - WoW's music has set my standards way too high?????

Man this game has some of the best music around. You dont like Elder Scrolls music? Same guy. The music is sweeping and epic. Too each his own i guess.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

7/25/12 7:41:02 PM#9

Overall it's not a bad review, except you basically knocked off ~5 / 10 points because of the downed mechanic alone. I'm sorry you hated it that much, but it really is a somewhat stupid reason to judge PvP / WvW off of.

I suggest you watch some of Team Paradigm's PvP videos: Engineer 3 kit

They're fairly good, and while I can't remember the exact video, they do have some that explain how they are playing and why. They also have videos of them handling uneven odds (1v2s, 2v3s), if it's a 1v3 usually the strategy is to outlast the enemies until backup arrives. If you can manage to kill all 3, then they would have to be extremely terrible players.

As for the downed mechanic itself, it absolutely does not make it impossible to take on 2 or 3 people. You just need to understand the mechanic & how it works.

For example, you don't need to finish someone to defeat them. You can widdle away their health w/ damage, dots, etc.

Also, if someone's trying to res them, every class has a lot of CC options to interrupt this action. You can also lay down AoE near a corpse a lot of times to bait the enemy's teamm8s into going for the revive, and getting a double kill that way. This is especially effective in WvW.

One of my favorite strategies in WvW was to leave a downed ally off to the side of the zerg. More often than not his buddies would try and res him. Depending on the situation I'd lay down a bunch of AoE to trap them (and get a ton of kills), or if it was during a keep defense, I would start shelling them w/ canon fire.

The game is all about skill, tactics, and strategy. Start educating yourself on these (watching some of the Paradigm videos is a good start (sPvP), as is watching some of Team Legacy's stuff (WvW)). I think you'll be surprised by what's possible, once you get a better grasp on the game.

- Also, on a side note. Every time you down a target, they respawn with less HP (death penalty), so if you repeatedly down someone, they are going to be VERY easy kills if they get revived.

  Sybnal

Elite Member

Joined: 2/16/04
Posts: 260

7/25/12 7:43:27 PM#10

Good review, also one I happen to agree with.  Especially your point about the DaoC realm rank system and the downed state. There is definitely room for improvment with the PvP aspect of the game.

 

  otinanai123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 272

 
OP  7/25/12 7:51:20 PM#11
Originally posted by aesperus

As for the downed mechanic itself, it absolutely does not make it impossible to take on 2 or 3 people. You just need to understand the mechanic & how it works.

This won't be possible with players of similar skill and once people have a good grasp of the game and use CC effectively. The downed state pretty much converts 1v2s to 1v3s. 

  Magnetia

Advanced Member

Joined: 11/07/11
Posts: 967

Any fool can know. The point is to understand.

7/25/12 7:55:47 PM#12

PVP does have ranks. Gained via glory.

Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?

  Azirek27

Novice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 3

7/25/12 8:21:13 PM#13

GW2 can have 10/10 in all but it will end like any other "new" MMORPG. All threads of this kind compere GW2 mainly with WoW and you all fail to understand the fact that a ratings means nothing vs WOW. A game can have the best graphics in any MMO but at the cost of a powerful machine, WOW runs in almost everything. A game can have an innovative PvP mechanics or environments or require "skill" but WoW PvP is simple and anyone can do PvP and at high level of competition skill is required, so, everyone have a place in WoW PvP. The PvE in WoW is old style but can appeal the people that like the grind, at some degree the people that like history and the people that want to rush have a few ways to level up. Some people said they like to explore and “enjoy” the game at their own pace and do all the game have to offer for their level but most players just want to rush to the end game content because that is what matter for the development of their character (better and cooler gear, cool tittles, cool mounts, etc.) and WoW make all that easy even the hardest content get nerfed and almost all the people that care about PvE can finish and obtain all the rewards at the end. And the most important thing, people want to play what everyone else plays, just a few want to play what they think is the best game for them and them are the community of the “new” MMORPGs and they are just a few in comparison with WoW fan base and players .

GW2 maybe will win the title of “We did better than the others MMORPG that try to compete with WOW” only because it don’t have a monthly subscription from the start. The fans of GW and the people that are really searching something different will play and maybe stay in GW2 but most of the people in this forum are only trying to convince themself that GW2 will be the next big thing since WoW and all of you will be disappointed.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

7/25/12 8:43:24 PM#14
Originally posted by otinanai123
Originally posted by aesperus

As for the downed mechanic itself, it absolutely does not make it impossible to take on 2 or 3 people. You just need to understand the mechanic & how it works.

This won't be possible with players of similar skill and once people have a good grasp of the game and use CC effectively. The downed state pretty much converts 1v2s to 1v3s. 

Again, watch some of the team paradigm vids.

Here's another video from Teldo: Teldo's Burning Engineer in the end he manages to pull off a 1v3 (really close fight, but rallies twice). In most of their videos they are fighting against other guild teams btw. Most of them don't have them fighting pugs.

If you watch some of the more recent videos (they have a few against Team Legacy, and other guilds), it's definitely harder to pull off some of that stuff, but not impossible.

Really, the main difference between random guild fights and organized tournaments is the communcation. You don't tend to have as many 1v3s, because there's more communication on both sides, and at best a 1v3 is a heavily specced support player trying to stall the majority of the enemy team while the rest of his m8s cap the other points.

All the downed state does, is make it so you can't insta burst a target and win. If you blow your load killing a target super fast, you have a temporary advantage, but if you don't secure the kill, it's short lived. Every class only has 1 way to heal thesmelves, which is interrupted as soon as they take damage (and if you can't find a way to put damage on them now and again, you may want to practice your skills a bit).

The biggest threat is when teamm8s either double res, or swiftness+res (requires a long cooldown) to get a speedy revive off. However, if they try and do that they are a number of ways of dealing w/ it. Stuns, fears, knockbacks, straight up killing the downed player before they can get the revive off. There are a lot of options.

It's really not a difficult mechanic to work around, and there's pleanty of PvP videos (like they one's I've linked) that show this quite clearly, and how to deal w/ it. If you wanna play a skill-based pvp system, then learn how to play it better. Switch targets, keep track of who you're fighting, pay attention to where your allies are, etc. It really is just another mechanic that separates the skilled players, from the non skilled.

If you still can't handle it, after watching all the pvp guides explaining how the pros do it, then know this. By having 3 enemies focusing on you, that's a large chunk of the enemy team that is being highly ineffective. Stalling is just as important a tactic as killing. If you can slow down the rate at which an enemy is gaining points, then you are doing a lot for your team. No skill-based pvp system should make it that you are guarunteed kills in a 1v3 scenario. Or even a 1v1.

  otinanai123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 272

 
OP  7/25/12 9:10:31 PM#15
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by otinanai123
Originally posted by aesperus

As for the downed mechanic itself, it absolutely does not make it impossible to take on 2 or 3 people. You just need to understand the mechanic & how it works.

This won't be possible with players of similar skill and once people have a good grasp of the game and use CC effectively. The downed state pretty much converts 1v2s to 1v3s. 

Again, watch some of the team paradigm vids.

Here's another video from Teldo: Teldo's Burning Engineer in the end he manages to pull off a 1v3 (really close fight, but rallies twice). In most of their videos they are fighting against other guild teams btw. Most of them don't have them fighting pugs.

If you watch some of the more recent videos (they have a few against Team Legacy, and other guilds), it's definitely harder to pull off some of that stuff, but not impossible.

Really, the main difference between random guild fights and organized tournaments is the communcation. You don't tend to have as many 1v3s, because there's more communication on both sides, and at best a 1v3 is a heavily specced support player trying to stall the majority of the enemy team while the rest of his m8s cap the other points.

All the downed state does, is make it so you can't insta burst a target and win. If you blow your load killing a target super fast, you have a temporary advantage, but if you don't secure the kill, it's short lived. Every class only has 1 way to heal thesmelves, which is interrupted as soon as they take damage (and if you can't find a way to put damage on them now and again, you may want to practice your skills a bit).

The biggest threat is when teamm8s either double res, or swiftness+res (requires a long cooldown) to get a speedy revive off. However, if they try and do that they are a number of ways of dealing w/ it. Stuns, fears, knockbacks, straight up killing the downed player before they can get the revive off. There are a lot of options.

It's really not a difficult mechanic to work around, and there's pleanty of PvP videos (like they one's I've linked) that show this quite clearly, and how to deal w/ it. If you wanna play a skill-based pvp system, then learn how to play it better. Switch targets, keep track of who you're fighting, pay attention to where your allies are, etc. It really is just another mechanic that separates the skilled players, from the non skilled.

If you still can't handle it, after watching all the pvp guides explaining how the pros do it, then know this. By having 3 enemies focusing on you, that's a large chunk of the enemy team that is being highly ineffective. Stalling is just as important a tactic as killing. If you can slow down the rate at which an enemy is gaining points, then you are doing a lot for your team. No skill-based pvp system should make it that you are guarunteed kills in a 1v3 scenario. Or even a 1v1.

I did watch it and it's obvious they arent anywhere near his skill level. Of course these things will happen when people are still new to the game. If there was no downed mechanic he would have killed all 3 and end up at around 50% hp.

  aesperus

Elite Member

Joined: 1/04/05
Posts: 4745

7/25/12 9:42:38 PM#16
Originally posted by otinanai123

I did watch it and it's obvious they arent anywhere near his skill level. Of course these things will happen when people are still new to the game. If there was no downed mechanic he would have killed all 3 and end up at around 50% hp.

Which brings me back to the point of, why (in a skill based game) should 1 player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?

And again, they're not killing newbs in his videos. In most of their videos they're fighting against some pretty well known guilds. They have vids of them fighting against dev teams, legacy, all kinds of well known & established guilds. It's not to say that they aren't skilled, because they are definitely one of the better sPvP guilds I've seen, but to imply that they are just killing non-pvp oriented players in their vids is a bit missinformed.

Without the downed mechanic it's really tough to say where he would've ended up HP wise, because HP in this game is constantly fluxtuating up and down. It's all a balancing act. Keep in mind that he also rallied twice in that video, so he would've actually lost that 1v3 if there was no downed mechanic, because he was getting focus fired pretty hard.

- Again, the downed mechanic doesn't make it impossible to do 1v3s (which is what was stated in the OP), and I've linked 2 videos showing it. They have more videos of them winning 1v3s against other guilds if you want to look through them. Team Legacy has some as well. Yes, it's very difficult to win a 1v3, and much less likely with evenly skilled players, but it's not impossible. In a skill based game, you shouldn't have a guarunteed kill, ever. That's what makes it skill based.

  otinanai123

Novice Member

Joined: 7/18/10
Posts: 272

 
OP  7/25/12 10:23:48 PM#17
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by otinanai123

I did watch it and it's obvious they arent anywhere near his skill level. Of course these things will happen when people are still new to the game. If there was no downed mechanic he would have killed all 3 and end up at around 50% hp.

Which brings me back to the point of, why (in a skill based game) should 1 player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?

And again, they're not killing newbs in his videos. In most of their videos they're fighting against some pretty well known guilds. They have vids of them fighting against dev teams, legacy, all kinds of well known & established guilds. It's not to say that they aren't skilled, because they are definitely one of the better sPvP guilds I've seen, but to imply that they are just killing non-pvp oriented players in their vids is a bit missinformed.

Without the downed mechanic it's really tough to say where he would've ended up HP wise, because HP in this game is constantly fluxtuating up and down. It's all a balancing act. Keep in mind that he also rallied twice in that video, so he would've actually lost that 1v3 if there was no downed mechanic, because he was getting focus fired pretty hard.

- Again, the downed mechanic doesn't make it impossible to do 1v3s (which is what was stated in the OP), and I've linked 2 videos showing it. They have more videos of them winning 1v3s against other guilds if you want to look through them. Team Legacy has some as well. Yes, it's very difficult to win a 1v3, and much less likely with evenly skilled players, but it's not impossible. In a skill based game, you shouldn't have a guarunteed kill, ever. That's what makes it skill based.

The video you posted actually proves my point. The 3 players are either bad or played really badly in that fight. Where was the cc? where was the stability?  If there was no downed mechanic he would have beaten them much much easier. The downed mechanic allowed the less skilled players to actually almost kill him (he was lucky one player was almost dead when they downed him)

  Magnnarot

Apprentice Member

Joined: 12/28/08
Posts: 50

7/25/12 10:39:21 PM#18
Originally posted by otinanai123
Originally posted by aesperus
Originally posted by otinanai123

I did watch it and it's obvious they arent anywhere near his skill level. Of course these things will happen when people are still new to the game. If there was no downed mechanic he would have killed all 3 and end up at around 50% hp.

Which brings me back to the point of, why (in a skill based game) should 1 player be able to win against 3 equally skilled players?

And again, they're not killing newbs in his videos. In most of their videos they're fighting against some pretty well known guilds. They have vids of them fighting against dev teams, legacy, all kinds of well known & established guilds. It's not to say that they aren't skilled, because they are definitely one of the better sPvP guilds I've seen, but to imply that they are just killing non-pvp oriented players in their vids is a bit missinformed.

Without the downed mechanic it's really tough to say where he would've ended up HP wise, because HP in this game is constantly fluxtuating up and down. It's all a balancing act. Keep in mind that he also rallied twice in that video, so he would've actually lost that 1v3 if there was no downed mechanic, because he was getting focus fired pretty hard.

- Again, the downed mechanic doesn't make it impossible to do 1v3s (which is what was stated in the OP), and I've linked 2 videos showing it. They have more videos of them winning 1v3s against other guilds if you want to look through them. Team Legacy has some as well. Yes, it's very difficult to win a 1v3, and much less likely with evenly skilled players, but it's not impossible. In a skill based game, you shouldn't have a guarunteed kill, ever. That's what makes it skill based.

The video you posted actually proves my point. The 3 players are either bad or played really badly in that fight. Where was the cc? where was the stability?  If there was no downed mechanic he would have beaten them much much easier. The downed mechanic allowed the less skilled players to actually almost kill him (he was lucky one player was almost dead when they downed him)

If you play properly the bad players actually become EXTRA life for you, all you gotta do is leave them laying around with low life prior to stomping, you finish them when you are downed and there you go back up with 50% life (or around that).

CCs seemed to be really substantial, only having been stunlocked like 2 or three times, all you need to do is time the dodge against the correct animations (and even if you fail the punish isnt TOO big ~2-3 secs stun most of the time), having a stun breaker and a way to dispell conditions such as immobilize/cripple/chill helps a lot.

All in all the review was good, but I feeld like both sPvP and WvW issues are way too subjective (the downed state being the main issue I have with the review) or has not seen enough gameplay (in WvW the most important part is supply, all you need to take a supply camp are around 2-5 people. Once the meta is set people will start realizing that zergs have their place, but in organized combat defending and besieging keeps/castles, if you simply run around in one big zerg the other faction is bound to take your land because you have no defensive force stationed back.

  xalvi

Novice Member

Joined: 12/17/10
Posts: 343

7/25/12 10:54:58 PM#19

Nice review.

I can't comment for WvW because im saving it for launch, seeing that you put it 3/10 is interesting. But i did do sPVP and i fully understand the downed state situation. It ruins pvp for me as well as other (i seen so much complaints on the gw2 beta forums) and ill agree it should be put only for pve. Hopefully theey will take it out for everyones sake, i too had 2v1/3v1 and killed the person only yet to find he is just coming back while i can't do anything but to keep myself alive. 

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1300

7/25/12 11:01:01 PM#20

good review and i can agree with most of it . I would rate World vs World a 5/10 myself it has the feel of DAOC but is missing the key features like you say. There will probably come a glory system with titles and abilites later on but if it stays in its current state ill be interested to see what comments are like when your 80 and have no incentive to world vs world unless your grinding out extra skillpoints for the legendary weapons in the forge. World vs World is great and shiny right now to a lot of people but already three beta events in and its feeling like the same ol same ol to myself . Not saying its bad as its still fun but once people hit 80 Im willing to bet they roll an alt or get bored of world vs world fast.

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