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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » WvW is DAoC's RvR without realm points/ranks

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104 posts found
  Anthur

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 616

7/25/12 8:11:05 AM#81

There was no Darkness Falls nor Realm Ranks when DAoC released. Still many people like me enjoyed RvR without those "features".

RvR evolved over the years and not always for the better. And it also had serious flaws (buff bots, cross realm etc).

Many DAoC vets in this threads sound like SWG vets. You can't let loose and try something else, can you ? Anyway, whatever pleases you. ;)

The current WvW in GW2 is a good start and fun to play. I am curious how it will develop over time.

  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

7/25/12 8:15:20 AM#82
Originally posted by MMOExposed

 

Can you give an example of a realm ability and how it work?

Here's a list of realm abilities and what they do.

http://darkageofcamelot.com/content/realm-abilities

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  Ice-Queen

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 2430

"Always borrow money from a pessimist. They won't expect it back."

7/25/12 8:18:15 AM#83

I loved, loved, loved DAOC in it's early years before the new frontiers and trials of atlantis. The rvr was epic and ongoing no matter what time of day it was. BUT....there's one thing I will not ever miss from DAOC....Having to have a buffbot to compete...omg, I hated having to have another account just for one character as a buffbot.

What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot

  User Deleted
7/25/12 8:18:21 AM#84
Originally posted by rygard49
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by rygard49

I'm hoping it resembles the RvR experience from DAoC (which I doubt due to no 8v8 roaming), but without RRs and alternate advancement skills as a reward it seems like a very hollow replica. The only bonus for winning is a buff for your realm. I don't really see the point in that.

 

 

so suprised how many can't see "fun" as a reasonable reason to pvp.. i played fps games for years for no other reason but that.  Played street fighter, tekken, and so many others just for the fact it was fun and I wanted to get better. If the design of combat and maps are fun to me that's all the incentive I need

But fun is subjective, right? To me it's fun if there's some type of advancement built in. Do you have fun leveling up? I sure do. I love the idea of making my character more powerful. The same applies in a PvP situation. I want to feel like I'm building to something, not just spinning my wheels. That's why I play RPGs and MMORPGs more often than I play RTS or most FPS games.

So I'm glad that you'll be having fun with this type of model, but don't try to make me seem 'unreasonable' because my idea of fun is different from yours.

It is, but the vast majority of MMOs at the moment already offer what you want. Gear based progression PvP.

What the genre is lacking, is a true MMO like GW2 which is not gear dependant, and relies on skill and strategy.

Will this make everyone happy? No. But there are already plenty of games out there for them to feel good about themselves with an innate advantage over 'noobs'.

So I am not going to tell you that you have to like what GW2 offers, but you should appreciate that the genre needs a non- gear based MMO with balanced PvP more than it needs another gear treadmill game with unbalanced PvP.

  Leucent

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/24/04
Posts: 2452

7/25/12 8:18:51 AM#85
Originally posted by Anthur

There was no Darkness Falls nor Realm Ranks when DAoC released. Still many people like me enjoyed RvR without those "features".

RvR evolved over the years and not always for the better. And it also had serious flaws (buff bots, cross realm etc).

Many DAoC vets in this threads sound like SWG vets. You can't let loose and try something else, can you ? Anyway, whatever pleases you. ;)

The current WvW in GW2 is a good start and fun to play. I am curious how it will develop over time.

Thats just it. I m one of the biggest fans of DAOC, and I can fully admit it s faults. I can also remeber, back in the days without RRs how I thought it was actually better and just plain fun. WvW isn t perfect, but it s a damn good alternative, and if people can t see the potential for what they could possibly add, and we know they ll add to it, they re blind.

It s just fun, and thats all that matters, just like DAOC RvR was in it s early days.

  Paragus1

Highlighted Blogger

Joined: 6/29/06
Posts: 1748

Co-Leader of Inquisition
www.inqguild.net

7/25/12 8:51:44 AM#86

The lack of some sort of PvP reward is a legitimate gripe.  While a lot of people don't care, it will be important to many others to have a sense of PvP progression in some form to keep them playing over the long term.   Even if it's not what DAOC had, there should be something IMO.  

  Silverbarr

Advanced Member

Joined: 12/23/07
Posts: 323

7/25/12 9:02:14 AM#87

I'd settle for WvW-based titles.

 

Those would be unique and give a sense of progression I guess, though as with many other I'm really not bothered at all.

 

M

"Regard your soldiers as your children, and they will follow you into the deepest valleys. Look on them as your own beloved sons, and they will stand by you even unto death!"
- Sun Tzu, the Art of War

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  Bridger

Novice Member

Joined: 10/06/11
Posts: 77

7/25/12 9:30:42 AM#88
Originally posted by Paragus1

The lack of some sort of PvP reward is a legitimate gripe.  While a lot of people don't care, it will be important to many others to have a sense of PvP progression in some form to keep them playing over the long term.   Even if it's not what DAOC had, there should be something IMO.  

What progression do you get in Counter-Strike?  Simple: If you apply yourself, you'll get better at the game.  That's real progression.  That's what all progression should be, it should be internal, not given to you on a platter.

  sonicbrew

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 518

7/25/12 9:31:45 AM#89
Originally posted by Tayah

I think it's enough for me. It's close to DAOC early years. Before Trials of Atlantis and the New Frontiers the games  RvR was epic. I get the same feeling from GW2 WvsWvsW. Now if they'd make a Darkness Falls dungeons I'd be set.

+10!!!!!!

“Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.” ~ Italian proverb

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

7/25/12 9:43:16 AM#90
It's also minus the true rivalry
Minus the scale
And minus being THE focus of the game.

WvW is the most fun mmo pvp in a long while, but its not upto the standards of daoc (or planetside)
  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1284

7/25/12 12:37:58 PM#91

see we really need to keep this thread going even if you do not agree with adding in pvp rewards through realm ranks or another form and get Anet reading it. Which btw does happen they do read other forums. I think if done right anyone can agree here it would add value to the world vs world and not hurt it in anyway. People have fun in different ways some enjoy just being out in the WvW zone killing people only . Myself i enjoy zerge busting but I also really miss thoose little purple Arpees above my head when i killed or took keeps .

Yes DAOC had its issues with some of the game but mythic is on a skeleton crew for years so what exactly do you expect? Yes TOA was a dealbreaker for a lot of players and some quit over it but when its all said and done they did come up with the best pvp experience for a lot of players. All i would really enjoy seeing added later on is that world vs world gets the same love and attention as the regular small pvp matchups and pve. Adding on the existing system is what will make it great , not limiting the features just to exp and karma. Heck by the end of this event i was running around with mostly masterwork gear and weapon just from the level 15 karma vendor in WvW. So karma is great for just getting the gear you need to level up through WvW but in the end you just end up with a ton of extra and it still doesnt take the place of a little progression with some cool ability unlocks along the way.

The way I see it , any new abilites added with some sort of realm system would only continue to add diversity to characters in world vs world. Tons of players would love to see less siege weapons or ways to bypass them entirely. Some love siege and just blowing up walls all day long. To each their own but there is some nice ways to expand on player styles with a realm system in place also. Like i said i do not expect to see any of this at release , but if we end up a few months down the road with neglected WvW yet a bunch of new pve content then I wont be supporting Anet myself anymore because i think that would offend a good portion of the fans. They sold part of the game on the pretense of DAOC , so lets stay faithful to the IP and work on making World vs World better.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

7/25/12 12:50:42 PM#92
The one thing that would instantly make it better.

Give me the option to display my name to enemy players

I can't see the game having the longevity of daoc because I can't build rivalry. I understand why arenanet went with annominity, fine let the wall flowers have it, but me I want to get picked on, I want enemies to go "that's that bastard, let's get him"
  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

7/25/12 12:53:20 PM#93
Daoc progression wasnt like wow clone progression. It had hard and soft stat caps and it had a much flatter gear curve. Also you could craft yourself a 95% good set of gear.

That said keeping gear out of pvp I approve of.
  niceguy3978

Elite Member

Joined: 6/14/06
Posts: 1982

7/25/12 12:57:12 PM#94

Not only is it DAOC's RvR without realm points/ranks, but also without the persistance.  Admittedly, my memory could be foggy but I don't think RvR reset on a regular basis the way WvWvW does.  Though, I understand why Anet is doing it, it is a fairly big difference to me.

  ShakyMo

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/21/11
Posts: 7246

7/25/12 1:01:31 PM#95
Yes, I get shuffling the servers IF the match ups are severely unbalanced. But... if the match ups are pretty balanced why mess with them, why have a mandatory 2 week reset? Surely its better to let nice long standing rivalries develop and keep the server reshuffle for emergency use.
  Mothanos

Elite Member

Joined: 10/20/10
Posts: 1815

7/25/12 1:02:30 PM#96

I think people need to understand that the game is like a little baby atm, it needs to grow alot to become like DAoC.

Still it feels good, better then any previous mmo so far that promised WvW pvp.

Give Anet the time to develop GW2 as they are heading in the right direction for sure.

http://speedtest.net/result/2112016336.png

  Grunties

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 871

7/25/12 1:27:40 PM#97
Originally posted by cronius77

 I think if done right anyone can agree here it would add value to the world vs world and not hurt it in anyway. People have fun in different ways some enjoy just being out in the WvW zone killing people only . Myself i enjoy zerge busting but I also really miss thoose little purple Arpees above my head when i killed or took keeps .

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this.  Changes like what you are proposing do not exist in a vacuum. Their existance affects all players, not just the ones that want it. Something like this goes in and all of a sudden, people stop RvRing to fight and start RvRing only to farm RP's. When they have a chanceto make the right decision to help their team, they instead make the wrong decision to abandon them in favor of doing something else that gives them a bigger rp payout. Where skill used to matter in victory, it becomes who has farmed RP's the longest.  It progresses to where everyone has to follow suit to compete with those that did it first. The whole atmosphere and focus changes from 'fun' to 'farming'. I think anyone can agree here that would subtract to the value of world vs world and hurt the game immensely.

The way I see it , any new abilites added with some sort of realm system would only continue to add diversity to characters in world vs world. Tons of players would love to see less siege weapons or ways to bypass them entirely. Some love siege and just blowing up walls all day long. To each their own but there is some nice ways to expand on player styles with a realm system in place also. Like i said i do not expect to see any of this at release , but if we end up a few months down the road with neglected WvW yet a bunch of new pve content then I wont be supporting Anet myself anymore because i think that would offend a good portion of the fans. They sold part of the game on the pretense of DAOC , so lets stay faithful to the IP and work on making World vs World better.

If you think characters need more diversity than they currently have, there are ways to add more diversity to characters without turning the game into an RP farming marathon, and to do it in a way that is accessible to all player types and not just the one you happen to be a part of. You make a suggestion for something that only benefits one playstyle (RP farmers) but say you wont support ANet if they add content that benefits another (PvErs), I think thats kind of hypocritical. 

Having seen a lot of competitive PvPers over the years I understand they have a tendency to ask the devs to implement stuff that allows them to get advantages over other players. The ego talking and all that. However I don't see it as good game design and is a slippery slope for skewing the gameplay in favor of a certain subset of players. And devs shouldn't play favorites in a game like this.

Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

  cronius77

Advanced Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1284

7/25/12 1:40:30 PM#98
Originally posted by Grunties
Originally posted by cronius77

 I think if done right anyone can agree here it would add value to the world vs world and not hurt it in anyway. People have fun in different ways some enjoy just being out in the WvW zone killing people only . Myself i enjoy zerge busting but I also really miss thoose little purple Arpees above my head when i killed or took keeps .

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with this.  Changes like what you are proposing do not exist in a vacuum. Their existance affects all players, not just the ones that want it. Something like this goes in and all of a sudden, people stop RvRing to fight and start RvRing only to farm RP's. When they have a chanceto make the right decision to help their team, they instead make the wrong decision to abandon them in favor of doing something else that gives them a bigger rp payout. Where skill used to matter in victory, it becomes who has farmed RP's the longest.  It progresses to where everyone has to follow suit to compete with those that did it first. The whole atmosphere and focus changes from 'fun' to 'farming'. I think anyone can agree here that would subtract to the value of world vs world and hurt the game immensely.

The way I see it , any new abilites added with some sort of realm system would only continue to add diversity to characters in world vs world. Tons of players would love to see less siege weapons or ways to bypass them entirely. Some love siege and just blowing up walls all day long. To each their own but there is some nice ways to expand on player styles with a realm system in place also. Like i said i do not expect to see any of this at release , but if we end up a few months down the road with neglected WvW yet a bunch of new pve content then I wont be supporting Anet myself anymore because i think that would offend a good portion of the fans. They sold part of the game on the pretense of DAOC , so lets stay faithful to the IP and work on making World vs World better.

If you think characters need more diversity than they currently have, there are ways to add more diversity to characters without turning the game into an RP farming marathon, and to do it in a way that is accessible to all player types and not just the one you happen to be a part of. You make a suggestion for something that only benefits one playstyle (RP farmers) but say you wont support ANet if they add content that benefits another (PvErs), I think thats kind of hypocritical. 

Having seen a lot of competitive PvPers over the years I understand they have a tendency to ask the devs to implement stuff that allows them to get advantages over other players. The ego talking and all that. However I don't see it as good game design and is a slippery slope for skewing the gameplay in favor of a certain subset of players. And devs shouldn't play favorites in a game like this.

though i agree with your points made i can also say like ive said from the beginning that fun is subjective. Regardless of the good of the realm myself and others will not be zerging and listening to some guy that wants to have us hit X keep all the time while they go to Y. We didnt play like that in DAOC nor WAR and a lot of the times because of our guild ostermark and then phoenix throne would end up benefiting from what we were doing because they would split up the order zerge  and have to eithe try and retake what we grabbed or go after the larger zerge groups. RP farming might be something for a select few players but im willing to bet you that is not the case for a lot of us wanting to progress our toons beyond just a simple EXP system. I had way to much karma and geared up when BE3 ended so all i was doing was farming exp. Some of us like to gank and not run with a zerge and that fits our playstyle like other zerging guilds fits theirs etc. Its totally subjective , and only implimenting powerful abilites that give huge advantages would make people WvW less. Anet knows that and I have faith in at least one of the devs working on WvW.

The second part is subjective to both sides to your right but i do not think there is any diversity currently at all besides weapons and a couple of select builds. In fact you wont even get your first elite til level 30 anyways so all builds through mid game will be almost identical . So what makes me different then any other elementalist playing through level say 40? because i put a crit signet in my toolbar and they put an aoe? That is not diversity its on the fly skill swapping and any good player will be doing that in situations anyways. This is where realm abilites come into play for me and others. Its not a matter of Epeen stroking like you imply , its a matter of having the tools to do what fits my playstyle and being rewarded for not having to do what everyone else is doing . Casuals like hardcore will still earn realm points , exp , and karma it changes nothing in the long run and does not lead to a power gap. If realm abilites are done properly and not done stupid with OP abilites then it can turn your toon into what you want it to be and I play a different role then the next man. Right now you just have weapons doing that and that leaves very little diversity. You should go to the offical forums and read up on some of the builds and see what im talking about. Right now in its current form as an elementalist you would be stupid not to put two certain signets into your slots because you are gaining 100% crit and hitting for over 4k on your aoes. That right now is about the only true dps build for an ele and it fits what im saying to a tee, that right now there is no workign diversity.

  Koroshiya

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/18/05
Posts: 221

Live with love, and love will find you.

7/25/12 1:51:31 PM#99
Originally posted by Leucent
Originally posted by otinanai123
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by rygard49

I'm hoping it resembles the RvR experience from DAoC (which I doubt due to no 8v8 roaming), but without RRs and alternate advancement skills as a reward it seems like a very hollow replica. The only bonus for winning is a buff for your realm. I don't really see the point in that.

 

 

so suprised how many can't see "fun" as a reasonable reason to pvp.. i played fps games for years for no other reason but that.  Played street fighter, tekken, and so many others just for the fact it was fun and I wanted to get better. If the design of combat and maps are fun to me that's all the incentive I need

Did you play daoc? Did you have fun taking keeps? Would you have fun taking keeps if they didn't award rps? How many weeks/months do you think you could do this before getting bored?

I played DAOC from release till a few months ago. I actually have re subbed due to Relic Raid changes etc. (Alot of fun btw) I can honestly say I could care less about rps, rank, abilities etc. I know that AN will add more to it, and can guarentee, yes you can quote me on it, there will be a DF type dungeon, in the near future. I had alot more fun taking keeps, relics etc, with my guild/alliance then I did worrying about some stupid rps etc.

Exactly!

 

Long time player of DAoC, 5 accounts, 15 characters all dressed in top end templates with RR6-12 on all 3 different realms.

 

As pretty much a DAoC only player who hated every other mmo after EQ with a passion, this game was a breathe of fresh air, I could actually do what I want with out having to grind to have fun.  DAoC was my lifes blood for years, I wasn't even interested in GW2 until I got in this last weekend and went out to Wv3.

I got the same blood rush I got when doing seige in DAoC, only this time I wasn't focused on my RR progresison more then anything else, and I think thats what I like most about GW2 while playing the last thing I cared about was my level, all I did was roam around enjoy the game and by the end of the weekend I was 25.

 

Also, people please stop comparing games that aren't even out yet in content to games that have been out for years.  Comapre it to the OG EQ on Launch, DAoC on launch, WoW on launch, whatever game AT launch.  Sure, the SYSTEMS should be there from previous games, but you can't shove 10 years of content into a game that is releasing in less then a month just to be on par with titles that have been around longer then some of you have been able to walk.

“The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness” – Bob Marley

  Grunties

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/07
Posts: 871

7/25/12 1:57:51 PM#100

Well I  can agree with your points that there is room for more diversity, and with the degrees of customization being unlocked at certain level threshholds, there will be gaps in the earlier game where there is less distinction between players. Though we may disagree on how to address that.

I think of this issue in terms of how basic experience gain is set up. There was a time in mmos when you could only get xp through pve and questing. And because levels were needed by everyone, it was skewed in favor of pve'ers and unfairly biased against pvp'ers, and forced them to go through pve content they werent interested in to advance.  Then someone was smart enough to add experience gain to pvp as well, and suddenly every playstyle could play how they wanted and still advance. This was a great change to the genre. GW2 obviously followed this design for all of its 'xp and xp-like attributes', karma and such.

An RP system is like a step back to that old system. XP and karma can be earned by everyone regardless of play style, but RP can only be used by those who spend the most time in RvR. I love RvR, its where I spend the most time dont get me wrong, it just rubs me the wrong way to see it get exclusive benefits, especially when great pains were taken to make sure other playstyles had their exclusive benefits removed.

But like I said, I very much agree with the diversity concern. Now if they had more specializations for example that could be purchased with karma (which every playstyle earns), that could provide a variety of benefits across pve, pvp, and crafting (player choice how to invest obviously), I could definitely get behind that.

Waiting for: A skill-based MMO with Freedom and Consequence.
Woe to thee, the pierce-ed.

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