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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » "Unresponsive" combat

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59 posts found
  Harttz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/12
Posts: 92

7/24/12 4:35:17 PM#21

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

  Tonin109

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/15/12
Posts: 202

Our Opinion May Differ

7/24/12 4:36:31 PM#22
Originally posted by ZenonSeth
Originally posted by Tonin109
Originally posted by ZenonSeth
Originally posted by Tonin109

[snip]

for me instant cast = 0 s the chance to hit someone is 100% , tell me how is it possible to dogde something with a casting time of 0s

for example in GW1 stance has instant cast(so 0s) if you apply this kind of  skill/spell to your opponement its instant hit for me

Here's how a lot of games work:

  1. Press a button to start casting - the casting bar pops up, displaying your progress
  2. Casting bar completes - your 'character' fires a spell (or shot, or whatever)
  3. Projectile flies towards target
  4. Projectile hits target
Instant cast refers to how long it takes for the casting bar to complete - in this case it would be instantaneus, probably without even showing a casting bar. (meaning the duration of step 1 is instant - press button, casting is finished)
However, in order for something to be 100% hit, what you need is that step 3 - projectile flies towards target - to be instantenous - spell hits target immidiately after casting is finished. 
 
There are 4 possible combinations:
Some casting time + Some spell travel time to target
No casting time + Some spell travel time to target
Some casting time + No spell travel time to target
No casting time + No spell travel time to target
 
Only the last 2 are what anyone would consider 100% hit. Regarless of whether there's casting time involved, it's only the time it takes for the spell to hit your target that determines whether its 100% hit or not.
That's about as clear as I can make this, hopefully it makes sense.

i completly understand what you mean

in my head instant cast means "no casting time+ no spell travel time to target"

i had the example of the stance in GW1 but from what you explain i understand very well the 3 other possibilities

  nezbel

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/20/08
Posts: 46

7/24/12 4:37:03 PM#23

In the previous betas I did have an issue with combat. It didn't have a great feel or impact and dodging seemed pretty useless really. This last weekend felt completely different however. Things did feel more responsive and several attacks that needed it felt like they had more impact and dodging really gave the bit of breathing room you'd think it would give you.

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  7/24/12 4:39:51 PM#24
Originally posted by colddog04

I don't think it's unresponsive. I think that compared to WoW, it is less responsive. And I think that is what the players that are complaining are comparing it to. Really, two things cause this in my opinion.

 

The camera has a smoothing effect on it. That annoys me to all hell. The camera in general needs work. I was hoping they would have had it done by BWE3, but they didn't.

 

The animations slide around a bit at times. The animations are great in my opinion for what they are trying to accomplish - a game where you can move and still cast almost every skill in the game. But sometimes it does feel a bit floaty and GW2 could use some work in this department.

 

Yeah I've heard that complaint as well but that's really a separate issue from what people are referring to when they say combat in GW2 is unresponsive.  At least that's the impression I get.  Perhaps the animation sliding is related, but I think primarily they are used to that instant gratification feeling in WoW when they press a key and get the damage feedback right away rather than having to wait for the blow to actually connect.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  7/24/12 4:45:38 PM#25
Originally posted by Harttz

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

I think what you're experiencing is skill queuing.  In GW2 when you press a skill while another one is executing, it goes into a queue and you see a flashing box around it.  Once the first skill finishes, the next one in queue starts.  However, I did notice there were times when I'd hit a skill while one was in progress and it didn't queue (no flashing box) so I'd have to press it a 2nd time.  That sort of thing I'm assuming is a bug because it was inconsistent.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

7/24/12 4:45:56 PM#26

Part of it is movement too.

 

Most people were complaining about camera, which is very valid.

There's accelleration when moving the camera, meaning it's "responsive" but it's not fluid at all.

  DaezAster

Novice Member

Joined: 6/18/12
Posts: 789

7/24/12 4:48:58 PM#27

i find the game responsive and smooth in a way I would equate to a console action game and not an rpg let alone a mmo. I never was into the wow art style, didn't play so I can't speak toward any comparison there but it sounds a bit grasping for straws envoking responsiveness of the combat or movement. I also play with a controller and the auto attack disabled so my experience may be different to others but I love the way the game plays at it's core mechanics and responsiveness level. I'm sure some are genuinely griping but many are just that person you don't invite to the movies because they like to point out all the unrealistic moments and ruin it for everyone else.

  silvermember

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 489

7/24/12 4:49:32 PM#28
Originally posted by Harttz

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

That is because you were button mashing. If you button mash certain skills it puts them on queue and will go off after the current skill animation is complete. Certain skill allows you to chain multiple skills but you have to know which skills that allow that.

  Harttz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/12
Posts: 92

7/24/12 4:50:43 PM#29
Originally posted by Sixpax
Originally posted by Harttz

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

I think what you're experiencing is skill queuing.  In GW2 when you press a skill while another one is executing, it goes into a queue and you see a flashing box around it.  Once the first skill finishes, the next one in queue starts.  However, I did notice there were times when I'd hit a skill while one was in progress and it didn't queue (no flashing box) so I'd have to press it a 2nd time.  That sort of thing I'm assuming is a bug because it was inconsistent.

Yeah I think it was the queueing but it was just annoying that I had to wait to execute a timing based major attack until my spammy "auto-attack" completed its animation. There were times when the delay between hitting the key for the big ability and when it actually executed resulted in me missing the target. 

There also seemed to be an ability that got interrupted if I moved when it was "casting" but with the queueing system it was very difficult to tell when it was the ability being animated rather than my other abilities. I guess it is probably just something you have to get used to by playing more but it wasn't very intuitive like most games for me.

  Harttz

Novice Member

Joined: 6/17/12
Posts: 92

7/24/12 4:53:51 PM#30
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by Harttz

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

That is because you were button mashing. If you button mash certain skills it puts them on queue and will go off after the current skill animation is complete. Certain skill allows you to chain multiple skills but you have to know which skills that allow that.

I fully recognize that I was button-mashing but I think the button-mashing was the effect of the system rather than the cause of the issues I had. I am not a button-masher by nature and I only hit buttons multiple times playing GW2 because I could glance at the skill bar and see that they hadn't blown their cd after I hit them.

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  7/24/12 4:56:51 PM#31
Originally posted by DaezAster

i find the game responsive and smooth in a way I would equate to a console action game and not an rpg let alone a mmo. I never was into the wow art style, didn't play so I can't speak toward any comparison there but it sounds a bit grasping for straws envoking responsiveness of the combat or movement. I also play with a controller and the auto attack disabled so my experience may be different to others but I love the way the game plays at it's core mechanics and responsiveness level. I'm sure some are genuinely griping but many are just that person you don't invite to the movies because they like to point out all the unrealistic moments and ruin it for everyone else.

I'd be curious to find out from the people who are getting the feeling of unresponsive combat if they are actively playing another (GCD-based) MMO because when I first played GW2 during BWE1 I hadn't touched another MMO for a few months so I probably lost any muscle memory I had previously playing one.  GW2 combat felt very responsive right from the get-go for me, but I wonder if it's just a matter of getting used to it for those who do have an issue.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  D_shandril

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/19/04
Posts: 116

7/24/12 4:57:39 PM#32
Originally posted by Sixpax
Originally posted by D_shandril
Originally posted by BadSpock

It's like, of course I'm not going to see the damage numbers and be able to perform a second action until my first action completes! 

 

Actually, in some case you can perform multiple action without waiting for the other action to finish. For example with the elementalist I could use lighting strike at the same time that the character was channelling arc lightning witch is the auto attack without interrupting that attack. As for the area of effect spell usually they have a delay before the effect happen but they do not lock you in animation or prevent you from casting something else right away and you can start casting other spell while the animation of the previous spell is playing itself.

In other case you can perfom an other attack while the first is playing itself but it will cancel the first one. So you basicly never wait for thing to happen before  being able to do something else.

Are you positive about that?  That wasn't my experience at all.  Even though skill #1 was set on auto attack that just means it fires without you having to hit the button, not that it fires in the background.  I know for sure while playing guardian that the #1 skill, which is a cycle of three different skills, the cycle would reset back to the first skill in the series if I started using some other skill because it would interrupt the cycle.

Here a video that show what i was taling about : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJc0kHUbxgc

but i think that it is only with the air attunement that you get that kind of instant skill usage  with the elementalist.

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  7/24/12 5:00:16 PM#33
Originally posted by Harttz
Originally posted by Sixpax
Originally posted by Harttz

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

I think what you're experiencing is skill queuing.  In GW2 when you press a skill while another one is executing, it goes into a queue and you see a flashing box around it.  Once the first skill finishes, the next one in queue starts.  However, I did notice there were times when I'd hit a skill while one was in progress and it didn't queue (no flashing box) so I'd have to press it a 2nd time.  That sort of thing I'm assuming is a bug because it was inconsistent.

Yeah I think it was the queueing but it was just annoying that I had to wait to execute a timing based major attack until my spammy "auto-attack" completed its animation. There were times when the delay between hitting the key for the big ability and when it actually executed resulted in me missing the target. 

There also seemed to be an ability that got interrupted if I moved when it was "casting" but with the queueing system it was very difficult to tell when it was the ability being animated rather than my other abilities. I guess it is probably just something you have to get used to by playing more but it wasn't very intuitive like most games for me.

If I'm not mistaken, you can turn off the auto-attack or even change it to another skill.  I believe you just right click on it to toggle it off/on for whatever skill you want (even saw one video where someone turned on auto for their heal, just for grins).  Turning it off might feel more natural to you.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  Eir_S

Elite Member

Joined: 8/07/11
Posts: 4527

GW2 socialist.

7/24/12 5:00:46 PM#34

I thought the combat was pretty damned decent all around.  In fact, I held WoW as the standard for responsiveness and smoothness of gameplay for years and hated myself for it, but there you go.... and GW2 didn't disappoint.  I still have some framerate issues due to the lack of optimization of the game (I hope) but that has nothing to do with the way the game plays for the majority of people.  The OP has a good point.  People want something different but when something different comes along, they complain it's not similar enough to the last thing they liked.

  silvermember

Novice Member

Joined: 3/02/12
Posts: 489

7/24/12 5:03:23 PM#35
Originally posted by Harttz
Originally posted by silvermember
Originally posted by Harttz

For me, as a new player of GW2, the problem came with skills not firing when I pressed them which caused the game to feel unresponsive. I picked up a two-handed hammer on the guardian I was trying and I had this problem a lot. The #1 skill seemed to basically be an auto-attack while the #2 skill was a big overhead smash. If I hit 2 it wouldn't actually fire until after I finished the current swing from my "auto-attack" (skill #1). In an effort to figure out why I wasn't smashing I would look at my bar to discover that the #2 ability wasn't on cd so it hadn't fired. I would then hit it again, and again, and again until it fired. Maybe the system is working as intended but I just didn't find it very enjoyable.

That is because you were button mashing. If you button mash certain skills it puts them on queue and will go off after the current skill animation is complete. Certain skill allows you to chain multiple skills but you have to know which skills that allow that.

I fully recognize that I was button-mashing but I think the button-mashing was the effect of the system rather than the cause of the issues I had. I am not a button-masher by nature and I only hit buttons multiple times playing GW2 because I could glance at the skill bar and see that they hadn't blown their cd after I hit them.

I might be wrong but the reason why you were buttong mashing is because you probably played a game that had global cold down and never realized you were a button masher until you played gw2.  If you are trying to play the game like GoW or DMC, it wont go as well. You have to know when to use your skill at the proper time.

The developers once consider removing skill queuing and the game was far worst without it.

  Sixpax

Novice Member

Joined: 7/28/05
Posts: 602

 
OP  7/24/12 5:09:20 PM#36
Originally posted by D_shandril
Originally posted by Sixpax
Originally posted by D_shandril
Originally posted by BadSpock

It's like, of course I'm not going to see the damage numbers and be able to perform a second action until my first action completes! 

 

Actually, in some case you can perform multiple action without waiting for the other action to finish. For example with the elementalist I could use lighting strike at the same time that the character was channelling arc lightning witch is the auto attack without interrupting that attack. As for the area of effect spell usually they have a delay before the effect happen but they do not lock you in animation or prevent you from casting something else right away and you can start casting other spell while the animation of the previous spell is playing itself.

In other case you can perfom an other attack while the first is playing itself but it will cancel the first one. So you basicly never wait for thing to happen before  being able to do something else.

Are you positive about that?  That wasn't my experience at all.  Even though skill #1 was set on auto attack that just means it fires without you having to hit the button, not that it fires in the background.  I know for sure while playing guardian that the #1 skill, which is a cycle of three different skills, the cycle would reset back to the first skill in the series if I started using some other skill because it would interrupt the cycle.

Here a video that show what i was taling about : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJc0kHUbxgc

but i think that it is only with the air attunement that you get that kind of instant skill usage  with the elementalist.

Ah yeah, i see what you're talking about.  That wasn't my experience at all.  I wonder if that's unique to Elementalist or maybe it applies to channeled spells only.

MMO games would be pretty cool if it weren't for the people.

  fundayz

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 10/14/10
Posts: 471

7/24/12 5:44:06 PM#37

I am a rabid GW2 and I'll easily admit that the CAMERA and MOVEMENT responsiveness could be better. The skill activation itself is perfectly fine, but your character has a delay when changing directions and starting movement from still; in addition, there is is a delay between character rotation and camera rotation, leading people to feel that the game overall is unresponsive when it is not actually the case.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2446

7/24/12 6:35:06 PM#38
Originally posted by fundayz

I am a rabid GW2 and I'll easily admit that the CAMERA and MOVEMENT responsiveness could be better. The skill activation itself is perfectly fine, but your character has a delay when changing directions and starting movement from still; in addition, there is is a delay between character rotation and camera rotation, leading people to feel that the game overall is unresponsive when it is not actually the case.

You move straight away and stop straight away, but you see an animation speeding up and slowing down.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  MattVid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 407

7/24/12 6:54:57 PM#39

I don't see the issue and the complaint makes zero sense to me.

The fact that there are "quests" in the game where you have to basically instantly block and attack directed at you (with probably 300-500ms of response time required) shows that it is very responsive.

Complaining that a casted ability, or an ability with a travel time is "lack of responsivness" just shows complete ignorance for how the real world works.

If you throw a baseball at someone, it doesn't hit them before it hits ... you have to do the "animation" and let the ball travel towards the targets. If something else gets in the way, it will hit that in its path instead of your target.

Just because games like WoW or whatever are incredibly unrealistic doesn't mean it is a flaw of GW2.

  elocke

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 6/15/04
Posts: 4036

7/24/12 6:54:57 PM#40
Originally posted by Sixpax
Originally posted by DaezAster

i find the game responsive and smooth in a way I would equate to a console action game and not an rpg let alone a mmo. I never was into the wow art style, didn't play so I can't speak toward any comparison there but it sounds a bit grasping for straws envoking responsiveness of the combat or movement. I also play with a controller and the auto attack disabled so my experience may be different to others but I love the way the game plays at it's core mechanics and responsiveness level. I'm sure some are genuinely griping but many are just that person you don't invite to the movies because they like to point out all the unrealistic moments and ruin it for everyone else.

I'd be curious to find out from the people who are getting the feeling of unresponsive combat if they are actively playing another (GCD-based) MMO because when I first played GW2 during BWE1 I hadn't touched another MMO for a few months so I probably lost any muscle memory I had previously playing one.  GW2 combat felt very responsive right from the get-go for me, but I wonder if it's just a matter of getting used to it for those who do have an issue.

Funny you bring this up, I've only been playing TSW before this weekend and TSW has moving in combat, dodge and only a few skills to use at any one time.  I think it actually helped me get better at GW2 combat seeing as it is a bit similar.  GW2 feels more polished though and combat isn't tedious but fun, unlike TSW where it takes far too long to kill one mob.

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