Originally posted by cronius77

lol wow is all i can say about wow , how a great game during its time has turned into complete and utter trash of a dev crew. The last update they released with content was new heroics and dragon soul what 6 months ago? now the best they can do is account achievements and a stupid world event? What a seriously terrible dev team that even rivals warhammer for maintanance mode. Why in the hell do people continue to give these idiots their hard earned money and not get crap in return when there are tons of smaller companies out here that actually put peoples money to good use in development.

It was released in November of 2011.

All characters now take 30% less damage from other players.

People don't tend to be keen on investing eight years of there lives into a single game, just to quit.

That is why WoW still has the five million subs it has in NA, and the rest in the other territories. It isn't because the game has been evolving over time into a product that surpasses what it once was in terms of quality, not at all. Blizzard set the bar back on 04, and then somehow forgot how to even meet there own level of prior standards.

Logic, some people seem to have none.

I haven't seen anyone decide to try out WoW in over a year. All but a few players that I know have quit. The game is failing, and failing fast. Maybe the Asian market will keep it going but it is definately bleeding subs.

Originally posted by laserit

Funny thing is....

My kids dont even like to play anymore.

I dont know of one single person out of the 20 or so I still keep in contact from my old WoW guild that still plays or even thinks WoW is relevant.  They all play TSW, Tera (sadly), Diablo 3 (again sadly), or are waiting on GW2.

Originally posted by Isturi

Yeah ??? Some how I do believe this is WoW last leg they have to stand on. Or bearly standing for that matter.

Do you believe it is the overwhelming weight of their sub base or the overwehlming weight of the pile of money that is crushing their legs?

Last leg.. my ass....if every other mmo could be 1/10th as lucky to have WoW's 'broken' legs.

Not to bash WoW or Blizzard, but since I've been playing a different game that churns out quality content often and regularly, it's strange to see how little new, worthwhile content enters Azeroth. I never would have thought that Blizzard was slacking so badly until I saw how a game is run properly.

Blizzard's staff must be 10x the size of their next competitor, yet they just can't get stuff done like the non-300 pound gorillas.

Those that enjoy WoW, good for them. I just feel a bit bad for them, sticking with habit instead of moving on to quality (and that can be found in numerous other places).

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Yeah ??? Some how I do believe this is WoW last leg they have to stand on. Or bearly standing for that matter.

Do you believe it is the overwhelming weight of their sub base or the overwehlming weight of the pile of money that is crushing their legs?

Last leg.. my ass....if every other mmo could be 1/10th as lucky to have WoW's 'broken' legs.

Remind me of this question when WoW goes F2P from lvl 1-60 or should I dare say 1-70 or 80? It is heading that way maybe not soon but it will happen mark my words.

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Yeah ??? Some how I do believe this is WoW last leg they have to stand on. Or bearly standing for that matter.

Do you believe it is the overwhelming weight of their sub base or the overwehlming weight of the pile of money that is crushing their legs?

Last leg.. my ass....if every other mmo could be 1/10th as lucky to have WoW's 'broken' legs.

Remind me of this question when WoW goes F2P from lvl 1-60 or should I dare say 1-70 or 80? It is heading that way maybe not soon but it will happen mark my words.

If that happens, you will have to show me proof that it was directly tied to WoW 'failing' rather than simply changing its business model to fit the modern mmo pricing atmosphere.

With the what, 2 or 3 sub-based mmo's left, its hard to pin f2p on 'failure' anymore.

WoW has been on my comp since day 1, between my kids and I, we have characters on 6 or 7 servers, all servers have multitudes of ppl, each guild I have characters in have anywhere from 5 to 30 ppl on regardless of the time of day or night. Run into new players all the time as well as many who have been playing for years.

I like the game still, detest the general community though, run with chat turned of in the citys 90% of the time. Yes the game has changed but for me it remains fun, I am not the type of person that playes for hours and hours at a time, nor every day. so that may have something to do with why it stays fun.

And yes I have played every new game that comes out, and I often sub to other games along with WoW.

I know its kewl on these boards to hate on WoW, but reality is, WoW is in no danger of failing anytime soon.

On the original topic, I do not like the account wide achievment change, but I do like the looting change, and the war on theramore, I guess I will see if I enjoy that part when it comes out, but the sound of it is that it will be fun.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Yeah ??? Some how I do believe this is WoW last leg they have to stand on. Or bearly standing for that matter.

Do you believe it is the overwhelming weight of their sub base or the overwehlming weight of the pile of money that is crushing their legs?

Last leg.. my ass....if every other mmo could be 1/10th as lucky to have WoW's 'broken' legs.

Remind me of this question when WoW goes F2P from lvl 1-60 or should I dare say 1-70 or 80? It is heading that way maybe not soon but it will happen mark my words.

If that happens, you will have to show me proof that it was directly tied to WoW 'failing' rather than simply changing its business model to fit the modern mmo pricing atmosphere.

With the what, 2 or 3 sub-based mmo's left, its hard to pin f2p on 'failure' anymore.

One word: TOR or um wait guess that is three words? or is that 3 Abbreviations? lol idk

Having played most mmo's (still have to try the secret world) I still think WoW might be the best mmo available, only the lack of new content the last 6 months is completely crazy. I will wait till mists of Pandaria before writing WoW off completely tho :)

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Yeah ??? Some how I do believe this is WoW last leg they have to stand on. Or bearly standing for that matter.

Do you believe it is the overwhelming weight of their sub base or the overwehlming weight of the pile of money that is crushing their legs?

Last leg.. my ass....if every other mmo could be 1/10th as lucky to have WoW's 'broken' legs.

Remind me of this question when WoW goes F2P from lvl 1-60 or should I dare say 1-70 or 80? It is heading that way maybe not soon but it will happen mark my words.

If that happens, you will have to show me proof that it was directly tied to WoW 'failing' rather than simply changing its business model to fit the modern mmo pricing atmosphere.

With the what, 2 or 3 sub-based mmo's left, its hard to pin f2p on 'failure' anymore.

One word: TOR or um wait guess that is three words? or is that 3 Abbreviations? lol idk

Oh good you agree. TOR is a perfect example of how the sub model is outdated for the current oversaturation of mmo's on the market. I'm with you, TOR should have released f2p - but then again we may never have learned how outdated the sub model is.

And what about GW2 - the wave of the future....releasing f2p with cash shop. Just think how different the gaming universe would be if SWTOR did the same.

The industry learned something from TOR alright. When a market is oversaturated, even the smallest of annoyances are enough reason to stop paying for your game. There are so many others to choose from, why pay for this? Back in EQ days, we put up with much greater annoyances for longer periods because there was simply less to choose from in the market.

And let's look at those 'failed' sub games. AoC, LoTRO, DDO, DCUO, EQ, EQ2. They switched to f2p and it would be inaccurate to call them 'failed' games. It was the sub model that failed. Those are all vibrant games with healthy populations and continued development. Which couldn't be said for them prior to f2p (with the exception of maybe EQ/EQ2). 

The forumteers cried that the games were bad, horrid, a sign of a doomed industry and one of the seven horsemen of the apocolypse. Their dead servers and losses in subs and losing 50% of their subs on release were all proof the games were BAD!

But now their fine.  They haven't changed, they are the same games - they have the same zones, and quests and combat systems and crafting as before. They PLAY the same as before. But now they have healthy populations.

So is it that DDO failed? Is it that DCUO failed? Or is it that the sub model failed?  

I'll put it this way. If my choices were TOR, EQ2 and let's say, TERA; I'd be subbed to ToR, and probably for a long time. Fortunately, I have enough better choices out there that I too unsubbed to TOR - because I have better choices.

And get a clue. You can scream TOR failure all you want. But it is a pretty safe bet to say that 3X the number of people play it than whatever random mmo you are sub'ed too. So remember, more people still like TOR and are sub'd to it than most other 'healthy' sub based mmos. Which are what left now? WoW, Rift, Vangaurd (for like a couple more weeks), EVE, Tera ....what else? Other than WoW, ToR is STILL pulling more subs. Rift is just hoping for TOR's kind of 'failure' - and most toute Rift as a success story; it just doesn't make sense.

The Sub model is dead. It is dead because of oversaturation in the market.

The market is re-adjusting to current player patterns and that means F2P.

So, you can develop your opinion based upon what you read in the forums, or you can look at the way business actually works.

And I say this as a firmly and utterly disappointed person in everything that is SW: TOR. It is, imo, a horrible, horrible game. But there are somewhere around 1,000,000 people who disagree with me.

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Originally posted by Zorgo

Originally posted by Isturi

Yeah ??? Some how I do believe this is WoW last leg they have to stand on. Or bearly standing for that matter.

Do you believe it is the overwhelming weight of their sub base or the overwehlming weight of the pile of money that is crushing their legs?

Last leg.. my ass....if every other mmo could be 1/10th as lucky to have WoW's 'broken' legs.

Remind me of this question when WoW goes F2P from lvl 1-60 or should I dare say 1-70 or 80? It is heading that way maybe not soon but it will happen mark my words.

If that happens, you will have to show me proof that it was directly tied to WoW 'failing' rather than simply changing its business model to fit the modern mmo pricing atmosphere.

With the what, 2 or 3 sub-based mmo's left, its hard to pin f2p on 'failure' anymore.

One word: TOR or um wait guess that is three words? or is that 3 Abbreviations? lol idk

 

And what about GW2 - Huh? GW had this format for the longest time so er um maybe dont fix it since it not broke?

The industry learned something from TOR alright. Yeah TY only reason Im not subbing right now is lack of cash I love TOR fantastic example.

And let's look at those 'failed' sub games. People still play so called Falied games? What is the defention of fail anyways?

The forumteers cried that the games were bad, horrid, a sign of a doomed industry and one of the seven horsemen of the apocolypse. Their dead servers and losses in subs and losing 50% of their subs on release were all proof the games were BAD! = Eastern games. Thank you good point.

 

But now their fine.  They haven't changed, they are the same games - they have the same zones, and quests and combat systems and crafting as before. They PLAY the same as before. But now they have healthy populations. Wow ok if you enjoy grinding after 6 years and that how long I have played WoW I keeped on hanging on to that game after Lich xpac thinking it has got to get beter well guess what it did not. Not with Cata and defently not with Panda you can only sugar coat a plasic candy cane that is over 10 years old and it will never taste like it was real. Let me ask you this do you still play bord games or in general how many people compared to ten years ago will still sit down and play Monoply? 20 years ago? (everquest) etc well you get the point time a changing.

So is it that DDO failed? Is it that DCUO failed? Or is it that the sub model failed?  IDK? did they im not a expert on games that fail but you seem to be.

I love TOR like I stated lack of cash but hey what ever floats your boat. - because I have better choices.

And get a clue. You can scream TOR failure all you want. Again what dose it mean to make a MMO fail? Again IDK maybe the fact that people want to play a game like WoW and not open their eyes and see it is the same game but it plays to the beat of a diffrent drummer. Player to npc collect me 10 rats and I will give you a upgrade armor and 10 pieces of silver. Oh Hey right on lets rince and repeat at higher lvls man woot!!! oh hey but WoW has a new xpac title it wont be the same or will it?

The Sub model is dead. - Says Who? do you have expert reports that you can link? Sub model is perfect it is the ecomony that is dead hence force why would a person spend what use to be pocket change they now need it for gas to go to work.

The market is re-adjusting to current player patterns and that means F2P. = Gold Trolls I can see the chat in general light up now on all MMO's

So, you can develop your opinion based upon what you read in the forums, Huh? No I think there for I am.

And I say this as a firmly and utterly disappointed person in everything that is SW: TOR. It is, imo, a horrible, horrible game. But there are somewhere around 1,000,000 people who disagree with me. - To each thier own. WoW is not horible It is just on one leg bearly. Why as a matter of Fact I do believe that Runescape is the MMO king I mean talking numbes that is what is it 200 million subs and oh wait it is F2P hey hmm wow go figure. Runescape  has been for ahwile now. So I am not even sure why you want to defend the 2end biggest MMO? Well cudos to you for sticking up and defending your game of choice.

 

 

Color chat all that is in yellow is original thought from Zergo everything else is me. Yes I am having fun with this.

Been playing WoW since Feb '06. BC was a great addition when it hit. Wrath was good. Then Blizz was "aquired" by Activision and it's been all downhill from there. In fact, Wrath might have been better if Activision had let them do it right. Cata, even though I had high hopes for it, sucked in terms of gameplay. Activision is basically pushing WoW down hard so that it can go FTP one day and have anyone grab it and faceroll the keyboard thru the whole thing.

 Look at the talent system. It was supposed to be expanded in Wrath insted of the crap they did with it, then with Cata, locked into a certain build, Pandumba, no talent sytem at all. No thinking, no trying, no finding the best build. They said they wanted to "eleminate" cookie cutter builds, and that's just what they gave us as far as the "talents" go.

No more getting just that 1% higher DPS over the next guy cause you went with one talent over another. Instead you get to choose your power at every 15 levels.The only thing that's happening is it's being made more and more like a FTP than it ever was meant to be.

BTW, a LOT of their numbers come from subs like mine, which will be dropped when the first of the year hits as I am playing others WAY more than WoW now. Can't wait for the 6 months to be up.

And as far as Diablo III, it is a decent game. Now that they have fixed a lot of crap. Could have been a lot better if it had been released before Activision stepped on it.

I really do still like WoW, I just can't get into it anymore with what they have done with it.

Originally posted by RedMachine72

Been playing WoW since Feb '06. BC was a great addition when it hit. Wrath was good. Then Blizz was "aquired" by Activision and it's been all downhill from there. In fact, Wrath might have been better if Activision had let them do it right. Cata, even though I had high hopes for it, sucked in terms of gameplay. Activision is basically pushing WoW down hard so that it can go FTP one day and have anyone grab it and faceroll the keyboard thru the whole thing.

 Look at the talent system. It was supposed to be expanded in Wrath insted of the crap they did with it, then with Cata, locked into a certain build, Pandumba, no talent sytem at all. No thinking, no trying, no finding the best build. They said they wanted to "eleminate" cookie cutter builds, and that's just what they gave us as far as the "talents" go.

No more getting just that 1% higher DPS over the next guy cause you went with one talent over another. Instead you get to choose your power at every 15 levels.The only thing that's happening is it's being made more and more like a FTP than it ever was meant to be.

BTW, a LOT of their numbers come from subs like mine, which will be dropped when the first of the year hits as I am playing others WAY more than WoW now. Can't wait for the 6 months to be up.

And as far as Diablo III, it is a decent game. Now that they have fixed a lot of crap. Could have been a lot better if it had been released before Activision stepped on it.

I really do still like WoW, I just can't get into it anymore with what they have done with it.

I've been playing since early Nov '04 (beta), taking breaks here and there between expansions. I liked all of the expansion content in different ways. I generally don't complain about what's given. I either enjoy it or don't play it. At this point, I'm happy to say I'm done with it. I got a lot of fun out of it but like RedMachine said, I just can't get in to it anymore. I logged in twice when a friend gave me a scroll of resurrection. Once to see if anyone I knew was online (nobody online, across two different guilds on two different servers), and the second time I just soloed some of the new Firelands content. I think I've had more fun doing my laundry. It's gotten about as stale as bread I threw away years ago, but luckily there are a lot of choices now in MMOs and single player games. I'm more than happy with the other choices available. 

I hope WoW continues to entertain it's current fans, and that the rest of us find something equally entertaining in it's place. I think it's time for that ratio to balance out a bit now and hopefully we will see less of WoW's influence on the games we want to be different.

Originally posted by BillMurphy

I actually checked out the Pet Battle system last week, and well... it's kind of damn awesome.  Sure WoW isn't what it once was, but it's still a fun "game". That's in quotations, because that's really what it is more than a serious MMO. There was a time when I took WoW very seriously. Maybe it still is that way for some folks. But now, I see it as a fun world to step in and out of when I want to. Maybe that's just me.

But that doesn't mean it's a bad game. It's just... different these days.

Just what exactly do you consider a "serious" MMO?

These patches used to be massive... This one doesn't even look like a major patch. Also why did they remove head enchants?

They really should release a new Warcraft game. WoW has become way too dated and it has become the laughing stock of the gaming community.