@OP

Move along. Good Luck and have fun...

Originally posted by Xirik

Originally posted by Creslin321

Originally posted by grimal

Originally posted by Creslin321

 I think your earlier post was fine just because you were saying how you personally felt about the game and not making a more objective statement like:

"Aion has more substance."

Those are the kind of statements that irk me, because I think they are so obviously wrong.  I understand that not everyone will like this game, but I don't understand how someone can think that Aion has more substance than it.

Also, I agree with you about response times and combat smoothness.  I always have a bit of a learning curve when I adjust to how another game plays.  Sometimes, the game winds up feeling natural after this learning curve (GW2), sometimes it doesn't (WAR).

Everything written on these boards is ALWAYS the opinion of the writer...why should we have to worry about objective/subjective sounding.

If I say, "UO was the greatest game ever because of 1 2 3" or "EQ1 was the worst game because of 1 2 3" I shouldn't need to preface it with "IMHO"...These are forums for people to discuess their opinions....this is a given.

 Yeah but "opinion" isn't a shield you can hide behind for any argument.  For example, I can say, I played GW2, I didn't like it.  No one is going to argue with that.

Or I can say, I played GW2, and I have to say that Darkfall is a much better game in every aspect, especially the PvE.  I'm guessing people would argue with that.

See the difference?  In number one, I am just giving my personal feelings on a game.  In another I am making a statement.  Whether the statement is my opinion or not, it is still a statement and can be argued against.

Actually it is a shield you can hide behind for any argument as long as the person always uses  "I".

For example, I feel that captain crunch is a sucky cereal cause it hurts my mouth.

If said person says " this cereal sucks" that  person is trying to state what he said  as a factual statement. which you can freely troll and abuse if you wish.

I disagree. As Creslin says, when you are making a statement whether or not you are saying it as an opinion, it's presented as more of a fact. Basically, when you say something like ' X is bad, Y is better' you are quantifying both to a certain extent. Even a statement like 'this cereal sucks, it hurts my teeth' is imply 2 things: 1) that it's an inferior product, and 2) that it hurts people's teeth. It's a bit different than just saying 'I don't like it' because you are starting to infer certain arguable ideas with such statements.

 I generally don't bother to explain myself, actually I rarely post as you can tell by my post count and join date, but I'll give a small explanation because you ask nicely 8)

 I'll start by saying that obviously this is an opinion...my opinion, but there are some common complaints I have that MOST people seem to hold. This game feels sloppy, the movement, the combat, the interface and the skill system just don't feel well thought out or executed. I don't feel connected to the world and that is a big factor when I play games. I want to feel like I'm running on the ground and interacting with the environment, I want to get a contact sensation when in combat.

 I have to run *(, let me say this I love LotR, the books, the movies the whole concept is the greatest thing to me, I CAN"T play LotR online because it is one of the worst offenders of this concept to me...sliding around on the ground as i run and mobs sliding towards me....there is no connection to the world(not to mention I don't get the slightest sensation I'm in middle-earth)this game while not as bad as LotR suffers from the same issues. A lack of polish and attention to detail.GW1 was the same thing for me and they didn't improve on it.

 This is my opinion, but it has been echoed quite often since the the betas began.

 I feel like part of the world in WoW and that is a major factor for me.

 I have a nice computer by the way and know the difference between video lag and game mechanics, so it's not my pc as many seem to think may be the problem, it's just a clunky game and that kills immersion for many people.

Originally posted by Sylvus

 I generally don't bother to explain myself, actually I rarely post as you can tell by my post count and join date, but I'll give a small explanation because you ask nicely 8)

 I'll start by saying that obviously this is an opinion...my opinion, but there are some common complaints I have that MOST people seem to hold. This game feels sloppy, the movement, the combat, the interface and the skill system just don't feel well thought out or executed. I don't feel connected to the world and that is a big factor when I play games. I want to feel like I'm running on the ground and interacting with the environment, I want to get a contact sensation when in combat.

 I have to run *(, let me say this I love LotR, the books, the movies the whole concept is the greatest thing to me, I CAN"T play LotR online because it is one of the worst offenders of this concept to me...sliding around on the ground as i run and mobs sliding towards me....there is no connection to the world(not to mention I don't get the slightest sensation I'm in middle-earth)this game while not as bad as LotR suffers from the same issues. A lack of polish and attention to detail.GW1 was the same thing for me and they didn't improve on it.

 This is my opinion, but it has been echoed quite often since the the betas began.

 I feel like part of the world in WoW and that is a major factor for me.

 I have a nice computer by the way and know the difference between video lag and game mechanics, so it's not my pc as many seem to think may be the problem, it's just a clunky game and that kills immersion for many people.

i found this an odd statement considering I feel this is what sets GW2 so far apart from the rest of these games is the sense of immersion it creates and its extreme attention to detail for instance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu_clrndx_c

Originally posted by Sylvus

 I generally don't bother to explain myself, actually I rarely post as you can tell by my post count and join date, but I'll give a small explanation because you ask nicely 8)

 I'll start by saying that obviously this is an opinion...my opinion, but there are some common complaints I have that MOST people seem to hold. This game feels sloppy, the movement, the combat, the interface and the skill system just don't feel well thought out or executed. I don't feel connected to the world and that is a big factor when I play games. I want to feel like I'm running on the ground and interacting with the environment, I want to get a contact sensation when in combat.

 I have to run *(, let me say this I love LotR, the books, the movies the whole concept is the greatest thing to me, I CAN"T play LotR online because it is one of the worst offenders of this concept to me...sliding around on the ground as i run and mobs sliding towards me....there is no connection to the world(not to mention I don't get the slightest sensation I'm in middle-earth)this game while not as bad as LotR suffers from the same issues. A lack of polish and attention to detail.GW1 was the same thing for me and they didn't improve on it.

 This is my opinion, but it has been echoed quite often since the the betas began.

 I feel like part of the world in WoW and that is a major factor for me.

 I have a nice computer by the way and know the difference between video lag and game mechanics, so it's not my pc as many seem to think may be the problem, it's just a clunky game and that kills immersion for many people.

I kind of agree with you in some ways. For whatever reason, I still feel like WoW nailed the responsiveness better than any MMORPG I've ever played.

But is WoW the only game you can actually play now? Will you never be able to play another MMORPG until someone can match the responsiveness?

Not entirely sure that WoW is more responsive (as both seem to respond quickly) but it defenitely doesn't have characters that move like they are in quicksand all the time.   Definitely my biggest irritation with GW2, I'm shocked the slow ass movement speeds, in every direction, doesn't get more kickback.  Also the animations are so extensive that it almost seems like the character is not responding as the animations are often long and almost cartoon animated.

Immersion seemed to be lacking and I can't quite put my finger on why.  Without first person view I think that hurts immersion a bit.  I didn't really feel like I was in a world just something kinda cartoony.  Maybe the complete reliance on third person zoomed way out view doesn't help.  But how immersed can you really be in a modern themepark.  They have taken out anything that isn't streamlined 100%.  Not like I can screw anything up or have much freedom that I would even in the old school MMO's.

I can definitely see why some people aren't overly impressed with this game initially.  However, I did find myself liking the combat more and more as the weekend went on.  Combat and combat mechanics may be my favorite of the genre though.  If my toon would stop running in quicksand it would be my favorite MMO combat by a long shot. 

So overall, great combat that grows on you and the same shallow Themepark trappings of recent games.

Originally posted by kompleksaki

Lol at all those people bashing OP, because he likes WOW's character and combat responsiveness more. I have the same problem with him, when turning my camera arround, i am getting seasick. I don't know if its a latency problem or not , but it certainly isn't a performance issue.

 

And yet many others aren't experiencing this problem.  Sure it's not a performance issue...

Originally posted by Mardukk

Not entirely sure that WoW is more responsive (as both seem to respond quickly) but it defenitely doesn't have characters that move like they are in quicksand all the time.   Definitely my biggest irritation with GW2, I'm shocked the slow ass movement speeds, in every direction, doesn't get more kickback.  Also the animations are so extensive that it almost seems like the character is not responding as the animations are often long and almost cartoon animated.

Immersion seemed to be lacking and I can't quite put my finger on why.  Without first person view I think that hurts immersion a bit.  I didn't really feel like I was in a world just something kinda cartoony.  Maybe the complete reliance on third person zoomed way out view doesn't help.  But how immersed can you really be in a modern themepark.  They have taken out anything that isn't streamlined 100%.  Not like I can screw anything up or have much freedom that I would even in the old school MMO's.

I can definitely see why some people aren't overly impressed with this game initially.  However, I did find myself liking the combat more and more as the weekend went on.  Combat and combat mechanics may be my favorite of the genre though.  If my toon would stop running in quicksand it would be my favorite MMO combat by a long shot. 

 

So overall, great combat that grows on you and the same shallow Themepark trappings of recent games.

you should try asura.. since they are small the overall effect of movement makes it seem much faster than all the other classes

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Mardukk

Not entirely sure that WoW is more responsive (as both seem to respond quickly) but it defenitely doesn't have characters that move like they are in quicksand all the time.   Definitely my biggest irritation with GW2, I'm shocked the slow ass movement speeds, in every direction, doesn't get more kickback.  Also the animations are so extensive that it almost seems like the character is not responding as the animations are often long and almost cartoon animated.

Immersion seemed to be lacking and I can't quite put my finger on why.  Without first person view I think that hurts immersion a bit.  I didn't really feel like I was in a world just something kinda cartoony.  Maybe the complete reliance on third person zoomed way out view doesn't help.  But how immersed can you really be in a modern themepark.  They have taken out anything that isn't streamlined 100%.  Not like I can screw anything up or have much freedom that I would even in the old school MMO's.

I can definitely see why some people aren't overly impressed with this game initially.  However, I did find myself liking the combat more and more as the weekend went on.  Combat and combat mechanics may be my favorite of the genre though.  If my toon would stop running in quicksand it would be my favorite MMO combat by a long shot. 

 

So overall, great combat that grows on you and the same shallow Themepark trappings of recent games.

you should try asura.. since they are small the overall effect of movement makes it seem much faster than all the other classes

Any class that has a speed buff is gonna be my selected class haha.  So maybe a necro asura (I think necro has a speed buff?).

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by Sylvus

 I generally don't bother to explain myself, actually I rarely post as you can tell by my post count and join date, but I'll give a small explanation because you ask nicely 8)

 I'll start by saying that obviously this is an opinion...my opinion, but there are some common complaints I have that MOST people seem to hold. This game feels sloppy, the movement, the combat, the interface and the skill system just don't feel well thought out or executed. I don't feel connected to the world and that is a big factor when I play games. I want to feel like I'm running on the ground and interacting with the environment, I want to get a contact sensation when in combat.

 I have to run *(, let me say this I love LotR, the books, the movies the whole concept is the greatest thing to me, I CAN"T play LotR online because it is one of the worst offenders of this concept to me...sliding around on the ground as i run and mobs sliding towards me....there is no connection to the world(not to mention I don't get the slightest sensation I'm in middle-earth)this game while not as bad as LotR suffers from the same issues. A lack of polish and attention to detail.GW1 was the same thing for me and they didn't improve on it.

 This is my opinion, but it has been echoed quite often since the the betas began.

 I feel like part of the world in WoW and that is a major factor for me.

 I have a nice computer by the way and know the difference between video lag and game mechanics, so it's not my pc as many seem to think may be the problem, it's just a clunky game and that kills immersion for many people.

I kind of agree with you in some ways. For whatever reason, I still feel like WoW nailed the responsiveness better than any MMORPG I've ever played.

 

But is WoW the only game you can actually play now? Will you never be able to play another MMORPG until someone can match the responsiveness?

It's enough of a factor to me to say yes to that, if I'm not part of the world all of the other factors mean nothing.I do not play any mmo's atm...well I play  UO on a free server, but don'y play any current mmo's.

I agree completely with the OP, the movement and combat feels clunky, nothing has even come close in responsive combat as WOW.  After playing the Charr for about 2 hrs, I logged out and didnt play again this weekend.  The way they move and fight is horrendous.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by Sylvus

 I generally don't bother to explain myself, actually I rarely post as you can tell by my post count and join date, but I'll give a small explanation because you ask nicely 8)

 I'll start by saying that obviously this is an opinion...my opinion, but there are some common complaints I have that MOST people seem to hold. This game feels sloppy, the movement, the combat, the interface and the skill system just don't feel well thought out or executed. I don't feel connected to the world and that is a big factor when I play games. I want to feel like I'm running on the ground and interacting with the environment, I want to get a contact sensation when in combat.

 I have to run *(, let me say this I love LotR, the books, the movies the whole concept is the greatest thing to me, I CAN"T play LotR online because it is one of the worst offenders of this concept to me...sliding around on the ground as i run and mobs sliding towards me....there is no connection to the world(not to mention I don't get the slightest sensation I'm in middle-earth)this game while not as bad as LotR suffers from the same issues. A lack of polish and attention to detail.GW1 was the same thing for me and they didn't improve on it.

 This is my opinion, but it has been echoed quite often since the the betas began.

 I feel like part of the world in WoW and that is a major factor for me.

 I have a nice computer by the way and know the difference between video lag and game mechanics, so it's not my pc as many seem to think may be the problem, it's just a clunky game and that kills immersion for many people.

i found this an odd statement considering I feel this is what sets GW2 so far apart from the rest of these games is the sense of immersion it creates and its extreme attention to detail for instance http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fu_clrndx_c

Agreed.

I've played all the bwe's and all the stress tests and I think GW2 is one of the most responsive and detailed games I've played in a long time. Comparing BWE3 to BWE1 there has been a ton of improvement and there is still plenty more to improve. For still being in beta (though only a month away from release) GW2 is already much more polished than most mmos in the market right now.

If (and its a big "if") Anet can deliver with GW2 (which I think they are so far) and continue to listen to gamers and improve the game (before and after release) I believe GW2 will become one of the best mmos in the market.

As to comparing GW2 to WOW (which many ppl do), we have to remember that WOW has almost 8 years behind it while GW2 (though benefiting from GW1) is still in beta. Having said that, as an ex-wow player (since vanilla; I quit in Feb 2012), it is my personal and subjective opinion that GW2, while still in beta, is more responsive than WOW, immerses you more in the content and pays more attention to detail.

Guild Wars 2 = Super Fail

Originally posted by Mardukk

Not entirely sure that WoW is more responsive (as both seem to respond quickly) but it defenitely doesn't have characters that move like they are in quicksand all the time.   Definitely my biggest irritation with GW2, I'm shocked the slow ass movement speeds, in every direction, doesn't get more kickback.  Also the animations are so extensive that it almost seems like the character is not responding as the animations are often long and almost cartoon animated.

Immersion seemed to be lacking and I can't quite put my finger on why.  Without first person view I think that hurts immersion a bit.  I didn't really feel like I was in a world just something kinda cartoony.  Maybe the complete reliance on third person zoomed way out view doesn't help.  But how immersed can you really be in a modern themepark.  They have taken out anything that isn't streamlined 100%.  Not like I can screw anything up or have much freedom that I would even in the old school MMO's.

I can definitely see why some people aren't overly impressed with this game initially.  However, I did find myself liking the combat more and more as the weekend went on.  Combat and combat mechanics may be my favorite of the genre though.  If my toon would stop running in quicksand it would be my favorite MMO combat by a long shot. 

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but there's some elements of it that are definitely puzzling.

First, you mention that some of GW2's animations feel 'cartoon animated', and imply that WoW is somehow more natural. However, WoW has some of the most cartoony animations on the market. That's one of the reasons it feels as fluid as it does, is because all the animations are highly exaggerated. You see some of this from races like the Asura, but you also have more of a range of styles in GW2.

As for the lack of first person view, do you play other games this way? Personally I can't think of any MMOs (outside of planetside), in which I could play that way. I dunno, I'd say immersion (for me at least) is tied more to the environment than the camera, and I'd also say that the environment in GW2 is one of the best I've seen.

Again, everyone's perception is going to change based on personal preference, but some of the criticisms I'm seeing seem a bit hypocritical when people try and provide explanations. I have my own issues with the game, but these aren't some of them.

Originally posted by Myrdynn

I agree completely with the OP, the movement and combat feels clunky, nothing has even come close in responsive combat as WOW.  After playing the Charr for about 2 hrs, I logged out and didnt play again this weekend.  The way they move and fight is horrendous.

I've played in all the BWE's and all the stress tests and I have to say that I disagree. I have logged approx 30 hrs per BWE and every hr of the stress tests and I believe that GW2 is more responsive than WOW. After playing WOW since vanilla I would not consider myself a GW2 fanboy (prob more of a wow fanboy). Though I had a great run in WOW and had awesomes times with friends, guildies and family (met my wife through wow), I just couldn't stand the repetitive gear grind that wow was subjecting me. As long as GW2 continues to improve, I think my new mmo home will be GW2.

As to the fight being horrendous, I have played wvw more than anything else during the beta and I have to say it was some of the most fun I have ever had in a game; way superior to WOW's bg's.

Originally posted by sheva07

Guild Wars 2 = Super Fail

*sigh. Trolls will be trolls.

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Mardukk

Not entirely sure that WoW is more responsive (as both seem to respond quickly) but it defenitely doesn't have characters that move like they are in quicksand all the time.   Definitely my biggest irritation with GW2, I'm shocked the slow ass movement speeds, in every direction, doesn't get more kickback.  Also the animations are so extensive that it almost seems like the character is not responding as the animations are often long and almost cartoon animated.

Immersion seemed to be lacking and I can't quite put my finger on why.  Without first person view I think that hurts immersion a bit.  I didn't really feel like I was in a world just something kinda cartoony.  Maybe the complete reliance on third person zoomed way out view doesn't help.  But how immersed can you really be in a modern themepark.  They have taken out anything that isn't streamlined 100%.  Not like I can screw anything up or have much freedom that I would even in the old school MMO's.

I can definitely see why some people aren't overly impressed with this game initially.  However, I did find myself liking the combat more and more as the weekend went on.  Combat and combat mechanics may be my favorite of the genre though.  If my toon would stop running in quicksand it would be my favorite MMO combat by a long shot. 

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but there's some elements of it that are definitely puzzling.

First, you mention that some of GW2's animations feel 'cartoon animated', and imply that WoW is somehow more natural. However, WoW has some of the most cartoony animations on the market. That's one of the reasons it feels as fluid as it does, is because all the animations are highly exaggerated. You see some of this from races like the Asura, but you also have more of a range of styles in GW2.

As for the lack of first person view, do you play other games this way? Personally I can't think of any MMOs (outside of planetside), in which I could play that way. I dunno, I'd say immersion (for me at least) is tied more to the environment than the camera, and I'd also say that the environment in GW2 is one of the best I've seen.

Again, everyone's perception is going to change based on personal preference, but some of the criticisms I'm seeing seem a bit hypocritical when people try and provide explanations. I have my own issues with the game, but these aren't some of them.

 

yes puzzling indeed http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EaC02CfOd0 vs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FgoQ7xaa_vk what am I missing here? also these wow animations are the "new improved" monk ones

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by Mardukk

Not entirely sure that WoW is more responsive (as both seem to respond quickly) but it defenitely doesn't have characters that move like they are in quicksand all the time.   Definitely my biggest irritation with GW2, I'm shocked the slow ass movement speeds, in every direction, doesn't get more kickback.  Also the animations are so extensive that it almost seems like the character is not responding as the animations are often long and almost cartoon animated.

Immersion seemed to be lacking and I can't quite put my finger on why.  Without first person view I think that hurts immersion a bit.  I didn't really feel like I was in a world just something kinda cartoony.  Maybe the complete reliance on third person zoomed way out view doesn't help.  But how immersed can you really be in a modern themepark.  They have taken out anything that isn't streamlined 100%.  Not like I can screw anything up or have much freedom that I would even in the old school MMO's.

I can definitely see why some people aren't overly impressed with this game initially.  However, I did find myself liking the combat more and more as the weekend went on.  Combat and combat mechanics may be my favorite of the genre though.  If my toon would stop running in quicksand it would be my favorite MMO combat by a long shot. 

You're definitely entitled to your opinion, but there's some elements of it that are definitely puzzling.

First, you mention that some of GW2's animations feel 'cartoon animated', and imply that WoW is somehow more natural. However, WoW has some of the most cartoony animations on the market. That's one of the reasons it feels as fluid as it does, is because all the animations are highly exaggerated. You see some of this from races like the Asura, but you also have more of a range of styles in GW2.

As for the lack of first person view, do you play other games this way? Personally I can't think of any MMOs (outside of planetside), in which I could play that way. I dunno, I'd say immersion (for me at least) is tied more to the environment than the camera, and I'd also say that the environment in GW2 is one of the best I've seen.

Again, everyone's perception is going to change based on personal preference, but some of the criticisms I'm seeing seem a bit hypocritical when people try and provide explanations. I have my own issues with the game, but these aren't some of them.

 

Agreed.

I would consider WOW "cartoony" and GW2 "artsy"

CBA reading the whole thread, but anyway...

When I logged in the first day (EU btw, if it matters), the character felt out of sync with my keypresses etc etc. It was horrible. When I logged in saturday though, the feeling of desync and lag was gone and the game felt incredibly responsive. I don't know if it had something to do with the servers or the amount of people trying to play at the beginning, but the experiences I had were vastly different.

When the game actually played smoothly, the game was great. If you had another experience, maybe you should consider other factors than bad programming, be it computer, ISP, game servers or the amount of load. That said, it doesn't have to be your comp - mine's a beast and I still had problems the first evening so guessing it was something else.

Regardless, game might not have that many completely new features, but it doesn't stop it from being a great game. :) Too bad you didn't enjoy it.

Originally posted by joocheese

Originally posted by Myrdynn

I agree completely with the OP, the movement and combat feels clunky, nothing has even come close in responsive combat as WOW.  After playing the Charr for about 2 hrs, I logged out and didnt play again this weekend.  The way they move and fight is horrendous.

I've played in all the BWE's and all the stress tests and I have to say that I disagree. I have logged approx 30 hrs per BWE and every hr of the stress tests and I believe that GW2 is more responsive than WOW. After playing WOW since vanilla I would not consider myself a GW2 fanboy (prob more of a wow fanboy). Though I had a great run in WOW and had awesomes times with friends, guildies and family (met my wife through wow), I just couldn't stand the repetitive gear grind that wow was subjecting me. As long as GW2 continues to improve, I think my new mmo home will be GW2.

As to the fight being horrendous, I have played wvw more than anything else during the beta and I have to say it was some of the most fun I have ever had in a game; way superior to WOW's bg's.

And that's why Baskin Robbins has 31 flavors.