Originally posted by Adalwulff

Another attempt claiming GW2 is P2W, I think the moderators are sleeping, or maybe they enjoy this crap.

my guess is they are all enjoying GW2 right now

Originally posted by Interesting

Real Money = Gems = Ingame Money = Stuff that gives advantage.

O really ... And what are those "stuff taht gives advantage"?

Even the blueprints for WvWvW are dead cheap (we're talking few silver coins)... Everything else I bought in this game so far was using karma, silver pvp badges or glory points... Unless you think few silvers for repairing armor is a real advantage.

Originally posted by Interesting

Originally posted by Kenze

get over it OP. seriously. the days of mmos being like a second job and crying over cash shops are over.  join the rest of us in 2012.

 

I dont get over things. Im a remnant. I dont change. Before I die I will convert those around me to my cause.

Joking aside this is exactly true. All you "OMG pay to win cash shop" people for whatever reason are needing some validation that others do not like the cash shop. The first dozen topics that each went 10+ pages covered all this. 

You hate cash shop. Thats fine then don't play it. I can understand wanting to talk about it when it was first proposed but its in. Its not getting removed. At this point you guys just want a pity party support group

As a general rule, but not written in stone, I don't buy anything in cash shops because I feel if it's not attainable in-game then "it doesn't count" and has no value to *me*.

My personal rule doesn't apply to F2P games where you have to purchase content, such as in LOTRO.

Originally posted by bcbully

Ofcourse you can by better gear, and increase chance to make better stuff at a faster rate.  "Better than everyon else?" No game has this does it?

 

Unbalanced?  It can be argued that if I have one more than you due to paying cash, I have unbalanced the game. I don't think that is the spirit of the definition though.

 

I do think that GW2 has pay to win elements as defined by this definition, but I do not think that those elements will be unbalancing enough to break the game. 

OK let;s see

Imagine you are playing a dynamic event and a big boss spawns. Imagine that a player used the Cash Shop to buy an xp booster so he is higher level than you and has more skills unlocked (same level due to level scaling) because before 30 not all slots are unlocked. Does he have an advantage over you? No. Is the game unbalanced with this? No. Why? Because the same thing can happen easily (given some time) any way. Players WILL visit earlier areas and be a little bit more powerful than others, will it ruin the game? No. Why should you care if they use an xp booster to be higher level that you? level scaling will take care of them.

Karma booster/magic find booster etc work the same, they are useless in a cooperative experience. They don't affect you in any way. If they spend tons of money on the cash shop and end up with 100000000 gold, why should you care? Is there a competition who gets to 80 first? Is there a competition who earns 100000 gold first? Is there a competition who will have the best looking item? The answer is no to all these questions, so claiming P2W is pointless and shows little knowledge over the very basics of the game.

How exactly are those boosters making the game "unbalanced" is beyond me.

What really matters is how items look and you can't get the best looking items with gold or even karma so there no point whatsoever to bitch about it.

What do you actually want? 

A top notch MMO without paying anything but a token box fee? Then how can you expect them to keep working on the game, fixing it and improving it at your conveniance?

It's bad enough you've got OTHERS to pay for you (ingame store,) now you bitch because the people who pay for you get a small advantage.

Originally posted by Bjelar

What do you actually want? 

 

"They" don't actually want anything. You people do realise that for the last 6 pages you are talking to a single troll? 

How many times can i repeat myself before people realize just how wrong they are?!

You cannot gain any advantage with experience boosts in a game that 1: reduces your level to the zone and increases it to max in the pvp zone you are in 2: requires that you actually have to play and fight with each type of weapon to gain the skills necessary (no you do not gain these abilities automatically upon leveling).

And besides, the reason that topic won't be brought back up to the top is due to it being a very old outdated and wrong argument, all anyone has to do is look at the features of GW2 to see that there is no advantage to reaching level 80 first unless you are counting an oooh aaaah achievement! smh

Oh god. This is not  a P2W game.... get over it. srsly.

You think servers run on air or what ? THey need electricity btw ;)

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Istavaan

One person can't wn anything on their own.

Ok that's a little too deep...

 

What's winning as defined by pay to win. Does GW2 have does paying cash in GW2 help you achieve achieve "winning as defined by pay to win?

Winning is referring to competition. As in between players. That is why reaching end game is not referred to as winning because the game is not in competition with you. If you can pay to win the competition between you and other players, it's pay to win. Simple really

By name and definition the game is in competition with you. Player vs Enviornment, correct?

Now you're taking this elsewhere but I'll bite.

Definition of Compete: Strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same.

The environment may be trying to defeat you but only as a hinderance, not because it is trying to gain anything. In a competition both partys must be trying to attain the same thing. So by definition, no, the environment (the game) is not competing with you.

Players on the other hand have goals they are trying to attain which you are, by definition, competing with them for.

So the only competiton going on in an MMO is between players. And when you can pay to win that competition, the game is refrerred to as 'Pay to Win'

I admit I don't follow GW2, because I want the game to be new to me when I play it, but don't you compete with other players in DE for bags or loot at the end of the DE? If so, doesn't the amount of dmg or participation count towards who gets the top bad? If so, wouldn't the guy spending money on xp boosts have an advantage, because they'll get their skills and ability points faster, thus dealing more dmg and contributing more in fights?

Originally posted by Interesting

Too Long Didnt Read Version:

Whole point is to send the message that its not OK to monetize time and effort,

 

 

 

 

 

 I honestly stopped reading right there. That has to be the dumbest opening sentence ever. Time and effort are monetized EVERYDAY, it's called EMPLOYMENT.

Originally posted by nate1980

I admit I don't follow GW2, because I want the game to be new to me when I play it, but don't you compete with other players in DE for bags or loot at the end of the DE? If so, doesn't the amount of dmg or participation count towards who gets the top bad? If so, wouldn't the guy spending money on xp boosts have an advantage, because they'll get their skills and ability points faster, thus dealing more dmg and contributing more in fights?

No it is very easy to get a gold reward if you actively participate in an event, even a few hits will get you a bronze reward, and playing for a bit more during an event will give you a gold. This isn't like Warhammer Online where people were fighting each other for contribution and rewards.

Other people getting to max level before me doesn't bother me. I'm pretty sure I could get a character to max level in a few days with out any xp boosts anyways.

Originally posted by nate1980

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by SkullyWoods

Originally posted by bcbully

Originally posted by Istavaan

One person can't wn anything on their own.

Ok that's a little too deep...

 

What's winning as defined by pay to win. Does GW2 have does paying cash in GW2 help you achieve achieve "winning as defined by pay to win?

Winning is referring to competition. As in between players. That is why reaching end game is not referred to as winning because the game is not in competition with you. If you can pay to win the competition between you and other players, it's pay to win. Simple really

By name and definition the game is in competition with you. Player vs Enviornment, correct?

Now you're taking this elsewhere but I'll bite.

Definition of Compete: Strive to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others who are trying to do the same.

The environment may be trying to defeat you but only as a hinderance, not because it is trying to gain anything. In a competition both partys must be trying to attain the same thing. So by definition, no, the environment (the game) is not competing with you.

Players on the other hand have goals they are trying to attain which you are, by definition, competing with them for.

So the only competiton going on in an MMO is between players. And when you can pay to win that competition, the game is refrerred to as 'Pay to Win'

I admit I don't follow GW2, because I want the game to be new to me when I play it, but don't you compete with other players in DE for bags or loot at the end of the DE? If so, doesn't the amount of dmg or participation count towards who gets the top bad? If so, wouldn't the guy spending money on xp boosts have an advantage, because they'll get their skills and ability points faster, thus dealing more dmg and contributing more in fights?

No, you dont compete with anyone in DEs, everyone gets their own loot when they kill monsters together and even with 15 or so people in a event that can scale up to 10 people its easy to earn a gold medal(the highest reward) by just not stoping to do things in the DE, this include reviving, helping other people, killing stuff and whatever other things you gota do in the DE.

If you are level 16 and the area is lvl 14 you will be downscaled to lvl 14 and while you might have better equip the difference in damage is minuscule.

Originally posted by rissies

Originally posted by Interesting

Too Long Didnt Read Version:

Whole point is to send the message that its not OK to monetize time and effort

 

 

And I stopped right there.

Yes it is ok. Time is worth something. Effort is worth something. It doesn't matter if it's time and effort spent playing a video game, or time and effort spent at an actual job, they both have value. How the value of one is measured against the other depends greatly on the playerbase. Even without a cash shop of any kind, there would still be the translation of real cash to in-game currency through gold and account sellers, like in every other mmo. A cash shop simply represents a more visible, more palatable, and more easily controlled conversion that can directly benefit the game.

 

As a general rule in life, it's usually wise to read something fully before making an assessment. 

Already a thread for this discussion, we dont need more.

You can find that thread here:  http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/357908/I-finally-understand-the-Pay-to-Win-argument.html