The people saying guild wars 2 is "pay2win" won't be playing the game anyway, so you shouldn't be worrying about it. let those of us who will be playing the game enjoy it for what it is.

Originally posted by Istavaan

Originally posted by Interesting

Originally posted by Istavaan

 

but you can't buy the best gear in the game so really at end game its not p2w

 

"The best gear" is a fallacy. Wether it can be bought or not does not matter.

What matter is "anything, direct or indirect that can cause an effect on the experience"

 

On the experience, or on the design, or on the intended monetization, or on the competition. Either of those is enough to disrupt the hygiene of the experience.

Seriously man, it's a game! i think your deep thinking and over analysis would be put to better use on more important topics.

It doesnt look important.

But this is the essence of why we are being fed crap after crap for years. The reason they disrespect us. The reason why they dont listen to us. The reason why WHAT WE WANT IS NOT BEING CONSIDERED. So it is important.

Because the vector must start from the consumers, and not from the industry. We, the consumers are to be the ones who weights most on the decisions that affect our future. Not the executives of the industry and the bought media.

Originally posted by Istavaan

The people saying guild wars 2 is "pay2win" won't be playing the game anyway, so you shouldn't be worrying about it. let those of us who will be playing the game enjoy it for what it is.

Excellent idea, so I was right all along it simply reproduces the capitalist accumulation of wealth system, only those who have the dollar can shine in the glory. You pay to succeed. I think the lobbyists in the White House know all about this greed inspired agenda.

Originally posted by hikaru77

Originally posted by grapevine
As long as they don't take it to the next level like they did with GW1 (ie. skill packs), then it should be fine.

Just wait. 

Ive yet to see a game cash shop that "downgrades" its greedyness, but the opposite became common ground and is not out of the realms of reason for it to be expected.

Originally posted by SlavojZizek

Originally posted by Istavaan

The people saying guild wars 2 is "pay2win" won't be playing the game anyway, so you shouldn't be worrying about it. let those of us who will be playing the game enjoy it for what it is.

 

Excellent idea, so I was right all along it simply reproduces the capitalist accumulation of wealth system, only those who have the dollar can shine in the glory. You pay to succeed. I think the lobbyists in the White House know all about this greed inspired agenda.

I think what he means is that the majority of players who will be buying the game don't think it is pay to win and think that you lot are crazy tin foil hat wearers.

I played GW1 for 7 years without ever spending a single dollar in the cash shop. This included high-ranked PvP. There is nothing to purchase that will make you better in any way shape or form than another player.

The people saying that buying in game currency is 'winning' are really grasping at straws with the GW2 hate train. Siege stuff costs next to nothing at end game, and having money wont get you better (in terms of stats, not appearance) armor than anyone else.

Originally posted by SlavojZizek

Originally posted by Istavaan

The people saying guild wars 2 is "pay2win" won't be playing the game anyway, so you shouldn't be worrying about it. let those of us who will be playing the game enjoy it for what it is.

 

Excellent idea, so I was right all along it simply reproduces the capitalist accumulation of wealth system, only those who have the dollar can shine in the glory. You pay to succeed. I think the lobbyists in the White House know all about this greed inspired agenda.

And the issue with the accumulation of wealth is? What is a touch amusing about the whole anti wall street, anti capitalism, anti consumerism movement, is that it is full of people banging on about it into their iphones/ipads and onto a forum about a consumer product - games.

"I wish that dear Karl could have spent more time acquiring capital instead of merely writing about it." --Jenny Marx

Originally posted by MoonBeans

I've seen worse.  TSW comes to mind.    there you have a B2P, then a Month Sub Fee, and a cash shop.

Yeah cause a standard model with a cash shop that offers cosmetic items only is a lot worse than a game with a cash shop that gives people an advantage... You may hate the sub fee, which is fine... but you can't compare the two.

If you had even remotely thought it out, instead of just blind fanboism you would have realized that WoWs cash shop would of been a much better comparison since you can actually buy things that affect the gameplay. Even then not so much.

Originally posted by fivoroth

Originally posted by botrytis

I guess people don't remember the first 3 or 4 years of GvG in GW1. There were 1 million dollar prize tournaments. So yeas, they do eSPORTS.

I don't think a lot of people on these forums actually played GW so there's nothing for them to remember. When GW1 fans were preaching about how skill should matter more than gear and that it's all about an equal level PvP, most MMOers were "lol GW1 , goes back to playing WoW/EQ etc.". Now 7 years later they are preaching what GW1 players realised so long ago :D

Exactly. Its also why they are having such a hard time realising that you can have a cash shop without Pay to Win, since they never bothered with the original GW to see how it worked.

Originally posted by k-damage

The thing is : I don't f*cking care, really.

Game is solid, fun, I don't care if the driver next to me has bought a NOS booster, a carbon hood or fancy neon under his car, as long as I enjoy my ride.

And people should do the same. They would live a happier life.

Yeah you won't care until you are left alone to your ride as everyone else speeds past. That road you were riding on is suddenly a lonely one. No one else will want to travel with you because you can't keep up. And when you get to those car meets to show off your ride... no one else will hang with you. Because you again, can't keep up. They'll be in a different league.

Now if you were playing a solo-centric mmo and it was frickin solid... no worries. 

Originally posted by madazz

Originally posted by k-damage

The thing is : I don't f*cking care, really.

Game is solid, fun, I don't care if the driver next to me has bought a NOS booster, a carbon hood or fancy neon under his car, as long as I enjoy my ride.

And people should do the same. They would live a happier life.

Yeah you won't care until you are left alone to your ride as everyone else speeds past. That road you were riding on is suddenly a lonely one. No one else will want to travel with you because you can't keep up. And when you get to those car meets to show off your ride... no one else will hang with you. Because you again, can't keep up. They'll be in a different league.

 

Now if you were playing a solo-centric mmo and it was frickin solid... no worries. 

why is it a lonely one when players get deleveled when going into a lower level zone?

Rarely does the average message tell you ahead of time which fallacy the author intends to present, in the title.

Correct, and it was a fine slippery slope indeed.

Originally posted by Grahor

There is only one pay-2-win definition: shop-purchased items are making the player more poverful in PvP, while same level of power is unachievable to non-paying player without considerable grind.

 

If there is no such thing, then it's not Pay-2-Win.

 

That's all, thankyouverymuch for reading and, obviously, not understanding.

EXACTLY.  Finally someone posts a good definition of pay to win. I would probably change the last sentence to  "unachieveable to non-paying players" period.  Either way, I don't believe that GW2 is p2w.....at least not at THIS point.

Originally posted by Interesting

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by Interesting

 

Everything you get in the game, YOU HAVE TO EARN IT.

EARN IT INSIDE THE GAME. LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

 

Well said. Everything in GW2's cash shop, you can earn it ingame.

 

And

EARN IT ONLY INSIDE THE GAME.

Everyone starting from zero, with no external influences.

Name me a game that does that.

Originally posted by evilastro

Originally posted by SlavojZizek

Originally posted by Istavaan

The people saying guild wars 2 is "pay2win" won't be playing the game anyway, so you shouldn't be worrying about it. let those of us who will be playing the game enjoy it for what it is.

 

Excellent idea, so I was right all along it simply reproduces the capitalist accumulation of wealth system, only those who have the dollar can shine in the glory. You pay to succeed. I think the lobbyists in the White House know all about this greed inspired agenda.

I think what he means is that the majority of players who will be buying the game don't think it is pay to win and think that you lot are crazy tin foil hat wearers.

I played GW1 for 7 years without ever spending a single dollar in the cash shop. This included high-ranked PvP. There is nothing to purchase that will make you better in any way shape or form than another player.

The people saying that buying in game currency is 'winning' are really grasping at straws with the GW2 hate train. Siege stuff costs next to nothing at end game, and having money wont get you better (in terms of stats, not appearance) armor than anyone else.

 

¨gw1 skill packs¨, i just gonna say that. Did you know guys that Anet and NCsoft want to make money?, people is talking here like if Anet are all saints who dont really want a cash shop or people spending money on it, they have boost even for epic drops!, we still dont know how hard will be to get some good gear at endgame, but at least u are really a lucky guy, the player who spend more money on boost will be geared faster than you.  But is ok since gw2 is B2P the game can have 200k players after the 1st month and nobady will notice it, however the WvWvW could be a problem, without  people is just doorwars 2.0 and we wont have full servers for the eternity.  

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by Interesting

Originally posted by sapheroith

Originally posted by Interesting

 

Everything you get in the game, YOU HAVE TO EARN IT.

EARN IT INSIDE THE GAME. LIKE EVERYONE ELSE.

 

Well said. Everything in GW2's cash shop, you can earn it ingame.

 

And

EARN IT ONLY INSIDE THE GAME.

Everyone starting from zero, with no external influences.

Name me a game that does that.

Ultima Online, from Origins, designed by Richard Garriot over a decade ago. You might have heard of it.

Remember this is STILL beta, and Anet has been listening VERY closely to its player base.

Honestly to fix the problems with the WvW being B2W ALL they need to do is remove the ability to sell your gems for in game cash from the game.

If you remove this feature then players would not be able to generate tons of fast gold and be able to totally dominate early WvW.

Maybe not even remove it completely just disable it for the first month.

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Grahor

There is only one pay-2-win definition: shop-purchased items are making the player more poverful in PvP, while same level of power is unachievable to non-paying player without considerable grind.

 

If there is no such thing, then it's not Pay-2-Win.

 

That's all, thankyouverymuch for reading and, obviously, not understanding.

 

EXACTLY.  Finally someone posts a good definition of pay to win. I would probably change the last sentence to  "unachieveable to non-paying players" period.  Either way, I don't believe that GW2 is p2w.....at least not at THIS point.

How exactly would you apply this defintion to experience booster, even self resurrection items, anything which speeds a player along towards the higher levels?

While not directly imparting a PVP advantage, in most titles higher level = much greater power, so some folks feel they are just as imbalancing.

I've heard in GW2 this isn't an issue because everyone in level 80 in PVP, but I wonder, does a level 10 raised to 80 have access to the same skills/abilities/spells/gear as a true level 80?  I'm thinking the answer is no and if so, there is a bit of P2W going on even in GW2.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Grahor

There is only one pay-2-win definition: shop-purchased items are making the player more poverful in PvP, while same level of power is unachievable to non-paying player without considerable grind.

 

If there is no such thing, then it's not Pay-2-Win.

 

That's all, thankyouverymuch for reading and, obviously, not understanding.

 

EXACTLY.  Finally someone posts a good definition of pay to win. I would probably change the last sentence to  "unachieveable to non-paying players" period.  Either way, I don't believe that GW2 is p2w.....at least not at THIS point.

How exactly would you apply this defintion to experience booster, even self resurrection items, anything which speeds a player along towards the higher levels?

While not directly imparting a PVP advantage, in most titles higher level = much greater power, so some folks feel they are just as imbalancing.

I've heard in GW2 this isn't an issue because everyone in level 80 in PVP, but I wonder, does a level 10 raised to 80 have access to the same skills/abilities/spells/gear as a true level 80?  I'm thinking the answer is no and if so, there is a bit of P2W going on even in GW2.

 

of course someone who is a level 10 raised to 80 wont have all the skills a real level 80 would have..it would be stupid to if think that would be the case. im still not seeing your p2w.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by just1opinion

Originally posted by Grahor

There is only one pay-2-win definition: shop-purchased items are making the player more poverful in PvP, while same level of power is unachievable to non-paying player without considerable grind.

 

If there is no such thing, then it's not Pay-2-Win.

 

That's all, thankyouverymuch for reading and, obviously, not understanding.

 

EXACTLY.  Finally someone posts a good definition of pay to win. I would probably change the last sentence to  "unachieveable to non-paying players" period.  Either way, I don't believe that GW2 is p2w.....at least not at THIS point.

How exactly would you apply this defintion to experience booster, even self resurrection items, anything which speeds a player along towards the higher levels?

While not directly imparting a PVP advantage, in most titles higher level = much greater power, so some folks feel they are just as imbalancing.

I've heard in GW2 this isn't an issue because everyone in level 80 in PVP, but I wonder, does a level 10 raised to 80 have access to the same skills/abilities/spells/gear as a true level 80?  I'm thinking the answer is no and if so, there is a bit of P2W going on even in GW2.

 

As far as leveling goes, in GW2's traditional leveling system, 1 level = more power. People can say they don't care, but it is what it is.