i dont get the eve comparisons......you fought, you mined, you crafted, you traded. yea it was a huge open universe to play in but i really dont see too much in variation of what can be done.

Originally posted by Garvon3

I had forgotten about Roma Victor... yeah that came close to UO levels of virtual simulation, but still didn't have nearly as many features.

 

For those asking for a feature list... it'd be pages and pages long. Kind of difficult.

But by the very nature of the game, the way it was built, gave you a great amount of freedom to make your own stuff. The ability to place anything on the ground, or pick up anything from a shelf, and write in books and place them around the world is something I've yet to see return.

And since it was FFA PvP that gave people a HUGE amount of things possible.

So you had... pick pocketing, sailing/treasure maps, in game minigames at bars like chess and checkers and cards, placing houses anywhere, decorating your house, setting up traps like exploding chests in the woods, being able to breed sheep to start a wool business, breaking into someone else's house if you manage to find their key, monsters looting your body, and using your weapons against you, building elaborate structures and bases using in game items and houses... it's really hard, there's very little you COULDN'T do. Not all was good, there were entire clans dedicated to scamming people (giving them fake Runes to trap them on islands in the middle of nowhere and robbing them blind, or leading them to a house where they're murdered and robbed..then again there were entire clans dedicated to hunting and killing those clans) but the freedom was amazing. No one "enjoys" being a victim, I suppose, but I was grateful for those villains because it gave me someone real to fight against, watch out for, and protect people from. There was a clan of people that wore masks and armor that made them look like Orcs, and they spoke in broken English and raided player cities. God.. that game...

The only way it functioned was because there was plenty for non PvPers to do. So you had everyone under one roof, the griefers making PvE more exciting, the sheep making PvP more exciting... but that wouldn't happen nowadays. Unless a game had the best PvE on the market, sheep wouldn't play the game. Everyone nowadays who plays a game like UO has a slight PvP leaning. That's why the emulated servers never capture the original community.

I'd say the closest is Eve, you have a lot of PvE type players in that game.

Amen!

Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt:

I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.

In UO, besides killing stuff you could:

- Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons.

- Herd, Tame, train and sell pets

- Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting)

- Grow plants

- Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself.

- Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined

- Hunt for rares, trade them

- Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously)

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Get on your boat, sail around and explore

- Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend"

- Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

- Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc.

- Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location)

- Run a shop

- Scam people in a hundred ways

- Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics

- Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)

I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.

Good luck matching that to any game released since.

Originally posted by Sebali

i dont get the eve comparisons......you fought, you mined, you crafted, you traded. yea it was a huge open universe to play in but i really dont see too much in variation of what can be done.

The same for Perpetuum Online.

Most games crafting are just a single feature. Mostly a gimmick. An after thought.

In Ultima Online, all professions, if not all, each profession was its own feature, if one were to compare with a "feature" from other games.

And most of those professions/features were very well bridged/connected.  As if people were playing different games within the same world.

I remember some people being "insert profession" their whole life while playing Ultima Online.

Now in most games everyone is everything.

The difference was in the time and effort involved.

Most games now are designed for a scripted linear vertical progression. These games now have specific content, with specific average time frame to consume them. Specific notions of "end game". Everyone doing the same thing, experiencing the game the same way, no different than automatons.

In UO, you kind of just enjoyed the journey. Learned the tricks of the trade of your profession, became good at it, eventually made a name for yourself, things take different routes.

The whole point was the design for people to live the game, the virtual society.

Its like somewhere along the MMORPG lines there was an embargo. A rule for every developer company. You can make the game any way you like, except design the game for people to live in. It feels like a conspiracy, or some New World Order agenda. Its hard to understand how come we didnt got 1% of the MMORPGs as virtual worlds to live in anymore.

Its hard to believe that "its because its hard to do so", or "its technically impossible", or that "there is no demand for it".

In todays games you have this abstract socialization through auction house, abstract traveling, abstract exploration, abstract freedom... Everything became so simplified, so abstracted.

Originally posted by ahumata

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

im curious - what did UO offer in crafting that EQ2 does not have?

you cannot name gear in EQ2 but otherwise it supports most if not all of this

Originally posted by Nadia

Originally posted by ahumata

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

im curious - what did UO offer in crafting that EQ2 does not have?

You could bake bread then poisen it then sell it to players, epic fun :)

Originally posted by ahumata

Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt:

I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.

 

In UO, besides killing stuff you could:

- Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons.

- Herd, Tame, train and sell pets

- Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting)

- Grow plants

- Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself.

- Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined

- Hunt for rares, trade them

- Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously)

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Get on your boat, sail around and explore

- Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend"

- Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

- Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc.

- Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location)

- Run a shop

- Scam people in a hundred ways

- Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics

- Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)

 

I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.

 

Good luck matching that to any game released since.

You could do a lot of that in SWG go figure though, the two titles shared quite a few developers.

I think the difference between UO and a lot of the newer games is that players carried out activities that weren't part of what the developers planned for the players to do. I remember reading about an auction house that served the same purpose as the auction house in games like WoW, but it was 100% player run. There were no automated systems in place at all. While it's not impossible that players could do something like that in others game, I don't think they would.

If you're just listing distinct activities, there are probably other games with just as many activities that are designed by the developers. It's odd, but I think the current "virtual world" games have fewer activities than the "gamey" games.

I don't think the number of developer designed activities is all that relative to the enjoyment of the games being played though. WoW has lots of distinct activities, but that doesn't make it a great game. Minecraft has very few distinct activities, but that doesn't make it a horrible game. It would be generous to say that Half Life 2 has 4 activities, but Half Life 2 is an awesome game.

False. UO and EvE are the only good ones.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4xfrVUj_c0&t=18m14s

Including this here for all you folks.

I lean towards true, though I realize that other games have come close, if not matched the style of freedom found in UO in their own variations; SWG is a great example, as is the likes of EVE. The fact that I'm still playing Ultima Online sixteen years later and capable of finding new or unique ways to play the game is a credit to the detail placed into giving players the tools necessary to effect their environment.

Originally posted by Interesting

"There has yet to be a virtual world that even comes close to the number of things you can do in Ultima Online."

 

Is this statement true or false? Could you provide examples of MMORPGs and "things you can do" in these games that "come close" to Ultima Online?

Going with both.

True when it comes to Western MMO's

False when it comes to Eastern MMO's - ArcheAge don't have the time or patiences right now to list things but a simple google search or search on this site will show you some of the times you can do in the game.

Originally posted by Kilsin

True.

I have yet to find a game that comes any where near as close to the amount of freedom and things you could do in UO.

       Except you could do nothing because you were getting ganked every 10 seconds.....It wasn't until Trammell came along that the game became playable.

---

Originally posted by Distopia

---

Originally posted by ahumata Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt: I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.   In UO, besides killing stuff you could: - Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons. - Herd, Tame, train and sell pets - Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting) - Grow plants - Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself. - Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined - Hunt for rares, trade them - Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously) - Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point. - Get on your boat, sail around and explore - Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend" - Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures - Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking - Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc. - Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location) - Run a shop - Scam people in a hundred ways - Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics - Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)   I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.   Good luck matching that to any game released since.

---

You could do a lot of that in SWG go figure though, the two titles shared quite a few developers.

---

agreed, pretty much all that and more in SWG. so while most games fall way, way short i would say the clear cut answer to the original question is false.

Originally posted by ahumata

Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt:

I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.

 

In UO, besides killing stuff you could:

- Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons.

- Herd, Tame, train and sell pets

- Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting)

- Grow plants

- Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself.

- Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined

- Hunt for rares, trade them

- Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously)

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Get on your boat, sail around and explore

- Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend"

- Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

- Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc.

- Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location)

- Run a shop

- Scam people in a hundred ways

- Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics

- Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)

 

I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.

 

Good luck matching that to any game released since.

Let's see, you could do these 30 things in EVE

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/politics/30-things

or maybe these 20 more things in EVE

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/politics/20-things

Of course if you prefer a more pictoral view this might be for you

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg

although personally I am able to think of a few more not on the chart. (and they've since added to the game like planetary exploration/management.

I don't know if this compares to UO, but its a pretty good list and still probably the best title out there today, (UO is a former shell of itself)

I remember a couple of times we'd using Taming and go into the woods and tame every single critter we could find, for hours (sheep, rabbits, etc. I can't even remember) and then herd them all into Brittannia and cause so much lag/clutter we'd crash/ DC half the people in the city.

Good times.

Or we'd tame a dragon and let it loose at the bank and watch all the AFK'ers get gib'd.

I do miss things like treasure hunting / fishing on my boat, collecting stuff for my house, collecting stuff for the guild tower...

Trying to pick pocket at the bank in Yew and make it out of towns before the guards got us.

So many little things that made UO a whole lot more than a game.

The game was so much more than PvP... I feel sorry for anyone who missed out during the height of UO after the Trammel / Felucca split.

What was great about UO was that you could interact with basically everything.

Its basic, but UO had doors that you could open and close. Chairs that you could move arround and sit on. If you saw a chest somewhere, you could open it. There was nothing in the world that was only cosmetic. Thats what made UO so immersive, I think.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by ahumata

Not sure why the list still hasnt been provided. Then again if it had, a lot of people who say "Eve, Perpetuum, this, that" would probably realized they're wrong. I had an active account from 98 to 2008, didnt play much after AoS but still did, so I have no idea what they put in since 2008. More stuff no doubt:

I'm putting this UO list so that people can compare against it and soon find out how short they come on options offered by those other games since UO.

 

In UO, besides killing stuff you could:

- Stealth around picking locked chests in dungeons.

- Herd, Tame, train and sell pets

- Go fishing, fish up rares and lost treasure (the bigger stuff involved fighting)

- Grow plants

- Build, decorate and sell houses. That includes creating new decoration elements through optical illusion, which was a UO art in itself.

- Snoop people's backpacks and steal their stuff if you felt so inclined

- Hunt for rares, trade them

- Harvest all kinds of resources (obviously)

- Cook, tinker, make potions, furniture, clothes you name it, whether it was for use, trade or vanity. Crafting is unrivaled at this point.

- Get on your boat, sail around and explore

- Do a lot of social stuff that was in some way or other supported by game mechanics and not just total "let's pretend"

- Move heavy objects around so to create improvised structures

- Craft and enchant and otherwise modify (color, name) magical items with various properties to your liking

- Salvage and scavenge stuff from anywhere. Pick magical reagents from the wild, smelt or otherwise unmake items, etc.

- Build libraries and rune libraries (allows players to travel around the world from a central location)

- Run a shop

- Scam people in a hundred ways

- Trap and lock boxes and untrap and unlock them, which gave a lot of opportunities for stunts and antics

- Make monsters fight for you so you wouldnt have to do it yourself (I know, technically it's fighting)

 

I'm forgetting a lot of stuff, not to mention the creative things people would always end up doing with the game mechanics that were clearly not intended in the first place and gave the game that sense of freedom.

 

Good luck matching that to any game released since.

Let's see, you could do these 30 things in EVE

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/politics/30-things

or maybe these 20 more things in EVE

http://www.tentonhammer.com/eve/guides/politics/20-things

Of course if you prefer a more pictoral view this might be for you

http://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/eve-wtd.jpg

although personally I am able to think of a few more not on the chart. (and they've since added to the game like planetary exploration/management.

I don't know if this compares to UO, but its a pretty good list and still probably the best title out there today, (UO is a former shell of itself)

 

I looked over a lot of items on that list, and while there were some that seemed unique to Eve...most of them seemed to just be "socialization" type things that could be done in any sandbox MMORPG.

My vote on this topic is true...from all the MMORPGs I've played, nothing has really topped UO in terms of "stuff" you could do.  And this largely stems from the huge amount of world interactivity in UO.

I mean, in UO, if you see a chessboard...you can double click on it and literally play Chess with someone in-game.  If you see a blank book, you can literally write a book in game.  If you see a rolling pin, flour, water, and an oven...you can bake bread.

UO was kind of like a WYSIWYG game in that right.  If you saw anything in game, there was a good chance you could interact with it.  I really don't think any game since has had that degree of interactivity.  In the single player realm, the Elder Scrolls series in the only thing that I think really comes close.

Originally posted by ahumata

I'm putting this UO list ...

Thanks.

It was a pretty pointless thread for people that never played UO, without having a list.

Originally posted by Theocritus

Originally posted by Kilsin

True.

I have yet to find a game that comes any where near as close to the amount of freedom and things you could do in UO.

       Except you could do nothing because you were getting ganked every 10 seconds.....It wasn't until Trammell came along that the game became playable.

That's not what people want to hear.   There was a lot of behind the screens UO dev talk of  'Oh crap, they're doing this now!  How do we fix that??'   Because the constant ganking, greifing, and exploiting was not well liked by the Devs nor by a number of departing players.  (Waves at BadSpock;)

Still the OPs point is pretty valid:  There are very few games with as much freedom as UO.   With that freedom came a host of issues.