people doesn't take the time or effort as to see what the potential synergies are, or simply chose to ignore it all and go with a limited number of abilities and then say most of the abilities are useles??.

Quite funny blaming it on the system, when it's merely personal decision or the lack of attempt.  Gamers always post in the forums they want games that offer this or that, that makes them think, that give them some freedom... etc, etc...  but many just go an ignore those when any game gives them.

Funny, apparently gamers don't really know what they want, cause usually what they say is far away from what they do.

Originally posted by Dakirn

Originally posted by Khaeros

Delicate Strike from Blade builds for both weapons and with a cheap passive, has an extra 10% chance to penetrate.  Suddenly you have your main builder for almost every blade pen build ever, and it costs you 1 AP.

 

The inconsistency is amazing, though.  Some elites are worthless, while some normals are just so powerful that it's hard to build out of them.  Bloodsport is a Fist passive that allows all your attacks to put up affliction with only a little investment into the outer wheel, which can be used to power any affliction build.  Now add 12 Gouge (another minimal investment into an outer wheel), and you can now exploit afflicted on penetrating hits to provide weaken.  At least Close Quarters is an elite - because that pretty much provides a constant hinder effect as long as you attack someone in melee range.

 

Red Mist is probably the only elite that belongs where it's at.

Delicate Strike and Delicate Precision are ok to start with but there are much better combinations.  You're using a gimped builder with a passive that only works for that builder when you could be using a more advanced builder that also works off of other effects and another passive that builds Penetration buff counters.  Fatal Flourish will give you Penetration stacks each time you hit an Afflicted target.

 

Since you mentioned adding in Bloodsport, lets see what else you could do by using Fatal Flourish instead of Delicate Precision.  Note that each hit builds +30 Precision up to a max of 5 stacks compared to a flat 10%.  This stacked penetration buff works for all attacks and not just your builder.

 

Grass Cutter hits for more damage on Afflicted targets.

Matador would give you 1 Defensive stack.

 

This build would be superior to the one that you mentioned.  Yes it costs 1 more AP but now you can stack up to +150 Penetration, Affliction, a stack buff up to +150 defense.  In all ways superior to your original build which was designed as a bridge to a more advanced build and not something to be used for the entire game.

 

Bloodsport has a downside.  If you glance on a target it removes all stacks of the Affliction that are running.  That doesn't stop "when you Afflict a target" but it can hurt "when you hit an Afflicted target."

 

12 Gauge only works on Penetration.  Considering you need to build 10 stacks to get the maximum Weaken buff that's 10 Penetrates which is a pretty hard thing to do before the debuff wears off.

 

There are synergies everywhere.  The skill tree is incredibly well thought out.  There are probably some things that could be better but calling 300+ abilities useless isn't near accurate (not saying that you did this but as a general note).

Delicate Strike is hardly gimp on a build that wants to Penetrate as much as possible. It's pretty damn BiS as a builder if your that's your goal. The Pen rating and the +10% chance to Pen on Delicate Strike stack.

It's very common for me to Penetrate a single target many times in a row with Delicate.

I also run Bloodsport to apply Affliction, Dark Potency to give me Pen Rating on every application of Afflicted (Every hit), and Iron Maiden that gives me a +10% chance to Penetrate buff when I penetrate an Afflicted target. 

So as my objective with Blade/Rifle is to penetrate as much as possible, no, Delicate Strike isn't gimped.

Originally posted by ericbelser

This was one of the big design element complaints I had in the beta; there is a LOT of functional duplication and incremental upgrade in that skill wheel. Don't get me wrong, it still offers a lot of versatility compared to the WoW-style skill tree/point system but it never delivered on the number of 'unique' skills/builds the games hype claimed for it. Combined with the lack of racial or factional differences, it makes the actual number of distinct options open to players a lot closer to a 'standard' MMO than the rabid fans claimed ;)

 

The similar abilities are just similar. This is required for different builds. There are some almost equal but with different triggers or exploits. If you only look from your point of view many of them are useless. But for a broader audience those are real choices.

Some people's fat is another person's Bacon! :)

I think people frankly dismiss the complexity. They say - "hey this sounds like that or hey this does more damage for no reason, and it even costs less points to unlock... well thats just dumb"

Using Corrupted status on vampires - just for one example, makes a big difference. There are a lot of mobs that seem harder because folks miss what they can do.

In game chat, someone was complaining how come a tier one skill did more damage than a tier two. They didn't recognize the tier one has no trigger or subtype. So maybe bigger bang but no bells or whistles.

I won't argue that there may be some redundancy in the wheel - but I also think it's intentional to a point, and not for lack of vision. Such as there being multiple ways to get Crit Rating buff. Having 500+ abilities lessens redundancy impact.

We also have no idea what AA paths Ragnar is thinking of, and I believe they are thinking of them.

I like being able to consider different approachs using the same character, do I go strike, chain, or burst? Do I want affliction or hindered? What can be boosted by using any one of those? Can I go cookie cutter? Sure, but is it necessary or fun in this system? I don't think so.

With the number of skills as time goes by I hope to see more interesting attempts by players. Instead of generally spamming Escalation or Bamboo Cutter because those "work". Think outside the skill tree a bit and explore the wheel. 

Build advice:  use assault rifle.

Originally posted by Gargola

people doesn't take the time or effort as to see what the potential synergies are, or simply chose to ignore it all and go with a limited number of abilities and then say most of the abilities are useles??.

 

Quite funny blaming it on the system, when it's merely personal decision or the lack of attempt.  Gamers always post in the forums they want games that offer this or that, that makes them think, that give them some freedom... etc, etc...  but many just go an ignore those when any game gives them.

 

Funny, apparently gamers don't really know what they want, cause usually what they say is far away from what they do.

There are a number of skills that simply suck.  This is especially noticeable in the passives.  Some passives give exactly the same effect at exactly the same amount with exactly the same amount of stacks but one triggers on a rarer or conditional effect and the other doesn't.  Thus making one clearly superior.  The only reason you would use the inferior one is when you are initially AP poor.  It will later be made completely obsolete.

Things are not entirely balanced.  There are not always good tradeoffs.  Some paaives simply are inferior in comparison with a close analog.

Originally posted by DMKano
At least that is my conclusion after unlocking more and more of the wheel. They could have easily eliminated 300 or so skills and just kept the good ones, but I guess the game sells better when you say over 500 skills to chose from. I know that it would be hard to come up with 500 useful and good skills, it just seems that the skill wheel is a lot smaller when you eliminate all the fat.

You just don't understand the mechanics.

if the mechanics of the game are so obscure, convoluted that a large portion of its customers are having issues with it then maybe the game doesnt explain in a sufficent way the way things work. I think the skill wheel descriptions and the skill search function could use A LOT of work . I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

Originally posted by Kenze

I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

Well they alienated a bunch of "WoWkids" when they put cursing in the game and nipples on monsters, I see no issue alienating those who are unable to comprehend either. Weed them both out because I rather like not playing with either one of those demographics personally, seems to me Funcom has the right idea.

Originally posted by moreblahblah

Originally posted by Kenze

I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

Well they alienated a bunch of "WoWkids" when they put cursing in the game and nipples on monsters, I see no issue alienating those who are unable to comprehend either. Weed them both out because I rather like not playing with either one of those demographics personally, seems to me Funcom has the right idea.

No worries, panda mist and gw2 should clear tsw of all the kiddies and broseph's at least for a short time.

Id much prefer a smaller "nornal" community and live with the realization the game wont have 20mil subs and 50 servers packed with people i dont want to converse with.

Originally posted by Kenze

..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

You don't need to do any of that. This isn't another Eve. Long as you read the descriptions of the skills you can figure things out easily.

Seems some simply can't be bothered though. They have plenty of Decks available to help a player get started as well.

Originally posted by Kenze

if the mechanics of the game are so obscure, convoluted that a large portion of its customers are having issues with it then maybe the game doesnt explain in a sufficent way the way things work. I think the skill wheel descriptions and the skill search function could use A LOT of work . I know alot of fanboys will start yapping about the game isnt for mouthbreather WoWkids etcs..but can Funcom afford to alienate potential longterm, steady customers who otherwise love the game but find "theorycrafting", spreadsheets and synergy diagrams to confusing and daunting to deal with?

isnt providing better info  and easier to understand mechanics that make sense to ALL including the lowest common a "dumbing down" everyone should be able to live with?

I stuggle sometimes and i like it. The tutorial doesnt end after Kingsmouth. It is a bit weird at the beginning. But its easy to try different builds and slowly you understand whats going on in combat.

Do not bother to much about abilities. The inner ring is good. What counts is SP and the QL of items. Vertical progression and understanding is a bit complex but not required for 2-3 zones. Enjoy the games stories and learn slowly by doing. Just be prepaired that Funcom is kicking your shin once in a while ;) Those norse guys think thats funny LOL