Can anyone here who is calling TSW a multiplayer co-op and a single player game name one single game where you were not able to solo in?  Excluding group content since thats been excluded for all the complaints regarding TSW...

Go ahead lets see the list of games where, excluding group specific content, that you had to group up to progress.  Im sure this will be ignored by those very people.

Need to find a new straw man to bash this game.  Your combat complaints were better since its an extremely objective mechanic and most of you beta testers who are doing the complaining were subjected to the most basic and shallow skills.  Its much less of a strawman than the co-op statement.

Anyone want to bet they dont reply to this?  Its that bad of a strawman argument.

If you feel alone you need  to open your eyes there are people everywhere...if you NEED to group with people to have fun you can group with anyone at any time and its a very common occurance in the game, yes even for the missions.  You see more people running around in pairs and threesomes than you do alone.

I understand how you feel about that "alone" issue OP. I think most new games suffer from that issue. Where players get into a game and steam roll everything by themselves without requiring a group. This was not the case, lets say with Vanguard and all the older MMO's.

From my experiance with TSW I never felt the need to group or chat with anyone because the quest system was pretty easy to figure out. I know that in other areas you may need to group up for certain mobs or quest lines. But I do agree with you that when I started playing, even though i saw other players running around I honestly did not care to speak to them. I know that its my personal choice, but there was no reason for me to stop and start a conversation since the content was very easy if you had a good deck.

This is def a very realistic problem with modern MMO's. A lot of content is being focused on a single player experiance moreso than party. I feel that is something Tera did right, where BAMS and thickly settled mobs gently nudged you to get into groups. However for example...SWOTR/TSW, you aren't really required to talk to anyone if you don't want to and I feel that hurts the games moreso then their bad overall designs.

I hope that GW2 and future MMO's break this current trend. We need more community in our MMO's.. if I want a single player experiance I will go grab The Witcher franchise and have at it.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

I hope that GW2 and future MMO's break this current trend. We need more community in our MMO's.. if I want a single player experiance I will go grab The Witcher franchise and have at it.

GW2 isn't going to break this. It is going to be the same way. How much socialization or community you experience will be up to the player.

This isn't the fault of the games. If players can't socialize or form a community on their own unless they have group content forced upon them then...well...rather sad really.

Originally posted by Wakygreek

I understand how you feel about that "alone" issue OP. I think most new games suffer from that issue. Where players get into a game and steam roll everything by themselves without requiring a group. This was not the case, lets say with Vanguard and all the older MMO's.

From my experiance with TSW I never felt the need to group or chat with anyone because the quest system was pretty easy to figure out. I know that in other areas you may need to group up for certain mobs or quest lines. But I do agree with you that when I started playing, even though i saw other players running around I honestly did not care to speak to them. I know that its my personal choice, but there was no reason for me to stop and start a conversation since the content was very easy if you had a good deck.

This is def a very realistic problem with modern MMO's. A lot of content is being focused on a single player experiance moreso than party. I feel that is something Tera did right, where BAMS and thickly settled mobs gently nudged you to get into groups. However for example...SWOTR/TSW, you aren't really required to talk to anyone if you don't want to and I feel that hurts the games moreso then their bad overall designs.

I hope that GW2 and future MMO's break this current trend. We need more community in our MMO's.. if I want a single player experiance I will go grab The Witcher franchise and have at it.

I can understand this.  Its a double edge sword with solo content.  Older games where you needed to farm elite mobs in a group or risk progressing at a snails pace fielded far too many complaints that it was too much of a pain to find a group and you need to find a group to even play.  People didnt like this, they wanted to option to hop on after work and play a few hours...not spend 1hr finding a group and needing to spend several hours without a break farming mobs just so you can get 10% a level.

On the otherhand, dont make the game force group play or prevent progression and a few very vocal people are up in arms that not only can they complete the game in a week or two playing 18 hours a day 7 days a week, but also that they dont NEED to group...and without needing to group they are completely helpless as to how to group, since asking people or tossing invites is out of the question.

If you love grouping, and i do, there is nothing stopping you from doing so.  Ive never been told "sorry im not grouping the content will be too easy if i do" or "sorry no groups this is a single player mission" People will gladly group in this game, even if *gasp* the content can be cleared alone.

And if your thinking GW2 will break whateve trend it is thats making people want to solo so much, think again, dungeons just for fun no loot, automatic zerg groups for DE, cross server pvp with random people...

I realize that this is a game that really bothers some people and it must be stopped but at least lets be rational with our reasons for hating the game...cant we think of anything convincing or at least realistic?

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Wakygreek

I hope that GW2 and future MMO's break this current trend. We need more community in our MMO's.. if I want a single player experiance I will go grab The Witcher franchise and have at it.

GW2 isn't going to break this. It is going to be the same way. How much socialization or community you experience will be up to the player.

This isn't the fault of the games. If players can't socialize or form a community on their own unless they have group content forced upon them then...well...rather sad really.

This a thousand times.  Besides are you really going to want to associate with the GW2 crowd?  Brace yourselves for a nasty surprise if you think the GW2 community is going to be anything, but caustic.

i wouldn't nder any circumstance would say that TSW's advance is "slow".

Games don't force you to socialize or group save for some specific content.  That is not "good design" but punitive design for those that don' want to do it all the time.

Games should make teaming and soloing viable, with teaming likely being a more efficient way to tackle contnet.  TSW does this for all but the specific solo missions.

I've teamed fro investigation missions, action ones, to get thru sabotage missions even.  Which in some cases was a godsend, cause being able to group kill the bastard mob that saw us and came with reinforcements is 10k times better than having to run away hoping the rest of the camp don't jump on you or dying and having to start again 8as walking back to your corpse could mean the patrol was nearby and now you face them with lowered HP...

Teaming is not mandatory, but it's quite effective.  You can even end up cooperating with a bunch of random people to tackle a puzzle (like the refractive crystals in Egypt and several others) or to kill a boss on a potentially dangerous camp (like jack o'lantern and several others)

Same with the elite camps in every area. If you try and go there solo, at anything less than ql9 or 10 you won't really do much.  And there are a few misisons that send you to them, starting in BM.

Originally posted by Siveria
[mod edit]

Ok so you played halfway through Kingsmouth? Way to put in some time.  I also have to question your honesty when you say that the quests are the same thing over and over. If there is one thing I can say about TSW is that the questing is very varied and rarely repeats itself compared to most MMOs, In fact I would say it's one of the strongest selling points of the game.

lol the secret world is slow progression and this is coming from a gamer who plays like 5 or 6 hours a day. If you have to repeat content over and over to progress then its slow. You go ahead in TSW and do each quest once and see how far you get in the game until your going back and finding a second build or third...

Also Funcom does a really crap job of introducing the game to new players . It throws you into a tutorial witha  shotgun that is hectic and chaotic for a new player who knows nothing about the game. Then once leaving the starting tutorial your on your way to solo content for awhile. Sure quests are fun if you like the horror genre and zombies and the investigations can be fun if you have patience.

The reason communities in the old days are still talked about is the forced grouping of games like EQ and DAOC. If you wanted to play their games back in the days you had to suck it up find a guild and be social. But companies like blizzard said hey we can attract a lot more players if we make everything easy and solo . Hence look whos the winner? regardless of our opinions here...... You guys can insult the OP all you want about not liking to repeat quests or go out and explore for them randomly but there is tons of players out there just like him that do not think TSW is great. Heck im bored to death of it at faction rank 9 and not even finishing my sub as its the same ol repeat content in every single zone in the game.

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Ok so you played halfway through Kingsmouth? Way to put in some time.  I also have to question your honesty when you say that the quests are the same thing over and over. If there is one thing I can say about TSW is that the questing is very varied and rarely repeats itself compared to most MMOs, In fact I would say it's one of the strongest selling points of the game.

 Yeah...I have to agree.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Lazarus71

Ok so you played halfway through Kingsmouth? Way to put in some time.  I also have to question your honesty when you say that the quests are the same thing over and over. If there is one thing I can say about TSW is that the questing is very varied and rarely repeats itself compared to most MMOs, In fact I would say it's one of the strongest selling points of the game.

 Yeah...I have to agree.

Well I mean sure you have your standard go here and kill x number of y quests but the story, puzzle and investigations aspects more than make up for those. Also the setting and atmosphere are top notch.

Originally posted by cronius77

lol the secret world is slow progression and this is coming from a gamer who plays like 5 or 6 hours a day. If you have to repeat content over and over to progress then its slow. You go ahead in TSW and do each quest once and see how far you get in the game until your going back and finding a second build or third...

Also Funcom does a really crap job of introducing the game to new players . It throws you into a tutorial witha  shotgun that is hectic and chaotic for a new player who knows nothing about the game. Then once leaving the starting tutorial your on your way to solo content for awhile. Sure quests are fun if you like the horror genre and zombies and the investigations can be fun if you have patience.

The reason communities in the old days are still talked about is the forced grouping of games like EQ and DAOC. If you wanted to play their games back in the days you had to suck it up find a guild and be social. But companies like blizzard said hey we can attract a lot more players if we make everything easy and solo . Hence look whos the winner? regardless of our opinions here...... You guys can insult the OP all you want about not liking to repeat quests or go out and explore for them randomly but there is tons of players out there just like him that do not think TSW is great. Heck im bored to death of it at faction rank 9 and not even finishing my sub as its the same ol repeat content in every single zone in the game.

thank you for your reply,

i wish more people that share this mans opinion would post in this thread, for the sake of my sanity. 

Originally posted by Unkillable

Originally posted by cronius77

lol the secret world is slow progression and this is coming from a gamer who plays like 5 or 6 hours a day. If you have to repeat content over and over to progress then its slow. You go ahead in TSW and do each quest once and see how far you get in the game until your going back and finding a second build or third...

Also Funcom does a really crap job of introducing the game to new players . It throws you into a tutorial witha  shotgun that is hectic and chaotic for a new player who knows nothing about the game. Then once leaving the starting tutorial your on your way to solo content for awhile. Sure quests are fun if you like the horror genre and zombies and the investigations can be fun if you have patience.

The reason communities in the old days are still talked about is the forced grouping of games like EQ and DAOC. If you wanted to play their games back in the days you had to suck it up find a guild and be social. But companies like blizzard said hey we can attract a lot more players if we make everything easy and solo . Hence look whos the winner? regardless of our opinions here...... You guys can insult the OP all you want about not liking to repeat quests or go out and explore for them randomly but there is tons of players out there just like him that do not think TSW is great. Heck im bored to death of it at faction rank 9 and not even finishing my sub as its the same ol repeat content in every single zone in the game.

thank you for your reply,

i wish more people that share this mans opinion would post in this thread, for the sake of my sanity. 

You mean TSW should have rather kept all the repeatable content in the "endgame", like all other MMO's do ?

Instead, you have a much wider choice of repeatable content, and you're complaining ? 

Why would you need to repeat content over and over to progress?  I haven't repeated more than a handful of quests, i heven't "redone" any area, i haven't even really completed all misisons in any of the solomon island, just arrived Egypt, have builds for tanking, dps, healing, and soloing, as in more than one for each save for healing...

how is it too slow or why would you need to keep redoing the same thing to advance.

But i guess that as for some it was too short for others it would be too slow...

I've only been playing a week but I am far from lonely in game since I see people running all over Kingsmouth and general chat seems to be across multiple dimensions so it looks like barrens chat at times.

If you like running quests then the advancement system is pretty fast, but as someone who enjoys leveling by killing mobs, it does feel extremely slow. It's a personal choice for me to do fun things, like killing people and NPCs, but most MMOs today seem to frown upon that play style. They give you much higher rewards for doing boring things, like collecting items for random NPCs. TSW is no different in that aspect. The quests are more fun than most every other MMO I've played, but they still boil down to performing a random task for a random NPC for a large EXP reward.

I'm not sure what kind of explanation you need for acquiring new gear or advancing. You get adequate gear for the area you are leveling in from drops and quest rewards. The game also has quests to teach you how to disassemble items and craft your own gear so if you need to fill a slot, you can make your own from all the junk loot you find along the way. There are also vendors who sell weapons and items for every slot.

@Cronius77

I haven't repeated any content at all, though I'm only in The Scorched Desert.  I've had zero problems progressing.  Getting thrown into things in the beginning with a shotgun at the beginning didn't bother me and I liked it.  I can see some people might have a problem with it if they don't play games that often.  Games like EQ, which I played for years starting in '99, did force grouping on most classes.  If you didn't want to do this you could play a bard/necro/mage.  But being one of the other classes and sitting for a couple hours trying to find/build a group, that type of stuff is for hardcore players that will sit on a game for hours on end.  The last time I did this was in FFXI.  I remember sitting for 4 plus hours looking for a group for something.  I didn't find one.  I logged out and never played the game again.  So forced grouping is simply not going to happen in any mainstream game.  Why?  Because then it won't be mainstream due to popularity, with the time requirements involved.  As far as hand holding quest hub to quest hub, it's been done and there are plenty of choices out there for that.  EQ and others which you mention in the same paragraph didn't have any of that, and it was much more difficult to find what few quests there were.  Honestly I'm not sure where your interests lie with the conflicting statements.

Originally posted by Murashu

I've only been playing a week but I am far from lonely in game since I see people running all over Kingsmouth and general chat seems to be across multiple dimensions so it looks like barrens chat at times.

 

If you like running quests then the advancement system is pretty fast, but as someone who enjoys leveling by killing mobs, it does feel extremely slow. It's a personal choice for me to do fun things, like killing people and NPCs, but most MMOs today seem to frown upon that play style. They give you much higher rewards for doing boring things, like collecting items for random NPCs. TSW is no different in that aspect. The quests are more fun than most every other MMO I've played, but they still boil down to performing a random task for a random NPC for a large EXP reward.

 

I'm not sure what kind of explanation you need for acquiring new gear or advancing. You get adequate gear for the area you are leveling in from drops and quest rewards. The game also has quests to teach you how to disassemble items and craft your own gear so if you need to fill a slot, you can make your own from all the junk loot you find along the way. There are also vendors who sell weapons and items for every slot.

 

 

General chat is not cross dimensions, all that you see there is from your own server, and people that's in your game "region" as it's also not global but local.  If you see people in any chat with a * before his name it means he is "visiting" your dimension, but actually belongs to a different one.

I think FC got way too many complaints from "heck" leveling in AO so they want to keep that (mob grinding leveling) under a very short leash.  I always wondered how much slower would it be to "level" up by hunting the thougher mobs in groups, or "grinding" them in TSW.    In some Egypt and on elite camps (i'm QL 6 atm) i was getting more AP notices than i was experiencing before, but that could be just perception.

Probably will do that testing once i'm comfortably "done" with the main story, at some point.

Doing this would guarantee you'll get enough materials and kits to craft a ton, tho.

Originally posted by drakaena
This game just screams single player rpg with some co-rpg features. What did you expect?

All mmorpg's made after 2004 scream single player, nothing new here. Its the era of the Console Gamer and iPad / Tablet junkies when it comes to gaming online.

The old school days of EQ, AC, AO and SWG are over. We are in a different time where the generation wants instant gratification and wants there character in any mmorpg to be a tank, healer and dps all in 1 character.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Wakygreek

I hope that GW2 and future MMO's break this current trend. We need more community in our MMO's.. if I want a single player experiance I will go grab The Witcher franchise and have at it.

GW2 isn't going to break this. It is going to be the same way. How much socialization or community you experience will be up to the player.

This isn't the fault of the games. If players can't socialize or form a community on their own unless they have group content forced upon them then...well...rather sad really

Thank you!!! I get so tired of reading posts that expect games to teach players how to socialize. People are able to do it every day on facebook without some carrot dangling in front of them. Even that doesn't seem to matter anymore. TOR offered extra XP for grouping along with countless group content and players STILL bitched about it being a single player game. A developer can put every LFG type system in existence into a game and if the players choose to not use it there is nothing that can be done.  Almost every MMO has a guild system of some type that is very accessible. That should be all you need if you REALLY do care about a group experience and playing with others.

•  There's nothig stopping players from randomly popping in and helping others when they're getting a beatdown.
• There's nothing stopping a player from joining a group of like minded players and doing stuff with them.
• There's nothing stopping players from forming their own community. 

If players don't make the effort to meet people, no system created by any devloper is going to change that. For all the tough talk around here about how communities don't form in these games, it's very interesting how many of them are from posters who refuse to join a guild and become part of a ..um...community. 

Originally posted by P4YB4CK

Originally posted by drakaena
This game just screams single player rpg with some co-rpg features. What did you expect?

All mmorpg's made after 2004 scream single player, nothing new here. Its the era of the Console Gamer and iPad / Tablet junkies when it comes to gaming online.

The old school days of EQ, AC, AO and SWG are over. We are in a different time where the generation wants instant gratification and wants there character in any mmorpg to be a tank, healer and dps all in 1 character.

Considering that there's still a low population of healers and tanks in the game (while it's possible to have builds for all, but most are reluctant to do anything other than DPS) it doens't seem the case.

Most gamers now a days are the same there were back then, just older.  Which also mean most have less time.  WHich also mean they likely got to grind endlessly many of those older games.  the ones that have pushed the genre away form endless grinds, and towards more casual friendly outset are the ones that made the oldschool MMO's thrive.  Life changes, people has less gaming time, have kids, business, etc, etc... and now all of a sudden having to stay online 5 hours to complete something is no longer good, cause it's not good for most players, due to real life.
 

Most MMO gamers are over 30 y/o, and as much as they love their memories in UO or the years it took to got to 220 in AO, or whatever game they played 10 or 15 years ago, they no longer would do the same.

Rather have a good experience that can be enjoyed playing 2-4 hours 3-5 days a week than being frustrated by not being able to actually progress within your real time budget.

If people would still be willing to play like we played back then, games would be like those, and we would still take months or years to reach "endgame"

[mod edit] Same story and old news. Either you like the game or not, doesn't need to be said any more.

I enjoy the game vs any other MMO out  now. Doesn't make it the best, but makes it the best for my money. [mod edit]