Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Istavaan

Exactly TESO is not an MMO it's an online RPG!

All of this without even playing the game. Make sense *rolls eyes*

Read the interview..........it is Matt Firor himself who said TESO is an Online RPG.

Not sure if serious.

Go to the main website, it clearly states mmorpg. It's a play on words. Ever heard of such a thing? Can i know what seems to be less mmo from what we've heard. I haven't seen anything about lobby based, co-op anything.

Hey we are commenting on Matt Firor interview, not on the game FAQs

An Matt Firor says that what they are doing is an Online RPG.

So what? It's a play. on. words. Everything that as been said about this game, everywhere, is that it's an mmorpg. Stop focusing so much on a small interview quote. He never even said it wasn't an mmo

I just find it curious that Matt admitted something I was thinking while reading all Zenimax interviews, which is that TESO looks like more like an Online RPG very story driven and quite casual (like SWTOR and TSW), rather than a classic MMO

That's why I linked this interview, which other than that doesn't add anything new.

 The damm story thing again? Anwer me this, what is the difference between a story driven themepark and non story driven themepark? None. Both have quests, dunegons, etc. Story simply means increasign the cinematic, lore aspect of the game. SWTOR is abit more different, because it as a full single player literally inside the mmo.

TSW "story" is more like lore. Beyond that, it as just as much mmo in is as, oh i don't know, WOW, RIFT, TERA, WAR, AOC, GW2, AION, etc, etc, etc. You know, themeparks. They're mmorpgs just like any.

 

 

 

 

Originally posted by Valentina

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.

If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.

Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.

I am unclear as to how this makes any difference regarding single player vs MMO vs what MMOs do now? I think my head just exploded. How does it work for a single player experience but not as an MMO and how are current MMOs differ...oh never mind my head just hurts reading that.

Originally posted by ste2000

So I actually expect the game to be pushed back a couple of years, and sure I will be waiting.

I just wanna play a TES game in a MMO environment, not another WOW clone, is it too much to ask?

So I can wait, and I bet I am not the only one.

 

 

But there are things that can be added, like player housing and a player driven economy (Yes it's hard Matt, I know), and something they can improved, like combat for example.

Sorry mate but I can literally BET that they will NOT push back release by 'couple of years' and make what you want.

I get why you're angry and disappointed from info that was released thus far about TESO. 

I would also want more player-driven game, more focus on economy and general virtual world and not on heavy-story and convenience.

Still NOTHING just nothing points or even suggest that Zenimax / Bethseda will want or even take into faintest consideration to change game.

They rather defend their design which kinda suggest that they will release what they did.

I know that's not what you want to hear. Hell I don't "hear" it myself.

Still that's what it seems.  From what they told till now, they plan to release conveniant, store-heavy themepark for widest audience possible, which suggest game like Swtor or WoW depending on what they will put more focus on.

Absolutely nothing suggest that they want or even consider core design changes to add open world housing, player-made economy or any sandbox features.

If you will be lucky they will add some kind of instanced housing. Like Lotro did.

Kinda pointless imo but well some people like that.

Originally posted by Valentina

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.

If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.

Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.

where did i say that Skyrim would be a good MMO? i didnt. I was just making the point that this IP was NOT the reason why 10 million people bought this game. I have a huge group of friends who game. They all loved Skyrim....most didnt even know about ES before Skyrim....now they are all playing oblivion and Morrowind. When I told them about Elderscrolls online they laughed in my face and said it looked terrible.......this IP wont save this gamr if its a boring WoW clone....which it looks like it will be.

Originally posted by Valentina

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.

If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.

Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.

I don't usually disagree with every single word of a post but yours is special. I think you are wrong about nearly every single thing in this post.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.

And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.

Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens

Darkfall

Thing is, put a bl*wtard in your game and it doesnt matter what game it is. The same problem will exist in an open world system, closed WoWish formula or even checkers. There is nothing different about Skyrim that would make that more of an issue then any other game out there

Originally posted by RoyalPhunk

Originally posted by Valentina

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.

If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.

Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.

I don't usually disagree with every single word of a post but yours is special. I think you are wrong about nearly every single thing in this post.

everything he said sounded like something zenimax would say only it actually made even less sense.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by ste2000

Hey we are commenting on Matt Firor interview, not on the game FAQs

An Matt Firor says that what they are doing is an Online RPG.

So what? It's a play. on. words. Everything that as been said about this game, everywhere, is that it's an mmorpg. Stop focusing so much on a small interview quote. He never even said it wasn't an mmo

I just find it curious that Matt admitted something I was thinking while reading all Zenimax interviews, which is that TESO looks like more like an Online RPG very story driven and quite casual (like SWTOR and TSW), rather than a classic MMO

That's why I linked this interview, which other than that doesn't add anything new.

 The damm story thing again? Anwer me this, what is the difference between a story driven themepark and non story driven themepark? None. Both have quests, dunegons, etc. Story simply means increasign the cinematic, lore aspect of the game. SWTOR is abit more different, because it as a full single player literally inside the mmo.

TSW "story" is more like lore. Beyond that, it as just as much mmo in is as, oh i don't know, WOW, RIFT, TERA, WAR, AOC, GW2, AION, etc, etc, etc. You know, themeparks. They're mmorpgs just like any.

Actually it is very easy to understand the difference between a story driven MMO, and a classic MMO.

A story driven MMO has is strenght on the story but it is very weak on MMO elements, so what happens is that once you run out of storylines the MMO elements are not strong enough to support the game once the main feature (the story) is done.

That's why I call SWTOR and TSW, Online RPGs (yes they are technically MMORPG), because once the story is gone, the players will go too, and that's because the MMO part of the game is rather weak and won't hold players for long.

A classic MMO obviously doesn't rely too much on the RPG element (mainly story) and has its strenght on the MMO elements which incentivate  the players to play together or against each other (MMO), rather than spending 90% of the time going through a storyline in complete solitude like it happens in SWTOR and TSW (and in any single player RPG).

The fact that lots of classic MMO have failed though it is not because the original idea of MMORPGs (playing together or against each other) is now obsolete, but rather because developers decided that it was a good idea to copy/paste WOW rather than evolving the MMO genre to a different direction, with new ideas.

Zenimax looks like is NOT going to be the ones who revolutionise the genres either, settling for a MMO which sits between WOW and SWTOR.

You know, the funny things is that I was saying the same exact things about SWTOR 2 years before it was released, while the majority of SWTOR fanboys were trying to convince everyone and themselves that SWTOR wasn't going to be just about the story but it would be the WOW killer.

I always said that SWTOR was going to be basically KOTOR Online, and I wasn't wrong.

I am saying the same things about TSW which has just being released and still has lots of support, but I predict that in a couple of months time, after people run out of stories,  it will follow SWTOR fate

So don't say that no one didn't see it coming, because to me it is obvious it will end up that way.

Over the decades and really starting with the very first 'dungeons and dragons' PC game there has been a misunderstanding of RPG as it relates to story vs framework.

Although traditional RPGs are very story focused the story is not the game, its an INSTANCE of the game activity.

So in other words the RPG world, game rules, mechanics etc is the game board and the 'story' is you playing that game it is not however the game itself. 'The Story' is only one of ton stories that can be possible on that same game board.

This is something that the industry sometimes dosent fully understand and it started with the very first eletronic D&D game which took the approach of a single D&D sitdown instead of providing a framework for people to create their own stories.

radically different approaches

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by ste2000

Hey we are commenting on Matt Firor interview, not on the game FAQs

An Matt Firor says that what they are doing is an Online RPG.

So what? It's a play. on. words. Everything that as been said about this game, everywhere, is that it's an mmorpg. Stop focusing so much on a small interview quote. He never even said it wasn't an mmo

I just find it curious that Matt admitted something I was thinking while reading all Zenimax interviews, which is that TESO looks like more like an Online RPG very story driven and quite casual (like SWTOR and TSW), rather than a classic MMO

That's why I linked this interview, which other than that doesn't add anything new.

 The damm story thing again? Anwer me this, what is the difference between a story driven themepark and non story driven themepark? None. Both have quests, dunegons, etc. Story simply means increasign the cinematic, lore aspect of the game. SWTOR is abit more different, because it as a full single player literally inside the mmo.

TSW "story" is more like lore. Beyond that, it as just as much mmo in is as, oh i don't know, WOW, RIFT, TERA, WAR, AOC, GW2, AION, etc, etc, etc. You know, themeparks. They're mmorpgs just like any.

Actually it is very easy to understand the difference between a story driven MMO, and a classic MMO.

A story driven MMO has is strenght on the story but it is very weak on MMO elements, so what happens is that once you run out of storylines the MMO elements are not strong enough to support the game once the main feature (the story) is done.

That's why I call SWTOR and TSW, Online RPGs (yes they are technically MMORPG), because once the story is gone, the players will go too, and that's because the MMO part of the game is rather weak and won't hold players for long.

A classic MMO obviously doesn't rely too much on the RPG element (mainly story) and has its strenght on the MMO elements which incentivate  the players to play together or against each other (MMO), rather than spending 90% of the time going through a storyline in complete solitude like it happens in SWTOR and TSW (and in any single player RPG).

 

The fact that lots of classic MMO have failed though it is not because the original idea of MMORPGs (playing together or against each other) is now obsolete, but rather because developers decided that it was a good idea to copy/paste WOW rather than evolving the MMO genre to a different direction, with new ideas.

Zenimax looks like is NOT going to be the ones who revolutionise the genres either, settling for a MMO which sits between WOW and SWTOR.

 

You know, the funny things is that I was saying the same exact things about SWTOR 2 years before it was released, while the majority of SWTOR fanboys were trying to convince everyone and themselves that SWTOR wasn't going to be just about the story but it would be the WOW killer.

I always said that SWTOR was going to be basically KOTOR Online, and I wasn't wrong.

I am saying the same things about TSW which has just being released and still has lots of support, but I predict that in a couple of months time, after people run out of stories,  it will follow SWTOR fate

So don't say that no one didn't see it coming, because to me it is obvious it will end up that way.

Teeehee, I enjoy your posts.

But if we had babies I wouldnt allow you to teach them words like incentivate. Is that like a mash up of motivate and provide incentive? I love it!

INCENTIVATE!!!

Originally posted by ste2000

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by ste2000

Hey we are commenting on Matt Firor interview, not on the game FAQs

An Matt Firor says that what they are doing is an Online RPG.

So what? It's a play. on. words. Everything that as been said about this game, everywhere, is that it's an mmorpg. Stop focusing so much on a small interview quote. He never even said it wasn't an mmo

I just find it curious that Matt admitted something I was thinking while reading all Zenimax interviews, which is that TESO looks like more like an Online RPG very story driven and quite casual (like SWTOR and TSW), rather than a classic MMO

That's why I linked this interview, which other than that doesn't add anything new.

 The damm story thing again? Anwer me this, what is the difference between a story driven themepark and non story driven themepark? None. Both have quests, dunegons, etc. Story simply means increasign the cinematic, lore aspect of the game. SWTOR is abit more different, because it as a full single player literally inside the mmo.

TSW "story" is more like lore. Beyond that, it as just as much mmo in is as, oh i don't know, WOW, RIFT, TERA, WAR, AOC, GW2, AION, etc, etc, etc. You know, themeparks. They're mmorpgs just like any.

Actually it is very easy to understand the difference between a story driven MMO, and a classic MMO.

A story driven MMO has is strenght on the story but it is very weak on MMO elements, so what happens is that once you run out of storylines the MMO elements are not strong enough to support the game once the main feature (the story) is done.

That's why I call SWTOR and TSW, Online RPGs (yes they are technically MMORPG), because once the story is gone, the players will go too, and that's because the MMO part of the game is rather weak and won't hold players for long.

A classic MMO obviously doesn't rely too much on the RPG element (mainly story) and has its strenght on the MMO elements which incentivate  the players to play together or against each other (MMO), rather than spending 90% of the time going through a storyline in complete solitude like it happens in SWTOR and TSW (and in any single player RPG).

 

The fact that lots of classic MMO have failed though it is not because the original idea of MMORPGs (playing together or against each other) is now obsolete, but rather because developers decided that it was a good idea to copy/paste WOW rather than evolving the MMO genre to a different direction, with new ideas.

Zenimax looks like is NOT going to be the ones who revolutionise the genres either, settling for a MMO which sits between WOW and SWTOR.

 

You know, the funny things is that I was saying the same exact things about SWTOR 2 years before it was released, while the majority of SWTOR fanboys were trying to convince everyone and themselves that SWTOR wasn't going to be just about the story but it would be the WOW killer.

I always said that SWTOR was going to be basically KOTOR Online, and I wasn't wrong.

I am saying the same things about TSW which has just being released and still has lots of support, but I predict that in a couple of months time, after people run out of stories,  it will follow SWTOR fate

So don't say that no one didn't see it coming, because to me it is obvious it will end up that way.

Understandable, and I don't disagree with you. If the game does turn out that way, you can bet your ass i'll flame it just as hard as anyone else.

Here is my problem(s):

1) We don't know how focused on story it is. Skyrim could be argued it focuses on story, or that it doesn't. My first toon I did the main quest line immediately. Now i've got a level 47 tank-archer that hasn't seen the grey-beards.

What is "Story focused"? Is it SW:TOR? Is it optional?

2) We haven't seen game play.

I know I may come off as a fanboi, defending the game from people(s) like you (no offense by the way). But it seems to me that the hate-wagon got a pull-start by a Corvette ZR1. Excerps from quotes, partial too. I can take one sentence from your statement and make you look like an ass as well. 

Again, i'm not trying to be a fan-boi, I don't even know if i'll buy the game. I don't even know if i'll enjoy it if I do buy it. But i'm waiting to hate or love untill I have a reasonable amount of evidence of one side or the other.

Originally posted by Wolvards

2) We haven't seen game play.

I know I may come off as a fanboi, defending the game from people(s) like you (no offense by the way). But it seems to me that the hate-wagon got a pull-start by a Corvette ZR1. Excerps from quotes, partial too. I can take one sentence from your statement and make you look like an ass as well. 

Again, i'm not trying to be a fan-boi, I don't even know if i'll buy the game. I don't even know if i'll enjoy it if I do buy it. But i'm waiting to hate or love untill I have a reasonable amount of evidence of one side or the other.

see this depends. I mean for example we know (and dont need to experience it) that the game is not FPS combat.

So although its true we dont know what the full experience is until we try it (which I plan on not doing) but we do have a general idea. Just as you have a general idea that if you go to a baseball game that its likely there will not be an endzone in the game.

My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is.

I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ? 

Forgeddit.

Originally posted by Valentina

Originally posted by Nethermancer

 

If Skyrim was made into an MMO it would fail, you can only wander around a game world aimlessly with no real sense of genuine involvement or personal importance or personalized narrative for so long before you get bored. The weakest point of the Elder Scrolls games is the story aspect. Sure, they tend to be really pretty games to run around and explore all the nooks and crannies for a couple of months but other then that I've found that most people couldn't care less about them after that point, because they've all become pretty bored with it.

Skyrim sold 10 million copies because it was so heavily hyped, it's a singleplayer game, and it was such an insanely long period of time since the last one. It's not all due to it being "amazing" or not. Personally, I enjoyed the game like most people I know did. A month and some of going through it and taking it in, and I've got absolutely 0 desire to play it again.

Er I think the idea would be to fill that amazing world in which you can interact with/do most things, with other players. You wouldn't be wandering around like a lemon.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

My Steam account tells me I've logged 680 hours in Skyrim. Tbh, I'm slightly embarrased to admit that in a public forum, but there it is.

 

I cannot even remotely imagine how an online TES game could reflect my gameplay experience in Skyrim. As a hunter, how would I ever be able to stalk deer with my bow when there will be dozens of players roaring around the game world on their chargers ? How could I ever have a serious conversation with the jarl in Whiterun while a player named Drag0nBjorn735 is bunnyhopping all over the banquet tables in the great hall ? 

 

Forgeddit.

well rolling on RP server if they will have naming enforcement (yes yes actually some mmorpg's have that kind of servers - codemasters in EU for Lotro had RP servers with name enforcement,   NA did not though they took over EU servers and it is still working althrought much worse)

Still I doubt this game will resemble Skyrim or earlier TES.  

Not only cause of other players, but cause they will be totally diffrent games.  With other players or not.

Originally posted by fenistil

... they are propably WAY too far in development to either cancel the project or totally redo it and push back release by 2 + years.   So they are backpeddaling fast, making some quick changes & fixes,  turning on marketting machine and hoping for the best.

 

This right here. 

They will get as much as they can from box sales of people who bought Skyrim. 

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Nethermancer

I will be shocked if this game is not a complete failure. It is NOTHING like skyrim. Skyrim sold 10 million because Skyrim is AWESOME....not because they used the elderscrolls universe.

And what made Skyrim so awesome is that you, me and everyone was the center of the game, everything was dynamic, there where no other idiots around to ruin the experience.

Now, put an mmo in it and see what happens

What you are doing is putting all the standard MMO's and add them to the skyrim experience.

What we the gamers and fans wants is for the Developer to find a way to make Skyrim an MMO experience.

Its what they are getting paid for, and if you read through the concept forums as well as the general discussion forums, many already proposed their ideas that could make it work.

Its not impossible, we just can't think of it, it doesn't mean that the developers whom have the experience and knowledge won't be able to figure something out.

Just because it hasn't been done, doesn't mean its impossible, it just mean someone hasn't thought of it yet.

So by saying that you can't make everyone the center and the hero in the TESO you are limiting yourself the ability to make something work.

Besides, many players of Skyrim actually never complete the main story line, they just like to explore and experience what the ES world brings them. Which is what Matt Firor have said will be limited by faction and most areas will not be available for exploration until future expansions.

Originally posted by nilden

/meh

OMG I love this image!

Originally posted by Istavaan

TESO is nothing more than a quick cash grab.

I agree.....Why should I buy another Elder Scrolls game so recent from the Skyrim launch...Skyrim will last for many years, hell I'm still playing Morrowind...and a montly sub???WTF  I'll just enjoy Guild Wars 2 and soon F2P Vanguard Saga of Heroes...TESO reminds me of Crystal Dynamics human game that failed...too much hype and they are hoping that the massive success that Skyrim brought can be taken over to their online game.  Here's their plan...

Go big budget charge a montly fee...

make enough money to make investors happy and

cover there costs...then go F2P it's all a big experiment

and I won't be falling for it..I love the Elder Scrolls series

probably my most favorite games of all time...but as loyal fan

to these games and a long time Elder Scrolls player this

just doesn't feel right...I'm one of those players they are hoping

will play their online game....well they are wrong.

Sometimes you have to just sit back and watch the disaster that is to come. I think all of us here are getting pretty good at being armchair devs and can already see how much fail this is gonna be.

Such narrow vision for a beloved franchise. if your going to make the online version of the single player RPG of this, you need to match that so i can steal your chairs and tables and drop them in the street. we have the tech it's 2012 they should make it happen.

Hell if they made it like daggerfall I would be so in that game. I still remember getting bit by a werewolf and when it was full moon wreaking havoc on town guards in god mode. was so much fun.