Originally posted by biggarfoot

The real question is "whats right with swtor?"

There's so much wrong with the game, it would take too long to list it all.

Originally posted by Tayah

Originally posted by biggarfoot

The real question is "whats right with swtor?"

There's so much wrong with the game, it would take too long to list it all.

I think the females have some hot asses for cartoon characters.

-Just trying to help.

As far as I know, WoW has still around 10 Million subscribers............it doesn't look like it is bothered by the F2P games.

Truth is Riccitiello hasn't got a clue, if SWTOR was good enough, people would pay a subscription.

Unfortunately he commissioned  a game which is an Online RPG rather than a real MMORPG, and now he complains that people are not willing to pay a subscription.

SWTOR is basically KOTOR online, why people should pay a monthly fee for an Online RPG?

The real problem with SWTOR is that they sunk all of their creative efforts into making the voice acting and storylines interesting. They did absolutely nothing creative with combat in terms of differentiating the encounters. As you level, the enviroments change, but the fights are almost all the same. If you have pulled one group, you have pretty much experienced all there is to combat in the game.

Even the instances are formulaic and boring. Basically, if you took away the "Star Wars" and the voice acting...you be left with almost nothing. The game doesn't stand up on its own merit at being a game.

Originally posted by Sindorin

Originally posted by Xobdnas

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/18/john-riccitello-discusses-the-impact-of-the-free-to-play-market/

This makes comlete sense. Its all the amazing new ftp games that killed swtor, not the fact that the game is a pile of hot garbage.

Reality check, if this game was ok, not even great or good, just ok it would have been fine. But it was shallow copy paste single player garbage that was made for wow players, showing complete disrespect for the fans that got it funded in the first place. Best of all tes is doing the exact same thing.

Judging by your quote, I am guessing you expected SWG v2.0? SWGEmu is thataway --->

 

SWTOR is great for those who knew what to expect. It's horrible for the folks who thought it was the next greatest Sandbox MMO, and people looking to roleplay a wookie jedi, artisan brawler Sith Emperor.

I didn't expect a sandbox game, but I didn't expect a single-player game with a monthly fee attached to it. Which is what we got. Did anyone expect that?

If hes worried about FTP just wait till GW2 releases.

Originally posted by MMOSavant

 

I didn't expect a sandbox game, but I didn't expect a single-player game with a monthly fee attached to it. Which is what we got. Did anyone expect that?

 Yeah. How could you not from everything they said about the game and if you played any of the beta at all? Not like they hid things from folks. They were pretty open about things really.

Originally posted by Wickedjelly

Originally posted by Creslin321

 Yep I agree.  I was interested in SWTOR because it was maybe the most expensive game ever developed and was developed by one of the most renown developers in the business.  And yet it turned out to be pretty derivative.

 The whole hater thing is debatable as well. I mean some around here accuse anyone that says anything negative about a game as they're simply being a hater. Hell...for this game alone I've been called a hater by some and a biodrone by others pending on the subject.

Amongst many other colorful insults thrown at me on the boards and in my inbox.

XD

Completely agree.  I have been labeled as both a hater and fanboy for GW2 as well because of my negative views on the CS, but positive views on just about everything else.

It seems like many people here just can't grasp that you can and should have mixed and varied perceptions on a game.  Just because I like one aspect of a game, does not mean I'm a blind fanboy and vice versa.

I have pretty negative views on a lot of SWTOR, but I do admit that the SP portion of the game isn't half bad (though not excellent either). 

Anyway, I think people have to stop seeing games as black or white.  So many people treat a video game like it's a sports team and think they have to stay with it through thick and thin...this really isn't the way you should be.  It does nothing but aggravate people who are trying to have a reasonable discussion about the game, and possibly even lead the developers down the wrong path as you blindly support or hate everything they do.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

snip

 

And yet to this day people still criticize SW:TOR more for what it isn't than what it is.

SW:TOR has problems, but you rarely hear people talking about them.  I'd be willing to bet that the majority of the whiners didn't even play long enough to comment on issues within the game itself.  Rather all you hear is the game doesn't have this or the game should have had that.  Nevertheless, SW:TOR is exactly what the developers promised it would be.  

It's not perfect, and it needs work if it wants to survive for the long haul, but the base game is as it should be.

Crap is crap no matter how you market or sugarcoat it....it's still crap

I'm glad people are still enjoying this crap ^^

I just heard the Euro is having trouble again, somewhere SWTOR is being affected.

SWTOR is a fundamently flawed game. 

I played through the story of the Assassin. This story was bland, shallow as hell and fragemented. IT was terrible.

Atmospher Terrible

dungeons Terrible

crafting Terrible

PVP actually kind of fun but shallow and boring after a couple weeks

This is by far the worst thing Bioware has ever done.....o wait Dragon Age II

Originally posted by Nethermancer

SWTOR is a fundamently flawed game. 

I played through the story of the Assassin. This story was bland, shallow as hell and fragemented. IT was terrible.

Atmospher Terrible

dungeons Terrible

crafting Terrible

PVP actually kind of fun but shallow and boring after a couple weeks

This is by far the worst thing Bioware has ever done.....o wait Dragon Age II

 

 I thought some of the dungeons were pretty cool. Some seemed to be well done and had a lot of effort put into them.

Others were extremely generic and felt rushed like they were added in game to simply increase the numbers.

Originally posted by cylon8
Soes clone wars ftp mmo has more to offer than tor. Player housing; good character customization,fun mini games even open world combat. Tor is lifeless and segregates players due to outdated server tech.it shows very clearly bioware had no idea how to make an mmo or code the hero engine. The drs insistance that EA remains hands off was their undoing and proved the only used the sw ip as a barganing tool. If ea had seen the game sooner it probably would have insisted they drop the mmo direction and go for kotor 3. Bioware got in way over their heads

Albeit a little too late the server tech is actually there now.

I still play,  I don't think TOR is great, it is the best of a bad bunch though which is sadly the state of the MMO industry.

Anywhoo back OT,  A lot of life has been injected since the change to super servers as they called them,  now I'm sure a hater will be here in a moment to state that it was simply a server merge and numbers are the same well sorry but I play and I can categorically say that on my server alone numbers have increased at least 5 fold over what they where prior to the merges and I was on the last EU server that had a launch concurrent user HIGH.   You where looking around 1300-1500 concurrent prior to the server changes/consolidation and now off a pretty basic search 1-2 hrs before peak time you have around 3k online.

It has injected some life into it but the group finder and cross server in the 1-49 range have to be on BW's radar next as there is still considerable wait time in this level range.  I am a pretty casual player who plays 1-2 hrs about 3 nights a week these days and at present it can take up to an hour to get that group going.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/18/john-riccitello-discusses-the-impact-of-the-free-to-play-market/

This makes comlete sense. Its all the amazing new ftp games that killed swtor, not the fact that the game is a pile of hot garbage.

Reality check, if this game was ok, not even great or good, just ok it would have been fine. But it was shallow copy paste single player garbage that was made for wow players, showing complete disrespect for the fans that got it funded in the first place. Best of all tes is doing the exact same thing.

incompetent lead staff, wrong deciders and the worst lead designer since Horizons or Asherons Call 2

thats the main reason for the disaster....

You finish first if you put what is fine with SWTOR:

1. Has Star Wars in the name.

2. Lightsabers glow in the dark.

3. Many voices are ok.

4. The first time you do some quests are even fun. (I cant remenber any atm, but back in january I enjoyed one or 2 )

Originally posted by Portland

Originally posted by Xobdnas

http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/07/18/john-riccitello-discusses-the-impact-of-the-free-to-play-market/

This makes comlete sense. Its all the amazing new ftp games that killed swtor, not the fact that the game is a pile of hot garbage.

Reality check, if this game was ok, not even great or good, just ok it would have been fine. But it was shallow copy paste single player garbage that was made for wow players, showing complete disrespect for the fans that got it funded in the first place. Best of all tes is doing the exact same thing.

incompetent lead staff, wrong deciders and the worst lead designer since Horizons or Asherons Call 2

thats the main reason for the disaster....

This is oh so true.  But you forgot to mention egotistical :)

Stated simply..The way gamers look at, and play games, have changed. And the people making AAA MMO's have not. The dev's think throwing more money or a new gimmick will work. But it is not the games that are different..it is the players.

If SWTOR had been released 10 years ago, it would be hailed as one of the greats. 

Some Dev's are still stuck in the mind set of get lots of subs and keep them for years. And the people that are looking for a game to keep for years are a small minority of the total people that buy LOTS of games and play for a while, then move to the next one.

Even the "old timers" that played for years in UO ,WOW and EQ and so on..have changed:P But they mostly do not even realize it themselves:)

Just look at some of the sig's of the forum posters in forums.. see how many games they USED to play or are retired from:) Some of them are the harshest critics of each MMO that comes along.. but they mostly buy them play for a month or 3 and then start looking for the next:)

It is time for everyone to look at the overall pattern here.. and realize that the so called FTP is the first step into the future away from the old sub models.

Some of the sharper dev's, have realized that gamers HAVE changed. And that they will not stay in games like in the old days. And that they need to change the way they attract, and get paid by, those gamers that come, play for a while, and then move on.  Thats where the majority of the gaming market is at and going to stay i think.

One poster asked, "What did they get right on SWTOR?"

You need to ask what the developers ask, "What is not WOW in SWTOR?"

All of you realize that a founding group of devs here from Lucas Arts thought the NGE was going to work?  It has always been a matter of method over function.  SWG suffered in spades with this even though it was a sandbox game.  TOR was a second chance for the IP to strike lightning without the "drag" of sandbox boredem.  If you played SWG, you know that it was alway a matter of getting the game fixed.  Many players loved the depth of the world but it was still a niech market.  WOW is still the winning formula they are chasing even after WOW is not WOW anymore.

Get a clue LA.

PVP as a whole is what's wrong with SWTOR, one of the worst pvp systems out there that I know of, I hate how it's tier-gear based and divides people up. Recruit gear gives you 13K health which you die easily in 3 globals to most classes (most classes can pull 3-5K per hit) and 900 expertise vs 1250-1300 expertise is a wide gap and so is 13K health vs 18-23K health.

In most MMO games, you're put on an even playing field regardless of what gear you're using, but not in SWTOR (nor WoW and a few other select games), it's yet another ladder to climb and it's entirely part of why SWTOR is bleeding subs like crazy.

Also the class balance is extraodinary, some classes has too good advantages while other classes has almost no advantage and too many negatives (like dps assassin/shadow vs a dps powertech/vanguard for example), at least half of Bioware's devs has been departed and hopefully things will change for the better from then on but I'm obviously not going to hold my breath.