Trending Games | Guild Wars 2 | Elder Scrolls Online | WildStar | Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn
Network: Gamertube FPSguru RTSguru
| 195 posts found | |
|---|---|
|
7/18/12 4:34:14 PM#141
Originally posted by Caldrin From the very beginning, EQ outshined and continues to outshine UO in subscriber numbers as do most themepark MMOs. Yes, both UO and Eve and to some extent early SWG were successful in their own right, but not nearly so in comparison to their competition (themeparks). The market didn't just pick themparks on a whim, they have proven to be the better money makers so far.  |
|
|
7/18/12 4:43:40 PM#142
Originally posted by Kenze This is the common misconception of what a sandbox is and is the fault of indy games developers who also didn't have much of a clue. A sandbox is a perpetual world where you as players are given the tools and told to get on with it, it is not a PvP killfest for the immature, short epeen crowd who get their kicks solely by causing grief to everyone they come across.
In a sandbox your virtual character is given a place to live and to explore, you are not taken by the hand and led through a series of scripted areas until you reach max level when you are presented with a sub-standard endgame. In a sandbox you are expected to contribute to and build the world and experience around you, it is not a giant BG. |
|
|
7/18/12 4:47:53 PM#143
Originally posted by Vorthanion Actually SWG had around 100-150k stable subs. It was revamped and ruined by overpaid suits that have no idea what an MMO is aside from the balance sheet and who got greedy after seeing the numbers that WoW pulled in. |
|
|
Foomerang
Advanced Member
Joined: 11/10/05
A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still |
7/18/12 4:59:07 PM#144
I used to think that sandbox was what I really wanted. But after playing some minecraft and entropia universe, I can tell you I'm not a huge fan of 100% open ended player made content. Theres a middle ground. Something that SWG did back before the changes. Even after the changes, it was still ok. I want a virtual world with a strong theme that ties that world together. I enjoy playing an mmo that lets you do whatever you want within the setting of the game. More than combat classes and more than a house (instanced or not). Im talking about multiple ways to approach the game world, whether it be as a combatant or farmer, traveler, scientist, ranger, business person, the more the better. I actually do like the themeparks coming out these days. They just dont have the variety to keep me playing for long. I can go through these games as a combatant. Thats the bulk of the game design. I can roleplay and craft items (usually items that aid in combat), but it doesnt take long to realize that although technically you can play the game that way, you're ignoring about 90% of the content and thats just not worth the time or the money. Its like buying an MMO just to play with the character creator and never log on. Themepark is not a sub genre, its an excuse. |
|
7/19/12 4:29:42 AM#145
Originally posted by Vorthanion What a flawed argument. UO has maintained a profitable subscription based model to this day.
EQ is currently free to play.
In their Prime EQ was more popular for sure, but that is hardly a fair comparision as almost double the number of people in the world had computers when EQ was released compared to UO. UO was the effective founder of the MMO market and eq built on that. They were both good games in their own way, but saying that because EQ was more popular than UO is very different than saying "mmo players dont like sandboxes" which is what the OP is saying. 1 could also make the claim that looking at the most anticipated games, 3 of the top 4 are sandboxes(1 is a fps, so neither themepark or sandbox.). So clearly there is a large niche group of gamers that does not like the current crop of themeparks that flood the market.
|
|
|
7/19/12 5:07:43 AM#146
Players want games where they log in - get their action hit - log off. This tends to be the Themepark model of success.
The sandbox probably works for fewer people, less often, but when it does work it works better for those people? |
|
|
7/19/12 7:46:29 AM#147
Honestly, it's just a matter of people roleplaying two personas - their posturing life on the MMORPG.com forums, and the one in-game.
On MMORPG.com, they are totally badass. They say any game is too easy and they want MOAR HARDKORE! MOAR FULL LOOT PVP ALL THE TIME!!11.
When they get into the game, they find out that they aren't the top of the food chain. They start to become Hulks in EVE, or try to be a crafter in Darkfall. Needless to say, they are the sheep that the wolves prey on all the time. Only few people have a recognizable name in one of these two games, and MMORPG.com doesn't have any of them.
So eventually, they reach out and say the game's buggy. Insult the developers. Or, in the case of MMORPG.com, insult themepark games at every turn so they can distract other people from the fact that they are carebear themselves. This is why we have so many 'Themepark is bad; sandbox is good' threads. These sandbox gamers need self-esteem as if it's a currency necessary to continue playing their game, since they will never be wolves - just addicted sheep.
As an aside, if you start talking about 'skill caps' in games, you're an idiot. No one here will ever reach a skill cap for any game ever. I was #1 in a few mATs in GW1, and even then, I'm far from any skill cap. HoN might have a higher skill cap than LoL, but it doesn't matter because none of you are good enough to get near it anyway, so it doesn't matter what game you play. You're just bad.
And yes, that includes themepark games. None of you are in Paragon, so you really can't talk about reaching skill caps. |
|
|
xaritscin
Advanced Member
Joined: 9/25/11
"Antherea Online will see the light, eventually" |
7/19/12 11:15:18 AM#148
Originally posted by Khaeros i dont think so, in fact, the only PvP i have tasted has been in WoW, Lineage II, Aion and EVE. i have tasted FFA PvP, BGs and Factional Warfare, but i dont whine in this forum about how hard it is, war isnt supposed to be fair. i wouldnt mind a sandbox with FFA PvP as long as i didnt have to loose my loot, like in EVE. or unless you would be able to recover quickly, as in EVE. to be honest, when i tasted EVE i wanted to go quickly to mining, i wasnt really interested in PvP, my only motive was to have a Rorcual, but i got a hurricane anyways and started to train in killing rats, and even went to kill some enemies with my corp in a matari frigate. you cannot classify all the members of this forum to be bad gamers and good whiners. the only problem i get with a total Sandbox is that players put many effort in it, but are afraid of loosing everything if they aren't awake. its has been proven in Minecraft servers, some players like to troll othe users creations. in MMOs we have the problem of griefing and ganking. but its a necessary evil, i mean. difficulty make us fight for the things, i used to get pissed when i got can flipped, but i just realized that i couldnt do more, every game has its group of a**holes and the only thing you can do is fight them or just dont get in their way. also, the danger helps to create communities, i mean, with a good structured and balanced PvP, lowbies could organize and fight the gankers, this forming little militias. as they advance they could form bigger companies and later found a whole organization/nation or whatever, and the only enemies they would have would be other coalitions or factions in the same place as them. FFA PvP with full loot is viable, but only if there's community. solo players wont survive in a place like that, unless they learn quickly how do the things work in the game, but if they like to be hand guided then they're doomed. |
|
7/19/12 11:46:51 AM#149
You're right, I don't want a sandbox game. I never asked for a sandbox game. I asked for a game with depth, choices/multiple viable play styles, and socializing. That was the bare minimum for MMOs in the 90s. Now its a pipe dream. The games I loved in the past like DAoC weren't sandboxes. They may be called that now because of how simple online games like WoW and SWTOR are. But they weren't sandboxes they were just well made games.
I don't want a sandbox. I want an MMORPG. A real one. |
|
|
7/19/12 11:48:15 AM#150
I think the biggest problems with sandboxes are:
A) It leaves way too much room for asshats to ruin the experience for everyone. B) People don't want a second job. C) Sandbox is an excuse for no content/development. |
|
|
7/19/12 11:51:29 AM#151
Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar ^ not here for any of that tbh. I understand some people have a very deep, avid love and appreciation for sandbox games and maybe themepark game developers could learn to incorporate some of the best features of a sandbox game into their themepark games, and that sort of hybrid would be popular. But themeparks are what sell, and just because developers have not been smart in preparing longterm viability for said themepark games lately doesn't change that they are what people actually purchase. |
|
|
7/19/12 11:54:44 AM#152
Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar I'd consider boring linear content like the "quests" in WoW clones to be a second job. Not the dynamic social experiences found in sandboxes. How can it be a job if its dynamic? And A and C are both BS. Asshats ruin any game, not just sandboxes. And I can't think of a single sandbox game that hasn't had content. |
|
|
7/19/12 11:57:01 AM#153
Originally posted by Valentina Er, no, they aren't. The healthiest MMO on the market right now is Eve. SWG, a sandbox, when it came out, was the second most popular MMO. DayZ, a sandbox game thats more MMO than almost any AAA title from the last 7 years is pushing a million users soon. Meanwhile, SWTOR is crashing and burning taking EA with it. LotRO and DDO are limping along in FTP obscurity, AoC was dead on arrival, Aion vanished, Rift merged servers almost right away... Yeah. No. |
|
|
7/19/12 12:07:57 PM#154
Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar You might as well have posted that the sun is made of trillions of oranges and peanut butter is actually alien poop because nothing you posted has any truth to it. Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure. |
|
|
7/19/12 12:43:05 PM#155
Originally posted by NaughtyP Have fun being delusional then. |
|
|
7/19/12 12:59:12 PM#156
The issue is existing sandboxes are mostly bad games. The few which aren't bad games tend to be singleplayer (Terrarria, and to a lesser degree Minecraft,) or really low quality in other ways (Haven & Hearth) Players want a game about manipulating the world, but they want a game. That means interesting decisions, which oftentimes sandbox games let fall by the wayside in the pursuit of less important goals like world simulation or world PVP. |
|
|
VengeSunsoar
 Elite Member
Joined: 3/10/04
GRIND DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS ENTIRELY YOUR PERCEPTION. |
7/19/12 12:59:45 PM#157
Originally posted by Garvon3 No. The highest are Wow, followed by Aion, than L2. Eve does have a strong and large playerbase but it is not the healthiest. Now the arguement is that those other games don't have more in the west, welll wow does, and Eve is played on the global market as well. http://community.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=782711 Swg was popular however it was also bleeding subs for months before WoW came out. Dayz has a lot of people downloadingit, I have no idea how many are currently using it. More MMO is largely opinion. And it is very limited on the number of people that are on a single instance/shard/server whatever you want to call it. Lotro has a very healthy population. It had a very healthy and stable population in the 150-200k range before going f2p. It did not go f2p because of an unhealthy or low population or because it wasn't making money. It went f2p because the owners felt they could make even more money with f2p. Rift is doing very well. Healthy population and making enough profit to fund a 2nd game development. I'll give you DDO and AoC. Although by all accounts DDO is not limping along at all. And to the earlier person saying EQ does not have the population of UO and the evidence of this is it went F2p. No. It had a very stable population, low yes, but higher than UO IMO. Just like EQ2 and Lotro, it went f2p, not because it had to but because the owners felt they could generate more money. edit - in NA alone Eve probably has just between 100 and 150k You know, in ancient Egypt. One of the hieroglyphics on the walls of the pyramids actually says 'I am upset as my heir will ruin my kingdom' or something to that affect. This is 5000BC stuff and you know what? Nothing has changed. :P |
|
7/19/12 3:18:06 PM#158
Originally posted by ThaneUlfgar Your problems with "sandbox games" are UNIVERSAL problems every MMO encounters and has to deal with. That is why your post is comparable to alien feces. Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure. |
|
|
VengeSunsoar
Elite Member
Joined: 3/10/04
GRIND DOES NOT EXIST. IT IS ENTIRELY YOUR PERCEPTION. |
7/19/12 3:47:02 PM#159
Originally posted by NaughtyP I agree with Thane. These are problems that have plagued Sandboxes and have IMO kept them from being more popular. FFAPVP has plagued sandboxes. No sandbox doesn't mean ffapvp but many/most of the ones in the last decade have had that. Most of the activities in a sandbox take a very very very long time before they start becoming usefull/meaning full, very long crafting projects, very long skill advancement... Sandbox typically has less content than other MMO's, again it shouldn't but typicall does. These are real and valid concerns. While some other games share them, Sandbox has been plagued with them. You know, in ancient Egypt. One of the hieroglyphics on the walls of the pyramids actually says 'I am upset as my heir will ruin my kingdom' or something to that affect. This is 5000BC stuff and you know what? Nothing has changed. :P |
|
7/19/12 3:59:56 PM#160
Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Well in fairness the reasons for FFA pvp being added to many sandbox mmos is pretty obvious. If it is done correctly then it adds a massive amount to the game. The trouble is it is not always done well or on the flip side it is made into the raison d'etre of the game and that is not made clear enough from the outset.
It certainly hasn't plagued sandboxes, skill grinds, bugs and shitestick dev teams have done that. |
|
.jpg){kind=avatar}
Friends: vgchartz.com
Not a member? You can still subscribe to our newsletters and daily updates here!
May 22, 2013 1:51 PM
- Page Created in 0.811 seconds -
