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News & Features Discussion  » Guild Wars 2: The Legendary Endgame

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  User Deleted
7/18/12 3:51:43 PM#81

Not so sure about all of this.

 

Longer term an mmo can either have item/character grinds, an amazing player driven meta game, or amazing pvp combat of one form or another.

 

GW2 certainly doesn't appear to by trying to focus on the meta game, this isn't some crafting/OW pvp sandbox. That's more than fair enough but it means this endgame avenue in closed.

 

In terms of item/character grind they appear to be trying to do away with this as well, but are they? Surely they are just replacing a stat grind with an appearance grind hook? Hanging in the game in order to get a slightly better looking sword doesn't seem to me to be all that different from trying to get a sword with marginally better stats. At the end of the day if you have got fuck all to do, the sword (cool looking or not) is pointless.

 

So it appears to me that the focus is on the pvp and the dynamic event pve. With regards to the pvp, I just hope the combat system is amazing because if it is setting itself up as an e-sport, it is going to have to compete with e-sport games. Can it do that? In terms of WvW pvp, will it hold up against the likes of PS2? It may be the case it does both well, but both kinds of pvp are hardly game changing forms of "endgame".

 

As for the dynamic events and there hold at end game I have to admit I have zero idea about that really, perhaps they will.

 

I want the game to do well and I'm sure it will, but there are some doubts for me. Perhaps the fact it will have zero subscription may just help the old "endgame" as it will allow players more flexibilty.

 

 

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3732

7/18/12 4:03:07 PM#82
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

In terms of item/character grind they appear to be trying to do away with this as well, but are they? Surely they are just replacing a stat grind with an appearance grind hook? Hanging in the game in order to get a slightly better looking sword doesn't seem to me to be all that different from trying to get a sword with marginally better stats. At the end of the day if you have got fuck all to do, the sword (cool looking or not) is pointless.

 GW2 will have some truly insane grinds in it, I'm sure.  Just look at GW1 for the example of backbreaking grinds that could break the spirit of lesser mortals.

The difference that people are enjoying is that these are purely optional grinds, where those who don't participate aren't punished.  As opposed to tier-gear grinds where content is literally gated off from you because you're not giving them enough money through subscriptions/playing in an addictive fashion.

  xm522

Apprentice Member

Joined: 3/23/09
Posts: 116

7/18/12 5:01:20 PM#83

i feel that most people talking about GW2's grind dont understand that the grind is optional. where even if you dont grind you will still be competitive and wont get facerolled by a grinder. this is unlike those other games where the grind provides an inmense gap in stats (power) between those two respective groups. i myself like the idea of 'looking good' over 'being unfairly powerful'

  toddze

Novice Member

Joined: 8/02/08
Posts: 2203

I am not a hater, I call it like I see it.

7/18/12 5:17:08 PM#84
Originally posted by ZeGerman
Originally posted by toddze

Big majority of people will be bored of this game 60-90 days after launch. Its a good game, but it just doesnt have "it". The good thing is you can come back every now and then and play a little here and there.

What is this It people keep talking about.  Honesly why are people so locked into old ways.  I am concerned that GW2 will die off within a year or so In favor of grind based games.  It makes me sad because it really says something about the intelligence level of this generation of gamers.  Anyone who is intelligent must be getting bored after 10 years of grind. Ofcourse there are people who just don't like GW2 but if the reason they don't like it is because they want a grind then I have trouble believing in their intelligence, that or they have deadened their senses to enjoy simplistic lives.

This generation? I am of the old school MMO generation. Was it a grind? Yes. Was it a timesink? Yes. You know what I love me a good grind and good timesink. MMO's to me are (or I should say were) a hobby. I loved putting effort into leveling my character taking me anywhere from 4-6 months to level my first class to cap. If I wanted casual fun Id throw in a good ole single player rpg.

Hell I saw a commercial on espn the other day that absolutly sums my thought of the mmo genre up pretty well. It was about a nascaar drive. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLZOhz4qp68

Basically the commercial says if loosing doesnt hurt, winning doesnt feel near as good. Thats what going on in the mmo genre. Everything is so easy, everything is handed out, death/wipes have very minimal consequences. So when I acheive something in an mmo today it doesnt feel like I have acheived anything, it also why theres no ;asting appeal to these games. 

So back to your quote yes the intelligence of this generation of mmo gamers is at an all time low. They just want easy mode instant grat. with no effort. Just want hand outs. 

Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI

  User Deleted
7/18/12 5:20:02 PM#85

Ive seen enough videos to have played GW2 for three years. And lemme tell ya, the endgame was great!

  Zetsuei

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/21/03
Posts: 250

The one and only power

7/18/12 5:25:01 PM#86
Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

So:

- Medium scale pvp: Nothing new, every mmorpg coming nowadays seems to have it.

- Gear grind: Not new either, expect it's cosmetic. But hell,e ven high tier gear as some cosmetic properties

- Orr: Instead of a 10 man dungeon, it's just more quests than before that you get to rinse and repeat forever.

 

Seriously, i'm not hating on the game, but never understood endgame. To me, no matter how you spin it, dev driven , rinse and repeat content is always the same. That's why i don't care for it. player driven activities is what i consider "true endgame". The closest is WVW, and, well, any kind of pvp activity in today's themeparks, but, since i find VVW not very large and big, and far too meaningless, i don't see myself playing it long.

 

Again, not trolling. As i've said many times, i plan on buying GW2 because i think it's a good game and the journey will be great, but the end is just like every other mmorpg. Which is fine, because i don't plan on staying. Still worth it.

Really? Were gonna complain about cosmetic stuff now? Are you grasping at straws this much trying to find flaws in the game?

I honestly can't wait for this endgame. I think it is gonna be something amazing. If you played the original GW you know how much fun the game was even before you hit max level. It just had so much to do and it was always different and fun. I can only imagine how much more stuff we'll have to do in GW2. I hope they have a wide variety of Legendary's though.

I do also think the "endgame" is gonna hurt GW2. Not cause its gonna be bad in GW2, but so many people are used to WoWs style of endgame and the never ending rat race of always getting new gear with each patch. GW2 is so different most people won't play it correctly and they will play it like a normal MMO. Soon we will see those people complaining this weekend that the game is bad or not for them. So many people realize this is not a normal MMO and can't be played like one.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3732

7/18/12 5:28:59 PM#87
Originally posted by Foomerang

Ive seen enough videos to have played GW2 for three years. And lemme tell ya, the endgame was great!

 Speaking of end game, I hope you're playing PSO2!  A game where I don't actually mind grinding away for more random crap. :D

  User Deleted
7/18/12 5:32:57 PM#88


Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by Foomerang Ive seen enough videos to have played GW2 for three years. And lemme tell ya, the endgame was great!
 Speaking of end game, I hope you're playing PSO2!  A game where I don't actually mind grinding away for more random crap. :D


I wish I was playing PSO2 :) I gotta wait til 2013 though cause I dont know how to hook up the Japanese version.

  GamerUntouch

Novice Member

Joined: 5/11/12
Posts: 491

7/18/12 5:36:28 PM#89

My question is, why do you need stat increases?

I mean, the content stays the same, all that changes is the amount you do, which is null because the enemies, to reflect that, have more health.

 

The content is the same, all you're getting it prettier looking weapons, which is what GW2 does.

 

Ask most players, would they rather do the easiest of the hardest, gear drops accordingly.

All it does is segregate the content.

  gessekai332

Hard Core Member

Joined: 3/31/07
Posts: 885

7/18/12 7:04:55 PM#90
Originally posted by Talmien
It seems to me that GW2 is putting all its hope into its combat system. All of the events and RvR are there to encourage you to get into battle. You don't really build your character, or collect gear to make yourself stronger. So fighting is the endgame.

My only concer is that so far the combat system to me seems only to be of par level. Its nothing legendary. I've found myself already getting a little bored in beta fighting
unintelligent mobs with a limited skillset, and I don't think I'm alone in this regard.

If you play more, you will get stronger because you will become a better player. Not only will you look cooler but you will be more skillful and know all the potential great builds out there, how/when to use them, and how to counter them in the battlefield. Throughout GW1, team builds and personal builds for pvp/pve were ever-changing from when it started in 2005 until now. Whenever i got back into the game after not playing for a while, pve and pvp was always a new experience.

Most memorable games: AoC(Tryanny PvP), RIFT, GW, GW2, Ragnarok Online, Aion, FFXI, FFXIV, Secret World, League of Legends (Silver II rank)

  xpiher

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/22/08
Posts: 3316

7/18/12 9:21:19 PM#91
Gw is designed to play and beat by the majority of players to save on server cost. Like gw1, gw2 will likely have expansions every 6mo or so.


But I love not needing to gear grind to get access to new content. It's the dumbest model ever used to keep people playing. "why do you raid,? To get gear. Why do you want gear? To raid' its retarded.

What gw2 gives players to do in end game is to personalize their characters and chase after shines without artifical limits. Rvr gives people the ability to help their server get access to exclusive buffs for pve giving it a sense of purpose, while bgs offer e-sports. Al without a sub.

I don't see why someone wouldn't like it enough to get their 50$ worth.


Games:
Currently playing:Nothing
Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
Past games:
Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
Xpiher's GW2
GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
Warhammer - Xpiher

  Adalwulff

Apprentice Member

Joined: 1/18/10
Posts: 1191

"I am not the light, or the darkness, but the twilight in between"

7/18/12 10:00:23 PM#92
Originally posted by Talmien
It seems to me that GW2 is putting all its hope into its combat system. All of the events and RvR are there to encourage you to get into battle. You don't really build your character, or collect gear to make yourself stronger. So fighting is the endgame.

My only concer is that so far the combat system to me seems only to be of par level. Its nothing legendary. I've found myself already getting a little bored in beta fighting
unintelligent mobs with a limited skillset, and I don't think I'm alone in this regard.

 

Huh?? You complain that GW2 is about fighting at endgame, then say your bored of unintelligent mobs?

The endgame is about fighting PLAYERS! You just combined 2 completly different parts of the game into one complaint.... wow!!!!!!!!!

 

And btw, you guys are alone is this regard, something like 3 milliion to 1  HAHA!!!

  Pratt2112

Elite Member

Joined: 2/12/12
Posts: 1310

7/18/12 10:26:44 PM#93

So wait a minute, MikeB.

Am I misunderstanding you, or are you basically saying that GW2 will be about experiencing the game, and not "finishing it" by getting to the end as fast as possible? 

You mean ANet is, in their own way, taking the concept of playing a MMO back to a more "old-school" concept of making the main reasons to log in revolve around adventuring, exploring and existing in the world they've created, rather than racing past it all at breakneck speeds on a never-ending pursuit of some phantom finish line?

If that's so, and I'm not just misunderstanding what you've explained, then that would be a bigger selling point for me than most anything else. It's been a long while - too long - since a MMO developer has said "Come experience this massive world we've created for you". For far too long it's been, "Here, come play this game we've largely cloned for you". 

  Krosslite

Novice Member

Joined: 1/01/06
Posts: 320

Warriors are those who choose to stand between their enemy and all that he loves or hold sacred

7/18/12 10:51:14 PM#94

I have to make this clear at the out set of my reply. I have been in MMOs since the mid-90s. I am also over 50. I consider myself to be a true vetran of the MMOs industry as a player.

These powerleveler that love to cap in two days and then want to go around griefing other players I do not consider to be vetrans. I consider them to be console gamers.

They are the folks that grew up with playstation and Nintendo. And to me they play MMOs just like they play these game. MMOs never have been a console game and these people keep trying to make MMOs into console game. 

I have been in the start of a ton of MMOs in the start and I ALWAYS hear these console players whining that they have nothing to do. Well to me that is their own fault.

An MMO is meant to be epereinced over a very long period of time. I usually take months to get a character to the max level. Because that is how an MMO is meant to played. In months not in days.

In MMOs they had a plan to release a game. Get the money influx to pay for new employees and then hire them to make endgame content, but due to console players these plans never pan out.

Now we have GW2. I game that the devs said was not going to come out til it was ready. That the endgame is the game. And all I have to say. ITS ABOUT TIME. Finally someone got it and has basicly told these console gamers (which are the minority) to go take a flying leap.

ArenaNet you guys got it. And I am REALLY looking forward to playing this game

 

A MMO is like life. It is something to cherish and enjoy upon in it journey. So why race to the end of it. In life at the end you die.

  Thupli

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/25/11
Posts: 446

7/18/12 11:01:02 PM#95

Funny:

 

I heard that in wow every few months a new patch drops and your gear is de-valued and you have to do it all over again.

 

I heard that in GW2, after you get the best gear... you must grind for a second set of cosmetic gear....

 

...WAIT... that isnt' right!  Who are those folks that keep saying it's just a different grind for cosmetic gear?  That is ridiculous.... once you have one set you are on an even playing field in the Mists and never have to grind again due to gear de-valuation.

 

 

  cronius77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1313

7/18/12 11:08:15 PM#96
Originally posted by Thupli

Funny:

 

I heard that in wow every few months a new patch drops and your gear is de-valued and you have to do it all over again.

 

I heard that in GW2, after you get the best gear... you must grind for a second set of cosmetic gear....

 

...WAIT... that isnt' right!  Who are those folks that keep saying it's just a different grind for cosmetic gear?  That is ridiculous.... once you have one set you are on an even playing field in the Mists and never have to grind again due to gear de-valuation.

 

 

you hit the nail right on with items in these carrot on a stick games like wow and rift. Their answer to end game is add in some boring new raid and have to grind out another raid to get the new purple items that bring your item level up. Blizzard is successful for that because its just like an Esport to tons of people as they have to brag about what they killed and how awesome their guild is at raid pve. Guild Wars 2 has esport pvp and casual large scale pvp that will drive the end game just fine for a lot of people. People that want to raid in pve im sure will get a chance later on down the road as people will whine and they will add some sort of raiding into the game. DAOC had raiding but you didnt see anyone doing it but random pugs about once a week . The end game in DAOC everyone enjoyed was the RVR which is what GW2 seems to be trying to produce and sell.  Sorry but i know i dont want to every patch have to go out and do some chore of a raid with people stroking their Epeen just to be competitive , that mess dies with wow.

  Nadia

Tipster

Joined: 7/26/03
Posts: 11795

7/18/12 11:25:13 PM#97
Originally posted by bunnyhopper

 With regards to the pvp, I just hope the combat system is amazing because if it is setting itself up as an e-sport, it is going to have to compete with e-sport games. Can it do that? In terms of WvW pvp, will it hold up against the likes of PS2? It may be the case it does both well, but both kinds of pvp are hardly game changing forms of "endgame".

ANET wants GW2 to be an esport game for PVP

http://www.guildfans.com/story.html?story=29213

Do you have any major plans to support eSports gaming in Guild Wars 2 that you can share?

Jon: Absolutely. We consider it to be one of the primary goals of Guild Wars 2 competitive PvP to make it into an eSport. We plan to have daily tournaments, monthly tourneys and a yearly world championship. I can't give out tons of details on these yet, but I just wanted you guys to know that we plan to have these things and support them.

 

but I have no interest in that, im playing GW2 for the PVE

  helthros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1477

7/18/12 11:27:50 PM#98
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Thupli

Funny:

 

I heard that in wow every few months a new patch drops and your gear is de-valued and you have to do it all over again.

 

I heard that in GW2, after you get the best gear... you must grind for a second set of cosmetic gear....

 

...WAIT... that isnt' right!  Who are those folks that keep saying it's just a different grind for cosmetic gear?  That is ridiculous.... once you have one set you are on an even playing field in the Mists and never have to grind again due to gear de-valuation.

 

 

you hit the nail right on with items in these carrot on a stick games like wow and rift. Their answer to end game is add in some boring new raid and have to grind out another raid to get the new purple items that bring your item level up. Blizzard is successful for that because its just like an Esport to tons of people as they have to brag about what they killed and how awesome their guild is at raid pve. Guild Wars 2 has esport pvp and casual large scale pvp that will drive the end game just fine for a lot of people. People that want to raid in pve im sure will get a chance later on down the road as people will whine and they will add some sort of raiding into the game. DAOC had raiding but you didnt see anyone doing it but random pugs about once a week . The end game in DAOC everyone enjoyed was the RVR which is what GW2 seems to be trying to produce and sell.  Sorry but i know i dont want to every patch have to go out and do some chore of a raid with people stroking their Epeen just to be competitive , that mess dies with wow.

So everyone striving to look badass isn't epeen stroking? Talk about calling the kettle black.. lol. Some people in WoW just like doing the group content with their buddies. That drives the game more than the elitist 5%. I'm sure there will be no bragging and no epeen stroking in GW2, that's checked at the front door, right?

Some people are just silly with their comparison of GW2 to other games.

  cronius77

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/26/12
Posts: 1313

7/18/12 11:33:55 PM#99
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Thupli

Funny:

 

I heard that in wow every few months a new patch drops and your gear is de-valued and you have to do it all over again.

 

I heard that in GW2, after you get the best gear... you must grind for a second set of cosmetic gear....

 

...WAIT... that isnt' right!  Who are those folks that keep saying it's just a different grind for cosmetic gear?  That is ridiculous.... once you have one set you are on an even playing field in the Mists and never have to grind again due to gear de-valuation.

 

 

you hit the nail right on with items in these carrot on a stick games like wow and rift. Their answer to end game is add in some boring new raid and have to grind out another raid to get the new purple items that bring your item level up. Blizzard is successful for that because its just like an Esport to tons of people as they have to brag about what they killed and how awesome their guild is at raid pve. Guild Wars 2 has esport pvp and casual large scale pvp that will drive the end game just fine for a lot of people. People that want to raid in pve im sure will get a chance later on down the road as people will whine and they will add some sort of raiding into the game. DAOC had raiding but you didnt see anyone doing it but random pugs about once a week . The end game in DAOC everyone enjoyed was the RVR which is what GW2 seems to be trying to produce and sell.  Sorry but i know i dont want to every patch have to go out and do some chore of a raid with people stroking their Epeen just to be competitive , that mess dies with wow.

So everyone striving to look badass isn't epeen stroking? Talk about calling the kettle black.. lol. Some people in WoW just like doing the group content with their buddies. That drives the game more than the elitist 5%. I'm sure there will be no bragging and no epeen stroking in GW2, that's checked at the front door, right?

Some people are just silly with their comparison of GW2 to other games.

um nope but thanks for twisting that up. I never said there will not be bragging its an Esport game so there is going to be tons. But you took what you wanted out of the comment and turned it into what you liked. The point is some of us are tired of every couple of months having to chase gear to be competitive. If you want to grind cosmetics so be it thats your business but at least in GW2 you do not have to do it to be competitive. Most people out there do not want to be forced to grind or raid every couple of months to contribute to their teams in pvp. Rift just raised their prestiage to 50 thats another grind instead of just adding in more then conquest. They add raids with new tier gear every patch to. Wow does the exact same thing every other patch makng previous gear scores obsolete. But hey thanks for taking the entire comment out of context just to troll.

  helthros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1477

7/18/12 11:35:49 PM#100
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by cronius77
Originally posted by Thupli

Funny:

 

I heard that in wow every few months a new patch drops and your gear is de-valued and you have to do it all over again.

 

I heard that in GW2, after you get the best gear... you must grind for a second set of cosmetic gear....

 

...WAIT... that isnt' right!  Who are those folks that keep saying it's just a different grind for cosmetic gear?  That is ridiculous.... once you have one set you are on an even playing field in the Mists and never have to grind again due to gear de-valuation.

 

 

you hit the nail right on with items in these carrot on a stick games like wow and rift. Their answer to end game is add in some boring new raid and have to grind out another raid to get the new purple items that bring your item level up. Blizzard is successful for that because its just like an Esport to tons of people as they have to brag about what they killed and how awesome their guild is at raid pve. Guild Wars 2 has esport pvp and casual large scale pvp that will drive the end game just fine for a lot of people. People that want to raid in pve im sure will get a chance later on down the road as people will whine and they will add some sort of raiding into the game. DAOC had raiding but you didnt see anyone doing it but random pugs about once a week . The end game in DAOC everyone enjoyed was the RVR which is what GW2 seems to be trying to produce and sell.  Sorry but i know i dont want to every patch have to go out and do some chore of a raid with people stroking their Epeen just to be competitive , that mess dies with wow.

So everyone striving to look badass isn't epeen stroking? Talk about calling the kettle black.. lol. Some people in WoW just like doing the group content with their buddies. That drives the game more than the elitist 5%. I'm sure there will be no bragging and no epeen stroking in GW2, that's checked at the front door, right?

Some people are just silly with their comparison of GW2 to other games.

um nope but thanks for twisting that up. I never said there will not be bragging its an Esport game so there is going to be tons. But you took what you wanted out of the comment and turned it into what you liked. The point is some of us are tired of every couple of months having to chase gear to be competitive. If you want to grind cosmetics so be it thats your business but at least in GW2 you do not have to do it to be competitive. Most people out there do not want to be forced to grind or raid every couple of months to contribute to their teams in pvp. Rift just raised their prestiage to 50 thats another grind instead of just adding in more then conquest. They add raids with new tier gear every patch to. Wow does the exact same thing every other patch makng previous gear scores obsolete. But hey thanks for taking the entire comment out of context just to troll.

 

I haven't played wow since Lich King, but I could have sworn PvE gear was useless in PvP due to resilience. Did that change? If not, then I'm inclined to believe that you're the one trolling.

 

Oh and I would use the generalization of "most people" a little casually there. I'm sure you think you speak for the majority, but numbers say otherwise :\

 

Anyhow, back to the original conversation - I've said it before and I'll say it again: I learned at a very young age to prefer function over fashion.

The gameplay and the PvP itself should hopefully be enough to drive the game. Chasing bad ass lookin gear should hardly be considered the reason for continuing with the 'end game'.

 

I haven't been keeping 100% up-to-date on the game to avoid the hype train, but the one thing about the WvW which seems like a complete put-off is that your enemies will be name-less character models. I sincerely hope that's no longer the case because conflict is what drives MMORPG PvP - Otherwise it will just feel like an arcade game.

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