Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by Xzen

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by dageeza

Hey mikey, i and many old power grinding vets that have been grinding since the beginning and are burned out on it feel that GW2 is the natural next step in mmo innovation that will hopefully break the clone cycle in more than one way and force the industry to re-evaluate the way they build and design a new MMO..

While utterly burned out on grinding gear if a game is made to keep me having fun while doing it instead of turning into 5 dungeon repeat-athon i am sure i can muster the strength to grind again, but until this illusive not even in the pipes game arrives there is GW2...

 

LOL. It's these kinds of posts that crack me up.

In other mmorpgs you grind the same pve content for gear. You do the exact same in GW2, except it's cosmetic, but now it's not griding and people aren't burned out of it. Seriously, just LOL.

Oh, and don't tell me about how it's optional. I know, i really do. But the only other option is to quite and leave the game. You know, like every other mmo.

The only thing is there is no content that is gated by gear progression. So at least the players burnt out on the grind can enjoy all the content before the "end game grind" starts.

Cool, but it's still gear grind. I was refering to the logic of the previous poster and what most players eem to be. It's like this.

- What is teh endgame is all mmorpgs?

"Rinse and repeat dungeons, quests, events, mob invasions, etc, over and over to get a sword that deal +1 million dmg"

- I hate that. I'm burned out

- What is GW2's endgame?

"Rinse and repeat dungeons, quests, events, mob invasion, etc over and over to get a rainbow sword"

- AWESOME!

 

Like i said before, the fact that you can just wak away and stay on the same power level is cool, and i love that. Great. But the action of the endgame itself is still grinding for gear. And it's made seem like it's different and innovative. GW1 already did that. This isn't new, it's still the same endgame.

 

 

 

Agreed. End game is still a grind for gear and achievements.

Wow this game really is all things to all men. For years we were told and told that there was no endgame in GW2 - it didnt need one as the whole game was just as awesome and viable as endgame content. Now we are told that it actually does have the most incredible endgame yet to be seen in an mmo. Truely amazing, is there anything GW2 cant do?

I am looking forward to the final beta and release of gw2 - since I got a deluxe key at mmoga I am also looking forward to the headstart though ;)

but will the "endgame" of guild wars really be that awesome like they're saying? I'm not sure about this yet~ 

let's see ^^

"Ten or so years ago, players weren’t necessarily considering whether or not to play the latest and greatest MMO based on the answer to the now ubiquitous question: “So, what is there to do at level cap?” Maybe some of you were, but the notion of reaching level cap in most MMOs was often far enough way to be achievement enough. Frankly, it often took a while to get there, and the significant trek to level cap in most MMOs kept people hooked for a good while.

In a post-World of Warcraft world, where MMOs often quickly usher their players to the level cap in order to kick off the ‘real game’, the aforementioned endgame question has become paramount. This, combined with the fever pitch level of excitement many gamers are expressing for Guild Wars 2, has left many MMO veterans a bit perplexed. “Wait a minute. There are no raids in Guild Wars 2? No real power to chase? So what do you do at level cap?” they often ask. It’s an understandable question. ArenaNet is shouting (proudly) from the mountaintops their intention to cast off many archaic MMO tropes with Guild Wars 2 and it turns out a traditional endgame is on the chopping block as well."

Finally MMOs are beginning to get away from WOWs shadow.

By perplexed 'MMO veterans' perhaps you mean lazy MMO veterans who never want anything to change from 8 years ago.

Well if they don't understand things they can always go to Pandaland.

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by joeri123

Reading some of the comments here is so depressing.

People always pick on something. It will never be good enough for those people.

Can't you just be happy with what you get?

I'm thinking at least 50% of the people on this forum should leave now and explore other game genres, because it seems some people will never be pleased.

This is actually my exact problem with GW2. Everyone that is hyping the game just seems to be happy and pleased with anything ArenaNet throws at them.  IMO GW2 gear grind is for worse than any MMO that uses this system as at the very least gear in other MMO's have an impact on your character beyond the visual and  therefore more rewarding.  I do not understand how playing for skins is more rewarding than playing for skins + character progression.

Gear that has stat advancement included FORCES players into the grind.

ArenaNet is not doing that. If you don't want to grind out Legendaries, you don't have to... and you won't suffer for it. The rarer "BIS" items aren't really that rare, so players won't have to grind for endless hours to get the best gear (like they do in every other MMO).

EVERY game has grind. Even single player games. The grind isn't the problem. It's how it's presented that is the problem. For the last decade, it's been presented in EVERY MMO in EXACTLY the same way without thought or consideration for the alternatives.

GW2 changes that.

Originally posted by Beegs

Wow this game really is all things to all men. For years we were told and told that there was no endgame in GW2 - it didnt need one as the whole game was just as awesome and viable as endgame content. Now we are told that it actually does have the most incredible endgame yet to be seen in an mmo. Truely amazing, is there anything GW2 cant do?

It can't function without instances, which is a shame.

To derail this a bit, can anyone tell me if there's any kind of realm point system like DAoC in GW2's RvR?

Do you get points for killing people? Is there a penalty for people losing or will it just be aconstant churn of players?

Originally posted by toddze

Big majority of people will be bored of this game 60-90 days after launch. Its a good game, but it just doesnt have "it". The good thing is you can come back every now and then and play a little here and there.

What is this It people keep talking about.  Honesly why are people so locked into old ways.  I am concerned that GW2 will die off within a year or so In favor of grind based games.  It makes me sad because it really says something about the intelligence level of this generation of gamers.  Anyone who is intelligent must be getting bored after 10 years of grind. Ofcourse there are people who just don't like GW2 but if the reason they don't like it is because they want a grind then I have trouble believing in their intelligence, that or they have deadened their senses to enjoy simplistic lives.

Originally posted by ZeGerman

Originally posted by toddze

Big majority of people will be bored of this game 60-90 days after launch. Its a good game, but it just doesnt have "it". The good thing is you can come back every now and then and play a little here and there.

What is this It people keep talking about.  Honesly why are people so locked into old ways.  I am concerned that GW2 will die off within a year or so In favor of grind based games.  It makes me sad because it really says something about the intelligence level of this generation of gamers.  Anyone who is intelligent must be getting bored after 10 years of grind. Ofcourse there are people who just don't like GW2 but if the reason they don't like it is because they want a grind then I have trouble believing in their intelligence, that or they have deadened their senses to enjoy simplistic lives.

GW2 does have a grind. It just doesn't have any content that is gated by it.

Am I the only one who hates raiding and pointless gear grinds?  Solid skill based pvp is badass....

Looks good, traditional endgame is a joke anyways and designed for the ADHD crowd.

I see there are a few people uniformed souls in the posts above.  Let me see if I can shed a small bit of light on some items.

1) Gear Grind - yes it is there, but it it not required.  You will never be barred from areas or events in endgame because you don't have the latest legendary item.  It has also not been stated that you will repeat the same things to get the gear.  Many are speculating on the possibility of a specific quest chain or series of tasks to complete.  I'm sorry, but endless raiding to get a piece you have to have to progress != spending your time for cosmetic items that are completely optional.

2) Skill Points - Latest reports are saying that skill points will continue to acrue even tough your level is capped.  Skill points will be able to be traded for things like Mystic Forge recipies so you aren't "throwing random items into the forge hoping to get something better in return.

3) sPVP - From all accounts, structured PvP is shaping to be a valid eSport (at least it's looking like that is the goal).  So there is that avenue for endgame challenge.  Since there are no gear advantages, success will be based on skill.  What a concept.

4) WvWvW - This will have an impact on your server by providing buffs server-wide.  It's not like you're doing this stuff 'just-because.'

No, GW2 is not for everyone and doesn't pretend to be so back off haters and fanbois alike.  But don't pretend it's like everything else out there either.  There are some similarities because some things are inevitable in an MMO.  Guilds, dungeons, quests....what are the alternatives?

Give it a shot.  Unlike any onther game of similar quality, this won't cost you $240 ($60 purchase + $15/mo) to try it for a year.  So it is great for the casual gamer or the one with a job and a life.  

I get very confussed about this game.  If you want to get rid of classic "end game" create a fully persisant world with player run cities thats can be destroyed with politics and an ongoing battle for resources etc...

In my mind all Guild wars 2 has done is said ok no gear progression after you level.... thats not progress thats simply taking away a feature every other MMO seems to have. its still the classic model of rince and repat just without any real rewards.... 

Its seems by a lot of fanboi logic that If I create an MMO with no levels and no gear at all it would be the perfect MMO....

then maybe someone can just sell an empty box and that will be the next generation... obviously Im being overly dramatic but you get my point.

You cannot really do any "real" end game content in a themepark game.

You can smoke and miror some bs and try to sell it, but in the end your still riding the same rides.

Everything controllable in this game is static. It will get old eventuually. BUT you will not pay any monthlys for it. :D

Let me preface by saying that I've already purchased the game and plan to play it at least some.

I'm still wondering where this "journey" is that they talked about.  I got to almost 30 last BWE and the more I leveled the more I saw the exact same dynamic events repeated in another zone with a different skin on it.  I got so bored of them that I just explored instead.

After I had my weapon skills unlocked by 15 or so (Elementalist) there wasn't anything else there to do.

Skill Point lines are now tiered so you have to purchase things you may never want/use to get stuff you do want.  Even though I still had points I wasn't sure what to spend on and now I'm going to get even more Skill Points? Oy.

Instead of grinding for gear that makes a difference now I'm going to grind for it just for looks?  That seems like even less of a goal.  I'm supposed to grind cosmetic gear so that I can look like other people who grinded?  Ugh. I was hoping they would find a away to move away from this but I guess you can only skin a cat so many ways.

I don't really see a legendary end game because they're basing a lot of it on PvP.  That's alright I guess if you're a big PvP fan but they're trying to cater to non-PvP'ers for 80 levels.  One zone with heavy mob population (i.e. killing time sink) and dynamic events (which will start being repetative if you spend much time there) as a PvE XP grind for Skill Points seems like a step backwards.

I hope I find more to like to the game because the more time I spend playing it the less I like it :(

Originally posted by Rommie10-284

Originally posted by toddze

Big majority of people will be bored of this game 60-90 days after launch. Its a good game, but it just doesnt have "it". The good thing is you can come back every now and then and play a little here and there.

I'm inclined to agree, only because all the new "genre breaking" ideas will not be new anymore, and you'll have people in Now What mode.  Post-game management is the major roadblock of MMOs, and we won't know how ArenaNet does it until after release.

The difference being that they dont actually need to retain players. They just need to leave them feeling good enough about the game for them to return every 6 months to buy an expansion.

The first game saw declines in players after a few months, but they would all come pouring back for the new expansions simply because people loved playing through the story and trying the new class combinations. The PvPers and Achievement chasers would stick around all year round though, which will be the same case with GW2.

2-3 months is a long time to be playing any normal non-MMO game and would be well worth the box price. Most single player RPGs take me less than a week to complete.

I think my favorite posts here are the ones that go like this 'The grind at the end is exactly the same except it's different in all the ways I personally dislike so I don't understand why people think it's different'

I'll give a clue.  Maybe the ways you personally dislike, other people actually like.  If some people like something, and the only changes you see are changes you dislike, maybe other people are viewing those changes as positive.

Just saying.  It makes the world a lot easier to understand if you learn to think that way. :)

I'll give a helpful example.

'God.  People say they hated Friends, yet they really love this show and it's basically just Friends with superheroes.  Superheroes are stupid!  Therefore they must like Friends because nobody can like superheroes.'

That's about what these statements sound like to me. :T

I don't understand why people think this is a new thing? They used EXACTLY the same model in the original Guild Wars. If end game in GW didnt appeal to you, then end game in GW2 wont appeal to you. But it did appeal to millions of fans who kept returning to buy expansions, so ArenaNet must be doing something right.

Originally posted by Meowhead

I think my favorite posts here are the ones that go like this 'The grind at the end is exactly the same except it's different in all the ways I personally dislike so I don't understand why people think it's different'

I'll give a clue.  Maybe the ways you personally dislike, other people actually like.  If some people like something, and the only changes you see are changes you dislike, maybe other people are viewing those changes as positive.

Just saying.  It makes the world a lot easier to understand if you learn to think that way. :)

I'll give a helpful example.

'God.  People say they hated Friends, yet they really love this show and it's basically just Friends with superheroes.  Superheroes are stupid!  Therefore they must like Friends because nobody can like superheroes.'

That's about what these statements sound like to me. :T

Or the posts about "rinse and repeat for leggy's as end-game".

Where is the game that doesn't repeat content for "end-game". All games have an end game, they are not infinite in content, hence "end-game". 

I don't see this game as having a required grind. I see it optional. I think the people who say the grind is exactly the same, won't be able to play a game without a grind. 

They make the grind, they live the grind, then they will call it a WoW clone becuase the grinded the piss out of it.

That's just what I see though.... What do I know i'm just a blind fanboi...