Just note that the layoffs aren't based on the performance of the game, its based on the economy. If they are based on the performance then the word,"fired" would be used.

I wonder if Bioware still believes in the fouth pillar...

I'm sorry it's hard to feel bad...

They were handed the keys to the most profitable IP in the world and a massive amount of money and SWTOR was the best they could do?

It's too bad really... I doubt we'll see another try at it for a long long time... if ever.

Originally posted by Jonoku

Just note that the layoffs aren't based on the performance of the game, its based on the economy. If they are based on the performance then the word,"fired" would be used.

LOL

Ok

Again as i have said before, trimming the team once the game goes gold is how EA does it, the fact that they do it now indicates that EA consider the majority of work on the core game is done (like fixing major bugs and systems) and the team will perhaps be trimmed down even more depending on how well they set up the development tools. And don't worry to much about the "grunts" being let go. Most of them were hierd on a project basis any way knowing well and good that this day would come sooner or later.

As for the ""this game is a fail to the face" i would disagree. Is it a superb sucess beyond the wildest dreams of any one. No not even by a longshot and as aMMO it had a much higher churn then some of the bigger names in the market. But compared to EA's other MMO's i think it is a winner so far. And the 4:th pillar is pretty much what holds the game up, most people i know who play the game states that the story is what keeps them in the game. Now i can not speak for the end game as i have yet to get there (to many alt's to little time) but who knows it might improve and the game might get a second chance, especially as the majority of gamers out there are not quite as jaded and burnt out as the old crowd here.

Still i am not sure that BioWare was the right people to make a MMO... Their portfolio are mostly bombastic SP RPGs and that is a very different beast. Still it seems that EA can not figure out how to publish a good MMO, if thos is because they mess with stuff they do noe understand or if it is that they have very bad luck with debelopers i do not know

$300 million that could've gone to a needing charity or cancer research.

But it would not have gone there any way... .. .

I should also note that i think that SW:ToR is important for the development of the genre as it shows how much you actually can do with story in a MMO, the TSW team is working along the same principle, with a bit more blending then SW:ToR and giving it some more time i think that it will defacto be a part of new MMO's going forward.

Reading SWTOR news is like watching Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares show.

Why their restaurant business is failing is because the food sucks.

The one is blinded and arrogant to all this start from the management and above.

They just refused to listen.

Same with all these big fail MMO, its either most of these devs are too cocky listening to feedback or

its all just office politics. 

Originally posted by Xobdnas

That is unfortunate. The workers who made the game probably had very little say in the direction, and now they pay the price meanwhile the rich old guys keep making the same bad decisions.

You hit the nail on the head. Perfect summary.

Originally posted by dotdotdash

This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

No surprise at all.

SWTOR could have been a great game instead it's turned into the laughing stock of the industry, studios will look at them and say this is what not to do. I guess this confirms the sub numbers are continuing to decline also something that will only get worse once GW2 launches.

I used to think that even though the game wasn't that great all considered it did have the best voice acting and cut scenes in an mmo but after playing TSW it doesn't even have that anymore.  

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by dotdotdash

This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?

I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...

"to continue to grow the game and the service"

What? The game never grew in the first place.  The content provided is slow, light and not very good I would say.  Even the devil cannot spin her way out of this one.

Originally posted by Ehliya

The problem with MMO these days is that they are so expensive they have to be designed and produced by committee.  Said committee bases it decisions on lowest-common denominator marketing surveys.  Then, to avoid all risk, the suits leech out whatever life and sponteneity remains.  You end up with a colorful husk - a Frankenstein patched together by old retread ideas.

 This is a very good point.  When a committee gets involved you can only agree upon stuff that has been done 1000 times before. (no one wants to take the risk)  The visionaries will be shut down or overruled.  In a bizzare way, the more money thrown at something tends to mean the dumber it becomes.  No one wants to take a new path and risk 100 million dollars. 

I felt SWTOR copied every other cookie cutter out there and then tried to dress it up in new clothes by using some elements like voice overs. In the end, any gamer can see its the same old sh.t and get turned off.  Waving a rabbit in front of us and yelling 'look at the pretty bunny' doesn't work these days.

Still feel bad for the crew that lose their jobs.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by dotdotdash

This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?

I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...

it depends a lot on your taste in MMO's, that SW;TOR isnt universally liked is an understatement, but it isnt a really bad game, it just isnt a 'great' one, at least, not to the degree that i suspect EA/Bioware/LA would have liked, and were likely promised.. but just being an 'okay' game isnt really enough these days, having said that though, i have seen a great many far worse ones.. and the SW;TOR that was released is not the game you see today either, somebody in there was listening because they have been fixing things, so i wouldnt say that Bioware isnt listening to the players, it might just be that they were forced to push the game out the door before they were completely ready, at least, the game now has features that it most definitely needed at launch.

Originally posted by jeremyjodes

 

In The end of this firing tree trimming a new vision for the game will be born and there is nothing you can do to stop it but sve your sub money and wait it out.

 

You really are fantasy role playing your postings. Rich Vogel resigned, he wasn't fired, and in fact left Bioware back in June after the restructuring plan was made public in May. While Pokket interviewed him early June, he didn't use it to announce his resignation or comment on the restructuring at Bioware.  

So really no news. Bioware/EA are simply continuing with their direction announced in May, and SWTOR will have a lot of new content patched into it later on in the year.

Originally posted by Mors.Magne

Originally posted by tawess

Again as i have said before, trimming the team once the game goes gold is how EA does it, the fact that they do it now indicates that EA consider the majority of work on the core game is done (like fixing major bugs and systems) and the team will perhaps be trimmed down even more depending on how well they set up the development tools. And don't worry to much about the "grunts" being let go. Most of them were hierd on a project basis any way knowing well and good that this day would come sooner or later.

 

As for the ""this game is a fail to the face" i would disagree. Is it a superb sucess beyond the wildest dreams of any one. No not even by a longshot and as aMMO it had a much higher churn then some of the bigger names in the market. But compared to EA's other MMO's i think it is a winner so far. And the 4:th pillar is pretty much what holds the game up, most people i know who play the game states that the story is what keeps them in the game. Now i can not speak for the end game as i have yet to get there (to many alt's to little time) but who knows it might improve and the game might get a second chance, especially as the majority of gamers out there are not quite as jaded and burnt out as the old crowd here.

 

Still i am not sure that BioWare was the right people to make a MMO... Their portfolio are mostly bombastic SP RPGs and that is a very different beast. Still it seems that EA can not figure out how to publish a good MMO, if thos is because they mess with stuff they do noe understand or if it is that they have very bad luck with debelopers i do not know

[mod edit]

I don't think you read it right,,, did you read the rest...? 

". No not even by a longshot and as aMMO it had a much higher churn then some of the bigger names in the market."

[mod edit]

Originally posted by causs

Originally posted by dotdotdash

This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

Exactly. Even if the game was good, it felt old even at release. BioWare definitely forgot to actually look at a shifting genre. Instead they copied succesful older games without any vision.

Exactly! I don't understand how after all these years Bioware still insists on remaking KOTOR into EVERY GAME they make. Sure, in an RPG like Dragon Age I can understand those semi-cinematic interactions with npcs but SW:TOR is an MMO. The amount of interactions with NPCs in this genre of game should have been a serious flag. Instead they fully copied it so you spent more time "talking" then completing quests and my personal pet peeve was being in PUGs with delinquents forcing me to go dark on the group stuff. Group interactions hurt more than helped your character progression imo.

Originally posted by SaintPhilip

Originally posted by daltanious

Originally posted by dotdotdash

This is what happens when you fail to make a good game.

Never in my life (50 currently) have played better and more polished and bugfree game with good performance all maxed out. Everything is there, immersion, incredible natural movement of avatars, complex, incredible twists in class quests, fun abilities where nearly every one have use, there is no blind button mashing, .... playing since day 1 and I still log back every day to my 16 alts. Tried virtually all there ... but found only 3 games so far worth every penny of sub, wow, rift and now swtor.

However i can not judge for pvp or end game as I could not care less. Guess many are not happy there.

Are you joking? You cannot be for real- If you are I appologize and respect your opinion BUT thats a statement I find suspect. How many MMOs have you played?

I am not discounting your opinion if you really feel this way- We all have different tastes but...

I agree with him and completely disagree with you, [mod edit]

The hate around swtor is just epic, and mostly from people who is not even playing the game. http://www.vgchartz.com/game/31584/star-wars-the-old-republic/  over 2.37 mill of copies, probably more than 3 mill by the end of the year, just a quiestion for all the people talking about the fail of swtor, how many p2p MMO had sold over 1 mill of copies in 6 months after launch in the last 10 years? no talking about WoW.