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The Secret World

The Secret World 

General Discussion  » Combat is terrible, worse beyond Kingsmouth

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292 posts found
  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

7/17/12 5:22:09 PM#241
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Its the mechanics and how it feels/looks. The skill wheel itself is pretty cool.

how it feels/looks is subjective I personally think it looks fine. People need to learn to quick swap sets between fights if not I could see myself not enjoying the system very much but with deck swapping which I have macroed to several keys I can swap sets at the touch of a button outside combat between fights and it's a lot of fun actually.  Now if they would just fix the damn gear managment.. the fact many have not even noticed gear manager is broken shows how few people are actually really doing the deck swapping stuff.

Ya, it kind of sucks that build swapping is so damn gear dependant. Its also a shame there seems to be no built in way of doing it which funcom should have tought about. I guess build swapping on the fly might add to the overall combat exp. Unfortunately I didn't try it in the beta as it doesn't seem to be something that funcom intedted to be done in the middle of combat.

Either way, the combat itself just doesnt feel right for me. And you are right that is very subjective.

the thing is how the system is setup and how enemies are spread throughout the zones it seems the gam WAS intended to play the deck dance game and swap decks constantly between fights... but for whatever reason they didn't finish the gear manager and it brings down the whole system. When it works it works well for instance I'm walking around questing I see a group of mobs in a pack I hit a button on my mouse it brings up my AOE deck and I take them out. Right after the fight i see a lone hard mob wandering around I swap to my high single target deck and take him out. While fighting him I took some damage so I push another button to my healing deck cast a heal and head on my way to the next group. I run into an elite type mob and swap to my tankish single target damage build to finish him off. You can do this sort of stuff constantly and have a lot of options to play around with which makes it a lot of fun.. most people don't even try setting up multiple decks and playing the deck dance game and just stick with one deck then complain the combat is dull and boring

Its still not the same. Mobs are really placed the same way in most MMOs. You could also argue you could do the same thing in other mmos, swapping stuff outside of combat. In TSW though its kind of a necessity because your selection is limited, still it would have probably been a lot more attractive if it was easily doable and inside of combat.


  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

7/17/12 5:22:25 PM#242
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Gargola
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Its the mechanics and how it feels/looks. The skill wheel itself is pretty cool.

how it feels/looks is subjective I personally think it looks fine. People need to learn to quick swap sets between fights if not I could see myself not enjoying the system very much but with deck swapping which I have macroed to several keys I can swap sets at the touch of a button outside combat between fights and it's a lot of fun actually.  Now if they would just fix the damn gear managment.. the fact many have not even noticed gear manager is broken shows how few people are actually really doing the deck swapping stuff.

Ya, it kind of sucks that build swapping is so damn gear dependant. Its also a shame there seems to be no built in way of doing it which funcom should have tought about. I guess build swapping on the fly might add to the overall combat exp. Unfortunately I didn't try it in the beta as it doesn't seem to be something that funcom intedted to be done in the middle of combat.

Either way, the combat itself just doesnt feel right for me. And you are right that is very subjective.

You can't do it in the middle of combat, at all, you have to be out of combat to swap builds, gear or skills at all.

 

What he means is a fast way to change builds between combat, not while in it.

ohh I thought it was in combat...that makes build switching "on the fly" even less attractive.

as soon as you kill an enemy you can swap decks so i do it in between fights works great.. similar to Rift but in TSW yuo can set /alias commands to anything you want and you can set gear swaps using /gearmanager so by doing this I can macro keys on my g700 mouse to swap decks for me anytime not in combat. Works really well actually and is a lot of fun

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Vorthanion

Elite Member

Joined: 7/02/11
Posts: 1828

7/17/12 5:24:23 PM#243
Originally posted by pierth

OP, I really wanted to take your post seriously, but then you had to say that your big complaint is with boring combat and you've gone back to LoTRO as if that's an improvement.


TL;DR- OP complains about combat in a MMO, then returns to another MMO with (arguably) worse combat.

Different tastes for different gamers, huh.  There are quite a few of us out there who aren't interested in action oriented combat.  I happen to be one of the ones who actually likes LOTRO combat specifically because it's slower and less harsh about making mistakes.  Just like EQ and EQ II combat.  WoW was the beginning of the MMO genre downfall in my opinion as it made gameplay much more arcadish with harsh penalties if you didn't use skills in the perfect order and in with perfect timing, leaving little to no room for errors or even thought.  For some reason developers seem to equate casual gameplay with console paradigms and it just plain sucks for a casual gamer such as myself.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

7/17/12 5:24:30 PM#244
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Its still not the same. Mobs are really placed the same way in most MMOs. You could also argue you could do the same thing in other mmos, swapping stuff outside of combat. In TSW though its kind of a necessity because your selection is limited, still it would have probably been a lot more attractive if it was easily doable and inside of combat.

its a ton better than most MMOs where you are locked into the same role forever.. in this one I can see a group in trouble pop in my heal build and help them out then after we defeat those enemies i  join up with them and pop up my dps build and wreck some havok.. as I said a lot better than most MMOs

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

7/17/12 5:25:02 PM#245
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Gargola
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Its the mechanics and how it feels/looks. The skill wheel itself is pretty cool.

how it feels/looks is subjective I personally think it looks fine. People need to learn to quick swap sets between fights if not I could see myself not enjoying the system very much but with deck swapping which I have macroed to several keys I can swap sets at the touch of a button outside combat between fights and it's a lot of fun actually.  Now if they would just fix the damn gear managment.. the fact many have not even noticed gear manager is broken shows how few people are actually really doing the deck swapping stuff.

Ya, it kind of sucks that build swapping is so damn gear dependant. Its also a shame there seems to be no built in way of doing it which funcom should have tought about. I guess build swapping on the fly might add to the overall combat exp. Unfortunately I didn't try it in the beta as it doesn't seem to be something that funcom intedted to be done in the middle of combat.

Either way, the combat itself just doesnt feel right for me. And you are right that is very subjective.

You can't do it in the middle of combat, at all, you have to be out of combat to swap builds, gear or skills at all.

 

What he means is a fast way to change builds between combat, not while in it.

ohh I thought it was in combat...that makes build switching "on the fly" even less attractive.


TSW is more about planning out the fight before you engage.

I agree, it seems like they built it around that idea.


  Gargola

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 356

7/17/12 5:25:43 PM#246

I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face.  I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.

 

it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again.  If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

7/17/12 5:26:15 PM#247
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Its still not the same. Mobs are really placed the same way in most MMOs. You could also argue you could do the same thing in other mmos, swapping stuff outside of combat. In TSW though its kind of a necessity because your selection is limited, still it would have probably been a lot more attractive if it was easily doable and inside of combat.

its a ton better than most MMOs where you are locked into the same role forever.. in this one I can see a group in trouble pop in my heal build and help them out then after we defeat those enemies i  join up with them and pop up my dps build and wreck some havok.. as I said a lot better than most MMOs

Is it not the same as Rift?


  Dragviper

Advanced Member

Joined: 1/23/10
Posts: 97

7/17/12 5:28:28 PM#248

Does anyone have a buddy pass that can share with me please? :)

http://www.webestools.com/page/images/uploads/signature_seoeblWtso6141.png

  Kuppa

Novice Member

Joined: 9/24/10
Posts: 3442

The problem with censorship is ********

7/17/12 5:29:10 PM#249
Originally posted by Dragviper

Does anyone have a buddy pass that can share with me please? :)

lol 


  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

7/17/12 5:29:32 PM#250
Originally posted by Kuppa
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Kuppa
 

Its still not the same. Mobs are really placed the same way in most MMOs. You could also argue you could do the same thing in other mmos, swapping stuff outside of combat. In TSW though its kind of a necessity because your selection is limited, still it would have probably been a lot more attractive if it was easily doable and inside of combat.

its a ton better than most MMOs where you are locked into the same role forever.. in this one I can see a group in trouble pop in my heal build and help them out then after we defeat those enemies i  join up with them and pop up my dps build and wreck some havok.. as I said a lot better than most MMOs

Is it not the same as Rift?

its similar but Rift still had classes.. I loved Rift just for the fact you weren't locked into a role but still limited to the class. Either way I feel any game that allows freedom to choose roles and pick what you want to be at any given time instead of locking you into a single role like other games is leaps better in my book.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  tares

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/11
Posts: 384

7/17/12 5:33:25 PM#251
Originally posted by jdnyc
Originally posted by 9reesracer9

Krytycal's raison d'être is to bash TSW combat. he's been doing it for weeks (going back into beta). he spends the time to make and post craftily edited videos on youtube, and then spends hours in these forums explaining to everyone how much it sucks, both in PvP and PvE. my god, man...why do you continue on with this? if you clearly hate it so much, go play something else until your beloved GW2 releases. 

some people like the idea of experimenting with builds to find the most effective combinations, not merely the most efficient in terms of button-mashing. 

does it matter so much to you that one person might be convinced not to play the game after you continue to bang this drum so loudly?  go troll somewhere else please. you've made your point, such as it is.

Besides the fact that I don't believe he used outer tier abilities for mid range content because he wouldn't have them unlocked yet.  His refusal to acknowledge that tanks need to use hate/threat generation and interrupts astounds me.  Which in of itself would acknowledge that you need to hit more than 2 or 3 buttons. 

Right there is more than a two button spam fest.  But if you want to talk about spam fest - GW2 has an auto-attack, so the game does the spamming for you to begin with.

That's the point I think is the most laughable when those that are craddling the GW2 combat so much accuse TSW of being all about spam.  srsly.

 

The taunt, you use once in a fight and if the fight lasts 30 hours you can do well with a two button rotation after. If one weapon is swords, even better.

The second part doesn't hold, GW2 spent much more effort polishing the game and even more so on combat.  Even with limited skills. The skills present play differently within a single class then two opposite builds in TSW.  I can't think of a single MMO with such underwhelming skills, even the (Elite) abilities are just basic CC. Read any review, the combat was put on blast in TSW and I would think the two button spam combat would be one of the reasons, another would be weak abilities all around. 

Here is why GW2 combat is better, better defined skills and more strategy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rO6tyJ8oG6E

 

 

  Painlezz

Apprentice Member

Joined: 5/30/11
Posts: 628

7/17/12 5:33:39 PM#252

I agree, combat is boring in TSW.

 

It isn't so much about the button mashing (because that's pretty common as other have stated) but the fact that abilities are so boring.

 

Yes, you can get a skill that stuns if the target has a bleed on them.  Ok, so you get a bleed ability and the stun ability.  The fact that you're limited to I think 7 skill slots really kills it.  You basically have a very simple rotation and thats it.  Put a debuff on target, cast another spell that gets a bonus because of that debuff, now spam your basic builder attack till you're ready to repeat the first process.

 

Combat never changes.  You always do the same thing from one fight to the next.  I'll use a very VERY basic example of how a simple combat system can still be fun.

 

In WoW, as a druid, I could sneak around in cat form, ambush someone for big damage, unload a few attacks then switch to bear form and do a few more attacks and a big stun.  I would then switch to human and cast a root, take a few steps back, heal myself, switch back into bear form and charge them to interrupt a spell cast or something.  Maybe switch to cat form again?  Maybe stay bear...  I would have TONS of options in combat.  Each fight would be very different.  

 

That is what this game lacks, you have 7 skills and thats it.  Those skills always do the same thing no matter what and never change.  They really should have given you two sets of 7 skills, one for each weapon.  Allowing you to switch between then changing your build and playstyle.   But instead you get limited to one set of 7 which really makes having 2 weapons pointless as they share those limited 7 slots.

  Gargola

Novice Member

Joined: 12/14/05
Posts: 356

7/17/12 5:35:47 PM#253

Or you use team dynamics, where different members produce or exploit different states or effects.

  jonp200

Novice Member

Joined: 6/28/12
Posts: 35

7/17/12 5:36:00 PM#254
Originally posted by wombat5x5

I have wanted to love this game, but I can't. It's just tedious. The combat is a horrible button mash fest. Everything else is stellar. The atmosphere is perfect, the quests are fine. But the combat is atrocious. AOC was sooo much better in this area. I've gone back to lotro and won't be renewing my sub. I appreciate TSW and what it's trying to be, but I don't have the time or patience for it. Instead of getting better, things just get worse as you progress. Crafting is a pain in the ass instead of something to look forward to. It seems like tedium and repetition are the games replacement for leveling up due to lack of content. Otherwise, a small area takes forever due to really slow advancement and the intention of keeping players in one area as long as possible. On top of that, there is very little reference to secret societies and all that. TOTALLY dissappointed...

You are certainly entitled to your own opinion even if you are wrong.

Seaspite
Officer
The Band
Bandbrothers-tdd.enjin.com

  MattVid

Novice Member

Joined: 5/19/04
Posts: 407

7/17/12 5:36:41 PM#255

This is the exact reason I didn't purchase it. I loved everything but the combat.

Those talking about "decks" and what not. Sure, there is some synergy you can probably get into, but I never got that far into beta to really explore it. It still comes down to only having 8 skills. I found myself pretty much just mashing 2-3 buttons the entire time, and firing off the other 5-6 for defensive CD's, or special boosts in combat. Other than that though, it doesn't feel all that in depth.

This has nothing to do with "tab targetting". Dodging simply seems stupid in the game. You can only do it 1 time and the CD is incredibly long. Also, the fact that every single deck (no matter what you combine) is a "WoW Rogue" combat point system. It just doesn't feel different enough.

Combine that with the incredible lack of replayability in the game, it is pretty much a 1 and done as far as creating characters. Again, the story and the quests I thought were great, but the gameplay (combat, what you are doing 90% of the time playing) is simply too mashy and boring, I thought.

To each their own, but I can see how people get bored of this. I was within 2-4 hours of playing the beta. Pulling X amount of mobs, popping a few CD's and spamming 2 AoE's to kill them all. Too easy, too brainless.

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

7/17/12 5:48:11 PM#256
Originally posted by Gargola

I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face.  I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.

 

it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again.  If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.

I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.

This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.

I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

7/17/12 5:53:57 PM#257
Originally posted by Krytycal
Originally posted by Gargola

I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face.  I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.

 

it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again.  If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.

I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.

This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.

I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.

curious as to which MMO has this because I have played tank in countless MMOs and can't remember playing one that had what I would call a complex rotation to tank anything.. come to think of it can't remember any MMO ever having a complex rotation per say.. some you had more options for differn't situations like dominators in Rift or Druids in WoW and such but overall the min/max rotations people fall into are far from complex in most cases... also don't see diablo fans complain they only get 6 buttons total either or fps complain they mainly only using two buttons.. not everything is about how many buttons you get to use

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

7/17/12 6:01:38 PM#258
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Krytycal
Originally posted by Gargola

I now do as Aerowyn states, changing builds from encounter to encounter depending on the enemies i'm about to face.  I usually had my main solo build (basically my main DPS one) but having builds for different purpose makes it all much fun and dynamic.

 

it is possible to go around just using the same build, yes, but it's like going to a restaurant, seing 20 different meals, all good, all enjoyable, all with their own "flavor" and spice, then always selecting the same, no matter what, over and over again.  If on top of that you then complaint about lack of variety, well... it's completely on you.

I don't have a problem with variety and I love the fact that you can use just about any weapon or ability in the game. It's more with the fact that once you're set on a build, the game forces you into spamming the same 2-3 buttons with pretty much every spec. Sure you could use 7 attacks if you wanted to spice up the combat, but it's not very effective. You're better off using 1 builder and the one or two consumers that better complement your passives. The rest of the points are better spent in utility skills that generally have long cooldowns.

This isn't just me either, everywhere I look, even in the hardest of content, I see people spamming the same 2-3 abilities all the time. When I look at their builds, that's pretty much all the attacks they have. These are good players, too. Why do they do that? Because it's the most effective way to get things done.

I personally don't think it should be, but for me being effective comes first. I'd love for my tank to have a very complex rotation with various different attacks, but I can't because if I pick more attacks I'd have to give up defensive cooldowns, interrupts and taunts, thereby making things harder for my team. So I spam the same ability, because I can't afford to use more.

curious as to which MMO has this because I have played tank in countless MMOs and can't remember playing one that had what I would call a complex rotation to tank anything.. come to think of it can't remember any MMO ever having a complex rotation per say.. some you had more options for differn't situations like dominators in Rift or Druids in WoW and such but overall the min/max rotations people fall into are far from complex in most cases... also don't see diablo fans complain they only get 6 buttons total either or fps complain they mainly only using two buttons.. not everything is about how many buttons you get to use

Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.

This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.

  Aerowyn

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/20/12
Posts: 7969

7/17/12 6:04:17 PM#259
Originally posted by Krytycal
 

Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.

This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.

you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation. You could also setup multiple tank builds depending on the mob setup and difficulty not to mention depending on how strong your group is.

I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  Krytycal

Novice Member

Joined: 4/17/06
Posts: 527

7/17/12 6:06:23 PM#260
Originally posted by Aerowyn
Originally posted by Krytycal
 

Last MMO I tanked in was City of Heroes. I played a SS/Electric tank. I used 4 attacks at least. All with CDs under 15 secs, or even faster depending on how much attack speed I was using at the moment.

This is the first MMO where my tanking rotation consists of hitting one button 90% of the time.

you can easily setup a tank build in this game to utilize all 7 active skills and use them all constantly.. so not really sure what your issue is if you enjoyed CoH and were fine with a 4 button rotation.

I'm sure you could, but that tank won't make it past the first boss in NM Polaris.

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