Originally posted by legendsolo

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

You're asking for a deep, complex and rich virtual worlds.

Unfortunatly, mmorpgs today are all about "action action action fight fight fight combat combat combat".

In-depth crafting, rich stories, immserive open wolrds, community orinted, etc is not what the mass makert wants. Because it's too hard and grind and it's not super super mega fun right off the bat.

thats one of the reasons i cant enjoy todays mmo's, i dont want an interactive movie but a virtual world where i can live in.

for a non combat loving mmo player there isnt much out there...really wish i could enjoy them but doing quest after quest killing mobs isnt my cup of tea.

i dont need fancy graphics, action combat  or being a hero on an epic adventure just a living virtual world with a basic set of non combat features, seems im asking too much...

I don't mind combat at all. I love action combat system. But what trully annoyes me is that it takes priority above and beyond anything else, including all the activities it associates with. Questing, story, dungeons, pvp. All the rest is even more shoe-horned than pvp into pve games.

I'd love an mmorpg where the bulk of the content is sandboxy (not owpvp with no laws of course) with awesome combat and battles to be something you can only do from time to time in short burst. Like 20% of the game. The rest would be a player driven world

Originally posted by Miyuukun

Perhaps these "interactive movies" shouldn't even been called MMO's at all.  They're basically single player games with some multiplayer features added and oh, by the way, gaming companies get to charge you a monthly fee to play them.  Box sales + money coming in monthly until the hapless consumers catch on to our scheme - can life get better?  I submit that it cannot....

And perhaps these "sandbox" games shouldn't even be called mmorpg's at all. They're basically just life simulators for people who are lacking such things in a real life, with some lame combat features added. I propose we refer to them as MMOSims from here on out.

Apart from the "action" aspect detracting from your non combat content you also have to look at things like the gear treadmill. What's the point of spending all that time and money developing gathering and crafting systems and then immediatly making it redundant by including dropped loot that far surpasses anything that can be crafted?

Not since SWG and DAoC has there been an MMO that I can think of where player crafted items were the best available. Except for EVE, but that's a sandbox rather than a theme-gimme-uber-stuff-now-park.

First answer that sprung to mind was "Optimism", followed by "Courtesy".  Crafting was honestly pretty far down the list of possible answers.

Originally posted by xikrib

I've tried out many MMO's in the passed 4 or 5 years. Everything from Runescape to Guild Wars 2. I have noticed, however, that many MMO's are missing out on something that I love.

I love having skills like fishing, woodcutting, mining, cooking, etc. like Runescape has. Many MMO's don't have this. It's what keeps me going back to Runescape (plus the new combat system they're adding). I love how you could level up all these skills, make money off of it, and get better equipment/wood/fish etc. to make plenty of different things.

All in all, I just wish more MMO's had the type of skills Runescape had tha you could actually level up or at least something very close to that. It gives a more lifelike experience in the game.

Does not both WoW and GW2 have this?Havent tried Runescape so those are my only references. 

Runescape's crafting system is pretty good, but god damn is that one hell of a grindathon of a game! You have to grind bloody everything. I played it for a couple of years, got bored, decided to try it again a couple of months ago to see how it had evolved and then got a computer virus from it. Fun times :(.

Originally posted by Miyuukun

 

Perhaps these "interactive movies" shouldn't even been called MMO's at all.  They're basically single player games with some multiplayer features added and oh, by the way, gaming companies get to charge you a monthly fee to play them.  Box sales + money coming in monthly until the hapless consumers catch on to our scheme - can life get better?  I submit that it cannot....

So you have no problem when they are F2P?

Box sales & subs are so behind the times. Most MMOs are F2P anyway. And what is wrong with SP games with MP features?

Meaningful crafting and gathering is largely gone because the greater portion of a major modern MMO's potential audience doesn't want to "waste time" leveling their skills or to feel like they're "forced" to interact with other players to obtain desirable items.

I enjoy chatting with guildmates and friends I've made in the game, and something mindless like fishing is an excellent activity to do while carrying on a conversation.  It's like playing Snood while hanging out in your college dorm room, except my character is gaining some small benefit in the process.

That ability to make the player feel like he's accomplishing something even while 99% committed to socializing, whether it's leveling up a skill or playing a minigame, is something that should carry greater weight in MMO design IMO.

Originally posted by xikrib

I've tried out many MMO's in the passed 4 or 5 years. Everything from Runescape to Guild Wars 2. I have noticed, however, that many MMO's are missing out on something that I love.

I love having skills like fishing, woodcutting, mining, cooking, etc. like Runescape has. Many MMO's don't have this. It's what keeps me going back to Runescape (plus the new combat system they're adding). I love how you could level up all these skills, make money off of it, and get better equipment/wood/fish etc. to make plenty of different things.

All in all, I just wish more MMO's had the type of skills Runescape had tha you could actually level up or at least something very close to that. It gives a more lifelike experience in the game.

You havent been looking in the right place.

http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Crafting own quests,equipment and takes as long to level up as adventuring.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg5f-IXSmCs

Diplomacy

http://wiki.silkyvenom.com/index.php/Diplomacy own quests equipment and takes as long to level up as the other two spheres.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O9xozoQJpcU

Fishing This is lake fresh water fishing but you also have deep sea salt fishing that is done out in the vast oceans of Telon.You also have different rods with stats.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06awxmTdMhY

Also crafting these http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-CyNiaSlUSw&list=PLA39106774CE8F0E2&index=14&feature=plpp_video

FTP is coming but if you can't wait the download http://vanguard.station.sony.com/isleofdawn/

I agree with this, ive always been a fan of fishing and woodcutting, they are usually the professions I invest also of energy in.

Also in MMO's I really enjoy gardening, growing my own herbs and mats :)

Have you played Second Life?

Have you played Second Life?

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by Miyuukun

Perhaps these "interactive movies" shouldn't even been called MMO's at all.  They're basically single player games with some multiplayer features added and oh, by the way, gaming companies get to charge you a monthly fee to play them.  Box sales + money coming in monthly until the hapless consumers catch on to our scheme - can life get better?  I submit that it cannot....

And perhaps these "sandbox" games shouldn't even be called mmorpg's at all.

Except sandbox games support massive numbers of people in a multiplayer social evironment. WoW clones do not. Therefore, "sandbox" games deserve the MMO title.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by Sythion

Originally posted by Miyuukun

Perhaps these "interactive movies" shouldn't even been called MMO's at all.  They're basically single player games with some multiplayer features added and oh, by the way, gaming companies get to charge you a monthly fee to play them.  Box sales + money coming in monthly until the hapless consumers catch on to our scheme - can life get better?  I submit that it cannot....

And perhaps these "sandbox" games shouldn't even be called mmorpg's at all.

Except sandbox games support massive numbers of people in a multiplayer social evironment. WoW clones do not. Therefore, "sandbox" games deserve the MMO title.

"deserve" the title? Language use is not based on what you think "deserve" to be called whatever. It is by common usage.

And why argue semantics? You will never win. Are you going to best buy and try to convince all their employees that TOR is not a MMORPG?

I think they are missing a representation of living in the world they are based on.

Too many corners being cut.

Because of the 40 or something skills you could level up in Runescape, I almost never felt bored.  There was always something to do.  Back in the day, it would take literally years to level up skills to max... there was no end game, it was great.  Some people just focused on fishing, or mining, they would spend all their time doing just that.  Others tried to level up all skills slowly, the game felt like it had a society in it .  Everyone would take their trade to Varrok to try and sell everything... Soo awesome...if only the graphics were like Diablo 3 .......man it pains me to think of the state of the MMO market.