Originally posted by Kopogero

So let's see to sum it all up for the last decade

PRESENT time = 0 interest in any MMORPG or 99% of single player PC games. I happened to go back and try to finish some missed games like FFX, FF12 and pretty much thats about it.

So I must thank the developers and their awesome job for turning one of the most hardcore players on the planet into a game free individual. Thank you so much, without your lack of imagination and lazy work I would be playing something right now than thanking you!

LOL

I concur. I've missed so many console titles playing MMOs pretty constant from 2000 to 2008 that I went back to play the stand out titles and really felt foolish chasing that darn carrot on a stick.

I'm honestly more intrested in Assassin's Creed 3 than even Guild Wars 2, but I'm still hopeful with every year passing by there will be one MMORPG title that comes along and sparks that magic again.

Until that time I'm glad the single player developers have actually grown over the last decade rather than de-evolve like the MMORPG market.

Originally posted by Mardukk

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by itgrowls

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Originally posted by Belarion Er Mah Gerd!   GW2. Duh!   That is all

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LMSO thanks for that! I've often wanted to say that to so many people on here! But it is true that GW2 while not a lazy project nor a broken game, doesn't appeal to the so called hard core PVE players because there isn't a gear treadmill, there isn't a monthly fee, there aren't raids to get geared for before doing the same dungeons ad nausium, they aren't forced to be online constantly to do anything they find meaningful (like get gear grind, grind rep), there isn't gear solely from raids they can wear to walk about the major cities and strut making them feel relevant, and finally, there isn't  this bloated advantage in pvp where it doesn't matter how skilled or terrible you might be you have macros and gear that gives you an unfair advantage.

 

 

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Or maybe some of us came into the genre wanting mmos that arent about jumping into action with combat only classes where we hone our leet skillz.

Haha!  Couldn't have said it better.  I'm currently playing TSW.  While I really like the deck/build theorycrafting freedom and some interesting quests I'm finding the rest of the game to be paperthin.  While I thought SWTOR was the antithesis of a virtual world I'm starting to think TSW is a close second.  Small zones and nothing gives you the feeling that you're actually in a world.  It has the console feel down pat.  Developer content driven to the nth extent.  It's funny everyone bitches about WoW but it's actually more virtual worldy than the latest AAA MMO's released. 

 

I think there is no doubt that devs are going to end up in the lobby heavily instanced MMO game design.  Player freedom or non combat things to do be damned.

 

Sidenote: Did anyone ever know anyone that had a Neo Geo?

Neo Geo sounds familiar, was it a console of some sort?

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Originally posted by Mardukk
Sidenote: Did anyone ever know anyone that had a Neo Geo?

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I had a Neo Geo

@OP

Out of curiosity, who was considering you, I quote, "one of the most hardcore gamers on the planet"? Just you, your friends, or some official organism?

It's a pretty broad claim, so I'm just curious, because despite being into video games since 30+ years and playing them also daily, I've never heard of you (as "Kopogero" at least).

This is not a flame btw, but since the OP made this broad claim, I'd like to know more :)

Originally posted by Worstluck

Originally posted by Castillle

Im pretty sure theres a shopkeeping game in Steam somewhere..I remember trying out the demo and it was pretty fun!

 

Here you go, it's called Receatter:

http://store.steampowered.com/app/70400/

Probably one of my favorite games I've played in the last 5 years.

A whole game that played like the Dragon Quest shopkeeper hero. (I don't recall if it was 3 or another title hmm...)

Originally posted by Foomerang

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Originally posted by BadSpock
I've been around since UO circa 1999 and I believe the genre is finally getting back on track.

 

2004 to early 2012 were pretty rough - lots of new games, nothing really "special" after WoW.

There is hope for the future - some bright lights on the horizon, some of us feel that shortly we are finally going to see the dawn.

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And those of us that have been console gamers for the past 25 years are getting a strong feeling of dejavu. Im glad this is new for you though. Enjoy.

Have been doing console games for at least 25 years too.

Console games are 1000000x what they used to be.

Infititely more complex and engaging/immersive - generally do to the fact it's really hard to immerse the player with midi sound, 8 bit graphics, and a two button game pad!

Progress is a march forward, not backwards.

We have made progress. The MMO genre has made progress. We've been in a rut for the past 7-8 years... that's what happens when something comes along that redefines the standards.

We are coming out of that rut. I honestly believe that.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Foomerang

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Originally posted by BadSpock

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Have been doing console games for at least 25 years too.

Console games are 1000000x what they used to be.

Infititely more complex and engaging/immersive - generally do to the fact it's really hard to immerse the player with midi sound, 8 bit graphics, and a two button game pad!

Progress is a march forward, not backwards.

We have made progress. The MMO genre has made progress. We've been in a rut for the past 7-8 years... that's what happens when something comes along that redefines the standards.

We are coming out of that rut. I honestly believe that.

I wish I had your optimism.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Whats funny is I used to play nothing but console games. Then PSO came out and introduced me to online co-op. Then SWG came out and opened up a whole new perspective on gaming for me. Now nearly ten years later, I feel like I'm chasing a ghost, chewing through mmos that resemble the old console games I used to play. The irony is that I am coming full circle playing consoles again. And I'm finding games that more closely capture that classic mmorpg feel than all these new pc mmorpgs.

Your not the only one who feels like you're chasing a ghost. Well said.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by Foomerang

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Originally posted by BadSpock
I've been around since UO circa 1999 and I believe the genre is finally getting back on track.

 

2004 to early 2012 were pretty rough - lots of new games, nothing really "special" after WoW.

There is hope for the future - some bright lights on the horizon, some of us feel that shortly we are finally going to see the dawn.

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And those of us that have been console gamers for the past 25 years are getting a strong feeling of dejavu. Im glad this is new for you though. Enjoy.

Have been doing console games for at least 25 years too.

Console games are 1000000x what they used to be.

Infititely more complex and engaging/immersive - generally do to the fact it's really hard to immerse the player with midi sound, 8 bit graphics, and a two button game pad!

Progress is a march forward, not backwards.

We have made progress. The MMO genre has made progress. We've been in a rut for the past 7-8 years... that's what happens when something comes along that redefines the standards.

We are coming out of that rut. I honestly believe that.

I agree with Spock once again (must be because both Vulcans and Korrigans have pointy ears...). We were stuck in the WoW clone model for 7+ years, with the only games trying to "break the mold" being poor quality games made by crap amateur developers. Now we start to see games which go away from that model and which are made by AAA developers.

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Originally posted by BadSpock

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Originally posted by Foomerang

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Originally posted by BadSpock I've been around since UO circa 1999 and I believe the genre is finally getting back on track.   2004 to early 2012 were pretty rough - lots of new games, nothing really "special" after WoW. There is hope for the future - some bright lights on the horizon, some of us feel that shortly we are finally going to see the dawn.

---

And those of us that have been console gamers for the past 25 years are getting a strong feeling of dejavu. Im glad this is new for you though. Enjoy.

---

Have been doing console games for at least 25 years too.

Console games are 1000000x what they used to be.

Infititely more complex and engaging/immersive - generally do to the fact it's really hard to immerse the player with midi sound, 8 bit graphics, and a two button game pad!

Progress is a march forward, not backwards.

We have made progress. The MMO genre has made progress. We've been in a rut for the past 7-8 years... that's what happens when something comes along that redefines the standards.

We are coming out of that rut. I honestly believe that.

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Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;)

The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games. LIke I said, I'm glad that there are people finding this stuff new and refreshing. It broadens their palette. There are genres that I am unfamiliar with that have been around for decades. I bet if I jumped into a really good rts I would be opening a whole new perspective. But I wouldnt have the audacity to herald a new dawn. Id have the sense to realize this is simply new to me, not society as a whole lol.

Originally posted by Foomerang

Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;)

The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games.

Your reality is not everybody else's reality, and even less "the" reality ;-)

As I said, I've been playing video games on various platforms for over 30 years, and comparing MMORPGs to PS2 games is just... nonsense (as in "doesn't make any sense at all").

Actually, I think WoW is a Soulcalibur clone... I mean, both have swords.

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Foomerang

Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;)

The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games.

Your reality is not everybody else's reality, and even less "the" reality ;-)

As I said, I've been playing video games on various platforms for over 30 years, and comparing MMORPGs to PS2 games is just... nonsense (as in "doesn't make any sense at all").

Actually, I think WoW is a Soulcalibur clone... I mean, both have swords.

Mr. Literal has a place in the subway.

Honestly I think the comparison is that MMORPGs have stagnated at 2004.

I mean TOR's biggest claim to fame is voice acting through-out. I played PS1 games with that feature. Hell that's barely as impressive now as the first time I played NBA Jam on a Genesis and kept hearing BOOMSHAKALAKA all the time.

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by BadSpock

We have made progress. The MMO genre has made progress. We've been in a rut for the past 7-8 years... that's what happens when something comes along that redefines the standards.

We are coming out of that rut. I honestly believe that.

I wish I had your optimism.

We still have a long way to go to fully realize the potential of this genre, but we are making progress.

As the technology advances, so too will the possibilities presented to us in games.

I think the genre needs to go back to the virtual world roots yet retain a lot of the ease of access and advancement in accessability and features.

The biggest hinderance right now is bandwidth - though processing power is still finite too. Bandwidth limits how "massively" things can be. Even the "biggest" and most "massively" MMO out there - EvE is essentially sharded. Each system is it's own "instance" just because we don't yet have the tech and the bandwidth to make a virtual world/universe without those kinds of boundries and limitations.

I mean, imagine an EvE online with a completely open universe. Travel from person to ship to space to system to next system to planet back to person - without seems.

Thousands of players and NPCs and ships in a single system without time dialation.

Free flight from vacuum to the surface of a planet to hopping out of your ship and walking around and back again...

10-15 years these things, this kind of scale and truly "massively multiplayer" will be not only possible but the new norm.

We'll look back at the days of loading screens and zoning and and player caps and laugh, with rosey eyed glasses, at how primitive it is.

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Foomerang

Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;)

The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games.

Your reality is not everybody else's reality, and even less "the" reality ;-)

As I said, I've been playing video games on various platforms for over 30 years, and comparing MMORPGs to PS2 games is just... nonsense (as in "doesn't make any sense at all").

Actually, I think WoW is a Soulcalibur clone... I mean, both have swords.

Mr. Literal has a place in the subway.

Honestly I think the comparison is that MMORPGs have stagnated at 2004.

I mean TOR's biggest claim to fame is voice acting through-out. I played PS1 games with that feature. Hell that's barely as impressive now as the first time I played NBA Jam on a Genesis and kept hearing BOOMSHAKALAKA all the time.

Thanks for confirming what I was saying. So TOR is similar to a PS1 game because both have voice overs? It's quite similar to my silly WoW/Soulcalibur comparison. Let's go further, and say EvE is a Space Invaders clone because both have spaceships. No? Why not?

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Foomerang

Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;)

The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games.

Your reality is not everybody else's reality, and even less "the" reality ;-)

As I said, I've been playing video games on various platforms for over 30 years, and comparing MMORPGs to PS2 games is just... nonsense (as in "doesn't make any sense at all").

Actually, I think WoW is a Soulcalibur clone... I mean, both have swords.

Mr. Literal has a place in the subway.

Honestly I think the comparison is that MMORPGs have stagnated at 2004.

I mean TOR's biggest claim to fame is voice acting through-out. I played PS1 games with that feature. Hell that's barely as impressive now as the first time I played NBA Jam on a Genesis and kept hearing BOOMSHAKALAKA all the time.

Thanks for confirming what I was saying. So TOR is similar to a PS1 game because both have voice overs? It's quite similar to my silly WoW/Soulcalibur comparison. Let's go further, and say EvE is a Space Invaders clone because both have spaceships. No? Why not?

Yeah, the only thing TOR brought to the genre was cut scenes and voice acting. It's very comprable to a PS1 game.

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Originally posted by The_Korrigan

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Originally posted by Foomerang Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;) The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games.

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Your reality is not everybody else's reality, and even less "the" reality ;-)

As I said, I've been playing video games on various platforms for over 30 years, and comparing MMORPGs to PS2 games is just... nonsense (as in "doesn't make any sense at all").

Actually, I think WoW is a Soulcalibur clone... I mean, both have swords.

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Thanks for thinking critically. I look at what mmos are offering recently, and it is obvious they are borrowing from established genres heavily. Strong personal stories, platforming, weapon swapping, active dodging, combos, dynamic events, etc. These are old hat for other genres and have been a staple on consoles since the 90s. Final Fantasy, Ninja Gaiden, GTA, Shenmue, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry, Jet Set Radio, Sonic, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Phantasy Star Online, Rez, the list is infinite.

Taking these types of gaming and making them massively multiplayer is not suddenly redefining the genre. It definitely adds to the variety of mmos out there but I look at where mmos were heading up to 2003 and you must be blind to think what we have now is an evolution. Its a fun diversion, but its not groundbreaking or innovative. And really thats the point of these games is to be a fun distraction, a bit of entertainment. But as an enthusiast, its a shame that this is the apparent new direction of the genre, considering where it had the potential to grow. It got too popular way too fast and everyone came in, slapping old formulas onto the mmo space like a gold rush.

Like I said, I'm glad this is an eye opener to some folks. I enjoy them for what they are as well. They are a good bit of fun for a couple months.

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by bunnyhopper

Originally posted by BadSpock

We have made progress. The MMO genre has made progress. We've been in a rut for the past 7-8 years... that's what happens when something comes along that redefines the standards.

We are coming out of that rut. I honestly believe that.

I wish I had your optimism.

We still have a long way to go to fully realize the potential of this genre, but we are making progress.

As the technology advances, so too will the possibilities presented to us in games.

I think the genre needs to go back to the virtual world roots yet retain a lot of the ease of access and advancement in accessability and features.

The biggest hinderance right now is bandwidth - though processing power is still finite too. Bandwidth limits how "massively" things can be. Even the "biggest" and most "massively" MMO out there - EvE is essentially sharded. Each system is it's own "instance" just because we don't yet have the tech and the bandwidth to make a virtual world/universe without those kinds of boundries and limitations.

First, Eve doesn't realy have instances, because anyone can go to these places.

Second, "as tech advances so too will the possibilties" I thought that too, except possibilties have been getting less and less with each MMO.

But yes, virtual world roots. Currently, tech isn't what is limiting MMOs. We already have games that allow 500 man sieges in real time combat with balistics tracking (made by a 30 man team in Greece with no publisher). It's game design and WoW clones that are crippling things.

Originally posted by Kopogero

So let's see to sum it all up for the last decade

Before 2001 = Was considered one of the most hardcore gamers on the planet. Played almost every single SNES, NES, PSX and Dreamcast title avaliable as well as I enjoyed arcade and PC net gaming with friends outside.

2001 = Since I got my PC lost complete interest in most single player games. I was totally addicted to the online gameplay from FPS shooters like CS, HL, UT and RTS like SC to playing most big title MMORPGs like UO, SWG, WOW and many many others F2P or smaller P2P titles.

2011 = DCUO was one of my last MMORPG that I enjoyed for 2-3 months and Aion happened to last around the same.

PRESENT time = 0 interest in any MMORPG or 99% of single player PC games. I happened to go back and try to finish some missed games like FFX, FF12 and pretty much thats about it.

So I must thank the developers and their awesome job for turning one of the most hardcore players on the planet into a game free individual. Thank you so much, without your lack of imagination and lazy work I would be playing something right now than thanking you!

Although my choice of games are a little different, we share the same mindset on the genre. I am holding on to my last MMORPG (Vanguard: Saga of Heroes) and when the day finally comes to close up all of my accounts, I will have nothing to go to other than F2P/B2P shit that is ruling the world at the moment. So I will most likely take a long break or leave completely.

I think GW2 will be fun for a short while but it will hold no lasting impression with me as there is no raiding or anything to do at end game other than weapon appearance and a few dungeons.

After that...ESO? I would like to think so but highly doubt it (even though i love the TES series to death, they will murder it with this MMO)...Arche Age? possibly without all the Asian themed combat and armour/weapons but they won't change for the western version.

I do not think anyone in the west has the balls to do something like Arche Age for us, which is sad, I really think it would work.

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

Originally posted by Foomerang

Sure buddy. You keep telling yourself that ;)

The reality is that we are playing mmo versions of Playstation 2 games.

Your reality is not everybody else's reality, and even less "the" reality ;-)

As I said, I've been playing video games on various platforms for over 30 years, and comparing MMORPGs to PS2 games is just... nonsense (as in "doesn't make any sense at all").

Actually, I think WoW is a Soulcalibur clone... I mean, both have swords.

Mr. Literal has a place in the subway.

Honestly I think the comparison is that MMORPGs have stagnated at 2004.

I mean TOR's biggest claim to fame is voice acting through-out. I played PS1 games with that feature. Hell that's barely as impressive now as the first time I played NBA Jam on a Genesis and kept hearing BOOMSHAKALAKA all the time.

http://www.cellsea.com/ringtone/detail/RT4c6d8f7c9a051.htm

BOOMSHAKALAKA!

Originally posted by The_Korrigan

EvE is a Space Invaders clone because both have spaceships.

Pong clone, they both have pixels lit up on a screen.