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Diablo 3

Diablo 3 

General Discussion  » You think diablo 3 feedback was a "wake up" call of some sort?

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150 posts found
  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/14/12 10:35:47 AM#121
Originally posted by Psychow

I really question whether those that complain about thegame really like these hack-n-slash dungeon crawlers. People say thinks like "I don't like repetition" when that's what these games are! Not just D3 but Torchlight and all the other Diablo clones.

The problem is we are not hacking and slashing, we are kiting and dying and browsing the ah.

Flame on!

:)

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/14/12 3:02:50 PM#122
Originally posted by Banaghran

"These types of games", which ones, name another two which have the features we are arguing about. 

You are again escaping into generics, because a is a car does not mean it is a good car just because you think cars are good things.

The meaning of arpg or diablo clone or diablo series does not magically change once they release another game.

"Fun as it is", it could have been MORE fun, especially since the past games WERE more fun, while you got your month for 60 bucks it does not mean it is ok, for a game of a very successful series, from a very successful developer.

In essence i am saying, that in my opinion the game offers the wrong challenge the wrong way, that the problem is deeper than just tweaking some numbers as you suggest, and you can agree or disagree.

 

Well speaking to your original list of things games "don't" need:

  • Which games need mobs (monsters/elites/bosses/events/situations) which challenge the player?  Uh, just about all PVE games worth playing (Ninja Gaiden Black, Deus Ex, D2, ME3, RIFT, WOW, Legend of Grimrock, Defense grid, Civ4)
  • Which games rely on challenging the player's survivability?  Again, all PVE games worth playing challenge your survivability in various ways because if your survivability wasn't threatened then failure wouldn't be possible and there really wouldn't be a game (Ninja Gaiden Black, Deus Ex, D2, ME3, RIFT, WOW, Legend of Grimrock, Defense Grid, Civ4)
  • Which games need a progression system to be fun?  Not all PVE games, but all RPGs from my list (Deus Ex, D2, ME3, RIFT, WOW, Legend of Grimrock, Civ4)
If I pay $60 it doesn't matter who it goes to, a well-known developer or a newbie, if the game is fun for a full month it's certainly worth it.   Now obviously in the back of every player's mind (whether they realize it or not) they're keeping tabs on how long each game lasts and (assuming they build up enough association between the game and the developer name, which not every player does) they're going to judge their next game purchase decision based on how much fun they had.  So again, there's risk to Blizzard's reputation by releasing a game which didn't last years and years, but at face value the game is still better than 80-90% of what gets released.
 
Certainly with my two comments you originally replied to (both enrage timers and inferno's difficulty being good for the game) D3 would have certainly been worse off without them.
  helthros

Novice Member

Joined: 10/24/09
Posts: 1477

7/14/12 3:12:39 PM#123
Originally posted by xdemonhunter

Title kind says it all, i was a huge fan of diablo, diablo 1 was the first game i ever played online and that was around 15-16 years ago.When diablo 2 was released i also bought it and had alot of fun with it sometimes i actually reinstall it just to play around a bit.

 

I was a bit worried about buying diablo 3 given the ridiculous amount of time it took to finally be released and how unsure the release date was gonna be.That kind pushed me of buying it right away because someone had to be wrong for it to be taking that long.Im really glad i didnt buy it based on all the negative comments i saw from other gamers, i would like u to direct u all to this thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037265679?page=1       This is from blizzards own forum and majority of the users seem to agree with everything the OP said.

 

With that said what are your thoughts about the game? Do u believe all that negative feedback will cause some sort of change in the gaming development by blizzard or any other company or blizzard just made their quick buck and will keep using this bussness model?

 

Just think it's funny how you acknowledge how long it took to make the game and then you add the pithi comment of making a 'quick' buck.

 

I hope you see the irony there :)

  CujoSWAoA

Apprentice Member

Joined: 10/27/04
Posts: 1848

"Pablo Picasso said art is a lie that tells the truth."

7/14/12 3:16:26 PM#124

What the hell does Blizzard CARE about the "end game" of Diablo 3?

They don't give a crap!

All of you who bought it, bought their game! Thats it! Done!  They got their money!

  User Deleted
7/14/12 3:28:31 PM#125
Originally posted by helthros
Originally posted by xdemonhunter

Title kind says it all, i was a huge fan of diablo, diablo 1 was the first game i ever played online and that was around 15-16 years ago.When diablo 2 was released i also bought it and had alot of fun with it sometimes i actually reinstall it just to play around a bit.

 

I was a bit worried about buying diablo 3 given the ridiculous amount of time it took to finally be released and how unsure the release date was gonna be.That kind pushed me of buying it right away because someone had to be wrong for it to be taking that long.Im really glad i didnt buy it based on all the negative comments i saw from other gamers, i would like u to direct u all to this thread: http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/6037265679?page=1       This is from blizzards own forum and majority of the users seem to agree with everything the OP said.

 

With that said what are your thoughts about the game? Do u believe all that negative feedback will cause some sort of change in the gaming development by blizzard or any other company or blizzard just made their quick buck and will keep using this bussness model?

 

Just think it's funny how you acknowledge how long it took to make the game and then you add the pithi comment of making a 'quick' buck.

 

I hope you see the irony there :)

 

Yep. And if you let the credits roll and you see the countless number of people, world wide, who put their heart and soul into creating this game just to have some entitled teenager say "played it 10 minutes and uninstalled"...it just breaks my heart.

:-(

  User Deleted
7/14/12 3:29:06 PM#126
Originally posted by helthros

 

Just think it's funny how you acknowledge how long it took to make the game and then you add the pithi comment of making a 'quick' buck.

 

I hope you see the irony there :)

Just because it was in development for a long time does not mean they worked on it the entire time.  It went through several iterations.  Ideas were scrapped and newer ones were fleshed out.  It was probably put on hold a few times as well before announcing they were working on it officially.

I'd say "quick buck" isn't the correct term.  More like making money for the sake of making money.  Not being the by product of making a good product.

The state of D3 is messy and still unfinished feature wise.  Look at what was promised and what is still not implemented.  If nothing else, it shows that Blizzard may not look at D3 as an mmo,  but they produce and implement it like one.  As in, launch it now and patch in the rest later. 

In my opinion, they are one step from their next evolution.  Launching games with features later added a la carte with a cost for each.  Enforced via always online design/account flags to enable.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/14/12 7:05:02 PM#127
Originally posted by Axehilt 

Well speaking to your original list of things games "don't" need:

  • Which games need mobs (monsters/elites/bosses/events/situations) which challenge the player?  Uh, just about all PVE games worth playing (Ninja Gaiden Black, Deus Ex, D2, ME3, RIFT, WOW, Legend of Grimrock, Defense grid, Civ4)
  • Which games rely on challenging the player's survivability?  Again, all PVE games worth playing challenge your survivability in various ways because if your survivability wasn't threatened then failure wouldn't be possible and there really wouldn't be a game (Ninja Gaiden Black, Deus Ex, D2, ME3, RIFT, WOW, Legend of Grimrock, Defense Grid, Civ4)
  • Which games need a progression system to be fun?  Not all PVE games, but all RPGs from my list (Deus Ex, D2, ME3, RIFT, WOW, Legend of Grimrock, Civ4)
If I pay $60 it doesn't matter who it goes to, a well-known developer or a newbie, if the game is fun for a full month it's certainly worth it.   Now obviously in the back of every player's mind (whether they realize it or not) they're keeping tabs on how long each game lasts and (assuming they build up enough association between the game and the developer name, which not every player does) they're going to judge their next game purchase decision based on how much fun they had.  So again, there's risk to Blizzard's reputation by releasing a game which didn't last years and years, but at face value the game is still better than 80-90% of what gets released.
 
Certainly with my two comments you originally replied to (both enrage timers and inferno's difficulty being good for the game) D3 would have certainly been worse off without them.

And again you are evading into generics.

  • The question is not "which games have mobs that challenge the player", the question is "which games have mobs that challenge the player in very specific ways, being superior to the player and having a arbitrary timeout set on them", yes you correctly mention some mmos, it is a mmo system without the mmo fluff ==> much less appealing.
  • The question is not "which games rely on survivability", the question is "which games challenge the players survivability to the point that he cannot kill a enemy the way he wants and/or this survivability comes from a very restricted gear and skill system, with no way to "cheat", because it is seen as "unbalanced"".
  • The question is not "which games need progression", but "which games define progression as continuosly roadblocking the player". When did gear checks and forced decisions become a "rpg element" ?
As for the 60$, thanks for agreeing with me :)
 
Where do you get the certainty that they would be worse off? I have my example, d2, which was pretty good off without them.
 
It is quite sad that only your last sentence was to the point at hand, the rest being <random lemon> is good because it is a car and other cars have the similar features, like wheels, windows, steering wheel...
 
Flame on!
 
:)
 
 
  User Deleted
7/14/12 7:23:28 PM#128

Enrage timers are not a challenge.  They are the same as putting a count down timer on the boss to despawn/reset.  The only purpose they exist for is a gear/dps check.  They add no new dynamic to how you defeat the encounter, just the time you are allowed to do so in.

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/14/12 9:05:22 PM#129
Originally posted by Banaghran

And again you are evading into generics.

  • The question is not "which games have mobs that challenge the player", the question is "which games have mobs that challenge the player in very specific ways, being superior to the player and having a arbitrary timeout set on them", yes you correctly mention some mmos, it is a mmo system without the mmo fluff ==> much less appealing.
  • The question is not "which games rely on survivability", the question is "which games challenge the players survivability to the point that he cannot kill a enemy the way he wants and/or this survivability comes from a very restricted gear and skill system, with no way to "cheat", because it is seen as "unbalanced"".
  • The question is not "which games need progression", but "which games define progression as continuosly roadblocking the player". When did gear checks and forced decisions become a "rpg element" ?
As for the 60$, thanks for agreeing with me :)
 
Where do you get the certainty that they would be worse off? I have my example, d2, which was pretty good off without them.
 
It is quite sad that only your last sentence was to the point at hand, the rest being is good because it is a car and other cars have the similar features, like wheels, windows, steering wheel...
 
 

D3 pursued a loftier goal than typical singleplayer RPGs: longer playtime.  In order to accomplish this, it couldn't use the same old "play it once: you're done" mechanics typical SRPGs use.  So it used mechanics typically only found in MMORPGs.

Enrage timers is one new mechanic previously only found in MMORPGs like WOW.  It helps draw a hard and obvious line between mobs you're geared for and those you aren't, which is important (but inevitably not sufficient in D3's case) to prevent a game from being purely about defensive/healing builds and slowly widdling down any mob.

The same "longer playtime" goal drives survivability's importance, although in this case it's actually because mechanics like enrage aren't strong enough that survivability is a stronger playstyle than it should be, relative to the other playstyles.  Although the requirements of a baseline amount of survivability gear is simply part of the goal of creating a game with longer playtime.

And again, the same "longer playtime" goal drives progression's importance.  Instead of ending at the end of the story (as most other SRPGs do), the game tries to remain interesting longer than that.  Progresison is a big part of that.  Again, it inevitably isn't sufficient for D3, but it's clearly the goal.  Working against this goal are things like (a) the frequency with which you have to repeat the storyline and (b) the lack of randomness to playthroughs, and a lot of other little things.  But those mistakes are the failures, not the emphasis on progression.

See?  Ask specific questions: get specific answers.  Funny how that works.

D2 wasn't that great off without these elements.  In fact there was basically no reason to play any character past level 35 or so because it became a rather shallow gear grind beyond that point and your character's playstyle was essentially locked (which was both an advantage and a disadvantage, given that the rigid progression system was also the reason that I rolled a lot of alts in that game.)  

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/15/12 3:28:18 AM#130
Originally posted by Axehilt 

D3 pursued a loftier goal than typical singleplayer RPGs: longer playtime.  In order to accomplish this, it couldn't use the same old "play it once: you're done" mechanics typical SRPGs use.  So it used mechanics typically only found in MMORPGs.

Enrage timers is one new mechanic previously only found in MMORPGs like WOW.  It helps draw a hard and obvious line between mobs you're geared for and those you aren't, which is important (but inevitably not sufficient in D3's case) to prevent a game from being purely about defensive/healing builds and slowly widdling down any mob.

The same "longer playtime" goal drives survivability's importance, although in this case it's actually because mechanics like enrage aren't strong enough that survivability is a stronger playstyle than it should be, relative to the other playstyles.  Although the requirements of a baseline amount of survivability gear is simply part of the goal of creating a game with longer playtime.

And again, the same "longer playtime" goal drives progression's importance.  Instead of ending at the end of the story (as most other SRPGs do), the game tries to remain interesting longer than that.  Progresison is a big part of that.  Again, it inevitably isn't sufficient for D3, but it's clearly the goal.  Working against this goal are things like (a) the frequency with which you have to repeat the storyline and (b) the lack of randomness to playthroughs, and a lot of other little things.  But those mistakes are the failures, not the emphasis on progression.

See?  Ask specific questions: get specific answers.  Funny how that works.

D2 wasn't that great off without these elements.  In fact there was basically no reason to play any character past level 35 or so because it became a rather shallow gear grind beyond that point and your character's playstyle was essentially locked (which was both an advantage and a disadvantage, given that the rigid progression system was also the reason that I rolled a lot of alts in that game.)  

"D3 pursued a loftier goal", do you actually read what you write? Oh look, there is the 35 again, do you actually remember anything else about d2? :)

We are not discussing goals, we are discussing the way they were pursuing them, which was the cheapest and most simple possible way, road blocking. That you yourself are a developer and you see no other way to achieve longevity, and heck, you dont even SEE the longevity that was achieved in the past by different means is disappointing, but not really suprising.

I recently watched a video by kripparrian, where he talked about making a more lasting endgame, and while i applaud the effort, all he was suggesting was the old excel sheet programmers solution "lets let players grind another 5% of power, now for 400% of time", so a solution that will sell just the illusion of having something to do, but have no gameplay impact, a lazy programmers solution, just implement something that will have no impact, so we dont have to balance it.

You have all become products of the system.

Lets agree to disagree, peace out.

Flame on!

:)

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/15/12 9:50:34 AM#131
Originally posted by Banaghran

"D3 pursued a loftier goal", do you actually read what you write? Oh look, there is the 35 again, do you actually remember anything else about d2? :)

We are not discussing goals, we are discussing the way they were pursuing them, which was the cheapest and most simple possible way, road blocking. That you yourself are a developer and you see no other way to achieve longevity, and heck, you dont even SEE the longevity that was achieved in the past by different means is disappointing, but not really suprising.

Yeah, we're discussing the way they pursued a goal.

Although I don't quite understand where you feel I'm saying their way is the only way to pursue that goal.  Of course there are other ways to pursue a goal.  But when you talk about someone who used a car to get to a destination, you don't sandbag the conversation by discussing how they could've used an airplane instead -- they're at the destination, they reached the goal, what does it matter?

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/15/12 10:29:49 AM#132
Originally posted by Axehilt

Yeah, we're discussing the way they pursued a goal.

Although I don't quite understand where you feel I'm saying their way is the only way to pursue that goal.  Of course there are other ways to pursue a goal.  But when you talk about someone who used a car to get to a destination, you don't sandbag the conversation by discussing how they could've used an airplane instead -- they're at the destination, they reached the goal, what does it matter?

Well, have they reached the goal? I really think we dont even agree on that one (or the state they have arrived in :) ), see the 60$ part.

However it does not help if you dismiss the plane off the bat by saying "planes never worked", like you are dismissing d2, or most other design/challenge/game system philosophies by claiming that they were never good and successful in a history-rewriting fashion, or them being bad design together with claiming that "the game would be much worse off".

That is why i have the feeling that you take this approach the devs used (in d3 and wow) as the only valid one.

Flame on!

:)

 

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/15/12 10:33:21 AM#133

doublepost

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/15/12 11:19:36 AM#134
Originally posted by Banaghran

Well, have they reached the goal? I really think we dont even agree on that one (or the state they have arrived in :) ), see the 60$ part.

However it does not help if you dismiss the plane off the bat by saying "planes never worked", like you are dismissing d2, or most other design/challenge/game system philosophies by claiming that they were never good and successful in a history-rewriting fashion, or them being bad design together with claiming that "the game would be much worse off".

That is why i have the feeling that you take this approach the devs used (in d3 and wow) as the only valid one.

They didn't reach the goal, on account of a few specific mistakes which could be improved upon.

But instead of focusing on fixing those particular mistakes you seem to be taking the "they should just completely redesign the game to be more like D2" angle, which obviously wouldn't be a good idea in D3's current state.

That simply wasn't the route they chose.  I haven't said anything remotely like "planes never worked", I'm simply trying to explain to you that they took a car and they're not going to completely change the game at this point.

If you're on a road trip and get a flat, it's completely useless to say "fuck we should've taken a plane".  Instead you fix the flat and keep driving.  Both travel methods get you to your destination, but once you've chosen one method you stick with it and deal with the associated problems.

In this case D3 just needs to fix the flat; moaning about how they should've taken a plane doesn't help them at all.

Several pieces of D3 could be made more D2-like, and those were covered pretty well in my first post of the thread.  But you fixated on a couple rather irrelevant portions of that post of mine (enrages and hard inferno) which really aren't the game's major problems at all.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/15/12 12:29:08 PM#135
Originally posted by Axehilt

They didn't reach the goal, on account of a few specific mistakes which could be improved upon.

But instead of focusing on fixing those particular mistakes you seem to be taking the "they should just completely redesign the game to be more like D2" angle, which obviously wouldn't be a good idea in D3's current state.

That simply wasn't the route they chose.  I haven't said anything remotely like "planes never worked", I'm simply trying to explain to you that they took a car and they're not going to completely change the game at this point.

If you're on a road trip and get a flat, it's completely useless to say "fuck we should've taken a plane".  Instead you fix the flat and keep driving.  Both travel methods get you to your destination, but once you've chosen one method you stick with it and deal with the associated problems.

In this case D3 just needs to fix the flat; moaning about how they should've taken a plane doesn't help them at all.

Several pieces of D3 could be made more D2-like, and those were covered pretty well in my first post of the thread.  But you fixated on a couple rather irrelevant portions of that post of mine (enrages and hard inferno) which really aren't the game's major problems at all.

So now you change your position from  "that would not work" to "we cannot completely change the game", fair enough. (But one still has to point out your usual dismissal, the claim that "enrage timers and hard inferno are not the games main problems")

This is another thing we disagree on, i personally do not think a simple tweak here and there will help. Honestly, if they got a flat tire because they chose to drive trough the scrap yard, with the prospect to find more tire piercing pieces of metal on the way, it is their problem.

The main issues people have with the game is stupid difficulty, bland gear system and systemic annoyances (lifesteal/proc chances, unavoidable avoidable hits, story persistence, maps too small and not enough random, and so on).

They cannot change the stupid difficulty, because at this point they would alienate their hardcore audience, which is all they have left (since i am a pessimist and this wild assumption suits my argument :) ), or very close to that, discounting uber casuals.

They cannot change the gear system without complety overhauling things like the blacksmith, drop the tiered crafting mats rubbish, to really be a item sink, or something similarly complex (like, you know, giving you really wow boss guaranteed loot), in any case it would complicate the ah part of the game, which they seem to care much about. Anything less complex will just shift the overall gear level up and the player will just reach the "i have nothing to do, all the interesting gear is astronomically rare to drop and too expensive to buy" point a few days or weeks later. I want this point to be MONTHS away, is that so much to ask for?

They cannot change the annoyances because they have said they dont want to.

So quite frankly i DO prefer saying "they should have made this like d2", because in my opinion the game is too far away from something truly enjoyable.

Flame on!

:)

  Axehilt

Novice Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7213

7/15/12 3:09:15 PM#136
Originally posted by Banaghran

So now you change your position from  "that would not work" to "we cannot completely change the game", fair enough. (But one still has to point out your usual dismissal, the claim that "enrage timers and hard inferno are not the games main problems")

This is another thing we disagree on, i personally do not think a simple tweak here and there will help. Honestly, if they got a flat tire because they chose to drive trough the scrap yard, with the prospect to find more tire piercing pieces of metal on the way, it is their problem.

The main issues people have with the game is stupid difficulty, bland gear system and systemic annoyances (lifesteal/proc chances, unavoidable avoidable hits, story persistence, maps too small and not enough random, and so on).

They cannot change the stupid difficulty, because at this point they would alienate their hardcore audience, which is all they have left (since i am a pessimist and this wild assumption suits my argument :) ), or very close to that, discounting uber casuals.

They cannot change the gear system without complety overhauling things like the blacksmith, drop the tiered crafting mats rubbish, to really be a item sink, or something similarly complex (like, you know, giving you really wow boss guaranteed loot), in any case it would complicate the ah part of the game, which they seem to care much about. Anything less complex will just shift the overall gear level up and the player will just reach the "i have nothing to do, all the interesting gear is astronomically rare to drop and too expensive to buy" point a few days or weeks later. I want this point to be MONTHS away, is that so much to ask for?

They cannot change the annoyances because they have said they dont want to.

So quite frankly i DO prefer saying "they should have made this like d2", because in my opinion the game is too far away from something truly enjoyable.

Still no clue where you got the idea I've ever claimed there was only one direction D3 could go. 

Difficulty wasn't really a problem, at least not the way you describe.  Later challenge is the only thing keeping the game a game.  If it was super easy all the way through, it would've died out even faster.  Difficulty was a problem for the opposite reason: being forced to play too-easy gameplay to reach a real challenge (as my original post pointed out.)

Difficulty is something they actually could fix.  Add a slider for controlling basic mob stats (damage, hp, movement) which also ramps up rewards as it increases (+magicFind, +goldFind, +XP.)  It'd be simple and allow everyone to find the exact challenge they want.

They could absolutely improve the gear system, and I imagine that's one of the ways an expansion will take things forward. Crafting could be made viable, but it'd be a bit of work.  You wouldn't need to have things be gauranteed, just to ramp up the power of crafted items (like the current endgame recipes, except have that recipe power exist in early game too.)

Heck, an extremely simple way to make crafting viable, important, and engage players a long time would be to let players invest mats into improving existing items' affix strength.

 

  Ujirik

Novice Member

Joined: 3/27/07
Posts: 457

7/15/12 3:29:23 PM#137

Well, Diablo 3 is a pretty good game in my opinion.  I had fun playing it and would recommend it to fans of the previous, but it's not without flaws.  My primary issue with Diablo 3 is that Blizzard continues to nerf the enjoyment out of the game with every patch. 

Are people finding alternatives to Elite enemies for gear farming?  Remove them! 

Is magic find working properly and increasing drop rate?  Nerf the sucka and put cap on it! 

Is this ability making gameplay fun and fast paced?  Halve the ability and throw a 5 minute cooldown on it!

Basically, I guess they're just trying to keep it competitive and e-sport like or whatever, but it really seems like they are just driving it into the ground with every patch.

Will Diablo 3 change anything related to other games?  No, not really.  The sales were great because of the Diablo name, but the game itself was met with much criticism and the revolutionary real money auction house was met with more complaints than anything.   I'm eager to see how Torchlight 2 stands in comparison.

  Banaghran

Novice Member

Joined: 1/17/12
Posts: 872

7/15/12 4:53:13 PM#138
Originally posted by Axehilt

Still no clue where you got the idea I've ever claimed there was only one direction D3 could go. 

Difficulty wasn't really a problem, at least not the way you describe.  Later challenge is the only thing keeping the game a game.  If it was super easy all the way through, it would've died out even faster.  Difficulty was a problem for the opposite reason: being forced to play too-easy gameplay to reach a real challenge (as my original post pointed out.)

Difficulty is something they actually could fix.  Add a slider for controlling basic mob stats (damage, hp, movement) which also ramps up rewards as it increases (+magicFind, +goldFind, +XP.)  It'd be simple and allow everyone to find the exact challenge they want.

They could absolutely improve the gear system, and I imagine that's one of the ways an expansion will take things forward. Crafting could be made viable, but it'd be a bit of work.  You wouldn't need to have things be gauranteed, just to ramp up the power of crafted items (like the current endgame recipes, except have that recipe power exist in early game too.)

Heck, an extremely simple way to make crafting viable, important, and engage players a long time would be to let players invest mats into improving existing items' affix strength.

 

Dont you think that the green stuff contradicts itself? Moreover you are again evading, i didnt say the should be no challenge, and challenge is even optimizing your time and hunting items that make you kill stuff faster, not just items that ENABLE you to kill stuff, there is no need to be dense and hadle this like it is somehow binary too easy and too difficult, choose one.

Both your suggestions kinda require lots of work and lots of overhaul (noone will craft a lv 20 item with 10str and 0.5% crit rating and there is no way blizz wil take the status quo and make it medium, it will be the hard setting, killing off the last remnants of item finding), and the stat improvement specifically has the drawback, that it would tempt blizz to tamper with the chances for specific affixes as to keep the best items rare.

Way too many doctrines to balance around, due to the choice of direction.

Yes i am a pessimist.

Flame on!

:)

  Axxar

Hard Core Member

Joined: 12/09/08
Posts: 1952

"See how I reward those who fail me!"

7/15/12 4:58:33 PM#139

Given Diablo 3's massive sales we can probably expect a lot more of this stuff rather than less.

Currently playing: Divinity: Original Sin, FTL, Hearthstone and Skyrim.
Eagerly anticipating: Camelot Unchained, Elite: Dangerous, Legend of Grimrock 2 and Star Citizen.

  User Deleted
7/15/12 5:08:42 PM#140
Originally posted by Axxar

Given Diablo 3's massive sales we can probably expect a lot more of this stuff rather than less.

Indeed.  When you consider an industry that only looks at sales numbers instead of feedback and fall off trends, it's an absolute.  Especially in a down gaming market, every sale is under a spotlight.  That's why it's been said time and time again.  Vote with your wallet and wait and see.  Stop pre ordering on hype.

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