Originally posted by jondifool

Originally posted by Icewhite

Originally posted by nomatics856

Kinda worries me., that no one wants to work to get good gear.

They've been "worrying" about it since 2005.

Yep and if it still worries some , they have fore sure not grasped what GW2's hype is about.

Well, the typical WoW player (historical example) begins agitating Anet to change the game to Just Like Blizzard within a week of arrival.  In 2005, Anet didn't buy it, and most of those players ended up returning to WoW.

But we know how well the Clones have been publicly received in this industry, lately. 

Is the anti-clone sentiment actually strong enough to bridge the "game will phail, no phat lewtz"?

Ball is back across the net now, another prediction and more yakyak required.  Call in the sheepdogs, the herd is unsure which way to turn.

Tune in next month, same bat-time, same bat-channel.

Originally posted by nomatics856

[mod edit]

 I thought the problem with GW2 is that people can buy their way to the top.  Isn't that rampant capitalism?

Man, I can't keep up with the complaints anymore, I'm so confused. :(

.... more seriously, there's tons of things to work for in the game, it's just that working for these things is for fun and looks, not because it's mandatory.

Do you have something against looking better? 

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

OP, games are things people play for fun. They are not a way of life, they are not a lifestyle. Playing a game unless you are a professional that makes money off it, is not suppose to be a job. There is a reason why JOBS play money and that is because if they did not pay money, nobody would do them.

MMORPG only became jobs because companies figure out that they could use loot as a way to string you a long for 15 dollars a month. In some ways it is kinda sad that people want to pay 15 bucks a month for the honor of being treated like a rabbit. If you want a game that is like work, here is what you do:

1. Buy the google classes or any AR glasses.

2. Program it to display HP/MP of all your co workers. And whenever you get a new assignment have the AR glasses programmed to treat the assignment or project like  a quest.

3. Get paid for doing actual work .

OR

just got buy WoW and all its clones and pay them for the honor of doing busy work. LOL

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by nomatics856

[mod edit]

 I thought the problem with GW2 is that people can buy their way to the top.  Isn't that rampant capitalism?

Man, I can't keep up with the complaints anymore, I'm so confused. :(

.... more seriously, there's tons of things to work for in the game, it's just that working for these things is for fun and looks, not because it's mandatory.

Do you have something against looking better? 

So if no one works for better gear, and there is no greater gear at the end, its going to fail, UO tried this where GEAR was not IMPORTANT. That is when mages became the only PVP class and any other build was usless.

Originally posted by nomatics856

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

Originally posted by silvermember

 

OP, games are things people play for fun. They are not a way of life, they are not a lifestyle. Playing a game unless you are a professional that makes money off it, is not suppose to be a job. There is a reason why JOBS play money and that is because if they did not pay money, nobody would do them.

MMORPG only became jobs because companies figure out that they could use loot as a way to string you a long for 15 dollars a month. In some ways it is kinda sad that people want to pay 15 bucks a month for the honor of being treated like a rabbit. If you want a game that is like work, here is what you do:

1. Buy the google classes or any AR glasses.

2. Program it to display HP/MP of all your co workers. And whenever you get a new assignment have the AR glasses programmed to treat the assignment or project like  a quest.

3. Get paid for doing actual work .

OR

just got buy WoW and all its clones and pay them for the honor of doing busy work. LOL

Games are fun, but mmorpgs are supposed to be a different breed where they are fun yet there is a community sense of real life sense to an mmorpg where usually the player works harder to be greater than other players and is rewarded usually through great gear.

Originally posted by nomatics856

There is no hard to get equipment or loot, or powerful hard to get loot and every one has a easy chance of having the best gear, and dungeons dont drop rare gear.

Kinda worries me., that no one wants to work to get good gear.

GW1 was the same when it came to armor/weapons and it's worked out very well. You want different skins you do something a bit harder for them. With higher end loot having the same stats but different skins, it doesn't force those that don't like to gear grind into doing so. Those that want the cooler looks still have those goals of getting the cooler looking gear. You have a choice, I see nothing wrong with that. There are always people with epeen that feel they can't sit around and degrade others because they don't have the time to grind with a system like this, those people will have to adjust or move on.

Games without gear grind are fun and can be successful. UO and DAOC back in the day had no gear grind and were successful for thier time. Glad we have a game in 2012 that's like they were with gear.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by Meowhead

Originally posted by nomatics856

[mod edit]

 I thought the problem with GW2 is that people can buy their way to the top.  Isn't that rampant capitalism?

Man, I can't keep up with the complaints anymore, I'm so confused. :(

.... more seriously, there's tons of things to work for in the game, it's just that working for these things is for fun and looks, not because it's mandatory.

Do you have something against looking better? 

So if no one works for better gear, and there is no greater gear at the end, its going to fail, UO tried this where GEAR was not IMPORTANT. That is when mages became the only PVP class and any other build was usless.

I would stop guys, if you want to continue fine by me but keep it in pm's or mmorpg will most undoubtedly close this thread. just saying :-)

Originally posted by nomatics856

So if no one works for better gear, and there is no greater gear at the end, its going to fail, UO tried this where GEAR was not IMPORTANT. That is when mages became the only PVP class and any other build was usless.

 What?  Are you underestimating the power of LOOKING GOOD again?  Man, people paid =25= dollars for sparkle ponies in WoW.  Blizzard literally just rolled around in the money, giggling and squealing.

Do not underestimate how many people will work ridiculously hard just so they can shoot rainbows out of their bow.

Of course there's better gear at the end.  It just happens to be better in =awesomeness=, not better as in 'Well, now I have this gear so I'm better than other players'.

That sort of stuff leads to really shitty imbalanced PvP and keeps something about as physically far away from the concept of an eSport as possible.

Also, if everybody is being mages, that would be because the game is imbalanced, and has nothing to do with gear.  I'm not even sure how you're drawing a correlation between the two.

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

False. It worked in GW1.

Besides that, UO, a game released in '97 doesn't prove anything. And gear would not change the situation you are describing. 

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

False. It worked in GW1.

It worked with DAOC too.

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

False. It worked in GW1.

It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

Originally posted by nomatics856

It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

I thought this was a discussion about GW2 not having a gear grind and how it will or will not work? Now you're talking about something completely different since you can't win the original argument, others have given you examples of games where GW2 method for gear does work.

[mod edit]

The point of gear in GW2 is to remove a large portion of the annoyances you face at end-game with other MMOs. The annoyances that punish you when real life takes over your free time for an extended time. The annoyances of playing at a pace others would eclipse in no time in a gear-treadmill situation. The annoyances of having some DBag Top ranked gladiator in full on dragonfire-crapping epic PvP armor running around lowbie zones and killing everything 'just because he can' with no way to fight back because "His gear is just too darn strong Cap'tin!".

Of course, the latter is a bit of an exaggeration (and technically untrue, seeing as any "open world" PvP of the sort would occur in the WvW battles, but general idea still applies).

The idea is to give players a general bar which is reasonably easy to reach by playing however you like. Players then refine and shift themselves around that bar to fit the playing style of their class. Someone with a precision-heavy playstyle will obviously want precision-heavy armor, but at the level cap they will be just fine even with armor that isn't exactly focused on it. The rest is just finding and crafting a look for your character.

Which is exactly how Guild Wars 1 plays. Heck, even without all the optimizing gear and stats and the like, my character still hits dang hard with his scythe/pole (using Winds of Change weapon), and my heroes nuke plenty hard (and hold their own easily).

Originally posted by nomatics856

It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

There's your problem. You think that balancing is perfect in games with a gear grind. You're wrong about that.

Originally posted by nomatics856

Originally posted by colddog04

Originally posted by nomatics856

Every one wants healthcare, every one wants money, every one wants to be the best, every one wants great gear, every one wants free this free that, and no one wants to work hard for it any more.

Actually, in the case of GW2, everyone wants to be the best based on skill, not gear. Everyone gets great stats, but not everyone gets great gear. And people are willing to "work hard" to get the best looking gear.

If you want to be best through skill only, play a FPS? It does not work in mmorpgs, it never has. UO proved this. In the end all melee classes will get the short end of the stick. Thats why most melee have to now end up using range and that is why gaurdians currently suck in PVP.

Just because you played a guardian and got your butt kicked, does not mean guardians suck.

Have a ranged weapon, and a melee weapon. Ranged weapon for when you're at ranged, and melee weapon (which does far more damage) at close range. All classes can do this, even guardians.

There was a running joke among a top PVP guild, Team Legacy, that "if we saw a guardian defending a point, we just kept going". There are a number of videos out no where guardians can defend points indefinitely, even against 3 v 1.

Their strength is not damage, but you seem to be under the impression that they should do as much damage as everyone else? But maybe I am interpreting wrong. Because they really did not suck at what they are meant to excel at.

Originally posted by nomatics856

It did not. Melee still got the crappier end of the stick in GW1. 55 monks dominated PVP and were basically unkillable because of "skill". In a case like this game of skill vs itemization, range and spellcasters will always dominate melee always.

 Wait... what?  55 monk is a farming build, not a PvP dominating build.  Have you even LOOKED at the meta for PvP builds?  There's generally so many warriors it feels more like Warrior Wars rather than Guild Wars.  I'm pretty sure there's a whole bunch of mages who WISH what you said was true, after being slapped silly with various hammer builds...

Originally posted by nomatics856

There is no hard to get equipment or loot, or powerful hard to get loot and every one has a easy chance of having the best gear, and dungeons dont drop rare gear.

Kinda worries me., that no one wants to work to get good gear.

perhaps there needs to be a paradigm shift on your part.

Guild Wars was never about "great gear". That was the beauty of it. People could get what they needed and the rest was up to their own skill.

So the shift is "less on gear and more about concnetrating on what you want to achieve".

That is where the effort will go.

As far as your comment on "it never worked in an mmo", I think the chasing of "loot" is one of the worst things to ever happen in an mmo. I'd rather chase achievements such as beating my enemy, taking down a hard encounter or personal goals.

Guild Wars was successful regardless of the fact that there was no need to chase loot. I think GW2 will have no problems in this area.