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Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn

Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn 

General Discussion  » We looked to World of Warcraft.

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95 posts found
  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/13/12 11:37:12 PM#41
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

 

Lots of games release in a broken, beta-like state that aren't universally panned by gamers and critics alike.

Getting good game reviews doesn't help at all. Age of Conan got 9s out of 10s, yet two of Funcom's publishers went bankrupt following that disaster launch, and Funcom halved their staff and merged most of the servers within months.

 

Copying WoW might make your game more approachable, but it doesn't make it better.

  Valua

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 521

7/13/12 11:41:37 PM#42
Originally posted by GreenishBlue

catering to the WoW drones? not surprised

 

Don't blame them. We're awesome. We're the most stable and hardcore MMO players there are. 

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/13/12 11:44:17 PM#43
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by GreenishBlue

catering to the WoW drones? not surprised

 

Don't blame them. We're awesome. We're the most stable and hardcore MMO players there are. 

Hardcore MMO players don't play a game as casual as WoW. And no, they aren't stable, there's just a constant stream of players. Retention rate is super low.

  Valua

Apprentice Member

Joined: 8/08/11
Posts: 521

7/14/12 12:30:40 AM#44
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by GreenishBlue

catering to the WoW drones? not surprised

 

Don't blame them. We're awesome. We're the most stable and hardcore MMO players there are. 

Hardcore MMO players don't play a game as casual as WoW. And no, they aren't stable, there's just a constant stream of players. Retention rate is super low.

 

Got any proof of this? My proof is in game first hand experience. And yes, you can play a casual game hardcore. Also, there are parts of WoW that are made for the hardcore, raids and rated PvP. So yeah, my point still stands.

 

Edit; Clearly you are wrong. Most new players don't stay beyond the free trial (they don't count as subscribers.) therefore that means that WoW players are very stable, which is a good thing. No wonder MMO designers copy WoW, they don't want their game to be like most others where no one sticks around for long.

 

Source - http://kotaku.com/5469238/most-new-world-of-warcraft-players-dont-go-past-level-10

 

There are also many other reports like this, so it's probably true.

  warmaster670

Novice Member

Joined: 1/04/08
Posts: 1441

7/14/12 12:34:39 AM#45
Originally posted by Belarion



I was just wondering what you all thought about that information brought forth in this article about SE's new focus on making FF14 as much like WoW as possible.

 

reading comprehension fail, no wehre in this quote "
"Yoshida and team want those familiar with World of Warcraft to be able to transition into Final Fantasy XIV without a lot of hassle."" does it say their making it as much like WoW as possible.

 

Same with the article, no where in it do they say anything about making it as much like wow as possible, all they talk about is how they looked at wows UI to make their own UI not suck, man people will go rabib as soon as they hear WoW, doesnt even matter what its about, because as we all know every single thing thats in wow is garbage and should never be in any game in teh histroy of the world.

Originally posted by Istavaan

why would i care to sub to a square enix game when they clearly don't care for their current faithful subscribers.

Rofl, this info is based on what? the one quote you read out of context? yup they sure dont care about any of their current players, thats why they just shut down the game after it came out instead of making it free for a while, and pumping money into the game to make it not suck, oh wait, thats exactly what they did, yup sure sounds like they dont care.

Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.

  Soltek

Novice Member

Joined: 8/01/10
Posts: 22

7/14/12 12:42:22 AM#46
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

 

Lots of games release in a broken, beta-like state that aren't universally panned by gamers and critics alike.

Getting good game reviews doesn't help at all. Age of Conan got 9s out of 10s, yet two of Funcom's publishers went bankrupt following that disaster launch, and Funcom halved their staff and merged most of the servers within months.

 

Copying WoW might make your game more approachable, but it doesn't make it better.

 

I thought this thread was about the User Interface, not content or game play.

Had FFXIV did what WoW did, and launched with a already popular UI that was improved upon and ran smooth, I'm sure things would have been a lot different.

A good example would be EQ2, which launched about the same time as WoW. Both had similar UI's but WoW's ran much smoother while EQ2's was even clunkier then EQ1's. Even tho EQ2 was a much more in depth game, with a lot more content, more gamers preferred the more bug free polished UI of WoW. If developers can learn anything from WoW it would be that having a smooth launch and popular UI is just as important as the content.

So I guess I agree that you cannot ignore WoW, it not only has the largest player base but it also has the largest hater base. Figure out why that is and that's two vary large groups of people you could try to reach just from studying one game.  

  

 

  Weretigar

Novice Member

Joined: 10/15/10
Posts: 626

If you watch a game, it’s fun. If you play it, it’s recreation. If you work at it, it’s FF-XIV.

7/14/12 12:51:17 AM#47

 

@Oph8        : IT's common practice to copy other games in the mmo industry right now, and taboo to act like its a bad thing on mmorpg.com.you would have to increase the combat speed 1 million percent to make it able to compete with better mmo's.
@ZizouX      :If Yoshi got it, the tales series games wouldn't have outsold FF games since FF10 came out. Hes been on the board sence they took away free flight and controled vehicles. 
@Deathofsage :since FF11 did things so right FF14 should feel right at home all the same classes, Green vs Red vs Blue, Still slower then runescape battles.
@tollbooth   : even thou i agree that mmo's should be plaid in parties, often people get tired of running with ninjas, the guy that has to fight every single monster for 0 reason, the 100 boses per party trieng to act like they can play the game better then everyone. Sometimes you just want to relax by yourself. Also your paying so shouldn't you be able to?
@Garvon3     :Agreed making a game like WoW only lowers retention rate. The been there done that rate of quiting is very high with reasons for leaving.
@Valua       : I'll be sure to share what you said with all the runescape players. It'll be nice for them to know that they are all super hardcore.
  SuperXero89

Novice Member

Joined: 8/16/09
Posts: 2609

7/14/12 1:00:25 AM#48
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

 

Lots of games release in a broken, beta-like state that aren't universally panned by gamers and critics alike.

Getting good game reviews doesn't help at all. Age of Conan got 9s out of 10s, yet two of Funcom's publishers went bankrupt following that disaster launch, and Funcom halved their staff and merged most of the servers within months.

 

Copying WoW might make your game more approachable, but it doesn't make it better.

Who said anything about copying WoW?  You people are so damn paranoid.  WoW changed the industry in 2004.  It was stupid of SquareEnix to not even so much as take a look at what was universally liked about that game.  This is why FFXIV currently plays like a bad parody of pre-WoW MMOs.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/14/12 10:31:07 AM#49
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by Valua
Originally posted by GreenishBlue

catering to the WoW drones? not surprised

 

Don't blame them. We're awesome. We're the most stable and hardcore MMO players there are. 

Hardcore MMO players don't play a game as casual as WoW. And no, they aren't stable, there's just a constant stream of players. Retention rate is super low.

 

Got any proof of this? My proof is in game first hand experience. And yes, you can play a casual game hardcore. Also, there are parts of WoW that are made for the hardcore, raids

 

 

Raids in WoW are extremely casual compared to the MMO market.

  Garvon3

Novice Member

Joined: 3/17/10
Posts: 2943

7/14/12 10:32:09 AM#50
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

 

Lots of games release in a broken, beta-like state that aren't universally panned by gamers and critics alike.

Getting good game reviews doesn't help at all. Age of Conan got 9s out of 10s, yet two of Funcom's publishers went bankrupt following that disaster launch, and Funcom halved their staff and merged most of the servers within months.

 

Copying WoW might make your game more approachable, but it doesn't make it better.

Who said anything about copying WoW?  You people are so damn paranoid.  WoW changed the industry in 2004.  It was stupid of SquareEnix to not even so much as take a look at what was universally liked about that game.  This is why FFXIV currently plays like a bad parody of pre-WoW MMOs.

It was brilliant of them to ignore it, it's the only thing that makes their game stand out. They should continue ignoring it. You can make a good game without being anything like the current "best game on the market". Every pre WoW MMO found subscribers without copying anyone else.

  ZizouX

Hard Core Member

Joined: 5/17/11
Posts: 666

7/14/12 12:56:24 PM#51

I dont' know how many people on these forums actually play FFXIV currently, or like me, have played for close to a year now.

 

There is an overwhelming majority of FFXIV players who love Yoshi-P.   THey realize that Tanaka placed such a horrible foundation to work with that it's a small miracle what Yoshi has been able to do with the poor ui and engine.  Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda are fun fights.  Aurum Vale, Cutter's Cry and Darkhold were fun when they were released.  

 

People, imo, generally feel that 2.0 is giving Yoshi-P a clean slate.  They think, what would FFXIV have been if Yoshi was leading it from the beginning.  2.0 is that chance, and based on what he's done to turn around a sinking ship in the meantime, makes people very excited about the prospects of FFXIV 2.0 in the future.

 

When Yoshi-P announced that the UI will be similar to WoW and AS RESPONSIVE.  I did a virtual backflip with excitement.   A lot of people just want Final Fantasy universe and feel with a modern UI and responsiveness.  

 

If all Yoshi-P does in 2.0 is provide the same type of content he's introduced the passed year while making the game smooth and accessible, you'll see this game reach a very healthy population.

 

A lot of you are also underestimating the value of a PS3 release.  I know at least a dozen people who can't afford a PC to run this game and just want it released on PS3 asap.  Japan also prefers to play their mmo's, especially Final Fantasy', on consoles.

 

I think that the majority of the naysayers on this forum are people who havn't picked up FFXIV since it launched two years ago.  Those of us who have persisted, are really impressed with Yoshi-P and we have no reason to think 2.0 won't be as great as we anticipate.

 

Edit: Look for a "flood of information" on this site http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/ middle of August.

  Dragonantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 970

7/14/12 1:03:08 PM#52

Nooooooo say it aint soooooooo!!!

This is a dagger though my Final Fantasy heart!

  Mrlogic

Novice Member

Joined: 6/06/08
Posts: 191

7/14/12 1:10:14 PM#53

The whole idea of making transitioning easy for WoW players (to whatever other game you have) sickens me. Just get in there, start a new learning curve, read up & explore.  

  User Deleted
7/14/12 1:16:35 PM#54

Yes and no. Personally I never liked the turn based combat, there's a place for that and that's in older SRPG games not in mmos. For example, the most recent videos of gameplay i've seen of combat in this game was where it literally took 10 abilities to prepare for battle before each fight and then it too three things to do each attack all while waiting for unecessary and dated timers. This to me is either one of those ploys to keep people online for as long as humanly possible (much like giving mobs resistances in LOTRO when they tried that for a time to make simple mobs harder so that fights were incredibly hard outside of dungeons while it was subscription only) or someone while trying to make the game more nostalgic went too far.

I think they would benefit in gaining the combat style which shouldn't be too difficult of a conversion since they already have a single target button mashing thing going, if they really wanted fantastic combat tho and they were serious about making their game the best it could be they should emulate the combat from GW2 or Neverwinter at the very least, making it more action based is always better. We've all seen too many button mashers.

 

  Gravarg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 8/24/06
Posts: 3158

7/14/12 1:20:15 PM#55

They should've stuck with FFXI's formula.  I always thought it was going to be FFXI-2.  The races look the same, art is the same, just different job system and land.  I liked the slow pace of FFXI, but I'm just 1 in millions.

  Belarion

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/10
Posts: 601

hello

 
OP  7/14/12 2:28:44 PM#56
Originally posted by itgrowls

Yes and no. Personally I never liked the turn based combat, there's a place for that and that's in older SRPG games not in mmos. For example, the most recent videos of gameplay i've seen of combat in this game was where it literally took 10 abilities to prepare for battle before each fight and then it too three things to do each attack all while waiting for unecessary and dated timers. This to me is either one of those ploys to keep people online for as long as humanly possible (much like giving mobs resistances in LOTRO when they tried that for a time to make simple mobs harder so that fights were incredibly hard outside of dungeons while it was subscription only) or someone while trying to make the game more nostalgic went too far.

I think they would benefit in gaining the combat style which shouldn't be too difficult of a conversion since they already have a single target button mashing thing going, if they really wanted fantastic combat tho and they were serious about making their game the best it could be they should emulate the combat from GW2 or Neverwinter at the very least, making it more action based is always better. We've all seen too many button mashers.

 

Guess what? You are mashing buttons no matter what video game you play. God people are dense as bricks, I swear.

 

In FF11 the combat was slow and such to actually allow for players to utilize a variety of interesting spells and skills before, during and after battle. It made the combat very fun for some people. Just because you would rather convince yourself that some other way of doing combat is more "skillful" (this is MMOs we are talking about... but you go ahead and believe you have epeen skillz) does not mean that other ways of playing are not appreciated by different people. Nor does it mean that time based, strategic battles are outdated. It could very well be a sign of changing tastes in video game players... but changing tastes does not equal better tastes.

 

So get off your high horse.

 

BRAH!

 

I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.

  Belarion

Novice Member

Joined: 8/28/10
Posts: 601

hello

 
OP  7/14/12 2:40:38 PM#57
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

100% agree.

 

I love how they throw Tanaka under a bus, or onto his own sword... and then say "Sorry, we will work to make the game more western like WoW". Honestly? You think that was the problem? For real?

 

SE released an aborted fetus of a game. Almost every single aspect of the game was interesting in some way but broken and flawed in another. The problems spoke, not of a lack of vision, but lack of effort and time to iron the problems out. And sub contracting Chinese programmers... wow SE...wow.

 

 

 

I love snails.
I love every kinda snail.
I just want to hug them all, but I cant.
Cant hug every snail.

  Br3akingDawn

Advanced Member

Joined: 2/01/11
Posts: 1317

7/14/12 2:56:49 PM#58
Originally posted by Gravarg

They should've stuck with FFXI's formula.  I always thought it was going to be FFXI-2.  The races look the same, art is the same, just different job system and land.  I liked the slow pace of FFXI, but I'm just 1 in millions.

its 2 in millions now. I loved FFXI formula, even death. I ended up playing for 5-6yrs from launch. But sadly the world just got outdated, especially with other mmos looking more and more flashy. I must move on. If FF14 was the same o thing with just updated graphics... I will be back in a heartbeat.

  Miyuukun

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/14/12
Posts: 8

Right...

7/14/12 6:21:43 PM#59
Originally posted by Belarion
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by SuperXero89

Ignoring WoW is one of the largest reason FFXIV is in the mess it's in right now.  This can only improve the game.

Ignoring WoW was the best thing the game ever did. Releasing broken is what caused the issue.

100% agree.

 

I love how they throw Tanaka under a bus, or onto his own sword... and then say "Sorry, we will work to make the game more western like WoW". Honestly? You think that was the problem? For real?

 

SE released an aborted fetus of a game. Almost every single aspect of the game was interesting in some way but broken and flawed in another. The problems spoke, not of a lack of vision, but lack of effort and time to iron the problems out. And sub contracting Chinese programmers... wow SE...wow.

 

 

 

 

My fellow FFXIV beta testers and myself all warned them too.  This product is not ready.  We told them these problems weren't simiply bugs that you could easily iron out with a simple patch or two.  Did SE realize this?  No, and they pushed a product out the door which screams red-headed step-child.  And they've paid/are paying the price for it.  They've missed out on subscription fee's for over a year now, not to mention the people who simply put the game down entirely for a time.

 

Honestly, I'm impressed they're still working at it.  I see and anticipate what version 2.0 is going to be for this game and it's exciting. 

 

Tabula Rasa....

  Amsai

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/16/11
Posts: 69

7/14/12 8:12:48 PM#60
Originally posted by ZizouX

I dont' know how many people on these forums actually play FFXIV currently, or like me, have played for close to a year now.

 

There is an overwhelming majority of FFXIV players who love Yoshi-P.   THey realize that Tanaka placed such a horrible foundation to work with that it's a small miracle what Yoshi has been able to do with the poor ui and engine.  Ifrit, Moogle and Garuda are fun fights.  Aurum Vale, Cutter's Cry and Darkhold were fun when they were released.  

 

People, imo, generally feel that 2.0 is giving Yoshi-P a clean slate.  They think, what would FFXIV have been if Yoshi was leading it from the beginning.  2.0 is that chance, and based on what he's done to turn around a sinking ship in the meantime, makes people very excited about the prospects of FFXIV 2.0 in the future.

 

When Yoshi-P announced that the UI will be similar to WoW and AS RESPONSIVE.  I did a virtual backflip with excitement.   A lot of people just want Final Fantasy universe and feel with a modern UI and responsiveness.  

 

If all Yoshi-P does in 2.0 is provide the same type of content he's introduced the passed year while making the game smooth and accessible, you'll see this game reach a very healthy population.

 

A lot of you are also underestimating the value of a PS3 release.  I know at least a dozen people who can't afford a PC to run this game and just want it released on PS3 asap.  Japan also prefers to play their mmo's, especially Final Fantasy', on consoles.

 

I think that the majority of the naysayers on this forum are people who havn't picked up FFXIV since it launched two years ago.  Those of us who have persisted, are really impressed with Yoshi-P and we have no reason to think 2.0 won't be as great as we anticipate.

 

Edit: Look for a "flood of information" on this site http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/ middle of August.

I will almost agree with you. The normal content is pretty good. The EG content is a bit over the top, and is way too difficult which will drive away casuals. No one likes to be punished for not being Harcore. Thats why my brothers and a couple of my friends quit. They stuck with it for a long time, but when they realized there was a pattern of extremely punishing EG content, they all quit (i.e. extremely low drop rates, and just brutally hard EG).

FFXIV EG content takes extreme skill and knowledge of your class (if you have a class leveled, but its not one you play a lot you will probably wipe your party), good gear (because aside from whatever else the devs put in the Boss mechanics to fuck you up, you will still likely have to deal with a DPS race against the clock, regeneration, or powerfl abilities that can 1 shot even a tank), and Knowledge of the layout/strategy (which sounds simple on paper, but knowing what to do and actually doing it are 2 different things, the biggest problem is the learning curve per event: too many phases, and too much precision needed).

Think I'm exagerating? When AV first came out, it took my LS about 3 weeks before we even got a win, and about 5 weeks before we saw our first Darklight armor drop. On the other hand, I also play Tera, SWTOR, and Rift, and you always get some drops, and its never taken my group more than 2 times to beat anything. Yoshi  said they are supposed to increase drop rates and offer difficulty settings for 2.0. If these things are implemented well, then there is no problem. If not, then they are totally going to drive off casuals players.

Another thing that bothers me is the lack of class balance on melee vs ranged. I really hope SE gets it right for 2.0, because so far it seems like they dont know how too. In a lot of Boss fights, aside from the tank, its suicide to come as a melee (unless you dont have any lag/ui issues and are a godly player that knows exactly what to do. There is a midboss in the game that can 1 shot all the melees with an AoE attack anytime he wants (read: no pattern). For this reason, you will find most people want you as a mage or archer/bard (if you arent the tank) for most EG.

Dont get me wrong I like the game a lot, and if I seem critical, its because I am not a blind fan boy that thinks everything  SE shits is gold. 2.0 is there 2nd chance, and this is the last chanc they will get. They pretty much have to get it perfect........ no pressure. I have a lot of hope for this game, but if 2.0 isnt enough they might be in trouble. They need a certain amount of subs to re-coup, i dont know what that number is but not reaching it is not an option I dont think.

@ Itgrowls: No, just no. Some of us like our turn-based like strategy driven MMO. FFXIV feels like chess. GW2 feels like an unstructured keyboard slamming zergfest. Sorry I need something more structured and strategic, I also cant stand a lack of really defined roles. I want classes to be about the trinity, not a flavor option.

*Though my brothers seem to like GW2.............. go figure.

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