Originally posted by Bladestrom
Helthros read through you own replies again you arguement against lateral progression is eve?! Eve is a lateral model, there is no 1 single top tier that = end of game. You cannot blow through the content In eve because there is no end point. It is the same for gw2, there is no end game tier. Re skills, think about eve skills.

I didn't say it was EVE. I just don't agree with you that EVE is lateral because it's not. You're telling me you're still going to do level 1 missions once you've been doing 2 or 3? You're telling me you can hop right into a lvl 4 mission solo? You're telling me you're going to do 1/10 or 2/10 after you can solo 10/10? Will you go back to doing the smaller anomolies once you start doing havens or sanctums?

So instead of a gear treadmill, GW2 has a skill points treadmill? You're honestly going with that as being an improvement over chasing gear?

EVE is a sandbox game and it doesn't even really have PvE outside of incursions and complexes. I don't even know why you're using EVE as an example for anything in this arguement here since this conversation is almost entirely about themepark PvE gameplay. I mentioned EVE to simply state the kind of games that I like and you took it to this lateral progression BS.

Point of the matter is: If there's nothing to stop people from progressing through the content, they will chew through it in a matter of days. Then you're left with a boatload of upset customers that will drop the game on the turn of a dime.

Originally posted by Bladestrom
Repeating the same bossss for months on end can be ok, but wouldn't it be better to have lot of other content to do at the same time?

You don't think they could release all the bosses at the same time? They'll chew through the bosses in weeks or days even, then what?

It's unrealistic to think that programmers can crank out enough content to satisfy the insatiable thirst gamers have for PvE content without some sort of limitations.

If you wouldn't do content except for the in-game rewards, then you don't like the content, and shouldn't do it even with the in-game rewards.  After all, if you don't like the content, then you fundamentally dislike the game.  What good does it do you to get rewards that don't exist outside of a game you dislike?

Originally posted by BrainDeadG

A neat trick would have the dungeons differ each time a player goes inside. That way it's not the same instance they just completed 15 minutes or so ago.

I have said a random dungeon generation system would be cool! Perhaps on an island a wacked out wizard lives in a cave or a tower and it changes each time you enter it. /shrug

---

Originally posted by GosuRusha510
What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?

---

I don't know. I haven't played the game yet.

However the idea of an alternative to a gear grind is fine with me. I don't mind grinding gear so much, as long as I can find a few people that I enjoy playing with .. but i'm also not opposed to there being something else, instead of a gear grind.

Will it have enough to justify not having a gear grind? I sincerely hope so, but I also highly doubt it.

Vanilla wow was the first real grinding I did. I played UO and EQ, but not enough to really do any raiding. That being said the problem with newWoW and every other game that has tried to copy it, is that they continue to make things like the gear grind trivial, but don't replace the time you spent grinding that gear with anything. SWTOR is the prime example of it. 1-2 months of content != subscription based MMO.

I dont know why people hate gear grinding. Tiered instances provide a goal for the group to work together towards. Guess the solo mentality has completely eclipsed the genre at this point. These games put me to sleep after 20 minutes now. Nothing meaningful to work towards. No reason to care after the OooOoH Shiny New Game syndrome has died.

---

Originally posted by xenogias

---

Originally posted by GosuRusha510

---

Originally posted by terrant

---

Originally posted by GosuRusha510 So your telling I can take my lvl 1 gear to 80 and not change a thing? How does that make sense? Enlighten me please.

---

OK, lemme try to clear some things up for you.   1) You can go to any zone or dungeon your level or lower and gain meaningful xp, gold, and loot. That means you can go help a friend roll a new toon, explore zone starter zone you've never been to before, get exploration achievements...and still get something meaningful out of it.  2) While gear doesn't OWN the game like in WoW, starts do still mean something. You won't take the same gear with you from 1-80. But if you find designs you like you CAN transmute them, similar to how wow does it. The main reason to run dungeons, especially at max level, is to obtain these special designed cosmetic armors for transmuting. 3) Even after cap you raise xp. When you would "level" (e.g. when you would in theory hit 81), your bar resets, and you gain a skill point. These can be used to buy skills, or to fund other cool things like help making very very rare pieces of gear (again, mostly cosmetic, not for stats). So even getting xp matters at max level.   Did that help any?

---

ahhhh gotcha, ok that made more sense,  Thanks all!

---

Well put. And I would also like to say its refreshing to see someone ask this question and actually be looking for a real awnser instead of trolling.

---

Haha, yeah it's like the reverse troll, polite and sans contrariness; Good show.

Originally posted by helthros

So instead of a gear treadmill, GW2 has a skill points treadmill? You're honestly going with that as being an improvement over chasing gear?

 

Point of the matter is: If there's nothing to stop people from progressing through the content, they will chew through it in a matter of days. Then you're left with a boatload of upset customers that will drop the game on the turn of a dime.

 As a matter of fact, yes.  I will go with that as being an improvement, for some people's tastes.  Some people want to always be more powerful, and be rewarded by being more powerful than people who can't sink literally months of their time into a game...

... I don't HAVE that sort of time, so I'd rather have access to all sorts of content at any given point in time... be able to hop in when an expansion comes in, not worry about gearing up to be able to play with people...

... and people who play a metric shitton and trade in their skill points for weapons, well, they can look cooler and at least have a visual representation of their time spent.

Or you could just make the content difficult and require practice.  People don't blow through chess in a couple days (Well, okay, I know about castling now, I guess I'mt otally done with this game) and then all leave.... well, some do, but hey.  Different people have different tastes and desires.  I understand your tastes are different from mine, the part I'm confused on is the part where you're apparently incapable of understanding my tastes are different from yours.  Do you think I, and other people like me, think exactly like you, and we're acting otherwise just to SPITE you?

Some people want gear treadmill, some people don't.  It's not anything complicated or confusing.

You talk about people quitting because they burn through the content (Even though there's tons of cosmetic content and titles and the like for people to chase)... well, there's lots of people who quit MMORPGs because the gear treadmill is disgusting to them.  No matter what design decision you choose to chase, there are going to be people who don't like it.  'Some people will quit because of this' is not really a very useful comment.  There's some people who quit playing FPSs because first person view makes them motion sick.  Does that mean all FPSs should switch and be third person instead? :T

Originally posted by azmundai

 

---

Originally posted by GosuRusha510
What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?

---

 

I don't know. I haven't played the game yet.

However the idea of an alternative to a gear grind is fine with me. I don't mind grinding gear so much, as long as I can find a few people that I enjoy playing with .. but i'm also not opposed to there being something else, instead of a gear grind.

Will it have enough to justify not having a gear grind? I sincerely hope so, but I also highly doubt it.

Vanilla wow was the first real grinding I did. I played UO and EQ, but not enough to really do any raiding. That being said the problem with newWoW and every other game that has tried to copy it, is that they continue to make things like the gear grind trivial, but don't replace the time you spent grinding that gear with anything. SWTOR is the prime example of it. 1-2 months of content != subscription based MMO.

I dont know why people hate gear grinding. Tiered instances provide a goal for the group to work together towards. Guess the solo mentality has completely eclipsed the genre at this point. These games put me to sleep after 20 minutes now. Nothing meaningful to work towards. No reason to care after the OooOoH Shiny New Game syndrome has died.

Worked great in GW1.

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by Bladestrom
Repeating the same bossss for months on end can be ok, but wouldn't it be better to have lot of other content to do at the same time?

You don't think they could release all the bosses at the same time? They'll chew through the bosses in weeks or days even, then what?

It's unrealistic to think that programmers can crank out enough content to satisfy the insatiable thirst gamers have for PvE content without some sort of limitations.

I don't normally say this, but this is probably not the game for you, and you should probably not play it. This is a very difficult thing to explain, and no matter how many people manage to do so, people still don't seem to understand. So, I'll try one more time.

GW2 is not about a treadmill, or a grind, period. Can you play it that way? Absolutely; but the game is not designed around it. And that is a key difference. Most MMOs are.

Think about this for a minute. You can, essentially, grind or power through any form of content. However people generally don't do this for all forms of media. You could speed through most MMOs, without feeling like you've missed much, true. But could you say the same about speeding through a game like zelda, or uncharted, or mass effect? You could speed through reading a book. However you are probably going to skim over a lot of details that may be important. The reason being that these other games and media generally have multiple layers of content and detail on which to experience.

Can you play this game like every other MMO that you're supposedly sick of, and grind boss after boss? Yes, yes you can. However the assumption here is that you have to, and you don't. There is way more to this game than boss farming. If you choose to ignore all that, then fine, but it's not the game's doing.

So what is 'endgame' for this game? I know most people think of this as a 'buzz word', but it really is 'the game'. Once you hit max lvl (80), the entire game is opened up to you. You are free to experience every part of the game, regardless of lvl. You also are rewarded for all content, in a manner that scales up to your current lvl.

- If you only care about getting the coolest looking armor and gear. Yes, you will be running dungeons. This doesn't give you any advantage, but it will make your character stand out from other characters. Especially if you start mix & matching pieces of armor from different sets.

- If you want to explore, there is quite a massive world in which to do this in. You can uncover hidden treasures, puzzles, map completions, dynamic events, etc.

- If you want to craft, you can search for the rarer materials, and experiment with them to see what new recipes you can unlock

- If you want to play mini-games, theres tons of these scattered around the world

- If you want to PvP, you have sPvP and WvW to partake in

- You have meta events to experience / trigger. Large open world bosses.

- If you like lore. There are a lot of hidden lore pieces all around the world. People to talk to, places to discover, etc.

Point being is you have a lot of options. Far more than most MMOs. If you choose to ignore all the options to focus on just 1, then again, that's not really the game's fault. That's how you personally are choosing to view it.

People will burn through the content of this game, I have no doubt about that. People always do. However it's going to take a lot longer with this one than with other games. It took people about a month to burn through TOR, and about a week to burn through TSW. This game has more content than both combined. Not to mention, a lot of the content in this game changes quite a bit. You're first experience with an event can be dramatically different from the 2nd time you experience it, depending on a list of different factors. And on top of this, Anet will be cycling out events and swapping in new ones throughout the game's lifespan.

Originally posted by GosuRusha510

What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?

gear dont suposed to be matter ,it give advantage to other and having advantage is not the point of a susessfull game other than balance,in mi opinion some 1 dont suposed to be betetr than me  just cause they dont have  a job and sped 16 hour straigh playing .

gw2 change that and its the way game suposed to be Fun ,balance and no subs ,why pay to have fun and play agame righ?.

Uh, it's a game. You're supposed to enjoy it. If you don't enjoy it, you should probably play a different game. If you don't enjoy any game, you should probably find a different leisure pastime.

Gear matters while youre leveling from 1 - 80, but once you reach 80 the power level of gear platues.

So if Gear Power, rather than Aesthetics matters to you, GW2 is not the game for you.

/thread

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GosuRusha510

What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?

What's the point of playing video games over and over if none of your in-game accomplishments matter in real life?

Great answer and question lol

Or you could perfect that look in The Secret World and the gear doesn't affect that look at all. /shrug

---

Originally posted by aesperus

---

Originally posted by helthros

---

Originally posted by Bladestrom Repeating the same bossss for months on end can be ok, but wouldn't it be better to have lot of other content to do at the same time?

---

You don't think they could release all the bosses at the same time? They'll chew through the bosses in weeks or days even, then what? It's unrealistic to think that programmers can crank out enough content to satisfy the insatiable thirst gamers have for PvE content without some sort of limitations.

---

I don't normally say this, but this is probably not the game for you, and you should probably not play it. This is a very difficult thing to explain, and no matter how many people manage to do so, people still don't seem to understand. So, I'll try one more time.

GW2 is not about a treadmill, or a grind, period. Can you play it that way? Absolutely; but the game is not designed around it. And that is a key difference. Most MMOs are.

Think about this for a minute. You can, essentially, grind or power through any form of content. However people generally don't do this for all forms of media. You could speed through most MMOs, without feeling like you've missed much, true. But could you say the same about speeding through a game like zelda, or uncharted, or mass effect? You could speed through reading a book. However you are probably going to skim over a lot of details that may be important. The reason being that these other games and media generally have multiple layers of content and detail on which to experience.

Can you play this game like every other MMO that you're supposedly sick of, and grind boss after boss? Yes, yes you can. However the assumption here is that you have to, and you don't. There is way more to this game than boss farming. If you choose to ignore all that, then fine, but it's not the game's doing.

So what is 'endgame' for this game? I know most people think of this as a 'buzz word', but it really is 'the game'. Once you hit max lvl (80), the entire game is opened up to you. You are free to experience every part of the game, regardless of lvl. You also are rewarded for all content, in a manner that scales up to your current lvl.

- If you only care about getting the coolest looking armor and gear. Yes, you will be running dungeons. This doesn't give you any advantage, but it will make your character stand out from other characters. Especially if you start mix & matching pieces of armor from different sets.

- If you want to explore, there is quite a massive world in which to do this in. You can uncover hidden treasures, puzzles, map completions, dynamic events, etc.

- If you want to craft, you can search for the rarer materials, and experiment with them to see what new recipes you can unlock

- If you want to play mini-games, theres tons of these scattered around the world

- If you want to PvP, you have sPvP and WvW to partake in

- You have meta events to experience / trigger. Large open world bosses.

- If you like lore. There are a lot of hidden lore pieces all around the world. People to talk to, places to discover, etc.

Point being is you have a lot of options. Far more than most MMOs. If you choose to ignore all the options to focus on just 1, then again, that's not really the game's fault. That's how you personally are choosing to view it.

People will burn through the content of this game, I have no doubt about that. People always do. However it's going to take a lot longer with this one than with other games. It took people about a month to burn through TOR, and about a week to burn through TSW. This game has more content than both combined. Not to mention, a lot of the content in this game changes quite a bit. You're first experience with an event can be dramatically different from the 2nd time you experience it, depending on a list of different factors. And on top of this, Anet will be cycling out events and swapping in new ones throughout the game's lifespan.

---

Holy Crap!!! Well said.

Originally posted by GosuRusha510

How is that fun? with no rewards?....what ever happen to risk and reward?

The only risks you encounter while playing video games are carpal tunnel, eye strain, and a sedentary lifestyle.