No way, especially for the games with high production values. They should be buy-to-play with an ethical cash shop. That way they can recoup some production costs upfront and make profit in the future.

Originally posted by SpottyGekko

Originally posted by VoreDock

With the leval of A+ games out now that are free 2 play is any game worth a sub and if so how much  after free 2 play games have made more money then most sub games not counting  WOW

 

so waht do you think

If F2P games make more money than sub games why is it that 95% of AAA MMO games have been sub-based at launch ?

 

The sub-based AAA MMO's that introduced F2P, or variants of it, mostly did so after their subscriber base shrank substantially. So it's very possible that they made more money after they went F2P than they did when they had 100K monthly subs. But that does NOT mean they made more money as F2P than they did with 400K+ monthly paying subscribers...

This is an easy one to answer. 

Sub games only make more money than F2P games if they hit over a certain amount of subscribers, probably 600+ thousand. 

Most AAA MMO's don't retain this amount of subs, so then change to F2P.

F2P makes more money than sub games with less than 600 thousand players because not only does F2P attract a massive number of new players, but most of them usually spend money in the game, even if its just once.

So sub works best for WoW (as the revenue is very stable considering it's playerbase) , and F2P works best for Lotro (it's sub revenue is not stable, but it's cash shop revenue is.)

On topic; Free to play doesn't work for everything.

Yes, it works for a game like Guild Wars, which have very sparse and small updates throughout the year. 

But for the likes of WoW, Rift and The Secret World - F2P just wouldn't work. They have the amount of subscribers to make subbing very profitable, and they update very, very often (Rift anyway, TSW looks to beat Rift at updating too.)

At the end of the day it's all about numbers, companies care more about money than their players, so it depends on what they believe their game will make most money in. 

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by VoreDock

With the leval of A+ games out now that are free 2 play is any game worth a sub and if so how much  after free 2 play games have made more money then most sub games not counting  WOW

 

so waht do you think

Oh lord no.  All games going F2P is like my worst nightmare.  What is the entire world becoming moocher hobos?

And all games going F2P is like a dream come true. No more commitment with subs. No more high entrance fee with box prices. Don't like it? Play an hour and quit. And you can play/try as many games as you like. One sub is cheap. 20 sub is getting expensive (as a hobby) and not to mention you will never get your money worth.

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by VoreDock

With the leval of A+ games out now that are free 2 play is any game worth a sub and if so how much  after free 2 play games have made more money then most sub games not counting  WOW

 

so waht do you think

Oh lord no.  All games going F2P is like my worst nightmare.  What is the entire world becoming moocher hobos?

And all games going F2P is like a dream come true. No more commitment with subs. No more high entrance fee with box prices. Don't like it? Play an hour and quit. And you can play/try as many games as you like. One sub is cheap. 20 sub is getting expensive (as a hobby) and not to mention you will never get your money worth.

And also no more AAA games. All MMO's will suddenly become as good quality as asian F2P's, which isn't good. No game company will ever make a AAA MMO without either a box fee or a sub, that is a fact. They will not rely on in-game sales alone to recouparate their budget.

Originally posted by Valua

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by VoreDock

With the leval of A+ games out now that are free 2 play is any game worth a sub and if so how much  after free 2 play games have made more money then most sub games not counting  WOW

 

so waht do you think

Oh lord no.  All games going F2P is like my worst nightmare.  What is the entire world becoming moocher hobos?

And all games going F2P is like a dream come true. No more commitment with subs. No more high entrance fee with box prices. Don't like it? Play an hour and quit. And you can play/try as many games as you like. One sub is cheap. 20 sub is getting expensive (as a hobby) and not to mention you will never get your money worth.

And also no more AAA games. All MMO's will suddenly become as good quality as asian F2P's, which isn't good. No game company will ever make a AAA MMO without either a box fee or a sub, that is a fact. They will not rely on in-game sales alone to recouparate their budget.

This is the reality. I rather have B2P or P2P games over F2P with cash shops anyday.

        No...SImply because some gamers will pay 50-60 bucks for anything just because it is new.......THeres money to be made on f2p games down the road, but these companies really should take advantage of people who have zero self control and will hand over their money blindly.

I hope not.  Because I paid far more money on f2p games than p2p games.  I have no self control.

Originally posted by GriselBrand

Originally posted by Valua

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by gainesvilleg

Originally posted by VoreDock

With the leval of A+ games out now that are free 2 play is any game worth a sub and if so how much  after free 2 play games have made more money then most sub games not counting  WOW

 

so waht do you think

Oh lord no.  All games going F2P is like my worst nightmare.  What is the entire world becoming moocher hobos?

And all games going F2P is like a dream come true. No more commitment with subs. No more high entrance fee with box prices. Don't like it? Play an hour and quit. And you can play/try as many games as you like. One sub is cheap. 20 sub is getting expensive (as a hobby) and not to mention you will never get your money worth.

And also no more AAA games. All MMO's will suddenly become as good quality as asian F2P's, which isn't good. No game company will ever make a AAA MMO without either a box fee or a sub, that is a fact. They will not rely on in-game sales alone to recouparate their budget.

This is the reality. I rather have B2P or P2P games over F2P with cash shops anyday.

Exactly..B2P and P2P over F2P any day.

The quality of F2P is really poor compared to what a B2P or Sub game offers, Subs are my personal choice and I hope more games revert back to a box/digital and Sub fee.

I would rather dedicate my time to one or two really good in depth MMOs than a lot of scattered poorly designed and soulless F2P games.

Bring on Arche Age and plenty more game like it (the West needs to start creating them here!!)

Well its certianly going that way.  I think I like Buy to Play more.  But again I haven't had any experience with a buy to play mmorpg. 

I hate F2P kind off.  The crushing restrictions many of them have dont really make it free.  Or it is, but you just have to be incredibly frustrated as you play and often.  Its a lie.  F2P is just an extremely extended trial with limitations so annoying they hope you will eventually begin to pay to play it decently. 

Im so very wary of any game that is F2P along with the option to sub.  I dont mess with those.  Because I know full well what the deal is there.  Plus there's a cash shop along with it which I never like.  I get to play a game (FOR FREE!) thats going to annoy me to no end on PURPOSE, so that they can hopefully tempt me to sub.  Gah.....

I'd almost rather have subs than that idiotic mess.  And I hate subs with an absolute passion. 

It's not the quality of f2p games that worries me.  My favorite mmorpg is a f2p.  It's the ethical of their cashshop that bothers me.

Usually they have cash shop with (too many unlocks), pay 2 win items, teleport scroll without it you have to walk 30 minutes from place to place. 

It's possible for game company to make alot of money with any type of subscription model.  There's pros and cons in each.

Definitely not.

FTP games are inherantly unfair because people who pay more for perks in them have advantages over people who do not.

The only way to have an even playing field is to have a subscription model -- or at least not have any form of cash shop.

Since FTP games make their money off a cash shop, it would be impossible to run a FTP game that way.

I think there should be more B2P MMOs. Most F2Pers don't even pay a cent. It would take a load off of all the players in F2P games if everybody just pitched in a little. Instead of trying to get a few people to toss out +$100 dollars by making the game have multiple inconviences, why not just have everybody pay $60 dollars for the base game?

Originally posted by Quenchster

I think there should be more B2P MMOs. Most F2Pers don't even pay a cent. It would take a load off of all the players in F2P games if everybody just pitched in a little. Instead of trying to get a few people to toss out +$100 dollars by making the game have multiple inconviences, why not just have everybody pay $60 dollars for the base game?

You said it yourself, most f2pers dont' even pay a cent.  So they probably dont' want to pay 60$ too.  Consider they can find ways to entertain themself for 0$, they dont' need to pay the 60$. 

Also, I find DDO, Aion, LOTRO, are bad example of f2p games.  Because those are games that were transformed to F2P, they don't start as f2p, and they are actually hybrid games which have a subscription option.  Those few people who use cashshop not just spend 100$+, they spend 100$+ every month.

F2P games are "inherently unfair" to people who play a lot. P2P are "inherently unfair" to people who play a little. I play a little. I will play only F2P games. What will play you doesn't interest me.