Originally posted by Valentina

Originally posted by Tayah

I don't think they can. They have next to nothing for communication with the community. They botched Illum. The loading screens and travel time to get from place to place is way too long and annoying, and was brought up in beta. Features were left out for released and finally given 4-6 months down the road, when it was brought up in beta, should have been in release.

They don't even test the patches they put in that end up breaking stuff, and don't get fixed. The game is like a single player game with a chatbox, it doesn't feel like an mmorpg at all. I can go on and on with the problems SWTOR has. They simply don't seem to care about the people they have managed to hang onto. People just aren't willing to put up with mediocrity these days, and certainly not willing to put up with poorly done WoW clones. If they wanted to play WoW, they'd play WoW.

....Do you know what you're talking about? Tbh, it doesn't sound like you do....

1. They have a test server, the test server fills up with each content update for weeks and the last couple of major updates have been almost flawless
2. They do periodic bug fixes and optimizations to the game both with major updates and afterwords, 1.3 and the update a few days ago is a testament to how well they're handling this game now, literally huge fixes and optimizations have been made just in the last few weeks and it's been a continued effort.
3. The chat box is like any other game, except you can have it at the top of your screen or the bottom and it's a really popular feature with the players, you can completely customize your UI ever since update 1.2, and I mean completely except for reskinning it, and it's a very clean UI so not much demand for changing it.
4. Open World PvP is never done right in any MMO to date, Blizzard failed at it miserably, in theory Ilum should have worked fine, but it didn't they acknowledged this and people have sense moved on. With recent updates more people are participating in OWPVP, though.
5. Loading screens move fast if you have a decent internet connection, I've never really even seen this complaint before but I do agree that traveling can feel a little disjointed, they remedied a lot of that though in 1.2 when they made going to and from your ship a faster process.
6. Lastly, their communication and interactivity with the players and community has probably been the best I've ever seen in an MMO service, outside of testing with GW2/ArenaNet. They do Q&A's, they do back and forth feedback on the forums, twitter, facebook, etc getting player feedback and just goofing around sometimes, they even get involved in the debates and discussions going on in the community and they have listened to players on many counts. I feel like you haven't truly paid attention to what's been going on with this game post-launch and you really should with any game if you're going to involve yourself in topics about said games so that you know what you're talking about and can therefor make accurate comments and assesments toward each title. This goes for everyone on this website, tbh. I see far too many posts like this.

Totally disagree with point 6. Their communication with the player base it one of the worts I expericenced MMO wide.

I put it along SWG one.

They are speaking but saying nothing at all.

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

 

If BW can hire some producers that give a darn and arent totally incompentant? Listen to players?  Maybe start a new campaign showing TOR has been given a "tune-up" or "revised" of its content and features?  Possibly gaining a few lost subs and stay at or above 500k?

 

OR will TOR just keep sliding slowly more and then finally stabliize at around 200k? 

 

SWTOR is not an MMO, that is kinda where the story begins & ends. Its a single player game with co-op and VS play and thats about as good as it gets. There is nothing Massively Multiplayer about the game & as a result most players balk at paying a subscription for something that is simply not an MMO.

 

The game was designed with this flaw in its foundations and I think it will continue to bleed subs until it eventually goes F2P with Microtransactions or buy to play, sadly the latter is the model SWTOR should probably have followed from day one.

SW:TOR is only a single player game with co-op if you consider WoW, TSW, LotRO, WAR, AoC, EQ2, and rift to be singleplayer as well.  It's beyond asinine that people like you can make such statements without being warned for trolling because there is zero evidence to back up what you're saying.  On my server, there are regularly 250 people in the fleet center at prime time.  People are shilling wares, forming flashpoints, organizating operations, and just chatting with one another.  On every planet there's anywhere from 20-100 people adventuring and forming groups for heroic quests.  Who the heck cares that you can't see all 100 nondescript strangers running around you killing your quest mobs when you're not even working together with them?  If the phasing is the only evidence you have to claim SW:TOR is a single player game, that's an absolutely foolish reason.

SW:TOR has just as much, if not more group content than even World of Warcraft.  People regularly group for heroic missions and world bosses in addition to standard MMO dungeon grinding and PvP matches.  I don't understand why it seems any time an MMORPG implements story-based content, there's such a large contingent of players that whine on and on about it being a singleplayer game.  It's a baseless acusation that a few haters came up with even before the game went into beta that somehow became popular.

So the only reason to group is to do some combat something? Are there any social activities that are usually a given in anything claiming to be massively multiplayer? Are there chat bubbles so you can actually follow a conversation without needing to be a speed reading expert? Does TOR allow you to go in the direction you want to go to get anywhere or is everything a corridored illusion? Does the group content have any variables at all that keep it from being exactly the same as the last time you played it? Are you able to distinguish your characters from anyone else's? Does TOR have anything that can't be found in Call of Duty? Is Call of Duty a MMO? What is TOR closer to, a multi-player combat game or a MMO? What do you consider only being multi-player or MMO? 

"Listen to players?"

im sure if they wanted the game to tank faster then it already is,thats probably the best idea.listen to there players

Originally posted by Bardus

Originally posted by SuperXero89

Originally posted by TheCrow2k

Originally posted by Paddyspub

 

 

If BW can hire some producers that give a darn and arent totally incompentant? Listen to players?  Maybe start a new campaign showing TOR has been given a "tune-up" or "revised" of its content and features?  Possibly gaining a few lost subs and stay at or above 500k?

 

OR will TOR just keep sliding slowly more and then finally stabliize at around 200k? 

 

SWTOR is not an MMO, that is kinda where the story begins & ends. Its a single player game with co-op and VS play and thats about as good as it gets. There is nothing Massively Multiplayer about the game & as a result most players balk at paying a subscription for something that is simply not an MMO.

 

The game was designed with this flaw in its foundations and I think it will continue to bleed subs until it eventually goes F2P with Microtransactions or buy to play, sadly the latter is the model SWTOR should probably have followed from day one.

SW:TOR is only a single player game with co-op if you consider WoW, TSW, LotRO, WAR, AoC, EQ2, and rift to be singleplayer as well.  It's beyond asinine that people like you can make such statements without being warned for trolling because there is zero evidence to back up what you're saying.  On my server, there are regularly 250 people in the fleet center at prime time.  People are shilling wares, forming flashpoints, organizating operations, and just chatting with one another.  On every planet there's anywhere from 20-100 people adventuring and forming groups for heroic quests.  Who the heck cares that you can't see all 100 nondescript strangers running around you killing your quest mobs when you're not even working together with them?  If the phasing is the only evidence you have to claim SW:TOR is a single player game, that's an absolutely foolish reason.

SW:TOR has just as much, if not more group content than even World of Warcraft.  People regularly group for heroic missions and world bosses in addition to standard MMO dungeon grinding and PvP matches.  I don't understand why it seems any time an MMORPG implements story-based content, there's such a large contingent of players that whine on and on about it being a singleplayer game.  It's a baseless acusation that a few haters came up with even before the game went into beta that somehow became popular.

So the only reason to group is to do some combat something? Are there any social activities that are usually a given in anything claiming to be massively multiplayer? Are there chat bubbles so you can actually follow a conversation without needing to be a speed reading expert? Does TOR allow you to go in the direction you want to go to get anywhere or is everything a corridored illusion? Does the group content have any variables at all that keep it from being exactly the same as the last time you played it? Are you able to distinguish your characters from anyone else's? Does TOR have anything that can't be found in Call of Duty? Is Call of Duty a MMO? What is TOR closer to, a multi-player combat game or a MMO? What do you consider only being multi-player or MMO? 

This post just makes me...umm...well ok listen

I would have no problems with people saying SW:TOR is not an MMORPG if that same standard applied to WoW, LotRO, RIft, AoC, EQ2, WAR, or any othr modern themepark that I'm leaving off the list.  The fact of the mater is, even people who are vehemently protesting that SW:TOR is not an MMORPG are not going into forums for other games protesting the same thing when the same thing could be said about all of them.  It's ignorant.

Are their chat bubbles in EverQuest?  Is it not an MMORPG?  

What social actitivites are there in WoW?

ToR allows you to go everywhere you want within the confines of the zone just like every MMO.  The problem is that the planets are too big for players to be able to explore all of them in their entirety.  They could have provided drastically scaled down versions of entire planets similar to SWG, but they would probably have been even more generic looking than they already are.  Nonetheless, BioWare designed their planets a certain way and there's nothing we can do about it.  You can argue that SW:TOR doesn't feel like a living galaxy because of this, but it has nothing to do with whether or not it's a true MMORPG.

What variables does group content in any other themepark MMO have that keeps it unique every time you play?

How do I distinguish my toon in WoW from other toons?

The Call of Duty example is a whole other can of worms.  My first response is that Call of Duty simply isn't a persistant virtual world that you can log into at any time.  Even if SW:TOR's universe doesn't feel as imersive as Azeroth or Norrath, it's still a virtual plane where I can log into a character and go about my business.  I'm not just sitting in a chat room waiting for a game to start.  I'm actively controlling a virtual avatar alongside thousands of other people who can adventure together any time they chose.  Yet again, even if you think it's still similar, SW:TOR is no more similar to CoD than is WoW.

"Open World PvP is never done right in any MMO to date, Blizzard failed at it miserably, in theory Ilum should have worked fine, but it didn't they acknowledged this and people have sense moved on. With recent updates more people are participating in OWPVP, though.

http://www.lineage2.com/en/

speak for yourself on open world pvp has never been done right in any mmo to date.ive yet to find an mmo that has did pvp better then Lineage 2,and your talking to someone who played the game(and still does)for years.i do have to warn you though,its a korean mmo.so your average wow casual probably wouldnt last a day in it

oh and unlike good old blizzard,the company that makes Lineage 2 probably would ignore you if you cried on forums about stuff

I think the game was so reduced in the year before its launch - in order to staunch its haemmorhaging costs - that its structure is too limited and restricted for the developers to add the kind of rich features that would make the game interesting to play.

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"Open World PvP is never done right in any MMO to date, Blizzard failed at it miserably, in theory Ilum should have worked fine, but it didn't they acknowledged this and people have sense moved on. With recent updates more people are participating in OWPVP, though.

http://www.lineage2.com/en/

 

speak for yourself on open world pvp has never been done right in any mmo to date.ive yet to find an mmo that has did pvp better then Lineage 2,and your talking to someone who played the game(and still does)for years.i do have to warn you though,its a korean mmo.so your average wow casual probably wouldnt last a day in it

oh and unlike good old blizzard,the company that makes Lineage 2 probably would ignore you if you cried on forums about stuff

 

 

I personalluy believe that SWG's open world PVP was done well - though the actual combat system needed work.

Three little words will save SWOTOR from certain doom.

Free to play.

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"Open World PvP is never done right in any MMO to date, Blizzard failed at it miserably, in theory Ilum should have worked fine, but it didn't they acknowledged this and people have sense moved on. With recent updates more people are participating in OWPVP, though.

http://www.lineage2.com/en/

 

speak for yourself on open world pvp has never been done right in any mmo to date.ive yet to find an mmo that has did pvp better then Lineage 2,and your talking to someone who played the game(and still does)for years.i do have to warn you though,its a korean mmo.so your average wow casual probably wouldnt last a day in it

oh and unlike good old blizzard,the company that makes Lineage 2 probably would ignore you if you cried on forums about stuff

 

 

I personalluy believe that SWG's open world PVP was done well - though the actual combat system needed work.

Darkfall did it well. Dark Age of Camelot did it well. Eve did it well.

And to one of the above posters, yes I do accuse games like WoW, LotRO and other "themeparks (WoW clones) of not being MMORPGs. Its just SWTOR takes the instancing farther than any of the rest, and give you NPC companions.

Originally posted by Garvon3

Originally posted by noncley

Originally posted by CrunkJuice2

"Open World PvP is never done right in any MMO to date, Blizzard failed at it miserably, in theory Ilum should have worked fine, but it didn't they acknowledged this and people have sense moved on. With recent updates more people are participating in OWPVP, though.

http://www.lineage2.com/en/

 

speak for yourself on open world pvp has never been done right in any mmo to date.ive yet to find an mmo that has did pvp better then Lineage 2,and your talking to someone who played the game(and still does)for years.i do have to warn you though,its a korean mmo.so your average wow casual probably wouldnt last a day in it

oh and unlike good old blizzard,the company that makes Lineage 2 probably would ignore you if you cried on forums about stuff

 

 

I personalluy believe that SWG's open world PVP was done well - though the actual combat system needed work.

Darkfall did it well. Dark Age of Camelot did it well. Eve did it well.

 

And to one of the above posters, yes I do accuse games like WoW, LotRO and other "themeparks (WoW clones) of not being MMORPGs. Its just SWTOR takes the instancing farther than any of the rest, and give you NPC companions.

Fallen Earth too.

Originally posted by Magnetia

Three little words will save SWOTOR from certain doom.

Free to play.

It might save it from doom - but not from living death.

Nope.. TOR is dead to most everyone that left..  I won't even consider coming back unless TOR pulls a NGE and revamps the entire gameplay away FROM it's current end game (raid centric).. and revise most of the leveling process as well..  It would have to be almost a whole new game..  That isnt' going to happen.. 

Yes it can, in the same way I can win a lottery jackpot.

Originally posted by Souldrainer
Vanilla WoW nearly tanked before TBC came. People were enraged at space aliens and alternate dimensions in a medieval game. That said, TBC solidified the game's status as a top seller. It's a good point of reference. SWTOR is a young game, and if Xfire can be believed (highly debatable) it is holding the #2 spot behind WoW... So it is possible that the game is actually doing well, even in spite of the last two patches sucking and driving massive chunks of people away. Can the game be saved? Sure. Will it be saved? That depends on a lot of things, but the biggest factors will be their decisions regarding their first paid expansion and the FTP or B2P payment models.

For me it was the exact oppisite, after TBC came even tho I have all the expansions, I  kinda just stopped caring.  I think about the time they added Ahn'Qiraj that was about as good as it got for me. 

Personally I dont think mmos need expansions, its just wasted money, I think that kills a mmo in my opionion but hey, im not a developer.

Seriously, who cares?

I stopped playing 3 weeks after launch because it just sucked. This game isnt fixable, patchable or w/e.

It suffers from a conseptual design flaw.

It will be difficult for 2 reasons

1) They need to turn SWTOR into a MMORPG

2) They have to make the game more Starwarsy

The way I see it, is that the game is a long way off, also EA won't put any big money to rebuild SWTOR.

I think $100 Million is already enough money thrown at this game.

So my answer is no.

I have made an honest attempt to log in. I've done the transfers and re-allotted my skill points but I cannot get motivated to actually play the game. I;m just dreading so much more of the same that drove me from the game at the end of my first free month.

Maybe if they made drastical changes to core game mechanics and came up with a good F2P model. But probably only due to catering to a different market segment.

Most MMO players if they turn their back on a game / company don't ever look back and return even when things look better.

Hard to see the future is, always on the move always changing....no

It would take another 200 million to make the real MMO they were supposed to. the entire MMO is flawed and the design is so restricting they make Wow look like a sandbox MMO.

Plus the devs there seem to be in save my job mode. we don't have long until lucas steps in since he has the ultimate power over TOR. some guy was yelling at me in another thread for saying lucas has the power and not BW but it's true. try to deny it and not long from now you will see.

Lucas stepped in on sony and tried to fix SWG. but they had no clue. SWG suffered a premaure release from beta as well with no space combat and many many features missing. TOR had the same problem.

It seems history is repeating itself and GW2 looming like Wow was looming over SWG in 2003 it will have the same effect.

If History sticks here then expect a huge shake up and the SW:TOR:NGE in 5 months. in the end 8 years from now they will be closing it down for the next great lucas made MMO since he won't allow anyone else to mess it up but him now after this last screw up.