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The Pub at MMORPG.COM  » How to make Gold/Item/Hack Selling Illegal in the US?

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40 posts found
  Koroshiya

Hard Core Member

Joined: 6/18/05
Posts: 251

Live with love, and love will find you.

7/13/12 5:29:13 PM#21
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Old, yet semi-recent news: Gold / Item / Hack selling has been made illegal in Korea. The punishment for breaking the law will be a 50 million won fine (£27,612) and a maximum jail sentence of five years.

 

I don't know...   is it even possible (with enough of a following) to get this done within the US or any other country?

 

Even though I don't buy gold, it still greatly infects my gameplay.

  • Gold farmers pump out so much gold that it destroys the virtual economy. The value of each piece of gold rapidly goes down. This makes it much harder for legit players to compete.
  • Constant /messages, ads, and spam. It doesn't end. /ignore is pointless, as new bots or characters appear hourly to spam.
  • Cheaters are the worse. However, almost every cheater has no idea how to program a bot. They buy them. Korea made this illegal as well. I see nothing but a positive here.
  • Constant paypal and real money scams.
 
 
Gold/Item/Hack selling is just all around shitty for every legit player - millions and millions of legit players.
 
 
 
How can we come together to bring attention to this? Is there some legal petition one can create? lol. I don't know.
 
 
thanks

We have enough laws, you want to change the way it works change the players.  If there wasn't a market for it, then it wouldn't be popular.  

“The people that are trying to make the world worse never take a day off , why should I. Light up the darkness” – Bob Marley

  Creslin321

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/27/09
Posts: 5424

7/13/12 5:48:22 PM#22

Who really gives a crap if third-party gold selling is illegal when the game dev is selling gold themselves?

The only thing making third-party gold selling illegal is going to do is make it so the game dev can fix prices wherever they want with no competition...it doesn't benefit the players at all.

[mod edit]

Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  User Deleted
7/13/12 6:04:50 PM#23

Instead of banning people cought cheating by buying gold or what have you, maybe permananly flag their accounts so  all their characters are flagged as cheaters and maybe make them look like something horribly lame that the person would feel shame of being seen like that.

 

Then let the public ridicule of the masses be hurled on the cheater. 

 

They can still play the game but...who wants to play with a cheater?

  fenistil

Novice Member

Joined: 9/22/11
Posts: 3016

7/13/12 7:24:24 PM#24
Originally posted by Creslin321

Who really gives a crap if third-party gold selling is illegal when the game dev is selling gold themselves?

The only thing making third-party gold selling illegal is going to do is make it so the game dev can fix prices wherever they want with no competition...it doesn't benefit the players at all.

[mod edit]

THIS.

+1

 

@Psychow

That is part of a problem. 

Devs rarely go against buyers, and if they do punishment is usually close to non-existant like temporary ban.

Going after and punishing sellers almost exclusively is part of a problem.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

7/13/12 7:37:47 PM#25
Originally posted by xdemonhunter

Does it bother me that people can buy their way to the top be it in pvp or pve? Yeah it does, i think it is kind of if i enjoyed playing soccer/basketball or whatever, and im having fun and being amazed at how me and my friends progress then some random kid with alot of money buys robot arms and beats everybody with no effort at all, would u fell happy about that?

Well, it boils down to THIS. You don't feel good if other buys their way ahead of you. Well, i really don't care because i don't have to play with anyone who i do not like.

Do you care when you play a console game, then your neighbor beat it with a cheat code?

Any game is supposed to be played and tuned in a way people can accomplish things on their own they shouldnt sell short-cuts, if ur playing a game and u cant advance either your lazy/really bad at the game in particular or the game wasent done right and has critical problems.

If someone is willing to give me $10 for that sword so they can be lazy, i am more than happy to take their money. It is not like that virtual sword that i am not using .. is doing me any good sittnig in my stash.

If you play pvp, i understand. But if it is only pve, so what? So what if someone else is bad & lazy. How would that be a "critical problem" for me? It is not like i have to play with the guy.

 

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

7/13/12 7:38:55 PM#26
Originally posted by Psychow

Instead of banning people cought cheating by buying gold or what have you, maybe permananly flag their accounts so  all their characters are flagged as cheaters and maybe make them look like something horribly lame that the person would feel shame of being seen like that.

 

Then let the public ridicule of the masses be hurled on the cheater. 

 

They can still play the game but...who wants to play with a cheater?

hmm it is not cheating if there is a legit RMAH.

  bishbosh2

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/13/12
Posts: 66

7/13/12 9:29:34 PM#27
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Old, yet semi-recent news: Gold / Item / Hack selling has been made illegal in Korea. The punishment for breaking the law will be a 50 million won fine (£27,612) and a maximum jail sentence of five years.

 

I don't know...   is it even possible (with enough of a following) to get this done within the US or any other country?

 

Even though I don't buy gold, it still greatly infects my gameplay.

  • Gold farmers pump out so much gold that it destroys the virtual economy. The value of each piece of gold rapidly goes down. This makes it much harder for legit players to compete.
  • Constant /messages, ads, and spam. It doesn't end. /ignore is pointless, as new bots or characters appear hourly to spam.
  • Cheaters are the worse. However, almost every cheater has no idea how to program a bot. They buy them. Korea made this illegal as well. I see nothing but a positive here.
  • Constant paypal and real money scams.
 
 
Gold/Item/Hack selling is just all around shitty for every legit player - millions and millions of legit players.
 
 
 
How can we come together to bring attention to this? Is there some legal petition one can create? lol. I don't know.
 
 
thanks

i dont think gold/item/hack selling should be illegal lol..... It would be completely ridculous to implement legal repurcussions for breaking the terms and conditions of a EULA. How exactly would you implement/word this law so it isnt misused?

also majority of these gold sellers operate outside USA and USA laws would have no effect.

Game companies have the freedom to terminate service to people they feel are not following the terms and conditions and you want to give corporations and the government additional powers?

 

[mod edit]

  xdemonhunter

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/12
Posts: 31

7/13/12 9:33:56 PM#28
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by xdemonhunter

Does it bother me that people can buy their way to the top be it in pvp or pve? Yeah it does, i think it is kind of if i enjoyed playing soccer/basketball or whatever, and im having fun and being amazed at how me and my friends progress then some random kid with alot of money buys robot arms and beats everybody with no effort at all, would u fell happy about that?

Well, it boils down to THIS. You don't feel good if other buys their way ahead of you. Well, i really don't care because i don't have to play with anyone who i do not like.

Do you care when you play a console game, then your neighbor beat it with a cheat code?

Any game is supposed to be played and tuned in a way people can accomplish things on their own they shouldnt sell short-cuts, if ur playing a game and u cant advance either your lazy/really bad at the game in particular or the game wasent done right and has critical problems.

If someone is willing to give me $10 for that sword so they can be lazy, i am more than happy to take their money. It is not like that virtual sword that i am not using .. is doing me any good sittnig in my stash.

If you play pvp, i understand. But if it is only pve, so what? So what if someone else is bad & lazy. How would that be a "critical problem" for me? It is not like i have to play with the guy.

 

Not the same thing i dont need to interact with anyone that cheats in a console game and it dosent affect my game play. On the other hand selling items for real money do, take what blizzard is doing do u really think they wont lower drop rates (as they already are) and increase game difficulty to encourage people to go for the cash shop?

Thats just common sense if they make good drops harder to get and made them necessary/a must to progress even in pve (this is what i said about it affecting pve like pvp but it is more tricky to see) ur choices will be ridiculous amount of work farming or paying up. They will cash in alot more and this the model used for a long time in cash shop based games that blizzard seems to be experimenting in a little different way.

Basically i dont care if some gets a little help from the company if it is not affecting my game play in a negative way, when the company gets greedy and wanna prey on said player and increase game difficulty and other things that would make the game harder for me then i start to care.

  GTwander

Novice Member

Joined: 3/14/09
Posts: 6125

LARPer Hunter

7/13/12 9:42:23 PM#29

I can see only two ways;

1) Reinforcing corporate interests in sealing their right to own all points of their properties, making it illegal to sell accounts and items outside their supervision (and getting their own cut).

2) Making it illegal to price all virtual goods to begin with, based on their intangible nature.

Both ends open up roads that can ruin the genre, either way... because you are giving all power to the companies that make/host the games, removing any 'ownership' a played may have, or outright making it impossible to sell/but assets that simply do not exist.

Writer / Musician / Game Designer

Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture

  Prankster

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/26/04
Posts: 167

People Suck Avoid Them Whenever Possible

7/13/12 10:54:14 PM#30
Originally posted by mmoDAD

Old, yet semi-recent news: Gold / Item / Hack selling has been made illegal in Korea. The punishment for breaking the law will be a 50 million won fine (£27,612) and a maximum jail sentence of five years.

 

I don't know...   is it even possible (with enough of a following) to get this done within the US or any other country?

 

Even though I don't buy gold, it still greatly infects my gameplay.

  • Gold farmers pump out so much gold that it destroys the virtual economy. The value of each piece of gold rapidly goes down. This makes it much harder for legit players to compete.
  • Constant /messages, ads, and spam. It doesn't end. /ignore is pointless, as new bots or characters appear hourly to spam.
  • Cheaters are the worse. However, almost every cheater has no idea how to program a bot. They buy them. Korea made this illegal as well. I see nothing but a positive here.
  • Constant paypal and real money scams.
 
 
Gold/Item/Hack selling is just all around shitty for every legit player - millions and millions of legit players.
 
 
 
How can we come together to bring attention to this? Is there some legal petition one can create? lol. I don't know.
 
 
thanks

It's not going to happen. Game developers have decided to go the other way and sell the gold directly to their customers thus controlling the market. There were a lot of other options but that's the path they took.

Refugee from UO,EQ,AC,AC2,AO,DAOC,L2,SB,HZ,CoH,PT,EQ2,WoW,VG,SWG,EVE,WAR,DF,MO,AI,GA,LOTRO, SWTOR... Gw2 on Deck

  xdemonhunter

Novice Member

Joined: 4/24/12
Posts: 31

7/13/12 11:44:40 PM#31

Sorry double post.

  Axehilt

Elite Member

Joined: 5/09/09
Posts: 7614

7/14/12 10:10:56 AM#32
Originally posted by nariusseldon

actually i think the RMAH makes gold farming less relevant, because if you want to buy items with real money, just use the RMAH and by-pass in-game gold.

Now one can argue that "gold" farmers can farm items and sell them on RMAH, but then they have to compete with every one else.

Er, have you been paying attention to the conversation?  Recently it was discussed (A) RMAH goldselling resulted in non-RMAH Gold Seller prices dropping by more than 50% and (B) mmoDAD mentioned that price is lower than RMAH gold by about 75% (1/4th the price.)

So yeah, gold farming becomes slightly less relevant when you can buy it for real world money and when everyone is farming it, but some players won't use the RMAH to buy gold, they'll buy it at the cheaper non-RMAH price.

Either way my original point is RMAH severely cuts into the goldseller bottom line and profit potential, and time will tell whether their profit margins were large enough to survive that kinda competition.  I would've thought it'd be brutal enough to put them out of business, but maybe they were actually making a lot more than I imagined.

  Disdena

Novice Member

Joined: 3/05/10
Posts: 1098

7/14/12 10:57:13 AM#33
Originally posted by Prankster

It's not going to happen. Game developers have decided to go the other way and sell the gold directly to their customers thus controlling the market. There were a lot of other options but that's the path they took.

Because Blizzard is clearly the only developer of video games.

  nariusseldon

Elite Member

Joined: 12/21/07
Posts: 21640

7/14/12 11:45:15 AM#34
Originally posted by xdemonhunter
Originally posted by nariusseldon
Originally posted by xdemonhunter

Does it bother me that people can buy their way to the top be it in pvp or pve? Yeah it does, i think it is kind of if i enjoyed playing soccer/basketball or whatever, and im having fun and being amazed at how me and my friends progress then some random kid with alot of money buys robot arms and beats everybody with no effort at all, would u fell happy about that?

Well, it boils down to THIS. You don't feel good if other buys their way ahead of you. Well, i really don't care because i don't have to play with anyone who i do not like.

Do you care when you play a console game, then your neighbor beat it with a cheat code?

Any game is supposed to be played and tuned in a way people can accomplish things on their own they shouldnt sell short-cuts, if ur playing a game and u cant advance either your lazy/really bad at the game in particular or the game wasent done right and has critical problems.

If someone is willing to give me $10 for that sword so they can be lazy, i am more than happy to take their money. It is not like that virtual sword that i am not using .. is doing me any good sittnig in my stash.

If you play pvp, i understand. But if it is only pve, so what? So what if someone else is bad & lazy. How would that be a "critical problem" for me? It is not like i have to play with the guy.

 

Not the same thing i dont need to interact with anyone that cheats in a console game and it dosent affect my game play. On the other hand selling items for real money do, take what blizzard is doing do u really think they wont lower drop rates (as they already are) and increase game difficulty to encourage people to go for the cash shop?

Thats just common sense if they make good drops harder to get and made them necessary/a must to progress even in pve (this is what i said about it affecting pve like pvp but it is more tricky to see) ur choices will be ridiculous amount of work farming or paying up. They will cash in alot more and this the model used for a long time in cash shop based games that blizzard seems to be experimenting in a little different way.

Basically i dont care if some gets a little help from the company if it is not affecting my game play in a negative way, when the company gets greedy and wanna prey on said player and increase game difficulty and other things that would make the game harder for me then i start to care.


Well, Blizz just increased drop rates TWICE since 1.03 and now Act 1 drops level 63 (item level, highest) items. So obviously they are not going in the direction you are talking about.

Secondly, do you want an easy game that you get an upgrade every time something drops? It is a matter of degree and you can always quit a game that you think is too difficult.

Specifically, i don't think D3 is too difficult. I have been able to get enough upgrade to go from Act 1 to Act 3 (without paying real money, i did sell on RMAH and pump the money back into the game, which i don't count as paying extra) in 2-3 weeks. That is 10x faster than progression in a typically MMO (which there can be weeks before a significant upgrade.

So it depends on the game.

Oh, and this argument that companies make cash shop games too difficult is balony. I can always play another game if it is too difficult. I play plenty of F2P games without paying, and that does not detract from the fun. I always quite before the road block.

  Jemcrystal

Hard Core Member

Joined: 1/02/08
Posts: 1440

Let em put a slave ring thru u're nose u're prob not going to like where they're taking you. Think.

7/14/12 12:43:14 PM#35

[mod edit]

Forsaken World has the perfect fix for gold sellers.  They incorporated them into the game so they no longer yell in chat.  You don't need to jail rogues, thieves, and botters.  You need to hire them for their ingenuity.

  Amana

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 1/03/11
Posts: 2450

7/14/12 4:22:21 PM#36

Just poking a head in here to ask that the topic generally not veer toward human rights. ethics, or government in general during this conversation. These are side issues that yes, are related, but those have atendency to make threads spiral out of control.

Merci. 

To give feedback on moderation, contact community@mmorpg.com

  Danrlei

Novice Member

Joined: 7/23/12
Posts: 28

7/23/12 10:38:56 AM#37

I think its going to come when the state start to control the virtual envinronment.

So when the State start to control the design, what is allowed or forbidden, the monetization, who can play, when one can play, and so on... then we will get "gold/item/hack selling illegal.

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12717

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/23/12 5:40:04 PM#38
Originally posted by fenistil
Originally posted by Creslin321

The only thing making third-party gold selling illegal is going to do is make it so the game dev can fix prices wherever they want with no competition...it doesn't benefit the players at all.

THIS.

+1

At this point, we can basically rule out the possibility of either of you ever having been a GM or MMO CS rep.

 

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

  rungard

Novice Member

Joined: 7/25/03
Posts: 1037

The Sandbox Foundation does not exist!

7/23/12 5:49:09 PM#39

or...dont put currency in the game...

instead have a wheel of materials, that has random availability.

players will figure out by themselves on each server whats most valuable,,,and of course that will change

 

 

  Loktofeit

Elite Member

Joined: 1/13/10
Posts: 12717

Currently playing EVE, SMITE, ArcheAge, and Combat Arms

7/23/12 5:55:31 PM#40
Originally posted by rungard

or...dont put currency in the game...

instead have a wheel of materials, that has random availability.

players will figure out by themselves on each server whats most valuable,,,and of course that will change

 

The players will create their own currency, adjusting it as necessary. If the system works against them too much, they will just leave.

 

When coming up with ideas, it's good to remember that players do not simply abandon human behaviour once they are in a game. If anything, their behaviour is amplified, as they have fewer restrictions and less repercussion, especially in a voluntary leisure activity. In the absence of currency, people will establish a trade system or personal currency that the majority find fair and equitable.

"And wikipedia is as accurate as Britannica. Wikipedia is very reliable. You would be hard pressed to find a more reliable source for these kinds of things." -fivoroth

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