lol I see all this hubris about how having fun just for the sake of having fun is above and beyond doing things to get gear. However, I'm forced to ask myself, how does attaining gear limit the individuals with this seemingly misplaced hubris from having fun in games where getting gear is a potential reward? It seems like a load of BS if you ask me.

If it's about having fun to have fun, then shoudln't attaining the gear be completely beneath you? Yet most find the energy and time to complain about "needing" to obtain the gear. Well, what about "needing" to repeat content just for the sake of having fun? Can't you still do that in games with gear treadmills? Again, seems like a load of BS.

I'd rather it simply is fun and something I look forward to doing again because it was a fun challenge instead of doing it because the game forces me to do it as it is the most optimal way of progressing.

I have a job thank you, I don't need to come home for more.

I don't fucking get the thing with these boards and the constant need to find something to complain about in GW2. Are you playing the devils advocate here? Because that would make sense.

So what's the point of you complaining about a feature you like not making it into the game? You obviously dislike Anets design philosophy, that should be enough for you to look the other way and go play something else.

Originally posted by Sideras

I'd rather it simply is fun and something I look forward to doing again because it was a fun challenge instead of doing it because the game forces me to do it as it is the most optimal way of progressing.

I have a job thank you, I don't need to come home for more.

I don't fucking get the thing with these boards and the constant need to find something to complain about in GW2. Are you playing the devils advocate here? Because that would make sense.

So what's the point of you complaining about a feature you like not making it into the game? You obviously dislike Anets design philosophy, that should be enough for you to look the other way and go play something else.

Isn't the game still forcing you to do it as a means to have fun in the game? Sure, you don't have the "forced progression". But you still have the forced repetition in order to maintain some level of enjoyment in the game.

All you did was take out the carrot, but you still have the treadmill... Can you honestly pretend like that's better?

I never got rewarded for finding Princess Peach, but it sure was nicer than being told she was in another castle.

My guess is repetition is up to the player. 

I know I don't plan to see any instance more than twice if I can help it after token grinding in WoW to the point where I miss random drops from epic monsters in EQ1.

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

I never got rewarded for finding Princess Peach, but it sure was nicer than being told she was in another castle.

My guess is repetition is up to the player. 

I know I don't plan to see any instance more than twice if I can help it after token grinding in WoW to the point where I miss random drops from epic monsters in EQ1.

lol wow cool comparison there. What about Contra and the awesome weapons you would get by getting further into the game. What about how much easier levels were when you had said weapon upgrades and you hadn't died in a few levels.

Out of place comparisons make for a strong arguement.....

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by Sideras

I'd rather it simply is fun and something I look forward to doing again because it was a fun challenge instead of doing it because the game forces me to do it as it is the most optimal way of progressing.

I have a job thank you, I don't need to come home for more.

I don't fucking get the thing with these boards and the constant need to find something to complain about in GW2. Are you playing the devils advocate here? Because that would make sense.

So what's the point of you complaining about a feature you like not making it into the game? You obviously dislike Anets design philosophy, that should be enough for you to look the other way and go play something else.

 

Isn't the game still forcing you to do it as a means to have fun in the game? Sure, you don't have the "forced progression". But you still have the forced repetition in order to maintain some level of enjoyment in the game.

 

All you did was take out the carrot, but you still have the treadmill... Can you honestly pretend like that's better?

But it is still a carrot for some people.

You still get great gear from Dungeons in GW2, but they aren't the only places to get gear of the same quality. The "skins" will differentiate them from other similar gear, but for people who like to run instances, it also provides a clear way of obtaining top notch gear. Also, Arenanet has said that Dungeon gear may offer some stat distributions not found on other gear, though the over all power level will be the same as similar quality gear obtained from Karma Vendors, crafting, personal story, etc...

What is different about GW2 is that once you do obtain the best level 80 stat gear, there will be no stat inflation beyond that point for level 80 gear. Once you have ontained all the max stat gear you need for various builds, the incentives to doing further Dungeons will be fun, a sense of achievment and new armor/weapon skins.

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

I never got rewarded for finding Princess Peach, but it sure was nicer than being told she was in another castle.

My guess is repetition is up to the player. 

I know I don't plan to see any instance more than twice if I can help it after token grinding in WoW to the point where I miss random drops from epic monsters in EQ1.

 

lol wow cool comparison there. What about Contra and the awesome weapons you would get by getting further into the game. What about how much easier levels were when you had said weapon upgrades and you hadn't died in a few levels.

 

Out of place comparisons make for a strong arguement.....

You know I never cared for the upgrades in Contra. I liked the rapid fire version of the main gun but I found the game was actually easier by learning how to dodge things and taking advantage of the level design than relying on gear alone.

You'd think MMORPG devs would learn something from that.

for the experiance lol im guessing you don't play games unless you are feeling like you are the best ? in an mmo id like to feel i can go back and do things and they will have changed, and along with it play with my friends, i don't care much for grinding the same dungeon over and over and over and over, for a week, stacking up so many hours and most probably years off my life, just so i can be that tiny bit better than everyone. the whole world should be a challenge :)

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

I never got rewarded for finding Princess Peach, but it sure was nicer than being told she was in another castle.

My guess is repetition is up to the player. 

I know I don't plan to see any instance more than twice if I can help it after token grinding in WoW to the point where I miss random drops from epic monsters in EQ1.

 

lol wow cool comparison there. What about Contra and the awesome weapons you would get by getting further into the game. What about how much easier levels were when you had said weapon upgrades and you hadn't died in a few levels.

 

Out of place comparisons make for a strong arguement.....

You know I never cared for the upgrades in Contra. I liked the rapid fire version of the main gun but I found the game was actually easier by learning how to dodge things and taking advantage of the level design than relying on gear alone.

You'd think MMORPG devs would learn something from that.

Meh. Moral of the post - That Mario comparison was a whole load of bs.

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by 3-4thElf

I never got rewarded for finding Princess Peach, but it sure was nicer than being told she was in another castle.

My guess is repetition is up to the player. 

I know I don't plan to see any instance more than twice if I can help it after token grinding in WoW to the point where I miss random drops from epic monsters in EQ1.

 

lol wow cool comparison there. What about Contra and the awesome weapons you would get by getting further into the game. What about how much easier levels were when you had said weapon upgrades and you hadn't died in a few levels.

 

Out of place comparisons make for a strong arguement.....

You know I never cared for the upgrades in Contra. I liked the rapid fire version of the main gun but I found the game was actually easier by learning how to dodge things and taking advantage of the level design than relying on gear alone.

You'd think MMORPG devs would learn something from that.

Meh. Moral of the post - That Mario comparison was a whole load of bs.

I'm starting to think you never made it to 8-3.

Originally posted by Tayah

To me it means I can log in and not feel like it's a second job like I felt in WoW, with dailies/raiding. I can finally sit down at the end of an evening and just have fun playing, knowing I don't have to do the gear grind ever in GW2. I can actually have fun again like I use to with DAOC, AC1 and UO.

Agreed.

Though the gear grind was fun for a while (got old real quick) in WOW, it did feel like a second job and I was always behind the curve anytime I was away from WOW for 1-2 weeks. With GW2, that won't be the case, I can log on for 1-2 hrs after a long day at work and just enjoy (not grinding for gear) the game with my friends. Being able to log in and out at the individual's pace I think will be something which will win many thousands (if not millions) of players; just my two cents.

Originally posted by helthros

lol I see all this hubris about how having fun just for the sake of having fun is above and beyond doing things to get gear. However, I'm forced to ask myself, how does attaining gear limit the individuals with this seemingly misplaced hubris from having fun in games where getting gear is a potential reward? It seems like a load of BS if you ask me.

If it's about having fun to have fun, then shoudln't attaining the gear be completely beneath you? Yet most find the energy and time to complain about "needing" to obtain the gear. Well, what about "needing" to repeat content just for the sake of having fun? Can't you still do that in games with gear treadmills? Again, seems like a load of BS.

I believe you are mistaken in believing that it has to be one or the other; either there's no gear progression (just for fun) or you're just grinding for gear (never ending treadmill). In the case of GW2, I believe there are trying to find a happy middle between the two (prob more on the side of not grinding for gear).

People enjoy different aspects of games. Some enjoy spending hours without end grinding for gear while others, not caring much for (or not having the time for) "gear grinding" are looking more to spend one to two hours with their friends simply having fun running around in an mmo killing stuff (or other players in wvw) or accomplishing quests/hearts/goals. In short, hard-core players vs casual players.

By a large margin, the vast majority of mmo players are not hard-core players (though they be the most vocal) but the casual players. Not only is gear grinding not a philosophy espoused by Anet, but I believe they purposefully were/are trying to create a game where most people (both hard-core and casuals) can play together while both having fun. Obviously Anet has to make a profit so appealing to the elite few (hard-core gamers) is not economically wise.

Just because people say they want to have fun for the sake of having fun does not mean they do not care about gear stats, it just means they prob don't care to spend tons of hours repeating the same dungeon looking for the 0.5% elite drop. For those that do care about gear stats, I believe they can still have plenty of fun in GW2; they'll just have to get used to not constantly be having to run on the treadmill... who knows, maybe they'll like it! :-)

Cheers ya'll... see ya'll on BWE3 and on August 25th!! :-)

Originally posted by helthros

Originally posted by Sideras

I'd rather it simply is fun and something I look forward to doing again because it was a fun challenge instead of doing it because the game forces me to do it as it is the most optimal way of progressing.

I have a job thank you, I don't need to come home for more.

I don't fucking get the thing with these boards and the constant need to find something to complain about in GW2. Are you playing the devils advocate here? Because that would make sense.

So what's the point of you complaining about a feature you like not making it into the game? You obviously dislike Anets design philosophy, that should be enough for you to look the other way and go play something else.

 

Isn't the game still forcing you to do it as a means to have fun in the game? Sure, you don't have the "forced progression". But you still have the forced repetition in order to maintain some level of enjoyment in the game.

 

All you did was take out the carrot, but you still have the treadmill... Can you honestly pretend like that's better?

I don't understand what you're saying. It seems to me you're twisting things to have it your way.

For most MMOs, gear is important in order to progress (i.e. enter the next tier dungeon). I am the type of gamer who wants to see and explore places. During WoW TBC I wanted to see all endgame raids, but I can't go straight to Black Temple without gearing up for it first. If I happen to find a group of people who are already geared for it, or are already in T6 and are willing to run it just for that legendary blade, then lucky me. If not, I would have to repeatedly run Tempest Keep so I can complete T5, or something close to that to qualify me for BT. In my case, GEAR was never my source of fun. It was exploration, but in most endgame cases, this is hindered by GEAR. I had no choice but to join in on the threadmill until I finally said to myself "I'm tired of this, goodbye."

Guild Wars 2 works well for me because not only I need a smaller number of people to group with, we also don't have to wait for a tank or a healer. I just gather 4 friends and we're good to go. Nothing else hinders my desire for exploration, certainly not GEAR. It's true that in this essence, I still am chasing a "carrot". My carrot is exploration. As long as there are places to go and I have friends whom I can venture those places with, I will play. If I feel satisfied running a particular dungeon, I can move on to the next. I am not forced to play a dungeon any more than I am willing to. I can move on when I want to.

Also GW2 isn't forcing players to "do dungeons" as a means to have fun in the game. People who have grown accustomed to gear threadmill will surely have a hard time figuring GW2 out. These people need to understand that not ALL MMOs have to feed people with gear in order for them to enjoy. There simply are people who are tired of that. You DON'T have to do dungeons if running dungeons isn't a source of fun for you.

A "carrot" always exists in every game. It's the thing each player strive for. In MMOs, this is most usually gear, and best gears are usually obtained through PVE raids and PVP. GW2 removed the gear "carrot" by making gear stats almost insignificant. Now only people who are not really looking for powerup dresses will really enjoy this game.

Whats the point of me playing Skyrim as a stealth character trying to go through dungeons without ever being spotted and getting all stealth kills? Doesnt change what loot I get and I can easily get skill ups else where. The point, is its fun. The moment you're doing something for gear but you're not having fun, then honestly you've lost sight on the point of the game.

To any that argue that ANET is breaking the mold for the sake of fun I believe is a straight misfire of the truth. ANET decided for a game based upon micro payments over the gear grind subscription model is all and in the end for this type of game to work as a business it has to generate cash. Unless I am not seeing something it seems the game will still have a type of grind just a horse of a different color.

Originally posted by Kendane

Whats the point of me playing Skyrim as a stealth character trying to go through dungeons without ever being spotted and getting all stealth kills? Doesnt change what loot I get and I can easily get skill ups else where. The point, is its fun. The moment you're doing something for gear but you're not having fun, then honestly you've lost sight on the point of the game.

as the saying goes " if it aint fun don't do it"

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by GosuRusha510

What's the point of doing instances at low level and at 80 over and over, if gear doesn't matter?

What's the point of playing video games over and over if none of your in-game accomplishments matter in real life?

One might argue real life accomplishments don't mean anything either.

Originally posted by Sojhin

To any that argue that ANET is breaking the mold for the sake of fun I believe is a straight misfire of the truth. ANET choose micro payments over the gear grind subscription model is all and in the end for this type of game to work as a business it has to generate cash. Unless I am not seeing something it seems the game will still have a type of grind just a horse of a different color.

You definitely aren't seeing something

First off:  The game is B2P, so their primary generation of cash is through box sales.  This makes microtransactions less of a must as they are in F2P games, but still of secondary importance.  Thus the cash shop is filled with nothing but vanity stuff, account services, and some convenience things for ingame that don't influence the game in any large way.  What's better, is that a player doesn't ever have to spend a dime on these items, because they will just buy gems with gold off of other players if they want to. 

Secondly: The only grinds in this game are optional, and that is what a lot of people are missing.  In other games to stay in the loop you have to grind for stats.  In this game its purely cosmetic so you don't fall behind, if you want to chase the carrot it is definitely there, but there is no forced carrot chase in this game like in others.  That is the major difference, chase the cosmetic gear carrot if you like grinding for hard items, yet if you don't care for grinding then you are at no disadvantage to simply not do it.  That is definitely breaking the mold. 

it feels as though a lot of people are going to be entering the world of GW2 and playing the game with the wrong mindset :( This is quite disappointing and I pity those who won't be able to enjoy this game properly with the numerous things it has to offer.