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Hardware  » The keyboard needs to be retired.

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97 posts found
  Hrimnir

Elite Member

Joined: 5/24/10
Posts: 1518

7/12/12 5:38:09 PM#21

I love these posts where console guys try to justify their inability or lack of willpower to learn how to properly use a keyboard and mouse for gaming.

The ONLY time i would ever want a controller for a game is for a pure fighting games.  Sports games are so so, its kind of 6 of one half a dozen of the other.  Outside of that, any other game is vastly better with a mouse and keyboard, and some styles of games are completely impossible to play on a console, like RTS games.  Well, RTS games that aren't ultra dumbed down i mean.

"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

- Friedrich Nietzsche

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

 
OP  7/12/12 5:38:48 PM#22
Originally posted by zinnikeys

I retired my controller over 14 years ago.

I'm not talking about K&B vs controllers. 

  pierth

Apprentice Member

Joined: 4/14/06
Posts: 1522

7/12/12 5:40:16 PM#23


Originally posted by blognorg
I'm not telling everything to defenestrate their keyboards or anything. As it stands now, there are peripherals that people use (like the Nostromo) but still use the keyboard for typing. I'm just saying that I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been a standardized gaming devices. You know, one that has gaming in mind for its design, unlike the keyboard. I'm not claiming that the keyboard doesn't do the job most of the time, but I think that we can do better

There are standardized gaming devices, like the Nostromo and others. The thing is they don't come factory direct with PCs like keyboards do and they just aren't as popular. Not everyone cares enough to buy gaming specific peripherals when the standard keyboard and mouse work.

EDIT: actually, on second thought, the standard is the keyboard because every PC gamer has one. There are specialty devices such as the Nostromo because other gamers like you don't see the keyboard as good enough, while a great many others do.

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 871

7/12/12 5:41:15 PM#24

I honestly couldn't imagine having to chat with a controller. While Ventrillo is cool, I don't always feel like logging into it and if I am wandering around and meet someone, I am not going to give out the vent password to a stranger.

So unless there is no chatting in the MMO, I don't see how you are going to make the game better without a keyboard.

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

 
OP  7/12/12 5:43:57 PM#25
Originally posted by Hrimnir

I love these posts where console guys try to justify their inability or lack of willpower to learn how to properly use a keyboard and mouse for gaming.

The ONLY time i would ever want a controller for a game is for a pure fighting games.  Sports games are so so, its kind of 6 of one half a dozen of the other.  Outside of that, any other game is vastly better with a mouse and keyboard, and some styles of games are completely impossible to play on a console, like RTS games.  Well, RTS games that aren't ultra dumbed down i mean.

I'll say this again... I'm not comparing K&B to contollers. I'm talking specifically about keyboards four-button fuctionality for movement. Just because people are used to it, doesn't make it better. Analogs are objectively better. There is variance in the magnitude and more than eight directions. If someone can't utilize those features, that it doesn't make it inferior.

  BrainDeadG

Apprentice Member

Joined: 7/07/12
Posts: 31

7/12/12 5:44:34 PM#26

Hmm makes me wonder why some guys off Halo are so skilled using a controller? They still have to aim and fight one another in PVP combat.

GW2 interface is pretty much set-up that it can be used with a controller with all the pre-made skills. Maybe it'll fix that crazy camera angles.

 

I've suggested it on their official forums, you might want to suggest it as well too OP.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 14454

7/12/12 5:46:35 PM#27
Originally posted by blognorg

 You know, one that has gaming in mind for its design, unlike the keyboard. I'm not claiming that the keyboard doesn't do the job most of the time, but I think that we can do better.

Keyboards are designed to give you quick, easy access to a lot of keys.  This can either be with two hands (QWERTY part) or one hand (10-key part).  If you need quick, easy access to a lot of keys for the purpose of playing a game, I don't see what makes that fundamentally different from needing quick, easy access to a lot of keys for some other purpose.

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

 
OP  7/12/12 5:48:04 PM#28
Originally posted by pierth

 


Originally posted by blognorg
I'm not telling everything to defenestrate their keyboards or anything. As it stands now, there are peripherals that people use (like the Nostromo) but still use the keyboard for typing. I'm just saying that I'm a little surprised that there hasn't been a standardized gaming devices. You know, one that has gaming in mind for its design, unlike the keyboard. I'm not claiming that the keyboard doesn't do the job most of the time, but I think that we can do better

 

There are standardized gaming devices, like the Nostromo and others. The thing is they don't come factory direct with PCs like keyboards do and they just aren't as popular. Not everyone cares enough to buy gaming specific peripherals when the standard keyboard and mouse work.

EDIT: actually, on second thought, the standard is the keyboard because every PC gamer has one. There are specialty devices such as the Nostromo because other gamers like you don't see the keyboard as good enough, while a great many others do.

That's exactly my point. The keybopard is just "good enough". It seems like we can break that barrier and aspire to plain ol' "good".

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

 
OP  7/12/12 5:49:36 PM#29
Originally posted by Johnie-Marz

I honestly couldn't imagine having to chat with a controller. While Ventrillo is cool, I don't always feel like logging into it and if I am wandering around and meet someone, I am not going to give out the vent password to a stranger.

So unless there is no chatting in the MMO, I don't see how you are going to make the game better without a keyboard.

I'm not talking about using a ctonroller instead. The analog doesn't have to be synonymous with the controller. I'm talking about replaceing the keyboard, as a gaming perihperal, with something better.

  syntax42

Advanced Member

Joined: 3/30/07
Posts: 1288

7/12/12 5:51:02 PM#30

I have been gaming for almost five years with my Ideazon Fang gamepad.  Yes, I know they were bought out by SteelSeries or changed their name or whatever.  I haven't seen any replacement for it on the horizion, and it is nearing the end of its life. 

 

What I really want is a gamepad that lets me reliably push almost as many buttons as the average MMO requires.  Just looking at screenshots of raiding for most games makes me wonder how people keep track of so many abilities and consumables.  I can do it too, but I dislike the reaction delay of using a mouse to try to click one interface button in a crowd of many buttons.  Being able to reach over 30 non-movement keys with my left hand has definitely made a difference in the way I play games.

 

I just wonder why products like the Fang gamepad are not more prevalent on the market.  Anyone who plays PC games should have something more ergonomic than a keyboard, not just for enhancing their reaction times in MMOs. 

  Xzen

Novice Member

Joined: 5/01/06
Posts: 2642

A sword is never a killer, it is a tool in the killer's hands.
- Seneca

7/12/12 5:51:48 PM#31

All you anti-transhuman scaredy cats can hold on to your keyboards. The rest of us can use this.

  Quizzical

Guide

Joined: 12/11/08
Posts: 14454

7/12/12 5:53:37 PM#32
Originally posted by blognorg

I'll say this again... I'm not comparing K&B to contollers. I'm talking specifically about keyboards four-button fuctionality for movement. Just because people are used to it, doesn't make it better. Analogs are objectively better. There is variance in the magnitude and more than eight directions. If someone can't utilize those features, that it doesn't make it inferior.

Keyboard lets you go in an exact direction at an exact speed.  That makes it pretty easy to make precise, delicate movements of the sort that are completely impossible with a thumbstick.  The latter only lets you go kind of close to where you wanted to go.

Microsoft originally intended to make Xbox live allow console players to play against PC players.  They found that good PC players completely slaughtered even the best console players, as thumbsticks aren't nearly as effective as keyboard and mouse.  That led Microsoft to abandon the cross-platform effort, in order to protect console players from PC players.  Console players may accept that a game has awkward controls that gimp everyone, but PC players will never accept that.

  Vaross

MMORPG.COM Staff

Joined: 6/21/12
Posts: 426

7/12/12 5:53:50 PM#33

Moved this thread to Hardware.   The discussion can continue here.

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

 
OP  7/12/12 5:54:05 PM#34
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by blognorg

 You know, one that has gaming in mind for its design, unlike the keyboard. I'm not claiming that the keyboard doesn't do the job most of the time, but I think that we can do better.

Keyboards are designed to give you quick, easy access to a lot of keys.  This can either be with two hands (QWERTY part) or one hand (10-key part).  If you need quick, easy access to a lot of keys for the purpose of playing a game, I don't see what makes that fundamentally different from needing quick, easy access to a lot of keys for some other purpose.

Yes, a keyboard does have all of that, but it's not optimal. Personally, I can have more buttons, that are more easily accessible on a contoller, but I'm not really making the controller vs K&B argument. My point is that it's not terribly difficult to match the amount of accessable buttons that a keyboard has. The Nostromo has enough buttons for most games that I play, and it has software that alllows for alts and such, if I need. Heck, the Nostromo would be pretty damn good if it had an analog... and MMOs that actually supported it.

  zinnikeys

Novice Member

Joined: 9/05/07
Posts: 43

7/12/12 5:55:18 PM#35
Originally posted by blognorg
Originally posted by zinnikeys

I retired my controller over 14 years ago.

I'm not talking about K&B vs controllers. 

Yea, but you are saying keyboards need to be retired. Sorry, but you can keep your stick. I love my keyboard.

And apparently so do a lot of this site's members.

  Damon

Advanced Member

Joined: 10/04/03
Posts: 157

7/12/12 5:55:28 PM#36

 

Keyboards are an integral part of communication in our world.  Over the years, keyboards evolved from clunky typewriter buttons, to a slightly less clunky form factor, with variations in layout, and now we have a consumer market catering to gamers.  Companies design numerous keyboards specifically for gaming, with different options (ex: macros, built-in LCD, key action), so that we can choose what is best for ourselves.
 
While the keyboard is an effective tool for gaming in general, the ease at which we can control avatars in a game is exponentially increased with the inclusion of a gaming mouse that we also chose to best suit our needs.  Furthermore, we are not limited to a keyboard and mouse for gaming controls.  For example, joysticks may be used for the flight aspect of a game alone, providing a more fluid control for flight, and the user can use the keyboard and mouse for all other aspects of that game if he/she desires.  It's up to us, as individuals, to choose how we wish to interact with a game.  If you prefer a controller, then use a controller.  There is no need to limit gamers to the use of one device alone.  And if you are anonyed that a game doesn't cater to analog control, then write to the studios that create the games you love and politely inform them why you think it is important.

  Dragonantis

Novice Member

Joined: 12/16/10
Posts: 973

7/12/12 5:56:18 PM#37

The keyboard will remain for decades to come, sure it will go through some evolutions as computers evolve but the simple efficent system will remain.

  Johnie-Marz

Novice Member

Joined: 11/19/09
Posts: 871

7/12/12 5:57:54 PM#38

Well, to take this from a new angle. I hope your right, I hope in the future they come up with something better than the standard keyboard, a device that allows us ease of character movement, the abity to chat, type and scroll through menus all while replacing the standard mouse and keyboard. We could call it the Unobtainium 5000.

I am sure when it comes out, everyone gamer will slap their heads and think, why couldn't i have come up with that,  I'd be a millionaire.

  blognorg

Spotlight Poster

Joined: 2/25/11
Posts: 650

 
OP  7/12/12 6:00:28 PM#39
Originally posted by Quizzical
Originally posted by blognorg

I'll say this again... I'm not comparing K&B to contollers. I'm talking specifically about keyboards four-button fuctionality for movement. Just because people are used to it, doesn't make it better. Analogs are objectively better. There is variance in the magnitude and more than eight directions. If someone can't utilize those features, that it doesn't make it inferior.

Keyboard lets you go in an exact direction at an exact speed.  That makes it pretty easy to make precise, delicate movements of the sort that are completely impossible with a thumbstick.  The latter only lets you go kind of close to where you wanted to go.

Microsoft originally intended to make Xbox live allow console players to play against PC players.  They found that good PC players completely slaughtered even the best console players, as thumbsticks aren't nearly as effective as keyboard and mouse.  That led Microsoft to abandon the cross-platform effort, in order to protect console players from PC players.  Console players may accept that a game has awkward controls that gimp everyone, but PC players will never accept that.

I read about that. It was because of Halo... and it had to do with the precision of a mouse, not movement. Not being able to properly use an analog stick doesn't make it inferior WASD. Similarly, I can't draw, so a bunch of fancy pencils would only make things harder for me. I know several people that don't like to use a mouse for FPSs, but it doesn't make analog sticks any more accurate.

  TheLizardbones

Apprentice Member

Joined: 6/11/08
Posts: 10959

I think with my heart and move with my head.-Kongos

7/12/12 6:00:42 PM#40

My idea is to take something like the Microsoft Strategic Command, but increase the number of keys available on the top and sides. It's taking a lot of soldering though. I wish somebody like Razer would come out with such a thing so I didn't have to make this.

I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.

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