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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Unskilled Players

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239 posts found
  Epicent

Novice Member

Joined: 9/16/10
Posts: 670

Die clickers Die!!!

7/11/12 3:29:05 PM#161
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by Irus
Originally posted by SirFubar

Fixed it for you. And no I'm not kidding, lots of people think they are good when in fact, they're not. You are skilled when you play and won or put up a good fight against the best.

By that logic, only Olympic athletes are worth anything.

Sorry, there's actually a pretty wide range for the concept of "skilled", usually most people who put in the time are going to be relatively skilled, but not at all necessarily the best. A person with a hobby of making model airplanes will eventually become skilled at it. That doesn't mean they're a champion of model airplane building. I don't know where this recent metric came from, it was never the case.

I also really doubt you're Olympic athlete level, tbh...

Being skilled and being able to do something is 2 different things... Comparing something competitive with a hobby is nonsense to me. And yes in the Olympic, only the Olympic athletes are woth anything, else from your logic, anyone who is doing any kind of Olympic sports and put some time in it could become a Olympic athletes which is not the case at all.

 

In gaming the word skill usually mean the guy who is better than the others. You can think that you have some sort of skill in lets say starcraft, but in reality when you compare yourself to the top players, you don't have any skills because you can't compete with them. If you can compete with the best, you are skilled, if not then your just an average joe.


This statement is flawed so badly that I can't even bring myself to point them all out.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

7/11/12 3:31:17 PM#162
Originally posted by SirFubar

In gaming the word skill usually mean the guy who is better than the others. You can think that you have some sort of skill in lets say starcraft, but in reality when you compare yourself to the top players, you don't have any skills because you can't compete with them. If you can compete with the best, you are skilled, if not then your just an average joe.

 Like anything else, there's a spectrum here.  Let's use (American) football.

The kid who always wins in sandlot football is more skilled/physically able/what have you than the other kids.

When he gets to highschool, he might end up on the bench.  By highschool standards, not skilled.  ... but maybe he's the best player on the team.  He's more skilled than the other players.

That doesn't mean he's the best highschool player around.

... and the same thing happens when he moves on to college, and with pro football.

At each level, people who were previously the most skilled around discover either that they're worse than other people, average, or still the most skilled.  This happens in all activities, and is why many contests have various levels.  Just because a kid can't beat a chess grandmaster doesn't mean he's an average joe.  Skill is a spectrum, not an absolute yes/no question.

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

7/11/12 3:31:34 PM#163

^

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by Angier2758

Dating profile: "Grandmaster at SC2, have highly accurate APM."

Responses:  0

We should try to see how many responses these guys get:

http://thestar.smgmedia.topscms.com/images/b5/f8/20aa80e547b48f096a6d571c136b.jpeg

(weightlifting champion)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/2012-heavy-medal-london/Images/Mangold_Chasing_Gold_0c4ed-063.jpg?uuid=tYQUcMqnEeGuqDTi5H0VcQ

(Olympic weightlifter)

 

I guess skill is a popularity contest now.

It's pathetic how little you have to show for yourself that your main metric of anything is the worthless approval of some random group of people. I really wonder if a person with such a mindset can possibly achieve anything.

"Oh, I shouldn't do that, a girl won't like me." "Oh, that's worthless, it doesn't make girls like me."

Seriously?

  BeansnBread

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/19/06
Posts: 5544

7/11/12 3:34:57 PM#164
Originally posted by SirFubar
Originally posted by Irus
Originally posted by SirFubar

Fixed it for you. And no I'm not kidding, lots of people think they are good when in fact, they're not. You are skilled when you play and won or put up a good fight against the best.

By that logic, only Olympic athletes are worth anything.

Sorry, there's actually a pretty wide range for the concept of "skilled", usually most people who put in the time are going to be relatively skilled, but not at all necessarily the best. A person with a hobby of making model airplanes will eventually become skilled at it. That doesn't mean they're a champion of model airplane building. I don't know where this recent metric came from, it was never the case.

I also really doubt you're Olympic athlete level, tbh...

Being skilled and being able to do something is 2 different things... Comparing something competitive with a hobby is nonsense to me. And yes in the Olympic, only the Olympic athletes are woth anything, else from your logic, anyone who is doing any kind of Olympic sports and put some time in it could become a Olympic athletes which is not the case at all.

 

In gaming the word skill usually mean the guy who is better than the others. You can think that you have some sort of skill in lets say starcraft, but in reality when you compare yourself to the top players, you don't have any skills because you can't compete with them. If you can compete with the best, you are skilled, if not then your just an average joe.

If you are Diamond League, you are more skilled than Platinum, Gold, Silver and Bronze League players. If you are Silver League, you are more skilled than people in Bronze League.

 

It's not, If you aren't a grandmaster, you are average. Actually, this is the breakdown in Starcraft 2.

 

 

Ratio of Players per League
League Targeted Ratio of Active Players
Grandmaster 200 players
Master 2%
Diamond 18%
Platinum 20%
Gold 20%
Silver 20%
Bronze

20%

 

So somewhere in the Gold League, you are an average Joe...................................................

 
Damn, why does this even have to be explained? This is 2nd grader stuff. If I beat 10 people in tetherball and 9 people beat me, I am more skilled than half the people at tetherball. I don't have to show olympic level tetherball skills to compare my skill level to other people.

SWTOR is the greatest mmo ever!

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

7/11/12 3:37:43 PM#165
Originally posted by Irus

^

Thank you very much.

Originally posted by Angier2758

Dating profile: "Grandmaster at SC2, have highly accurate APM."

Responses:  0

We should try to see how many responses these guys get:

http://thestar.smgmedia.topscms.com/images/b5/f8/20aa80e547b48f096a6d571c136b.jpeg

(weightlifting champion)

http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/WashingtonPost/Content/Blogs/2012-heavy-medal-london/Images/Mangold_Chasing_Gold_0c4ed-063.jpg?uuid=tYQUcMqnEeGuqDTi5H0VcQ

(Olympic weightlifter)

 

I guess skill is a popularity contest now.

It's pathetic how little you have to show for yourself that your main metric of anything is the worthless approval of some random group of people. I really wonder if a person with such a mindset can possibly achieve anything.

"Oh, I shouldn't do that, a girl won't like me." "Oh, that's worthless, it doesn't make girls like me."

Seriously?

 Let's be fair.  I'm pretty sure when this girl mentions her insanely high APM, most guys dump her like a hot potato. :(

Damn you Korean girls for playing Starcraft and becoming physically so unappealing that I vomit in my mouth every time I think about those fast fingers. :(

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

7/11/12 3:38:28 PM#166
Originally posted by KingGator

Amazed that someone who cares so much about mmorpgs as to compare it to serious endeavors found someone willing to mate with him..............

Oh, look, another one of those "if it doesn't make someone want to mate with me, it must be worthless".

You people need to have a bowl of Ralph Waldo Emerson poured on you or something.

  KingGator

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 474

7/11/12 3:40:17 PM#167
Originally posted by Irus
Originally posted by KingGator

Amazed that someone who cares so much about mmorpgs as to compare it to serious endeavors found someone willing to mate with him..............

Oh, look, another one of those "if it doesn't make someone want to mate with me, it must be worthless".

You people need to have a bowl of Ralph Waldo Emerson poured on you or something.

That isn't exactly what I was getting at, and in any event dude has insulted me repeatedly, a little get back wasn't all that far out of line. And I found Emerson to be over rated and a bit of a bore, liked Dylan Thomas alot better.

  Requiamer

Novice Member

Joined: 5/20/05
Posts: 2054

7/11/12 3:41:10 PM#168

 


Originally posted by KingGator

Originally posted by Epicent

Originally posted by KingGator Alright, I have to get back to work, fine I'll admit that mmorpgs require as much skill as couch sitting and eating contest, happy?   Peace :)
Guaranteed like half this forum could beat the best quarterback in the world in a pvp match if he would log in right now........just saying.......but wait.........shouldn't he win since he is so obviously superiorly skilled than us. Your stance and inability to admit when you are clearly wrong reminds me of my little girl.........shes seven.
I just admitted that there is as much skill in a couch sitting contest or an eating contest as there is in an mmorpg, what more do you want from me?   Just because being l33t is a big part of your identity this has become a huge windmill for you don quixote.   Amazed that someone who cares so much about mmorpgs as to compare it to serious endeavors found someone willing to mate with him..............

 

So i guess if mmorpg take as much skill as sitting in a couch, and since it's perfectly fine by you, then we should all ask to have stupid mmos and still continue to have even more stupid and skilless mmo in the future? Is it what you are trying to defend here?

 
Can't you see you are just digging yourself a huge hole here.

  KingGator

Novice Member

Joined: 4/30/06
Posts: 474

7/11/12 3:41:36 PM#169

Anyways, I am seriously ejecting from this thrad, not even going to check it again as I am sure further responses are just going to lead to banning............so flame away by all means!

  Irus

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 780

7/11/12 3:41:45 PM#170
Originally posted by Meowhead

 Let's be fair.  I'm pretty sure when this girl mentions her insanely high APM, most guys dump her like a hot potato. :(

Damn you Korean girls for playing Starcraft and becoming physically so unappealing that I vomit in my mouth every time I think about those fast fingers. :(

Haha. I don't disagree with the point you're making, there are certainly many attractive gamers, but I just wanted to highlight that measuring skill and achievement by how attractive someone is really shows that the person in question probably never tried to achieve anything, IMO, and doesn't know what that means. And most people who achieved things do get SO's just fine, in large part because of that fact and they don't have to rely on genes, lies, or the desperation of another.

  User Deleted
7/11/12 3:44:44 PM#171
Originally posted by Talketzanto

Let me start off by saying im looking forward to a skill based game. No more hearing "you suck baddie, your geared out". But I was wondering how the unskilled population (probably 35%) would take the game.

 

Now everyone has been in a guild where you got a few unskilled players (downright horrible) in the guild at pvp. Of course you would never say that to them or hurt there feelings but you still think it. Well alot of them can still be commited to the game and work hard to get gear because they really want to be better but unfortunatly you can only learn so much "skill" the rest is pretty much flat out talent for games.  I feel like it does hurt those players alot because they are kinda stuck in that no mans land. At least if they got gear they could become almost average and contribute to a team and feel like they arn't as bad as they are (kinda a false sense of acheivement) but its going to be hard for them if they have no way getting better.

 

Whats everyone's thoughts on this? Will it force the "unskilled" players out of the game?

Well first I would think that those players who don't learn from their mistakes wouldn't really be able to level well in this game as you have to use mechanics like dodge and CC in order to survive most fights. They would probably never reach level 30 unless it was by some miracle which as anyone knows is the starting point really of the extremely fun and group content. Those that do somehow survive all the way to 80 will most likely have gotten there via a friend leveling them or a service which i'm sure will occur it always does even on sub only games.

The thing tho about being level 80 or having the best gear won't be necessary to complete content, as everyones level gets modified when in dungeons and everyones level gets modified in zones, so being leet will mean something entirely different then before.

  Ezhae

Novice Member

Joined: 9/03/06
Posts: 734

7/11/12 3:46:17 PM#172

To be perfectly honest..if someone complains about lack of skill in quick-join sPvP they most likely suck themselves, else they would be playing tournaments. Simple as that. Same time, people that do lack skill will most likely know it and avoid tournament games. So, where exactly is the problem? 

In pub games the expectations are much lower. No one should give a damn whenever one is a "pro" or "newb". That mode is there for fun, practice and fooling around. Taking it seriously is beyond stupid. 

  Redemp

Novice Member

Joined: 7/30/05
Posts: 1058

If I didn't respond to you, chances are you're a idiot.

7/11/12 3:53:11 PM#173
These topics .... always full of hot air. Some day those of you who's understanding of pvp is limited to WoW to now, will come to realize that the margin of "skill" is a lot smaller than you think. There is one thing that the majority of Mmo players have always had in common, the desire to progress themselves and their avatar. If you think you have some inborn talent, some god given savant like ability to be a master at PvP .... you're mistaken, there are millions of you. Of those millions everyone is progressing, adapting, and refining their "skill". By all means though, beat your chest with subtle threads to promote your Ego, the majority of mmo gamers will continue to do what they have always done... Progress in game.
  RoyalPhunk

Novice Member

Joined: 1/11/11
Posts: 181

7/11/12 3:55:42 PM#174

Lots of butt devestated people in here... I must have missed some decent trollin.

OP is correct in asking this. There WILL be people that have spent years hiding behind a gear gap that will be out in the open all of the sudden having to actually apply skill and tactics to combat. Many of them are baddies and will get frustrated and blame everyone and anyone but themselves in the forums and will call for nerfs to soothe their egos, that's what baddies do. It is to be expected.

There is plenty of PVE for those frustrated with PVP.

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

7/11/12 3:57:26 PM#175
Originally posted by Irus

Haha. I don't disagree with the point you're making, there are certainly many attractive gamers, but I just wanted to highlight that measuring skill and achievement by how attractive someone is really shows that the person in question probably never tried to achieve anything, IMO, and doesn't know what that means. And most people who achieved things do get SO's just fine, in large part because of that fact and they don't have to rely on genes, lies, or the desperation of another.

 Well, really my point was more that skill is rarely, if EVER the deciding factor... no matter the skill at all... in whether or not people end up attractive.  It's only tangential.

More important things are 'looking good' (Which I guess you could consider a skill, with applying makeup and all, but nobody ever says 'I hooked up with that girl because her cosmetics skills are out of this world'.) (Alternatively, you could become better looking through application of skills, like exercising through sports)...

... having lots of money (Which you can EARN with skills.  This is what makes pro football players so attractive... not so much the skill so much as the fact they've finagled this into Money.)

.... sharing similar interests (Oh, I like fighting games, and you're a tournament winner in street fighter, that's kind of hot)

... and so on.

I'm sure if they do the cash tournaments and somebody wins 20,000 dollars or whatever, that will, in fact, be a case of somebody using GW2 skills to make themselves more attractive. :D

Same as two people hooking up in GW2 because they respect each other's skills and are sharing a hobby.  It's a silly way to first meet, but no sillier than many OTHER ways people meet, especially on the internet.

  dageeza

Advanced Member

Joined: 8/14/04
Posts: 580

7/11/12 4:00:46 PM#176

Seriously OP 35% unskilled?

Guess im just one of those gamers that likes to think all gamers play to have fun and part of the fun is becoming as skilled as possible and competent with your chosen class..

Like anet says "we feel our combat system is easy to learn yet hard to master"..

Over time most players that are enjoying the game and playing it will become at least somewhat skilled and formidable...

 

Playing GW2..

  Meowhead

Tipster

Joined: 1/31/09
Posts: 3728

7/11/12 4:03:44 PM#177
Originally posted by Redemp
These topics .... always full of hot air. Some day those of you who's understanding of pvp is limited to WoW to now, will come to realize that the margin of "skill" is a lot smaller than you think. There is one thing that the majority of Mmo players have always had in common, the desire to progress themselves and their avatar. If you think you have some inborn talent, some god given savant like ability to be a master at PvP .... you're mistaken, there are millions of you. Of those millions everyone is progressing, adapting, and refining their "skill". By all means though, beat your chest with subtle threads to promote your Ego, the majority of mmo gamers will continue to do what they have always done... Progress in game.

 I've explained why I like sPvP in GW2.  It's putting the contest in terms that apply more towards me.

Usually PvP in MMOs, the most important factor for quite a long time is simply that.  Time involved.  (As demonstrated by my example of me switching my brand new character with the best player in an MMO.  Give us each an hour to play our new character, and in most MMOs I could still completely destroy the 'best player'.  Obviously time was a more important factor than skill, and continues to be so until you get closer to even gear at the end of the game)

I don't have much time.  Therefore I want to fight in a skill based MMO not because I think I'm some paragon of skill, but because I want to compete in a contest where I have more of a chance (I can always work at improving my skill, but improving the amount of spare time I have requires more unpleasant decisions like quitting my job)

You don't have to be convinced you're some sort of uber skillmaster to prefer skill over time. :)

Just because a kid in a wheelchair wants to play chess rather than rock wall climbing doesn't mean he's a chess god, it just might mean he feels better about his odds competing in one thing over another. :)

  Vunak23

Novice Member

Joined: 11/27/10
Posts: 659

In your house Eatin' your Cookies!

7/11/12 4:11:27 PM#178

Time makes you better at everything...So that is a mute point.

 

Do you think Michael Jordan was just amazing at basketball day one and could dunk from the free throw line out the gate? No it took intense training and practice for years and years. Sure he was naturally gifted in basketball but time and practice improved that gift to make him the player he became.

So yes time can be skill. But there are naturally good video game players as well. My little brother for example jumps on games now, he's four and destroys them. Where as I have seen 20-30 year olds sit down at the same game for the first time and be completely stumped.

Games have more dynamics to them then other things as well. You could be amazing at one genre of gaming (FPS) but completely blow at MMO's or RTS. Even genre's have sub categories. You could be amazing in WoW, but jump into Tera and get completely annihilated. Grasping mechanics are a big part of this, and I have seen so many people just never learn them.

 

An example, I hadn't played an FPS in years (since original unreal) and jumped into an FPS/Medieval simulator for the first time and destroyed people that had been playing the game for months on end.

 

There is natural skill in games, just like there is natural skill in everything else. That skill improves with time, just like everything else.

 

There are people arguing the usefullness of this skill... and it can be if you become a professional gamer or just enjoy gaming in general. How useful would being the next Michael Jordan if you never played basketball... or being the next Bruce Lee if you never acted/practiced martial arts etc....Every skill set has there place..its just few ever get the chance to use those in a professional environment.

"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then we’ve got another one that is actually going to be – so we’re going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what we’re targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you can’t hold me to it. But what we’re targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo

  Myria

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/07/09
Posts: 534

7/11/12 4:18:27 PM#179

Wait... I thought the whole point of getting rid of the trinity was that everything would be so easy even a bunch of DPSers could manage it alone :)?

Honestly, I'd ask if people aren't sick of the whole "This is a game for mature and intelligent people, unlike every other game on the planet" schtick, but clearly that isn't, and, sadly, probably never will be, the case.

  Channce

Advanced Member

Joined: 9/22/04
Posts: 540

7/11/12 4:20:40 PM#180

I got bad news for lots of you.  It is not you who decide if you have skill, if you do everyone knows it.

When I said i had "time", i meant virtual time, i got no RL "time" for you.

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