Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

Any MMO that has it's main feature something that's singleplayer doesn't deserve the title of best MMO.

 

There's a reason why we saw public quests, rifts, and dynamic events they are MMO questing that takes advantage of multiple people playing. You can join in on any part of the quest and contribute. They promote group play. They are repeatable.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying quests are bad in TSW but they are not MMO focused (solo instance). You could get the same questing experience playing myst or 7th guest.

A bunch of players who don't care about each other and might as well be npc's is mmo? Not sure if serious. Hell, like i said above, when you take that into acount, you are indeed playign solo since the players around don't matter.

So your entire point is that other players don't matter? Why would you play an MMO? You view them as NPC's?

That's just sad. You should at least look at it as another human being able to log into the game. Man I'm not even going to try and explain why something that is designed to do single vs something designed to be done by many as the basics for a quest system is better in an MMO.

If you play by yourself you go blind, if you do it with a friend or two you have  smoke after.

If you choose to not socialize and only do stuff by yourself of course it will feel like its single player.

Being in a group is more about socializing with the people you are grouped with. If you never say anythng to anyone they all may as well be NPCs.

Originally posted by Veldara

 

Tough to say, not counting the Investigation MIssions I would say TSW and GW2 are equal to each other.  I like not always having to run back to the mission giver and just getting a mail or in TSW's case, a cellphone text.  With the Investigation Missions I can't really say it's the best since I don't know any other MMO that has something like this but I do enjoy doing them immensely.  They offer a unique challenge and I would hope future MMO titles take lessons from this game.

GW2 doesn't, by and large, have real questing.

Quests are:

1) Initiated by the player and start when the player decides they start.

2) are individual to that player.

GW2 events are almost never started by the player and are always shared.  Even the small amount of player initiated escort quests are shared.

You can say blah blah its all the same under the hood anyway.  But timing is everything and the way events works completely changes the timing and takes certain type of control out of the player's hands.  Calling them the same is just being obtuse really.

ARguing the merits of having things initiated by the player under a constrainted system like TSW is fine.  Saying they are essentially the same it not.  Becuase that is very far off the mark.  Simply by changing timing and control of these things you have RADICALLY changed player behavior and psychology even if the under lying task was exactly the same.

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

Any MMO that has it's main feature something that's singleplayer doesn't deserve the title of best MMO.

 

There's a reason why we saw public quests, rifts, and dynamic events they are MMO questing that takes advantage of multiple people playing. You can join in on any part of the quest and contribute. They promote group play. They are repeatable.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying quests are bad in TSW but they are not MMO focused (solo instance). You could get the same questing experience playing myst or 7th guest.

A bunch of players who don't care about each other and might as well be npc's is mmo? Not sure if serious. Hell, like i said above, when you take that into acount, you are indeed playign solo since the players around don't matter.

So your entire point is that other players don't matter? Why would you play an MMO? You view them as NPC's?

That's just sad. You should at least look at it as another human being able to log into the game. Man I'm not even going to try and explain why something that is designed to do single vs something designed to be done by many as the basics for a quest system is better in an MMO.

What? I don't play like that. What i'm trying to say is that, solo quest or group zerg event is the same in the "mmo" part. Players just exist there, they don't care, know or even wnat to know each other. Sure, the group event may have them work towards teh same goal, but in the end, if others where npc's, the end result would be the same.

That's what i mean, in both situations, the players are just like AI, souless. When players acknoledge each other, friendships and communities are built. Did that happen much with Rift, or in GW2 BWE? Nope, just people wo "where there". Compare that to a player driven objective event type..... thing. Alot different from a zerg.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

Any MMO that has it's main feature something that's singleplayer doesn't deserve the title of best MMO.

 

There's a reason why we saw public quests, rifts, and dynamic events they are MMO questing that takes advantage of multiple people playing. You can join in on any part of the quest and contribute. They promote group play. They are repeatable.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying quests are bad in TSW but they are not MMO focused (solo instance). You could get the same questing experience playing myst or 7th guest.

A bunch of players who don't care about each other and might as well be npc's is mmo? Not sure if serious. Hell, like i said above, when you take that into acount, you are indeed playign solo since the players around don't matter.

So your entire point is that other players don't matter? Why would you play an MMO? You view them as NPC's?

That's just sad. You should at least look at it as another human being able to log into the game. Man I'm not even going to try and explain why something that is designed to do single vs something designed to be done by many as the basics for a quest system is better in an MMO.

What? I don't play like that. What i'm trying to say is that, solo quest or group zerg event is the same in the "mmo" part. Players just exist there, they don't care, know or even wnat to know each other. Sure, the group event may have them work towards teh same goal, but in the end, if others where npc's, the end result would be the same.

That's what i mean, in both situations, the players are just like AI, souless. When players acknoledge each other, friendships and communities are built. Did that happen much with Rift, or in GW2 BWE? Nope, just people wo "where there". Compare that to a player driven objective event type..... thing. Alot different from a zerg.

You give MMO NPCs too much credit.  They don't even have AI even if people use the term all the time. 

Also you vastly underestimate non-verbal communication and socialization which is easily more powerful than actually talking.  People's actions matter.  They matter to other people.  People's action with other people turn into interactions.  There is then a feedback process that happens in this cycle.

That is a huge thing whether you realize it or not.

The investigation missions are fun. They can be difficult, but just barely. All you really have to do is type a string of the quest text into the ingame browser and follow the trail. If your an idiot...yes there is a lot of thinking involved. If you have an ounce of intelligence they wont take you more then 5-10 minutes to figure out.

Questing doesn't belong in MMO's for leveling. It rips people away fromt he world there playing in. Stil waiting for some innovation in this area of the MMO genre. Perhaps GW2, I havn't played it yet. But I doubt it will be that revolutionary.

As for the best "questing system" I give it to FFXI hands down. They were well placed, didnt have "!" over there heads or any other indicator a quest was to be done. And if your into invetigation missions from TSW and think there hard...yea no. Some of FFXI's quests were extremely hard to figure out. They demanded a vast knowledge of the game.

They were put in for the correct reasons, to advance your character in a multitude of ways. Story, Reputation, Rank etc. Not go get 5 rats and i'll give you 20 gold and 5k EXP.

The leveling in FFXI was a total grind, but you asked for best "Questing System"  implememation not leveling.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by GamerUntouch

Any MMO that has it's main feature something that's singleplayer doesn't deserve the title of best MMO.

 

There's a reason why we saw public quests, rifts, and dynamic events they are MMO questing that takes advantage of multiple people playing. You can join in on any part of the quest and contribute. They promote group play. They are repeatable.

Now don't get me wrong I'm not saying quests are bad in TSW but they are not MMO focused (solo instance). You could get the same questing experience playing myst or 7th guest.

A bunch of players who don't care about each other and might as well be npc's is mmo? Not sure if serious. Hell, like i said above, when you take that into acount, you are indeed playign solo since the players around don't matter.

So your entire point is that other players don't matter? Why would you play an MMO? You view them as NPC's?

That's just sad. You should at least look at it as another human being able to log into the game. Man I'm not even going to try and explain why something that is designed to do single vs something designed to be done by many as the basics for a quest system is better in an MMO.

What? I don't play like that. What i'm trying to say is that, solo quest or group zerg event is the same in the "mmo" part. Players just exist there, they don't care, know or even wnat to know each other. Sure, the group event may have them work towards teh same goal, but in the end, if others where npc's, the end result would be the same.

That's what i mean, in both situations, the players are just like AI, souless. When players acknoledge each other, friendships and communities are built. Did that happen much with Rift, or in GW2 BWE? Nope, just people wo "where there". Compare that to a player driven objective event type..... thing. Alot different from a zerg.

It's all about how the game is set up. If it's set up around player cooperation, like GW2, you will see complete strangers go out of their way to assist you, very often at the risk of dying themselves. I've had a guy try for about 5 minutes to rez my character in GW2, I died to close to a group of mobs and he kept getting attacked when he would attempt to revive me. He eventually died but he spent a good amount of time trying to revive me and we didn't even know each other.

Then you have games that require minimal player cooperation and are essentially solo games with a bit of forced grouping, like TSW. Where people stand and watch you get obliterated by mobs, instead of helping. I had it happen numerous times. People would just stand there waiting for my character to die instead of helping out.

Having played both games extensively, I can tell you that I am done with the anti-social "MMOs." The way these games are made now is a completely contradiction of the term and while GW2 is far from a perfect game, it is the only MMO released in the last 5+ years that actually is a real multiplayer game.

Originally posted by heartless

 

It's all about how the game is set up. If it's set up around player cooperation, like GW2, you will see complete strangers go out of their way to assist you, very often at the risk of dying themselves. I've had a guy try for about 5 minutes to rez my character in GW2, I died to close to a group of mobs and he kept getting attacked when he would attempt to revive me. He eventually died but he spent a good amount of time trying to revive me and we didn't even know each other.

Then you have games that require minimal player cooperation and are essentially solo games with a bit of forced grouping, like TSW. Where people stand and watch you get obliterated by mobs, instead of helping. I had it happen numerous times. People would just stand there waiting for my character to die instead of helping out.

Having played both games extensively, I can tell you that I am done with the anti-social "MMOs." The way these games are made now is a completely contradiction of the term and while GW2 is far from a perfect game, it is the only MMO released in the last 5+ years that actually is a real multiplayer game.

^ Completely agree with this. In TSW, I have helped people kill mobs when they are getting overwhelmed sometimes, but most times I have actually moved away from players getting mobbed, because 1) I dont get anything for helping them and 2) its a major inconvenience to me if I die. I really have been treating it as an RPG with co-op elements, and I dont feel i've missed out on anything. I chat with my cabal, while i enjoy the story, but I'm thinking if it stays P2P i'll just renew my sub for a month (maybe 2) every 6 months, enjoy the built up new storyline, enjoy the raid or two that came out, then repeat. I just dont feel a desire to level another character when mine can do basically everything I want to :P

Originally posted by dellirious13

Originally posted by heartless

 

It's all about how the game is set up. If it's set up around player cooperation, like GW2, you will see complete strangers go out of their way to assist you, very often at the risk of dying themselves. I've had a guy try for about 5 minutes to rez my character in GW2, I died to close to a group of mobs and he kept getting attacked when he would attempt to revive me. He eventually died but he spent a good amount of time trying to revive me and we didn't even know each other.

Then you have games that require minimal player cooperation and are essentially solo games with a bit of forced grouping, like TSW. Where people stand and watch you get obliterated by mobs, instead of helping. I had it happen numerous times. People would just stand there waiting for my character to die instead of helping out.

Having played both games extensively, I can tell you that I am done with the anti-social "MMOs." The way these games are made now is a completely contradiction of the term and while GW2 is far from a perfect game, it is the only MMO released in the last 5+ years that actually is a real multiplayer game.

^ Completely agree with this. In TSW, I have helped people kill mobs when they are getting overwhelmed sometimes, but most times I have actually moved away from players getting mobbed, because 1) I dont get anything for helping them and 2) its a major inconvenience to me if I die. I really have been treating it as an RPG with co-op elements, and I dont feel i've missed out on anything. I chat with my cabal, while i enjoy the story, but I'm thinking if it stays P2P i'll just renew my sub for a month (maybe 2) every 6 months, enjoy the built up new storyline, enjoy the raid or two that came out, then repeat. I just dont feel a desire to level another character when mine can do basically everything I want to :P

Boom. Right there. Why do you need to get something i the first place? All mission in the same will update if your on the same tier and everybody gets credti, but why can't you just be friendly and nice? Why do you need teh game to tell you how to do anything? How's that socializing?

Also, GW2 is a real multyplayer? Yeah, Rift's community is awesome because of those Rift event huh? I mean, people are defenatly doing them to help out and be nice to each other. it's not like anyone just does them to get their reward.

And GW2 is the same. Players do events to be friendly and socialize alot. In the BWE, people where talking to each other after events all the time. Nobody was running only with RL friends and shunning strangers. Nobody actually refused to chat and talk. It's a reall social mmo with people who truly, deeply care about community and helping out strangers and players.

Did i also say this was sarcasm?

Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

Originally posted by dellirious13

Originally posted by heartless

 

It's all about how the game is set up. If it's set up around player cooperation, like GW2, you will see complete strangers go out of their way to assist you, very often at the risk of dying themselves. I've had a guy try for about 5 minutes to rez my character in GW2, I died to close to a group of mobs and he kept getting attacked when he would attempt to revive me. He eventually died but he spent a good amount of time trying to revive me and we didn't even know each other.

Then you have games that require minimal player cooperation and are essentially solo games with a bit of forced grouping, like TSW. Where people stand and watch you get obliterated by mobs, instead of helping. I had it happen numerous times. People would just stand there waiting for my character to die instead of helping out.

Having played both games extensively, I can tell you that I am done with the anti-social "MMOs." The way these games are made now is a completely contradiction of the term and while GW2 is far from a perfect game, it is the only MMO released in the last 5+ years that actually is a real multiplayer game.

^ Completely agree with this. In TSW, I have helped people kill mobs when they are getting overwhelmed sometimes, but most times I have actually moved away from players getting mobbed, because 1) I dont get anything for helping them and 2) its a major inconvenience to me if I die. I really have been treating it as an RPG with co-op elements, and I dont feel i've missed out on anything. I chat with my cabal, while i enjoy the story, but I'm thinking if it stays P2P i'll just renew my sub for a month (maybe 2) every 6 months, enjoy the built up new storyline, enjoy the raid or two that came out, then repeat. I just dont feel a desire to level another character when mine can do basically everything I want to :P

can't really argue here.. i enjoy TSW very much but overall questing outside dungeons is setup more like a srpg. Many people enjoy the I don't want to talk to others but like to know they are there if I want to type games though. I like both but can't honestly put up any strong counter argument to say GW2 is just setup much better to encourage working with others.

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

if after putting many hours in each game  you really don't know the answer to that I really don't know what to say because it's pretty obvious

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

I'm going to go with Aerowyn on this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about than you obviously haven't played GW2.

Originally posted by Aerowyn

Originally posted by FredomSekerZ

Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

if after putting many hours in each game  you really don't know the answer to that I really don't know what to say because it's pretty obvious

No not really. Like i said, there's always players who are a-holes, some nice, etc. The masses isolate themselves into rl groups and guilds and avoid communication with others, unfortunatly. If open world events changed that, like i said, Rift would be paradise. Also WAR.

When you have dev created objectives, players naturally focus on the end and reward more than the action itself.

For example. An event destroyes a village and it tells you to collect certain supllies to rebuild it, right? What si everybody focused on? That bar over their heads, the end of the event, reaching the linear goal.

Now imagine a player created village is destroyed. There's no event of course. So, players who help out are doig so out of kindness to the players who got it recked. There's no reward or "final goal" to reach. Only an opne ended group experience.

GW2's events make grouping easier and i love that. It's also better in that way than TSW, which i also agree. But, the community isn't much better or more social and friendly than what we have now. It's not bad ok? just not any more social than other mmos.

EDIT: Yes, the "you have no idea hwat you're talking about" thing. *rolls eyes*

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by FredomSekerZ Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

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I'm going to go with Aerowyn on this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about than you obviously haven't played GW2.

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Can we get this thread moved into the GW2 forum please? Don't know why it was erroneously made in TSW forum.  Thanks.

In my opinion they are the best so far. It is the first time EVER where i am excited to see what other missions they put in through there mission packs. 

If Rift, WoW, SWTOR, WAR, AoC etc etc put out mission packs i would be like "what is this shit??" i.e missions in all these game are terrible.

edit while GW2 looks awesome i cant believe someone said SWTOR has better quests HAHAHAHHAHAHAH o god thats funny. 

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by FredomSekerZ Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

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I'm going to go with Aerowyn on this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about than you obviously haven't played GW2.

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lol poor heartless. Aug 25th cant come soon enough... for all of us ;)

 

It will be a glorious day!

It is true then, GW2 will be the second comine, the true MMO. The game where thay have put back MMO into ehm...

I have heard that before.

And, lol, the outrage if it doesn't come true this time.

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by Foomerang

 

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Originally posted by heartless

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Originally posted by FredomSekerZ Hearthless, GW2 is not an anit-social mmo? No MMORPG is like that. All of them have players grouping and chatting and etc, just like TSW. However, i didn't see anything in GW2 that was more multyplayer than TSW beyind inclosed small groups of players who knew each other in the open world. So, how is it different again?

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I'm going to go with Aerowyn on this one. If you don't know what I'm talking about than you obviously haven't played GW2.

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lol poor heartless. Aug 25th cant come soon enough... for all of us ;)

 

It will be a glorious day!

Praise Jebus!!!