In Vanilla WoW usually pugs I formed would stick around a while, part of this was that I was a lock (underplayed at the time) and could summon slackers to the dungeon lol. I remember spending entire Sundays slowly clearing BRD with pugs, explaining fights etc. I like pugs because you can meet amazing players as well, which happened to me a fair amount (got into my guild from pugging with 3 of em). Pugs aren't a bad thing, though I feel like they are better in a game where the world is more open, instead of queue --> dungeon ---> wipe ---> rant. People generally try again when it takes 30+ min just to get to the dungeon.

Originally posted by jfz133

Pugs make you appreciate your friends more.

Yup.  PUGs are great until you realize how much they suck.

I wouldn't ever PUG again.  It's like playing with people that don't want to spend the time to get better, don't have the ability to get better or just don't care in general.

I get that group finders are good for business.  They give players the perception that they can accomplish something, but in reality, it usually takes a couple of nerfs to content that guilds could easily complete if they put their mind to the challenge.

Good article and for me personally, it outlines one of the core problems I have with new MMOs.  MMOs really need to get back to strengthing the community through strong guilds, rather than catering to the weakest players. 

I liked vanilla WoW until I realized what a mindless, farmville click fest it actually was.  TBC was slightly better and didn't take very long to level up, but LK was awful.  Rift was basically more of the same and a huge mistake to play ... especially when Trion started nerfing the generally fun dungeons for pugs in 1.1.

Originally posted by Fadari

I also started gaming with UO, EQ and AC and I do not, in any way believe that a 12 year old could have played UO under the conditions of that game.  You don't have the intellect, thought processes, coordination or even the wisdom/experience at 12 to stay alive long enough to chop wood.  Fanboy's may dream about following some young girl gamer, but keep it real.  Even your knowledge of WoW is limited. You seem to have no idea what raiding was like before dungeon finders were added to some games and thus the dumbing down of content so uncoordinated groups could get their loot.  Just be honest, tell us what you know and really experienced.  Maybe an action screenshot would help prove you were there, then again I suppose you can get those anywhere.  After you've finished an article/blog, maybe a spell and grammar check might be an idea too.

-Lisa (a real female gamer)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fadari-and-Whizbang/103668596424771 

 

I'm not exactly sure what you were trying to achieve by posting a semi-spiteful reply full of false accusations, generalizations, and  shameless self-promotion, but I don't think it is a good way to gain more credibility ~.^

I did post a screenshot. The UO screenshot in this column is mine (my character is in a black robe, on a charger, right below the name "Liverpool" - which is the name of the beetle). Plus, I have uploaded screenshots of UO in my profile. And, actually, I've put together a nice little gallery of a few old screenshots from games I have played over the years http://imgur.com/a/WrVZv.

I find it disappointing that you're so quick to judge a fellow gamer based on their age and gender... especially considering you're the same gender. I've played games with plenty of gamers that were under 18 and, while some were mediocre at games, there were quite a few that were actually pretty good, if not better, than myself and others. The great thing about teenagers gaming is they have more time to learn the game than most adults do... therefore, they have more time to get better at it, get more gear, level faster, etc.

Perhaps next time before you falsely accuse a fellow gamer of lying or not being "real", you should take the time to follow or get to know the person, see what they are like, check out their other sites. If you're too lazy to do that, then perhaps you just shouldn't say anything at all.

Pokket

As someone else said, it isn't that the game is "less difficult" when you play with people who know what they are doing.  It is that most PUG's are just that freaking bad.

In the end, we all have relied on PUG's from time to time.  Unless you are just that lucky that the core people you play with always play at the same time you do.

Me, last MMO I played was POTBS.  I played for the low pop factions most of the game.  So in the end, you had to PUG if you were doing quests or pvp/rvr, there was no way around it.  It really gave me an insight into various different aspects of the game, and helped me adjust tactics with my regular group accordingly.  I loved rolling around in the "A team" 6 man combos we would put out there, but PUG'in it up provided a fun experience.  You also learned how to measure talent.  When you saw someone doing it right, I'd friend them and look for them again sometime.  Hell, several of them ended up wearing the guild tags.  The guild I was a member of I was brought on originally out of one giant PUG that essentially handled fights the way the Freebirds handled wrestling.  (Real old school there!)

In any game I advise at least 10-15% of your playtime being spent pugging.  If you get all butthurt about losing pixels every now and then, you really need to quit being such a wuss.

Originally posted by HurricanePip

 

Good article and for me personally, it outlines one of the core problems I have with new MMOs.  MMOs really need to get back to strengthing the community through strong guilds, rather than catering to the weakest players. 

 

 

Right now MMO companies are still trying to make games for the widest audience possible.  That by nature precludes focusing on strong guilds and community relationships.

Why this is always praised as a sound business move I will never get.  There really is a "by trying to please everybody you please nobody" effect.  And we've seen it with a lot of MMO releases lately (TOR I'm looking at you.) 

Pugs are only crap nowadays because of two reasons, auto group finders, and easy content.

I know you played UO, but if you had played EQ you would understand that pugs/raids were a TOTALLY different ballgame.

Basically EQ went like this:

1. Leveling was very long and at times difficult. Unlike modern MMO's, screwing up while soloing an equal con mob could easily and quickly result in your death, and the loss of 45+ minutes worth of XP.  Because of this, by the time you reached even the middle levels, the game itself had weeded out the truly bad players, and by the time you reached "end game" (that term didnt exist then btw) the game had weeded out the majority of the mediocre players.  There was a safe bet if you grabbed someone for a group they at least knew how to play their class and role at an acceptable skill level.

2. Because groups/raids, etc were so hard to get formed and going, people didnt dink around.  Spots were hard to come by so people actually coveted them and didnt do common things you get now like rage quiting, random unannounced 20 min afk's, etc. When you had to wait 30min to an hour on a list for a group (or longer) you didnt screw around with that potential group spot.

3. Also, due to long leveling time, you had a real honest to god community on each server, i'm sure this was the same in UO.  People grouped with each other a lot and got to know who was good, who was ok, who were d-bags, who was cool, etc etc.

1. Yesterday’s Noobie, is Tomorrow’s MVP.
2. Gearscore blocks both inexperienced and experienced players.
3. One should feel safe to admit they are unfamiliar with a raid.
4. Never assume everyone is familiar with a raid.
5. Using a third party VOIP system is the way to go.
6. Any game that incorporates a VOIP is superior to those that don’t.
7. Pugs should be encouraged and supported.
8. Some of the worst people you will meet online have the highest gearscore.

My lessons learned from Pugs.

Meanwhile she's streaming the complete opposite of this article on her twitch stream showcasing she doesn't play like this at all.

Originally posted by zellmer

Meanwhile she's streaming the complete opposite of this article on her twitch stream showcasing she doesn't play like this at all.

I haven't played this game in almost a year lol and I, as well as a few friends, PUGged LFR (PUGs are actually what this article is about). I just wanted to get some gear and get back into the swing of things. Today was the first day I've healed heroic dungeons and raids on my Disc Priest in a very, very long time.

If only I were Chuck Norris... then I could have hopped right into heroic raid modes with no gear and just done a single roundhouse kick to kill all the bosses at once.

If only...

Adopt a PUG

One problem is, too many MMOs have quests which require a group, but which DON't work with PUGs. Today more and more people depend on PUGs, because people no longer dedicate to guilds as they used to and levelling goes to fast, it's just difficult to stay on track with ingame friends. In days of Everquest, where you were away a couple of days, it didn't matter much, but today when you are away a few days, most of your ingame friends have outlevelled you.

That is why group content must adapt to the times and must be possible for PUG groups. Otherwise a continually larger group of players will simply be locked out of a growing part of the content people paid for. Example are esp. Raids, which are usually so difficult, you can't just join some PUG Raid group. Or same with Arena PVP, where PUGs just suck compared to premades.

In past days PUGs were more an exception, but they became the rule now, and MMOs simply failed to acknowledge that change, and cater only a hardcore dinosaur type of guild dedicated gamer which today isn't the rule anymore.

Originally posted by Sirca

Adopt a PUG

Indeed! Their faces are squishie!

Originally posted by HurricanePip

Yup.  PUGs are great until you realize how much they suck.

 

This is why I'm liking GW2 all the more these days. You don't need to People PUG, like you do with other "holy trinity" MMO games.

In GW2, you can Heal, you can DPS, and in most cases you can tank (or in the case of hunters & necro's, summon a tank pet). So you can pretty much do anything, so long as you don't tag more than you can deal with.

Also with dynamic events, kill sharing and shared loot, you can just rock up to an event, start blasting away, share in the XP and loot without having to join an annoying PUG. It's very refreshing!

I expect to see Hot Pocket, posting about GW2 soon enough. ;)

I like PUGs a lot, but they're rarely (note I said rarely, not "never") up to the quality of a group formed with friends and/or guild mates. There's a difference between people who want to succeed and people who want the whole group to succeed. Not to mention it's easier to talk to people you already know. 

But PUGs are still useful when no one wants to do the content you do beside a handful of strangers also trying to get it done. Better to have a somewhat malformed group than none at all. GW2's got it right and hopefully more games adopt a similar system, where you don't actually have to group with people in order to help each other out. That honestly solves so many problems, it's perfect. Except for dungeons...still have the typical MMO PUG issues with those, mainly because they're so mind-numbingly hard.

I agree that PuG's can be pretty bad, but lets not start throwing stones. We were all at once new players that needed help with something. Maybe that's why I've always seen PuG's as a way to make new friends and help players with less knowledge than myself. See, I always stick up for the underdog and am careful to not be narcistic like the author appears to be. This type of story does nothing to help anyone except to put barriers between the "elite" players and those that just want to play a game. Me? I'll stick to just playing a game and not worrying so much about who's the best at what. Thank god GW2 is coming along. Now I can join my guild family again in a great atmosphere.

Does anyone remember the dragon raids in DAoC? Getting 50 people to come together to kill a dragon was awesome. It took awhile to get everyone there but the wait and seeing all the new faces was worth it. Those were mostly all PuG's led by one strong guild or leader. It worked and was great even if there were mistakes made. One of my fonder memories in gaming.

If i have to pug i will quit first .....its either a great guild or nothing

Elitist guilds are killing mmo's they were fun when we just grouped and had fun . More like  a job than a game i feel sad for all the people who take it too serious .

I feel bad for people who refer to their gaming as "their gaming career". With the exception of people like the author who turned it into a career.

Originally posted by Fadari

I also started gaming with UO, EQ and AC and I do not, in any way believe that a 12 year old could have played UO under the conditions of that game.  You don't have the intellect, thought processes, coordination or even the wisdom/experience at 12 to stay alive long enough to chop wood.  Fanboy's may dream about following some young girl gamer, but keep it real.  Even your knowledge of WoW is limited. You seem to have no idea what raiding was like before dungeon finders were added to some games and thus the dumbing down of content so uncoordinated groups could get their loot.  Just be honest, tell us what you know and really experienced.  Maybe an action screenshot would help prove you were there, then again I suppose you can get those anywhere.  After you've finished an article/blog, maybe a spell and grammar check might be an idea too.

-Lisa (a real female gamer)

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Fadari-and-Whizbang/103668596424771 

 

Huh. Sorry, but when I was 12, I was playing Ultima Online (talking circa 98/99). My friends and I, around the same age (10-14), had little issue raiding and pillaging the countryside. You may be shocked to hear, but we also played a few MUDs as well.

Anyhow... Pokket, when you mentioned "hayday of Ultima Online", I was keen on reading the rest of the article, but then you mentioned--in the same paragraph--"champion spawn" and now I can't focus on any of the following text. I'm a Feluccan, and I curse the day the world split. *Shakes fist*