I get why they are announcing an mmorpg 4 years in advance of a beta, and I am sure you all are as well.  We aren't morons, regardless of how dummed down the community has become thanks to the swell of FPS players infiltrating mmorpgs and turning fantasy warfare into a third person fantasy shooter (Huttball anyone?).

It is apparent that the "developer(s)" of this title have very little financial foundation.  My guess is that they got together one day (whoever they really is) and said, "hey, let's get a kickstarter program in funding, get folks to donate, and before you know it, we will have the money to make an mmorpg."

This is at best all this is and it's ridiculous and unethical.  Or is it?

There are a lot of folks who want to be developers; possibly as many who want to be aspiring authors (and can barely formulate a thought or sentence).  So just what if the folks at EoC have a grand idea?  What if they are going to build the first good sandbox mmorpg since Shadowbane?  What if the entire reason the genre of the mmo is dying is because the creative folks aren't getting investors.  Perhaps investors have fooled themselves through narcissism and avarice into thinking that they can get their fingers into the next pot of WoW success? And maybe the community of gamers is really dum as a box of rocks?  Perhaps they all sit at home and ingest smoky substances and wait for their mom to make them dinner whilst they sit in front of a system and play GW2?  Or what if, folks really aren't as stupid as the industry is making them out to be?

Enter the advantage of donating, participating, and keeping talent out of the hands of those corporate investors who have destroyed nearly every mmoRPG project since WoW. 

Maybe it's time to prove the industry wrong, to show that we can have a great sandbox without relying on a bunch of suits who would turn it into a steaming pile of entropy.

Finally, consider the fact that there are easily hundreds of thousands of gamers in the States alone who would love to play a free to roam no holds barred sandbox.  If each of those folks tossed in a few bucks each month, say $2.00, then consider the kind of funding this sandbox could receive.  Of course I humbly believe that those who do participate in a kickstarter program (where they drop a few dollars in the donation pot here and there), should be able to fully alpha and beta test without need for invite.  Just my thoughts.

So it's really up to you folks.  This project could just be a scam, or, consider the possibilities. 

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

Examples of vaporware:

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games)

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

If I were a college drop out or worked at walmart I would be making conspiracy novels on mmorpg forums as well, and would be seriously concerned about sending my life savings (20 dollars) to random kickstart projects.  However this is not the case.  If they really are vaporware and just split with the money -oh well- I would gladly give a few bucks at the possibility of getting a MMO that really appeals to me.

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

 

 

Examples of vaporware:

 

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games)

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

 

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

 

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

I vote scam.

A donation is just that, a donation not an investement. So I don't see the viability.

These Indie companys are no better than a beggar in the street, they just do it on a more sophisticated level.  The beggar uses a tin can, the Indie company uses a webpage. Who in their right mind would donate to a company, that is  not a charitable organization, but  a for profit organization with goals to enrich themselves from your donations?

That said, you did miss Wish, which became The Wish project on your list, and subsequently another failed idea. The internet is littered with these failed dreams and promises all buried now in virtual space for us to revisit.

I am an avid sandbox connoisseur, but until a ligitimate one emerges I plan to play EVE and probably the occasional  themepark that entertaines me for a few months.

Consumers beware. Never preorder, and never donate.

My 2cents.

From what I have seen, they are just a bunch of indie developers who got together and are giving everything they got to make this game a success. I have seen their topic on gamedev.net and by the looks of it, they are serious with the project. There are several MMO-s that started just like this game and have grown quite big so I wouldn't call it a scam(thats just stupid, lets be honest).

Originally posted by ComafMy guess is that they got together one day (whoever they really is) and said, "hey, let's get a kickstarter program in funding, get folks to donate, and before you know it, we will have the money to make an mmorpg."

 

This is at best all this is and it's ridiculous and unethical.  Or is it?

 

1. "they" are very open about who they are. They are more transparent than any other company I've ever seen. Even Higby and the PS2 devs. Feel free to check out the EoC website and email Rob, Lee or Dave, you may get a reply if they have time.

 

2. The kickstarter situation was debated for a long time, and was decided to be dropped. A large portion of the EoC community wanted to dontate, so it was brought back up and you see what happened.

 

3. The people asked for it and payed for it, nobody forced them into this. They want it that badly, I don't see a problem.

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

 

 

Examples of vaporware:

 

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games)

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

 

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

 

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

I vote scam.

A donation is just that, a donation not an investement. So I don't see the viability.

These Indie companys are no better than a beggar in the street, they just do it on a more sophisticated level.  The beggar uses a tin can, the Indie company uses a webpage. Who in their right mind would donate to a company, that is  not a charitable organization, but  a for profit organization with goals to enrich themselves from your donations?

That said, you did miss Wish, which became The Wish project on your list, and subsequently another failed idea. The internet is littered with these failed dreams and promises all buried now in virtual space for us to revisit.

I am an avid sandbox connoisseur, but until a ligitimate one emerges I plan to play EVE and probably the occasional  themepark that entertaines me for a few months.

Consumers beware. Never preorder, and never donate.

My 2cents.

Keep enjoying yoru wow clones, the fact is indies are NOT all bad, most indies want to do something most AAA 's don't have the balls to do, or care to do because they just want your money so if anything is a scam its SWTOR, and every other WOW clone that you dummy's buy....

Being a newwer Developer myself most of us build games for fun and to make something different but then we have people like  you, why would we wanna make games for people who are ungreatful ?     So again NOT all indies are bad, and after what I seen the amount of work they have done they are for real... so before you run your mouth get your facts right..

/rolllseyes

kids today

PS, people like to cause problems and whine about everything, most people who do just don't have a life...

Originally posted by cnutemp

If I were a college drop out or worked at walmart I would be making conspiracy novels on mmorpg forums as well, and would be seriously concerned about sending my life savings (20 dollars) to random kickstart projects.  However this is not the case.  If they really are vaporware and just split with the money -oh well- I would gladly give a few bucks at the possibility of getting a MMO that really appeals to me.

I believe it was in the last ten years when folks who type to communicate began complaining about anything more than a few broken sentences being akin to a "novel."

As a Wallmart employee or college drop out, I am sure that had you understood the post you would have gotten the idea that I am actually non supporting a conspiracy theory, rather, I pointed out some well known facts and went on to say that Embers might be viable.

Master's degree here by the way, for what that's worth in today's economy, and while I support Wallmart's brilliant business model, I have never had the privilege of working there :)

Though in regards to your post, sometimes folks are like garbage trucks, i.e., they carry around all this trash and have to dump it off somewhere.

/2 cents

Originally posted by petrolsmell

From what I have seen, they are just a bunch of indie developers who got together and are giving everything they got to make this game a success. I have seen their topic on gamedev.net and by the looks of it, they are serious with the project. There are several MMO-s that started just like this game and have grown quite big so I wouldn't call it a scam(thats just stupid, lets be honest).

Nice! 

Originally posted by Darkcrystal

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

 

 

Examples of vaporware:

 

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games)

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

 

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

 

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

I vote scam.

A donation is just that, a donation not an investement. So I don't see the viability.

These Indie companys are no better than a beggar in the street, they just do it on a more sophisticated level.  The beggar uses a tin can, the Indie company uses a webpage. Who in their right mind would donate to a company, that is  not a charitable organization, but  a for profit organization with goals to enrich themselves from your donations?

That said, you did miss Wish, which became The Wish project on your list, and subsequently another failed idea. The internet is littered with these failed dreams and promises all buried now in virtual space for us to revisit.

I am an avid sandbox connoisseur, but until a ligitimate one emerges I plan to play EVE and probably the occasional  themepark that entertaines me for a few months.

Consumers beware. Never preorder, and never donate.

My 2cents.

Keep enjoying yoru wow clones, the fact is indies are NOT all bad, most indies want to do something most AAA 's don't have the balls to do, or care to do because they just want your money so if anything is a scam its SWTOR, and every other WOW clone that you dummy's buy....

 

 

Being a newwer Developer myself most of us build games for fun and to make something different but then we have people like  you, why would we wanna make games for people who are ungreatful ?     So again NOT all indies are bad, and after what I seen the amount of work they have done they are for real... so before you run your mouth get your facts right..

 

 

/rolllseyes

kids today

 

 

PS, people like to cause problems and whine about everything, most people who do just don't have a life...

I hope you aren't responsible for the editing and grammar portion of your alleged mmorpg project :)

All kidding aside (I'll kindly assume English isn't your first language and then I'll shut up so as not to further embarrass myself!), I believe that you are trying to say that Embers, as an independent project, might be a viable attempt to create something that is not misleading?  In other words, you support kickstarting Embers?

Thanks for posting :)

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

 

 

Examples of vaporware:

 

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games  What makes you think that this is vapourware?  Why are you labeling games?  Please define this vague term, since you clearly are not using it based off the traditional definition as Otherland is FAR from Vapourware, they have screen shots, in game videos, and a speculative release date.  

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

 

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

 

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

 

 

Examples of vaporware:

 

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games)

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

 

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

 

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

I vote scam.

A donation is just that, a donation not an investement. So I don't see the viability.

These Indie companys are no better than a beggar in the street, they just do it on a more sophisticated level.  The beggar uses a tin can, the Indie company uses a webpage. Who in their right mind would donate to a company, that is  not a charitable organization, but  a for profit organization with goals to enrich themselves from your donations?

That said, you did miss Wish, which became The Wish project on your list, and subsequently another failed idea. The internet is littered with these failed dreams and promises all buried now in virtual space for us to revisit.

I am an avid sandbox connoisseur, but until a ligitimate one emerges I plan to play EVE and probably the occasional  themepark that entertaines me for a few months.

Consumers beware. Never preorder, and never donate.

My 2cents.

Well said and I get your point.  Oh and  you are correct, I forgot to write in Wish - a game I really wished had come to fruition, along with Dark and Light, and a few others.

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games  What makes you think that this is vapourware?  Why are you labeling games?  Please define this vague term, since you clearly are not using it based off the traditional definition as Otherland is FAR from Vapourware, they have screen shots, in game videos, and a speculative release date.  

 

 

Fair enough.  I took a new look at this and as I am a Tad Williams fan - albeit his fantasy novels, not his sci-fi, happy to see that this is finally coming along.  Note that it was on the vaporware list for a while.

Though be aware that, for example, we could arguably call Dark and Light vaporware "evolved" or some similar title, being that mmorpgs can come to life and be a live log-in mmorpg, but they end up with literally less than a few hundred players at best (remember Alganon? - you probably haven't even heard of it).

I'll keep my eye on the Tad Williams project...could just bottom out next week. 

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by ShortyBible

Originally posted by Comaf

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

1.  Kickstart programs exist, it's the idea that we can input currency to support a game in development.

2.  There's no guarantee that after investing in said game, that it will ever come to fruition

3.  There are an endless accolade of folks who want to be developers, but do not have the money

4.  It's in the nature of some folks with a plan, to really be trying to find ways to live off your cash while they toy around with making an mmorpg.

 

 

Examples of vaporware:

 

1. Dawn (Glitchless) They claim to still be about ready to go beta

2. Firefly (Multiverse Netweork Inc)

3. Buffy (MNI I believe)

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games)

5. Infinity (too tired to look up dev)

The list goes on and on.

 

Point is, vaporware does exist.  With the kickstarter program, folks are risking sending dollars to such organizations who may or may not have the doner's best interests in mind.

 

In the case of Embers, I am hoping this is a viable investment.

I vote scam.

A donation is just that, a donation not an investement. So I don't see the viability.

These Indie companys are no better than a beggar in the street, they just do it on a more sophisticated level.  The beggar uses a tin can, the Indie company uses a webpage. Who in their right mind would donate to a company, that is  not a charitable organization, but  a for profit organization with goals to enrich themselves from your donations?

That said, you did miss Wish, which became The Wish project on your list, and subsequently another failed idea. The internet is littered with these failed dreams and promises all buried now in virtual space for us to revisit.

I am an avid sandbox connoisseur, but until a ligitimate one emerges I plan to play EVE and probably the occasional  themepark that entertaines me for a few months.

Consumers beware. Never preorder, and never donate.

My 2cents.

Well said and I get your point.  Oh and  you are correct, I forgot to write in Wish - a game I really wished had come to fruition, along with Dark and Light, and a few others.

Here, since you cannot be bothered to look it up, here is the definition

taken from WIkipedia

Vaporware is a term in the computer industry that describes a product, typically computer hardware or software, that is announced to the general public but is never actually released nor officially cancelled. Vaporware is also a term sometimes used to describe events that are announced or predicted, never officially cancelled, but never intended to happen. The term also generally applies to a product that is announced months or years before its release, and for which public development details are lacking. The word has been applied to a growing range of products including consumer, automobiles, and some stock trading practices. At times, vendors are criticized for intentionally producing vaporware in order to keep customers from switching to competitive products that offer more features.^[1]

You may notice that it says "not offically canceled"  and as SEVERAL games you list off WERE cancled, please use proper terms.  You can't simply define and redefine things as you see fit.

Originally posted by Comaf

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games  What makes you think that this is vapourware?  Why are you labeling games?  Please define this vague term, since you clearly are not using it based off the traditional definition as Otherland is FAR from Vapourware, they have screen shots, in game videos, and a speculative release date.  

 

 

Fair enough.  I took a new look at this and as I am a Tad Williams fan - albeit his fantasy novels, not his sci-fi, happy to see that this is finally coming along.  Note that it was on the vaporware list for a while.

 

 

Whos list?  Yours? 

You are incorrectly defining things as vapor ware.

Originally posted by Laughing-man

Originally posted by Comaf

4. Otherland (remember Tad Williams?)  - (DTP Games  What makes you think that this is vapourware?  Why are you labeling games?  Please define this vague term, since you clearly are not using it based off the traditional definition as Otherland is FAR from Vapourware, they have screen shots, in game videos, and a speculative release date.  

 

 

Fair enough.  I took a new look at this and as I am a Tad Williams fan - albeit his fantasy novels, not his sci-fi, happy to see that this is finally coming along.  Note that it was on the vaporware list for a while.

 

 

Whos list?  Yours? 

You are incorrectly defining things as vapor ware.

You have been a busy bee!  Apparently I have affected you at an emotional level which makes me wonder if you are truly a man who laughs :)

So what I will do is this so that you feel somewhat satisfied in this little world we call a thread:

SPECIAL note and caveat:

I have definitely extended the vaporware meaning to include games that have just fallen apart at the seams before, during, or after release.  I am glad that you caught on to that! :)

Here's a smaller definition:  Though I like the Merriam Webster version (which is like yours minus the highlighting and apparent emotional tone):

VAPORWARE: a computer-related product that has been widely advertised but has not and may never become available

I will continue, however, to use this variation on vaporware's definition (sorry Merriam Webster), so that we can more broadly include other failed projects.  If this offends you, look at it this way, religions use a term that people fight and die over, i.e., GOD.  But ironically, God is something different to almost every single person.

Please try to see it in this way in the future, especially in regards to my liberal use of the term, "vaporware."

Anyway, back on topic:  I support the Embers of Caerus project.  Looks decent in my limited opinion :)

/salute

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

And it came out what, 8 years after it was announced?

On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website.Darkfall launched successfully in N. America on July 13, 2009

Can't blame  people for thinking it was vapor.

Originally posted by wowclones

Originally posted by Nefastus
Haha, love those conspiracy theories. Just reminds me of tons of such idiotic vapor conspiracy posts before Darkfall was released.

And it came out what, 8 years after it was announced?

On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website.Darkfall launched successfully in N. America on July 13, 2009

Can't blame  people for thinking it was vapor.

Ehm, games developed by small indie companies usually come out after 5+ years. Also, Razorwax consited of I believe 5 Norwegian guys (If I remember correctly), until they merged with Aventurine years later.

I have faith in them, I've spoken to a few of the dev's and they really seem to be putting %100 into this game, as a small company they needed money and hopefully with money they recieved from the kickstarter and the on going income from the supporter plan they can get on their feet create something amazing for us, but also themselves, their main reason for creating EoC is because they wabnt to play a true sandbox MMO not to make money, but so they to can experience a true sandbox.