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Originally posted by antshock35

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Originally posted by bezado  

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Originally posted by antshock35 [mod edit]   

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  Well let's see, mmorpg are a serious business for many people, it is the prime form of entertainment but is also a social hub. I don't know if you are a male or female but let's use this scenario and consider you a strait female. A player in game you meet who you think is a male player because they are male character started up a relationship with you and you enjoyed playing with them, you chat with them in game for months and play with them, but you never talk to them on a chat service. Then one day you find out that male toon is actually a female who is a lesbian and was hitting on you for months and you engaged in certain roleplay talks with because you like to roleplay your toon. Now you saying that it is not a problem that this happens all the time? It is more males doing it though using female toons.

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[mod edit]

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Umm it's called role play game for a reason, seems many of you are taking that out. It is a social game, you don't assume males are females and females are males just because, you will eventually find people you like to play with in these games and things may not seem what they appear and it happens to thousands of mmorpg gamers, if not tens of thousands. Mostly males being female toons, but you get the idea.

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Originally posted by RavingRabbid
Too many morons online hitting up on females as soon as they find out that they are females. Especially the ones that try to excessively help them or trying to charm them via knowledge of the game. I always laugh at these. I applaud the ladies who tell them to get lost.

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+1 to the thousandth power haha.

To the OP i totally understand your sisters situation, i play with my BF and even like that boys try to be flirty on me. Is kinda uncomfortable and in the game i play alone they most of the time wanna force me to go to ventrilo just to find out if im a real female or not, i dont go i dont even have ventrilo installed and why do they care im a girl or not.

And BTW some guys think because you are a girl you suck at games, ive seen a lot of those. I know a bunch of girl who can pwn them in pvp and i enjoy watching them loosing to this skilled girls xD

Originally posted by RavingRabbid
Too many morons online hitting up on females as soon as they find out that they are females. Especially the ones that try to excessively help them or trying to charm them via knowledge of the game. I always laugh at these. I applaud the ladies who tell them to get lost.

On the flip side,  we (ex-guild) had this one girl who was just starved for attention, acting like one of the guys... constantly yapping about how much of a cock hound she was.  Being a pretty social group, we had a real life photo thread going. Let me tell you, the moment she posted her pic, there was an awkward silence that felt like 5 minutes. We then heard the familiar "user has left your channel" and never heard from her again.

We all know about the male gamer stereotype, but not all of these ladies are gems themselves.

If you are wondering why women choose to disguise themselves in online games i'd like to turn your attention to fatuglyorslutty.com  I was at Pax East this year and attended a seminar that was done by the owner of this website and a couple other women who were like minded.  I found it very informative even though i misunderstood the title of the seminar.

boys play female characters because they love when they can control a female character even if it is fantasy one and not only woman but also man should hide their identities . internet is a dangerous place . i remember my sister credit card getting hacked on facebook because she bought  facebook credits and someone used her credit card for 500 us dollars

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

When was the last time you actually knew the true gender of the players around you in an MMO or on these forums?

Time after time I've found Male characters being played by Woman, and Female characters being played by Men. Most of the time it almost feels like an odd adventure into the Land of Oz at the ratio of Men to Woman in the Online spectrum.

However, what I've found most peculiar is the need for any female in general to have to hide themselves from immature males in this online environment that we call the Internet. Why do you, oh females of the Net, find the need to hide yourselves from the world around you? Are the current tools at your disposal such as ignore, block, report, kick, not powerful enough to help you?

Is it simply a way to cloak yourself in true anonymity & hide from those awkward situations with cave dwellers that have barely interacted with females IRL, or do you have more seclusive reasons? Perhaps you simply don't wish to hurt the feelings of those around you by standing up for yourself, or is it quite simply just easier to hide amongst the crowd thereby dodging any situation that might render you feeling vulnerable?

As a man playing online for many years I've always felt bad that woman as a whole have to hide their gender simply in fear of being stalked/harassed/judged simply because they're female & they happen to like the internet as much as I do. I simply don't understand why the environment is so acceptable by both parties to allow this kind of crap to continue.

I'm making this thread primarily because of a conversation I had this weekend with my sisters & female guild members on the subject, and how they constantly find the need to play Male characters & never actually get to express themselves in fear of the aforementioned issues, and previous guilds (or current ones my sisters are in for other games) that openly allow this sort of harassment simply because said members may not know better.

I'd like to challenge any Guild/Clan/Group that currently exist to openly discourage such behavior even if said members "don't know any better". Specifically, my younger sister currently plays WoW & has to deal with a mentally handicapped member who sticks to her like glue constantly, and gets physically upset on the guild ventrilo (thereby completely embarassing her) when she's not playing with said member. Seriously, I'm all for treating handicapped people with a little less restrictiveness, but that would anger me to the point of yelling should it ever occur in my current guild. If she had hidden her identity as a female it could have all been avoided, however she would have lost out of the ability to truly express herself for who she is thereby demeaning her experience as a whole....and that's the ENTIRE problem!

Am I simply rambling here because I'm a little loopy from Monday-Morning Work, or is anyone else feeling the same way :I?

TLDR;

I'm pissed off because the current paradigm is that it's ok for Woman to have to hide their identity while playing online simply because the need is there. Why the hell is it acceptable to allow situations that force this kind of preasure thereby spawning the need to begin with? I don't think it's ever ok for a situation to arrise that warrants being forced to hide who & what you are simply because others are ok with said situations happening. Isn't there a way to change this mentality?

ps: I've been around for awhile so I very well know that it's been this way for some time, but in my book that doesn't make it right seeing as how it's 2012 already!

This website shows great examples of why female gamers hide their genders online : http://fatuglyorslutty.com/  (No need to be warry of the name, that name was based on common insults female gamers have received while playing online. Else you can always goggle it just in case).

Still, these ignore or report tools are not enough. All it's doing is put a blanket over the underlying issue, but the problems are still there. It's up to gaming communities as well as game developers to step up and state that such behavior will not be tolerated. Few have done so yet, which is a shame.  Female gamers shouldn't be the only ones trying to raise awareness, we, male gamers, need to also take part in raising awareness and taking actions (within our power) to prevent such actions. After all, all this bullshit *is* coming from our side.

Originally posted by MadnessRealm
Still, these ignore or report tools are not enough. All it's doing is put a blanket over the underlying issue, but the problems are still there. It's up to gaming communities as well as game developers to step up and state that such behavior will not be tolerated. Few have done so yet, which is a shame.  Female gamers shouldn't be the only ones trying to raise awareness, we, male gamers, need to also take part in raising awareness and taking actions (within our power) to prevent such actions. After all, all this bullshit *is* coming from our side.

+1

Raising awareness in our respective communities is definitely the way to go. Can't control all the rogues, but we can foster safe/respectful environments and attempt to elevate the standard of civility.

After being stalked/harassed by a gamer in RL and forced to leave that game and take legal action aginst him.  I play under my husband's or father's acount name and never use vent to talk to other gamers.

Do not get me wrong, I have made some great frinds in games over the years.  But the pain caused by a few have left a very bad felling about revealing my gender to other players.

I did an experiment a few years back in a game with my first female character. I decided I would role play the character as if I was a female to find out if there were real differences in how I was treated.

I think it was in Cabal, but it was long enough that my memory of the event is a bit hazy. What I do know for sure is that once people thought that I was a female the chat certainly changed. People would talk to me more often and I did get more free stuff from people trying to help me. I did not work that angle as a scam and eventually left that character to die quietly in the character selection page but a few valuable lessons were learned.

I have also had some terrible experiences with some female characters and people. There are two that I know of, we shared a guild vent service, that were extremely volatile individuals. Both were dramatic people with tempers and language designed to shock. One of them was permanently muted by me, the other just ignored for a while until things cooled down. To this day I have no idea what caused the eruptions but I suspect that they both had similar real life social issues and that the internet is the place they go to in order to interact with people. I have had some heated arguments and debates with both men and women over the years online, but only these two females were irrational beyond reasonable and therefore not worth conversing with.

On a lighter note I have also played with many other women that are equal to or better than their male counter parts as far as gaming and socializing goes. If anything, I find women more patient when explaining things to people with fewer noob jokes and whatnot. I also have been in a guild with a couple of openly gay and lesbian individuals and none of the stereotypes applied to these people either.

Truth be told. Some people role play. Some people are insecure online or not, and some people are just awful, imbalanced, and potentially mentally ill people. Stereotypes do not apply to all.

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Originally posted by Acornia
After being stalked/harassed by a gamer in RL and forced to leave that game and take legal action aginst him.  I play under my husband's or father's acount name and never use vent to talk to other gamers.

Do not get me wrong, I have made some great frinds in games over the years.  But the pain caused by a few have left a very bad felling about revealing my gender to other players.

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Interesting feelings towards that and I am sorry about your issues, but I think you are going about it the wrong way.

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Originally posted by Acornia
After being stalked/harassed by a gamer in RL and forced to leave that game and take legal action aginst him.  I play under my husband's or father's acount name and never use vent to talk to other gamers.

Do not get me wrong, I have made some great frinds in games over the years.  But the pain caused by a few have left a very bad felling about revealing my gender to other players.

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Completely understandable given the circumstances.

Any one that gives female players special attention and gives them free stuff deserve to get scammed.

Originally posted by Acornia

After being stalked/harassed by a gamer in RL and forced to leave that game and take legal action aginst him.  I play under my husband's or father's acount name and never use vent to talk to other gamers.

Do not get me wrong, I have made some great frinds in games over the years.  But the pain caused by a few have left a very bad felling about revealing my gender to other players.

 Okay first off ....that suks hardcore...now I am not putting this on you but how did this guy stalk you ? Did you give him a email,phone number,fb, etc.....If he was becoming that much of a problem in game should of reported him to the company of which the game is managed.....

I have Know Idea how someone would eb able to stalk you without you first giving out personal info....did he hack the game to get your personal info and rl name .....You would of had to have some kind of relationship with this man in rl.......

Heres how you do it Don't give out any personal information and you won't have these problems .....

I only say this because you are playing a victim here when Infact I think theres some info your not giving us in the whole.....

THIS DOES NOT EXCUSE THIS MAN BEHAVIOR IN ANY WAY AND I AM SORRY THIS HAPPENED TO YOU ......but I don't see how this man could stalk you in anyway without you giving him some info that you should of not given him. Someone ask whats your rl name is you say amy if your name is shelia if they ask for a email address give them www.amy6@gmail is that a rl address no. Put them on ignore in game and report them to the game. Never give out shat to anyone you don't know remb stranger danger.....

I never understood the NEED for knowing what gender the other player is. I play in mature guilds where anyone can be themselves. But I never asked anyone if they were M or F.

It's all about the personality anyway. After all I'm gaming, not dating :p

Originally posted by chefdiablo

 

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Originally posted by Acornia
After being stalked/harassed by a gamer in RL and forced to leave that game and take legal action aginst him.  I play under my husband's or father's acount name and never use vent to talk to other gamers.

Do not get me wrong, I have made some great frinds in games over the years.  But the pain caused by a few have left a very bad felling about revealing my gender to other players.

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Completely understandable given the circumstances.

Ive only met a few women that hid it and I was amazed by how well they did it.   Played with them for years and never had a clue.    One time years ago I was playing a FPS think it was Rouge Spear RavenSheild.   And this guy kept tea bagging me every chance he could, I thought that was weird, turns out it was a girl.    I didnt think women liked FPS just one more stereotype Ive had to loose over the years.

I can not give you all the details about what happened in the RL stalking because it happened way back in time of The Realm and SWG during the start of Desert Storm and I was working for the DoD.  It happen part in game and RL when game info, such as real name and address, was posted to the internet by accident or hacking of the game.

I can not tell you how he showed up and got on base, but ended up having to call the APs to kick him off base and turn him over to local cops.

Since then an advice of the base JAG, I have taken great pains when using the internet to do my work or play games.

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Originally posted by ButeoRegalis

Originally posted by Fadedbomb

Isn't there a way to change this mentality?

For this to change, everyone of us would have to take responsibility, not only for our actions, but also for our inactions. Of course that can be hard work.

When you see someone throwing out harassing statements, slurs, you would have to challenge them. When they claim it was all in good fun, you'd have to explain to them that this isn't really funny for the affected person. When they claim you are just too sensitive, you would have to explain that in fact they are too insensitive.

You may or may not get backup from your guild mates, which is also dependent on who's on at that time. You may even find yourself in the minority if you are arguing against someone and their friends are on and providing backup against you.

You could even make it - right at that time - worse for the target of the slur by prolonging the debate and bringing more attention to it. Maybe the target of the remark has developed a thick skin and isn't bothered by it, and might even take offense at you butting in.

Maybe you have been the target of slurs and attacks yourself and just are glad it isn't you this time.

It gets even more complicated if the behavior isn't overtly hostile or intended that way, like the case the OP brings up. (Assuming he wasn't using "mentally handicapped" just as an attack himself) Would you make the effort of trying to explain to a mentally handicapped person that their behavior is inappropriate?

I have let sexist and homophobic slurs slide, telling myself, it's all in good fun, everybody knows it's just a friendly tease, it's just a one-off remark, it wasn't directed at me, no one is speaking up, so no one is taking offense, I'm not gonna make any waves over one off-color remark, I don't want to argue against that guy and all his buddies, it's their guild after all.

I guess I'm not always a good person when I could be.

I legitimately meant a "HandiCapped" individual whos physical age is 19 but has a mental maturity of about 9. Again, not his fault, but it is the fault of those surrounding him to allow his behavior to go unchecked. Just because someone is mentally handicapped doesn't mean they're completely inept and learning from their actions, and if they are completely incapable of learning from their actions they shouldn't be in said guild to begin with.

 

Just my 2cents :)

I think it is typical for a 13-16 year old boy that just discovered he is interested in women and falls in love with every girl or woman that talks to him for more than 10 seconds. And believes they must be intersted in him.

A 19 YO behaving like that is a bit childish for his age. But perhaps because he is very unlucky trying to find a gf in real life. And, in that case, he might think about that every day. Perhaps most women ignore him. And if someone actually is nice to him he believes she is the love of his life...But often they will grow up and start to behave like adults eventually. Calling someone like that "handicapped" could be a bit to much, IMO.

In a game with a lot of players that are 12-19 YO boys it is not easy to avoid them. Perhaps it is normal?

I pretend to play a female toon and use a voice morpher for skype/ventrilo. It is funny how easy it is to find a picture online and put it in a "IRL photo guild thread". The amount of free shit and free pass i get to pretty much all raid spots/gear is hilarious.

And you may think that I am a low life, but I am giving you nerds a perceived fantasy and benefitting from it at the same time; win-win situation.