Originally posted by Atlan99

Overall while the quality of the content is high. However the quantity is fairly low.

Yeah I guess this is what happens when players demand quality, the quantity suffers, fewer quests that are enagaging or a ton of  fetch and kill quests. Boils down to repeating interesting quests or not repeating boring quests, sound about the same lol.

The way I am currently approaching TSW is to run through using ranged type weapons, then run through again using melee and then after that using the magic stuff, akin to rolling alts.

Originally posted by VultureSkull

Originally posted by Atlan99

Overall while the quality of the content is high. However the quantity is fairly low.

Yeah I guess this is what happens when players demand quality, the quantity suffers, fewer quests that are enagaging or a ton of  fetch and kill quests. Boils down to repeating interesting quests or not repeating boring quests, sound about the same lol.

The way I am currently approaching TSW is to run through using ranged type weapons, then run through again using melee and then after that using the magic stuff, akin to rolling alts.

 

And the best part is you'll be a twinked alt =)

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by chelan

Originally posted by nilden

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by aesperus

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by nilden maybe I missed some lore crap

that line right there says it all.

this game is nothing if it isn't all "lore crap". the whole damn game is based on "lore crap." i mean every single thing in the game.

if this is how someone feels, then i'm not sure what any TSW dev is going to be able to give them in order to keep them interested.

I ment the little yellow honeycomb boxes you click on. I could have just called them lore boxes instead of lore crap. Don't act like this gives you a leg to stand on or anything.

Originally posted by dreamscaper

I've been playing in short burst ssince a few days after launch (on average about 2 hours per night). Though I'm just now getting to the Savage Coast, I'm not worried about running out of content. There's a number of achievements for me to work on, lots of exploration and lore entries to uncover, game mechanics to get the hang of, etc, etc. It also prolly makes a difference that I'm trying to figure out the puzzles on my own rather that immediately grabbing a spoilerific guide.

 

I think the bigger issue is the player mindset of rushing to the 'endgame' thanks in no small part to WoW. While I don't want to preach about "the journey", well...

 

In short, it aggitates me slightly that some people (and I'm not necessarily referring to the OP's friend here) rush through the game as quickly as possible and then immediately whine to the devs about the lack of content.

I was going to post something similar. It's mostly an issue to those who race through everything and avoid/ignore half the content because they're in a hurry to get to the "end game" or "level cap". They've convinced themselves that's "where the real game is", and so anything they perceive as "slowing them down" is ignored outright. They are the ones who, time and again, in game after game, find themselves complaining on forums about "lack of content".

Another area I've seen that complaint come up is from people who only care about 1 or 2 specific activities in a MMO, and focus on those to the exclusion of anything else. It's usually PvP in my experience. Those people also will complain about lack of content and blame the developers, taking no responsibility for the fact that the content is there, they simply chose not to do any of it.

Meanwhile, time after time, in game after game, the people who like to experience the whole game, who aren't in a hurry and who mix it up by doing different things and finding enjoyment in "the journey" are the ones who stick around for many months, even years, and never have a problem with "running out of content".

There's been a small handful of times that the complaint of "lack of content" was a legitimate one. FFXIV at launch being one good example. There simply wasn't very much to do. In the majority of cases, though, the people who say "not enough content" have only themselves and their "end game or bust!" attitudes to blame. They don't like to hear that and do their best to blame the developers in any way they can. But, when you take a step back and look at the situation objectively, it's pretty clear which crowd is almost always complaining about lack of content, and which isn't.

Some players are simply their own worst enemies. No matter how many times they land themselves in the same situation, they never realize it.

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by SlickShoes

snip

If you check your post I quoted you said "/played 4 days, beat the main story"

So from that info how am I supposed to guage that you did EVERY single thing that the game has to offer?

The point still stands in one week you clocked 4 days /played, thats hardcore, not normal, realistically an average person playing a few hours a day will take weeks, possibly months to burn through all the content you did.

Disregarding the fact that you assume 4 days played = 96 full hours without a break.

If we can guess that the average person can play for about 6 hours per day on average, that is still only 16 days, a little over 2 weeks before you have done everything with the exception of a few missed quests here and there.

Not really the amount of content one would expect of an MMO which wants you to pay a sub. A single player rpg sure, but not an MMO.

You seem to be confused, 4 days /played is 96 hours in game, we are talking about the command in game that you use to see the time you have played. /played 4 days is 96 hours. I did not suggest he didn't take a single break but playing 96 hours in a week is a long time whatever way you slice it.

I don't know where you get that the average person can play for 6 hours a day, maybe if you are a student or work part time that is true.

Again you think that 96 hours of story content is not enough in this theme park MMO, there are other things to do as well but many people just won't do them, once they have played through the game as they see it, they think that it is completed. MMO's are not about completing the story content. You mention single player RPG's, if someone wants to complete the story and say "i have completed the game" then play single player games.

Name me one themepark MMO that you can't burn through the majority of the content in a couple of weeks, not counting gathering, pvp and raids? People need to realise going in to a themepark these days means that there is no endless amount of content, whining about it on a forum isn't going to change that fact either.

Thanks for clarification, but I never said it wasn't a long time for a weeks play.

I said 6 hours per day on average which is to say one day you might play 2 hours, another play 8 (on the weekend perhaps). I also said "if we can guess", so that's where I got it from.

Read his post again. He said that 96 hours included everything, not just the story content. This is not nearly enough content for an MMO.

Why are we discounting gathering, pvp and raids all of a sudden? The original poster clarified that his playtime included all of those things, so why leave them out when comparing to other MMO's?

Point to take away from this. If you can do everything in this game in 96 hours then it is no bigger than a standard single player rpg. It can't possibly last people months unless if they actually are not playing more then a few hours per week. You basically only need to play for 3.5 hours a day to make this game last 1 month.

This of course all assumes that the 96 hours is an accurate window of time to do everything in the game, baring a few missed quests here and there.

Originally posted by MindTrigger
Every time I see one of these threads I laugh. If you want to know what is wrong with these games, look in the mirror. The wow-era mmo gamers asked for these story driven theme park features and here we are. Until these game developers start thinking of their games more in terms of virtual worlds with inherent replayability, there will always be a content race. We're going to have to see more sandbox hybrid features again just like the old days. Story driven content will always be finite and if the game depends on it, people won't stick around to pay a sub fee or use your item store for the long term. People don't play games like EVE for years because there are story quests. The players are making their own story. Same goes for older games like SWG and others. We played those games for years, not just a month or two.

THIS is exactly right. I cannot fathom why game developers cannot grasp this. There is an easy way to provide endless content to a game, it's called making a "virtual world". 

Originally posted by ironhelix

Originally posted by MindTrigger

THIS is exactly right. I cannot fathom why game developers cannot grasp this. There is an easy way to provide endless content to a game, it's called making a "virtual world". 

Not everyone wants a virtual world. I just want more things to do. Quality PvP and crafting would help.

I played quite a bit yesterday and I'm amazed at the amount of people running around so decked out in gear that looks like they literally passed through hell to get, talking about QL10 items and such... meanwhile I'm still in Kingsmouth, still only using my shotgun which I now have totally filled out the skills for... still only 7/18 the way through the main plot line... still have so much to do from the looks of it... still trying to figure out so much of the game and get a better understanding of progression/crafting and upgrading gear.  I just earned my one little star under my name/symbol yesterday.

I feel like there's quite a lot more content for me - as a casual.  Also, since I met up with someone yesterday and role played through about 3-4 missions, that certainly helped slow things down even more.

These games were intended to be escapism and for role play... but at some point, mmorpg's trained players to chase the ending and everyone forgot that it's about the journey, not the destination.  Nowadays, almost everyone just seems to RUSH through content like mad and then complain when their essentially 'single player' experience is over.

No developer can produce content fast enough to keep up with how quick players can consume it... but MMO developers make the constant mistake of making very vertical gameplay.  They need to focus on more horizontal gameplay... stuff that the players can do aside from questing, aside from PvP or raiding even - most people only recognize these three as options nowadays.

I hate to say the 'S' word but I do believe MMORPG developers need to think about the sandbox elements that allowed players to forge their own experience and gave them purpose in the world, reasons to keep going... gave terrible MMORPG's like SWG the tools that kept communities around LONG after they should have been done with the game.

I'm not sure what Funcom could possibly do to retain those who blast through the linear content... it's something I see as a flaw in their original design for the game and a bit of a flaw in how people choose to approach MMO's nowadays.

Point out any game with long lasting appeal which is not a multiplayer FPS, RTS or a sandbox. TSW is a theme park, enjoy as long its content last. Anyone who thinks they can produce content after release fast enough to keep this game going is delusional. Enjoy the game as long it lasts.

This is an amazing game and I'm having a blast atm but it won't last long for me at least. Usually when games come out I play close to 80 hours during the release week but I managed to avoid doing that with TSW agaisnt my will ofc because I knew I would run out of content before too long. The environment and story in this game are second to none but it has way too little content at endgame even less than swtor had when it came out and well we all know how they are doing.

Originally posted by ironhelix

Originally posted by MindTrigger
Every time I see one of these threads I laugh. If you want to know what is wrong with these games, look in the mirror. The wow-era mmo gamers asked for these story driven theme park features and here we are. Until these game developers start thinking of their games more in terms of virtual worlds with inherent replayability, there will always be a content race. We're going to have to see more sandbox hybrid features again just like the old days. Story driven content will always be finite and if the game depends on it, people won't stick around to pay a sub fee or use your item store for the long term. People don't play games like EVE for years because there are story quests. The players are making their own story. Same goes for older games like SWG and others. We played those games for years, not just a month or two.

THIS is exactly right. I cannot fathom why game developers cannot grasp this. There is an easy way to provide endless content to a game, it's called making a "virtual world". 

Because the other side of that, which also comes back to the players, is that developers are going to give players what they think will give them the most money. Time and again, they'll look to the most successful products already on market and take their cues from that. What's still considered one of the biggest and most successful ones? Yep, that one.

The people making the decisions aren't sitting down trying to figure how "how gamers think" or "how gamers would react to "x", "y" and "z" concepts. They're saying "Well, "such and such" MMO has millions of players and is making tons of money. So, we need to emulate what they're doing".

And thus, another linear, heavily guided MMO is born.

Also, along the same lines, for as many people would love to have more freedom and less hand-holding, such as myself, it appears there are far, far more that require it. We're in a period of MMO gaming where people have been taught to expect that everything they ever have to do in the game will be clearly pointed out to them with arrows, map markers, glowing/sparkling/pulsating auras around objects, etc. They expect that nothing will be left to them to figure out. The moment the game removes the training wheels and makes them think on their own two feet, there's a disconnect and they're completely lost. Then they open up their browser, google the quest they're on and find the solution that way.

As many people would love to have a more "sandboxy" MMO experience again, these days, more people just want to shut off their brain, and enjoy the ride.

Sad to say, but that's about the sum of it.

When the number of players demonstrating they want deeper, more open and less linear game experiences reaches a critical mass, and those people are actually able to demonstrate it - by not buying up every new linear, theme-park MMO to come along and vocally demanding something more - that's when we'll see more attention given to that kind of game. We're a long ways off from that, from what I can tell.

Originally posted by Siveria

I am kinda worried about this game having any lasting appeal, a friend of mine has been playing since early access, and hes by no means a hardcore mmo player, and he's already pretty much run out of content to do. This is a really bad sign if you can run out of content in a week. No tto mention the pvp is fairly pointless (Why can't; devs make meaningful endgame or pvp anymore?). Doing the dungeons for gear is fine and all, but what use is there for it really after? the pvp serves no real purpose besides a small exp bonus or somesuch. Its also extremly unbalanced from what I hear, which I kinda expected with the games skill system it has. Not to mention all 3 factions don't have their own zones, so replay value of the game is honestly zilch.

I like tsw myself, but I don't know running from quest to quest is kinda getting old for me. When I heard abotu tsw and having 3 factions I was kinda praying it'd have daoc-style pvp, with a advancement system based on pvp granting new skills and passives, that have their own panels so you can use your normal 7 actives and 7 passives on top of the pvp stuff. As well as the pvp having some land control aspect to it, like daoc, perfect world, global agenda, aion etc. At least tsw didn't pull a world of warcraft and make pve earned gear worthless for pvp.

Anyway, overall TSW is not a bad game, but its going to have alot of issues keeping people after the first month I think. which is sad in a way because I feel the game has some real promise.

I never thought for the second it would last more than a month or two tops.  I proven this from all the beta testing I did. I still think the game is really bad.  Left a sour taste in my mouth but alas, I should had known better from all Funcom's previous failures.

I am just going to react to the OP's, and just share my experience. I absolutely love this game, and can't get enough for the moment. I have been playing since early access and am Templar Rank 8, QL8, however you  term it. I have a shotgun at skill level 10 , but only have a QL 8 weapon, and fist is my 2nd and is skill level 6 with a QL 5 weapon.Not that anything I said really matters, just so folks know I do actually play the game.

I am only working on Blue mountain quests as we speak and I believe I am at 12 of 18 on the main story. I am typicall not hardcore, but I checked /played last night and was amazed I had played 1d 20 hrs already. That's an insane amount of gaming for me, so I can see with Egypt and Transylvania left , that I will probably be able to get 2-3 months out of this game. I am typically a pretty casual player, the game just has me hooked at the moment, I am certain my game time will drop drastically.

I can see how hardcore gamers will eat this content up or are already close to having done it all.

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by SlickShoes

Originally posted by cinos

Originally posted by SlickShoes

snip

If you check your post I quoted you said "/played 4 days, beat the main story"

So from that info how am I supposed to guage that you did EVERY single thing that the game has to offer?

The point still stands in one week you clocked 4 days /played, thats hardcore, not normal, realistically an average person playing a few hours a day will take weeks, possibly months to burn through all the content you did.

Disregarding the fact that you assume 4 days played = 96 full hours without a break.

If we can guess that the average person can play for about 6 hours per day on average, that is still only 16 days, a little over 2 weeks before you have done everything with the exception of a few missed quests here and there.

Not really the amount of content one would expect of an MMO which wants you to pay a sub. A single player rpg sure, but not an MMO.

You seem to be confused, 4 days /played is 96 hours in game, we are talking about the command in game that you use to see the time you have played. /played 4 days is 96 hours. I did not suggest he didn't take a single break but playing 96 hours in a week is a long time whatever way you slice it.

I don't know where you get that the average person can play for 6 hours a day, maybe if you are a student or work part time that is true.

Again you think that 96 hours of story content is not enough in this theme park MMO, there are other things to do as well but many people just won't do them, once they have played through the game as they see it, they think that it is completed. MMO's are not about completing the story content. You mention single player RPG's, if someone wants to complete the story and say "i have completed the game" then play single player games.

Name me one themepark MMO that you can't burn through the majority of the content in a couple of weeks, not counting gathering, pvp and raids? People need to realise going in to a themepark these days means that there is no endless amount of content, whining about it on a forum isn't going to change that fact either.

Thanks for clarification, but I never said it wasn't a long time for a weeks play.

I said 6 hours per day on average which is to say one day you might play 2 hours, another play 8 (on the weekend perhaps). I also said "if we can guess", so that's where I got it from.

Read his post again. He said that 96 hours included everything, not just the story content. This is not nearly enough content for an MMO.

Why are we discounting gathering, pvp and raids all of a sudden? The original poster clarified that his playtime included all of those things, so why leave them out when comparing to other MMO's?

Point to take away from this. If you can do everything in this game in 96 hours then it is no bigger than a standard single player rpg. It can't possibly last people months unless if they actually are not playing more then a few hours per week. You basically only need to play for 3.5 hours a day to make this game last 1 month.

This of course all assumes that the 96 hours is an accurate window of time to do everything in the game, baring a few missed quests here and there.

It doesn't really matter what the average is anyway, this is a themepark game and anyone going in to it expecting it to fill years of there life is going to be disappointed, they are going to run out of content sooner or later. 

People don't want kill 10 rats style questing anymore, so the devs create content of a higher quality which takes longer to make, if this game had generic questing maybe they could have added another ring to the skill wheel and 6 more zones full of kill and fetch quests. Would that make it a better game? probably not.

Themepark MMO's are single player RPG's with global chat, group PvP and group Dungeons, the sooner people realise this the better and then the forums won't be flooded with people crying about how many hours it took them to complete the game, they can just steer clear and play a sandbox instead.

EDIT: I left out PvP, raids and gathering because this game doesnt even have two of them and PvP is not something you play once and the complete it, its just there you kill other players over and over, like Call Of Duty, once I have played every game mode and map I don't shelf the game forever. The same applies to raids in other games, most people don't just do it once and then stop. Gathering is something else, once your skill is maxed you don't stop you use it to get you in game money or play an auction house or feed your guild. The point is that they are repetitive tasks once you have done them once, but its acceptable in other MMO's that people repeat PvP raids and gather ad nauseum so why not repeat all the quests in this game ad nauseum?

Other than the puzzles this is a rather cookie cutter MMO.  I don't know what you guys really expected.

well ive had time off for the holidy since early access began.  I have not worked and have played pretty much 12 hours a day and I havent come close to running out of content yet.  Im only on the fourth zone and ive ran multiple dungeon runs to help people out as well as get gear for myself.  I havent repeated any of the quests and ive unlocked maybe 13 percent of my skill wheel.  Ive gotten one build complete and am working on a few more. 

whether the game has any lasting appeal or not is up to each individual person but there is plenty of content to get most casual gamers through for a few months.  Ive been playing pretty hardcore and barely scratched the surface of what this game has to offer.  if your friend went in pvp and just did the story mission then yes he might be out of content now, if out of content means he hasnt actually done any of the content.  he hasnt been through each zone and done every quest, unless he was a long time closed beta tester and knew every quest and code without having to do some research.  I would say it is impossible to do every quest in the game in a week without alot of prior knowledge of the game.

Wow... some people have no clue as to what a hardcore gamer is me thinks. I'm seeing people saying they play casually at 6 hours a day! ROFL. I would say for casual players, this game will have a TON of appeal... perhaps not so much with hardcore folks and basement dwellers. Not that there's anything wrong with playing a ton.. as I probably would if I could, haha. 

I am a casual player. I play about 2-3 hours every other night if I'm lucky. With a full time job, wife and child, 2 hours EVERY night would be a dream..lol. This is why I enjoy games way longer then the "average" gamer. By the time I can play again, I am so excited I could pee. 

Come to think of it... I actually feel bad for people that can play 6-8 hours a day, as you more then likely won't be happy with any game that comes out. And I've been seeing that lately... I've seen it with TOR, Tera and TSW and I'm sure I'll see a ton of it with Gw2. I suppose dev's just can't make a game with enough content for some of you locust...LOL.

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Originally posted by Siveria
I am kinda worried about this game having any lasting appeal, a friend of mine has been playing since early access, and hes by no means a hardcore mmo player, and he's already pretty much run out of content to do. This is a really bad sign if you can run out of content in a week. No tto mention the pvp is fairly pointless (Why can't; devs make meaningful endgame or pvp anymore?). Doing the dungeons for gear is fine and all, but what use is there for it really after? the pvp serves no real purpose besides a small exp bonus or somesuch. Its also extremly unbalanced from what I hear, which I kinda expected with the games skill system it has. Not to mention all 3 factions don't have their own zones, so replay value of the game is honestly zilch.

I like tsw myself, but I don't know running from quest to quest is kinda getting old for me. When I heard abotu tsw and having 3 factions I was kinda praying it'd have daoc-style pvp, with a advancement system based on pvp granting new skills and passives, that have their own panels so you can use your normal 7 actives and 7 passives on top of the pvp stuff. As well as the pvp having some land control aspect to it, like daoc, perfect world, global agenda, aion etc. At least tsw didn't pull a world of warcraft and make pve earned gear worthless for pvp.

Anyway, overall TSW is not a bad game, but its going to have alot of issues keeping people after the first month I think. which is sad in a way because I feel the game has some real promise.

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