Not sure nor do I care what what I pay. but for the love of the living gods please stop making damned themeparks and start creating some fun that wont end in 50-80-200 levels based on class X and his gear for PEEvPEE

It's like hearing the same song that was made famous by one band and every band for the last 12 years has been doing a cover of it every week.

Originally posted by rojo6934

so they dig their own grave by adding a subscription when their game is inferior to the only mmo that is worth a sub right know.

Which MMO is the only one wirth a sub right now ?

Originally posted by rissies
F2P games are on the rise because they can make more money. You might dismiss them as crappy companies with bad games, but at the end of the day publishers like Zynga and Nexon are making bank via f2p on a global level that makes 10 mill subs a drop in the bucket.

and u fools keep buying useless virtual items from them..........clap clap clap

ppl think p2w oups i mean  f2p is the way to go but its not...you WILL pay more on these games than p2p.

and all these crappy companies like nexon,frogster,EA etc etc WILL make sure of it

Originally posted by kaguhoO

Originally posted by rissies
F2P games are on the rise because they can make more money. You might dismiss them as crappy companies with bad games, but at the end of the day publishers like Zynga and Nexon are making bank via f2p on a global level that makes 10 mill subs a drop in the bucket.

and u fools keep buying useless virtual items from them..........clap clap clap

 

ppl think p2w oups i mean  f2p is the way to go but its not...you WILL pay more on these games than p2p.

and all these crappy companies like nexon,frogster,EA etc etc WILL make sure of it

 

I already said as much? I never said it's good for players, just that it's a very effective business model. Try to read the full conversation before acting superior next time.

I think a box purchase (these days $50+) and a monthly sub fee is a pretty big beginners hurdle for many people.

Most people will ask first is it worth the worth the box price and if they buy the box, is it worth the sub and those are already 2 points to lose customers which do not need to exist.

The F2P starts easier with a free client and a look at the game and if you like it you pay as much as you want (depending on your addiction rate).

Wouldn't actually be 'dos' the first f2p when microsoft did not complain that it got copied to throw out ibm of the race?

Seems to have worked for them

Oh look yet another delusional WoW fanboy spouting their delusions of their favorite game as fact and trying to start arguments from that. Like we have never seen that before

Aion a WoW clone? Was a laughable joke WoW fanboys vomited into the web already back 3 years ago and even before itlaunched, still remains one. How many kids still cling on this habit to call every (M)MOPRG they get to know a "clone" of their favorite first game that called itself an MMORPG, just because they strongly believe it "invented" (or the cop out excuse "revolutionized" aka did nothing at all but dumbing old ideas down for the masses) the whole genre and everything within the genre. And no need for the usual fanboys trying to "teach" us with their bullsh*t history revision and common habit to falsely attribute every idea and feature and design that exists in the genre to their favorite game like they usually do when someone points at these ridiculous claims..

Enjoy your favorite shallow copy cat grinder for 15$ then. It wouldnt even be worth to play if it was free.

I think b2p like ALL OTHER GENRES is the right way to do it. A sub is only there because we have shown we are willing to pay and even defend it. Back in the day it was more understandable when mmo's were practically the only games really online and using servers in such a capacity but now a days all that infastructure is much cheaper. Just look at your own computer and compare it to back in the day. Back in the day a modest computer was still like a thousand dollars, now a modest computer is like 300 bucks. Look at gw1, still around and they never needed subs to keep the servers up and running and there doing the same with gw2. Not holding gw up as a beacon or anything but it should make all of us think a bit about the idea they need your money for any reason other than more profits.

If your willing to give me your money I'm willing to take it.....

Yeah, i mean Rift is doing horrible. it didn't make any money to Trion and finance 2 other mmos and a full expansion.

Honestly, i don't even understand anymore. 15 bucks a month isn't enough, but i know alot of players don't spend much, if any, money ona  cash shop. Sure, F2P brings in more players, but they don't go beyond 500000. You go from 200000 to maybe 450000.

Honestly, i wonder if the future is P2P with cash shop to get both.

---

Originally posted by AlBQuirky
And do Nexon "subs" really bring in money? According to those who play F2P, no one spends any money in them except a few disdained "whales."

---

Nexon are pulling in more than a billion a year in revenue. They're not as big as Blizzard but they're in the same order of magnitude.

I think the mistake you're making is not distinguishing between (mostly Asian) companies that focus on F2P as a business model, and (mostly Western) companies that use it as a fallback position to try to salvage unsuccessful subscription titles.

Something free is more popular than a low quality product that cost box and 15$ a month? 

FTP games will always have its palce, it lets devs with not alot of money to profit on their ideas. It also lets companies take advantage of gamers by charging them to do anything. It also lets fail companies make money off of the first 6 months and profit even more by charging you to type in game.

P2P is not dead, it just needs a game worth paying for.

Honestly some FTP games can cost you more money than a P2P game. I spent more money on LoL than i did any Subscription based game.

---

Originally posted by Jaylanonyous
Honestly some FTP games can cost you more money than a P2P game. I spent more money on LoL than i did any Subscription based game.

---

I think it's a great game (although not really to my taste) but the business model has always seemed to err on the side of generosity, to the extent that I could never quite figure out how they were so successful and profitable.

I bought the boost's to unlock champs and get runes and ended up getting trapped in the costume buying and the new champ every week or so.

Originally posted by Jaylanonyous

 

P2P is not dead, it just needs a game worth paying for.

Isn't that the truth.  Even more so for those who don't find quest hubs and storyline cut scenes appealing.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

(Takes a shot of whiskey, puts a dip in, zips up flame suit)

Whelp, that time again. Time to set people straight GW style.

I keep reading about how the PTP era is dead, were now in the FTP era. It's time I clarify the confusion about this just like I did about what a MMORPG is.

The game in our genre that makes the most money is still thriving as PTP. Who is FTP? All of the games that could not compete with WOW. Why are they FTP? Because no one was willing to pay to play them because they were not of a quality that we the consumer deemed worth 15 of our hard earned $ a month.

FTP is not a route of smart consumer retention, it is the route of failure. MMO players are more than happy to pay you monthly, but since WOW, 0, not 1, not a single MMORPG has come out and been worth PTP. All of them were cheep WOW clones that weren't as good as WOW was 8 years ago. None of them have had innovation. (Other than SWTOR "inventing" story, I forgot that no other games had ever had a story in them prior to SWTOR, thanks for inventing it, I guess Peach was never in the other castle)

I followed them all, I tried most of them, and what did I think? I thought, this is just like WOW, but I already did WOW, and WOW does WOW better than these fools, plus I already put all my time and leveling into that game, why would I want to do it again in this less quality game? It made no sense. In fact I would say every one of the "WOW killers" launched an achilles heel that made it pointless to play. Why would I play them when they came out after WOW, yet had less content and innovation than WOW at launch, I mean the genre should be getting better over time not worse right? Then consider that most of these (which couldn't live up to launch WOW) are coming out against super WOW. The smarter, adjusted over time, friendly feature version of WOW.

Observe:
Aion: Asian WOW with pretty flying things and an insane grind. Why was leveling in this after wow game worse than WOW at launch?

Rift: WOW with more instances and less of the fun stuff WOW had at launch.

LOTR: WOW without PVP in a world based on...a war, makes no sense.

WAR: WOW with slightly more PVP focus and open group quests, yes a 3 tiered "world" that just feels like more instancing. At least WOW was mostly open world at launch. I did love watching Blizz steal, own, and slap WAR with its achievements stuff, taking the rug right out from under them.

AOC: WOW with a bunch of broken promises.

COH: WOW with super heros and less content.

SWTOR: WOW with VO but without the ease of use features and a bunch of overly small lifeless planets, shallow gameplay, and a god awful UI.

The one other MMORPG that has innovation, that is unique, that does something different and offers a very rich, deep experience is EVE, and it is doing fine PTP.

FTP is the route the losers take to steal money scraps from the games that know how to be worth $15 a month. The saddest thing of all is that I hate WOW but will admit it does enough to be worth $15 a month (barely). So the above games that came out couldn't even life up to "barely". (Change of mind, the saddest thing of all is after 12 years we lost the ability to sit in a MMORPGs, pathetic de-evolution at it's worst)

Give us innovation, evolution, uniqueness, and watch how gladly we will have over $15 a month. PTP is dead, lol. PTP is fine. It's the crapfest of rushed, shallow, trite games that make it look dead. FTP is the path the loser takes, lets not mistake that.

If someone asked me to pay $15 for a fresh cut T-Bone Steak I would, if they asked me to pay $15 for a Chuck Steak that had fallen on the floor (into a puddle of meat slime and muddy blood) I would not. I will pay for a product that is worth $15, sadly every MMO since WOW has been chuck steak so they end up in the blue light special discount meat bin that is FTP.

This, a thousand times this, a game goes free to play because it sucks. If its any good we'll pay for it, meanwhile younger broke gamers keep trying to convine us that p2w games rule. Sub games aren't dead, mmos have just sucked and thus died and been resurected to the zombie cash hungry f2p models.

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

COH launched before WoW. Your argument is invalid.

Actually it's invalid because it is another "I'm right, no one else is" troll thread, but the former sounded better.

Originally posted by Xobdnas

My bad, I meant Champions Online. But that reminds me:

DCU: WOW with DC superheros and less content.
COV: WOW with super villains and less content.

CoV is still CoH, but only the other side of the same server :D

You also forgot to list Lineage II... Sucessful as sub for 7 years but went Korean F2P way. Game has NOTHING to do with WoW though :D

Originally posted by Xobdnas

My bad, I meant Champions Online. But that reminds me:

DCU: WOW with DC superheros and less content.
COV: WOW with super villains and less content.

DCU .. so? Where else can you see DC superheroes in a MMO?

So it has less content .. if the content is fun, who cares? Just play, finish and move on.

     In a nutshell, you can say that WoW ruined p2p for everyone else......at least with f2p you can say "ok the game isnt as good as WoW, but its not costing me anything"

"FTP Era" 

Damn, I came to this conversation hoping it was about the good old age of Win95, and WinFTP and "File Transfer Protocol", when we used to upload to sites in the '90s, 1995 and up, using WinFTP.

I'm so disappointed.

---

Originally posted by dragonsi
Damn, I came to this conversation hoping it was about the good old age of Win95, and WinFTP and "File Transfer Protocol", when we used to upload to sites in the '90s, 1995 and up, using WinFTP.

---