No, they did not waste resources on hearts.

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Originally posted by Meowhead
I feel the need to mention I love feeding cows.

That's not sarcasm.  I genuinely did. :x

I like doing things like that.  I know.  I'm such a freak. :c

---

I think I enjoyed cheering them up and making the smelly ones less smelly more :)

I would rather they weren't there but it's obvious how problematic that would be, I fear chat would have been endless questions or statements of 'OMG nothing to do, empty game FTL!'.

"In reality there are a lot of hearts in any given area and the same few repeating events."

This line of the OPs just...staggered me.

In the average zone there's maybe what...a dozen hearts? If? In that same zone, there will be 2-3 DEs that "respawn" at varying times around each heart, maybe 6-10 or more DEs  that require some exploring to find, and 2-5 "patrol" DEs, where the target is a caravan or other moving unit that travels back and forth btween certain points and can be accepted at multiple points across the way. I never felt that there were more DEs tghan hearts in any zone I've been to.

To answer the titlular question....probably not. I wouldn't have minded a system with more DEs and less (or no) hearts, but I can accept them as something needed to prevent from completely alienating people used to traditional MMOs.

No, they didn't waste resources on Hearts. I think it's been a good compliment to the dynamic event system actually.

Storymode though...

Considering their plans to continue updating and adding more DEs, I'd say there wasn't any waste of resources on hearts.

Once I got used to the DE system I stopped looking for or trying to complete hearts, and I found that I still completed a good number of them just by doing whatever DEs were going on around. I didn't really feel that I had to do them just to level, but I also harvest/craft/explore and do some WvW, so maybe without those things it would be more necessary to do all hearts and repeat a lot of DEs.

I also like the fact they become karma merchants. Having more options to sell junk and pick up interesting gear is a good thing.

No.

No. The hearts serve a triple purpose. Somethinf to do, A way to lead you through or around the map and a place to purchase certain somewhat exclusive items.  

People ALWAYS seem to forget that the development of multiple portions of a game are not mutually exclusive. Content developers, and the people who program/designed the hearts system are probably not the same team or department in any way whatsoever. I don't know why, but everyone seems to forget that.

I believe they put the hearts in because people were complaining that they didn't know where to go or what to do. It wasn't in the initial plan. I am sure they could have done more with the events without putting time into the hearts, but it is a little late for that now.

And I agree that the hearts feel very much like boring run of the mill MMO quests. I would have much prefered more events and cranking up the frequency of them. Though, in a zone with high population, there are so many events going on, I don't even know what to do with myself.

We'll see how it plays out on release, but I am pretty happy with what we have currently. I think the hearts are a nice "guide" for those that need/want it. It does really suck when you run around doing the hearts and you hardly see any events though /cry

Only problem I have with hearts is people complaining they are not high enough level to leave a zone after filling all the hearts.... ignoring the fact that hearts are guidelines and the main xp source is DEs

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod).  Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.

 

Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession.  Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.

 

Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature.  Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language.  Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.

 

If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork ;)

O.o

So many things are wrong in your response.

1) Wow came out six months before GW1. In fact devs from Blizzard that worked on WoW jumped ship to develope GW1. So your timelines are a bit suspect along with your point. EQ1 AND 2 also released well before GW1. I beta tested WoW for about 9 months before release... In beta they had quest markers, but hey... You have been spot on with everything else I am  sure you are 100% accurate on this as well. 

2) How you got minority from what I said is beyond me. You need better reading comprehension. The MAJORITY of players out there now, especially the ones that came in with WoW have gotten use to hand holding. Now I never said it was a bad thing, I said in MY opinion I think it is a waste. I cut my teeth in AC and DAoC... I am use to having little to know hand holding. So it is not MY cup of tea however as I already stated I can understand why ANet put the system in.

3) MY OPINION. I stated that several times. I never said hand holding sucks... I never said quest markers sucked. I in FACT said the heart system was well done, but feels out of place from the key features of the game. You response was that I was evangelizing. So yes you were using hyperbole and exageration in your response... AKA Drama.

Shall I go on. Do you wish to continue to derail this thread with innane attacks on me? I was trying to add my opinion peacefully per the OPs questions. You have some sort of delusion which places meaning in my words that were never there nor ever intended. I don't expect that to change, but I will be ignoring you from this point forward as I find no value in anything you have said and as pointed out above you are clearly incorrect on several points which can easily be found. 

The sad truth is, NO, they didn't. I am one of the people who wish they weren't in the game, but I also understand that I am not the only one playing. The simple truth is they did not implement hearts on a whim. They tested the game for a while without them. They did not want to have hearts in the game initially.

However, based on series of tests they did in beta, people kept getting lost without some sort of handholding to guide them. The hearts & scouts were the best way they could figure out to split the difference between having a completely handheld MMO (which they don't want), and an MMO that offers no direction, and instead just has a bunch of content packed everywhere.

This is why completely open games don't generally do that well. People need a certain amount of direction to enjoy anything. It sucks for those of us that prefer to figure things out for ourselves, but we aren't the majority. Not even close. Especially when it comes to entertainment (and games are primarily a form of entertainment), a lot of people just want to go into a game and relax, forget about work, etc. Many people don't want to think, they just want mindless fun.

I will say that the hearts bother me less and less the more I play. They don't take away from the dynamic events, and they do provide some insight as to places that may be worth checking out. They also seem to get a lot more elaborate as they progress.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod).  Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.

 

Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession.  Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.

 

Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature.  Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language.  Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.

 

If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork ;)

O.o

So many things are wrong in your response.

1) Wow came out six months before GW1. In fact devs from Blizzard that worked on WoW jumped ship to develope GW1. So your timelines are a bit suspect along with your point. EQ1 AND 2 also released well before GW1. I beta tested WoW for about 9 months before release... In beta they had quest markers, but hey... You have been spot on with everything else I am  sure you are 100% accurate on this as well. 

2) How you got minority from what I said is beyond me. You need better reading comprehension. The MAJORITY of players out there now, especially the ones that came in with WoW have gotten use to hand holding. Now I never said it was a bad thing, I said in MY opinion I think it is a waste. I cut my teeth in AC and DAoC... I am use to having little to know hand holding. So it is not MY cup of tea however as I already stated I can understand why ANet put the system in.

3) MY OPINION. I stated that several times. I never said hand holding sucks... I never said quest markers sucked. I in FACT said the heart system was well done, but feels out of place from the key features of the game. You response was that I was evangelizing. So yes you were using hyperbole and exageration in your response... AKA Drama.

Shall I go on. Do you wish to continue to derail this thread with innane attacks on me? I was trying to add my opinion peacefully per the OPs questions. You have some sort of delusion which places meaning in my words that were never there nor ever intended. I don't expect that to change, but I will be ignoring you from this point forward as I find no value in anything you have said and as pointed out above you are clearly incorrect on several points which can easily be found. 

1, Yes wow came out first.  However GW1 was the first to introduce quest GOAL markers on the map wow did not have these for a long time after (it was a mod for a long long time).

2, Minority, Vocal minority a term used to describe players who post on actual forums as the vast majority of players in any game do not post on forums.

3, Tone and inflection convey a lot more than content in your posts, you attempted to state that the hearts were some how a concession that Anet didnt want.  Clearly they did or they wouldnt be in, they might not have thought they needed them, but once they realised that the commenting players (or enough of them to take notice of) wanted them, in they went.

Im still unsure how you think this is some how "personal" its a debate, and I disagree with your stance, I have nothing against you as a poster or a gamer and hope you go on to enjoy what ever game you go in.    

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

You are aware that GW 1 was on of the first MMO's to bring in goal markers on maps and mini maps?

 

I have nothing against the heart system, like all systems in this game it adds to the whole package of what makes this a decent mmo, but please dont say silly things like "Didnt want to put them in" just because you would like to evangelicise them.  They put them in, so clearly they wanted to....

Please point out where I was "evangelizing" ANet. 

As to GW1 how is that in any relevance to GW2? BTW both WoW and EQ2 were released before GW1... Those are two prime examples of MMOs with quest markers before GW1 was release so lets not pretend GW1 coined the idea. 

Devs have been on record as saying the heart system was put in in response to feedback. So no, I don't think they originally intended them. They feel out of place compared to everything else in the game which has a focus on exploration. 

It was my opinion, but please feel free to keep going at me without reason. What this forum needs is more unwarranted drama. 

Wow did not add in map based goal markers untill very late in the game and certainly after they saw them in GW 1 and EQ (And in the quest helper mod).  Prior to that it was just read the quest text and find your way.

 

Now they might have not originally thought of putting them in, they might not have been something that occured to them, but saying they dint want to in the fashion you did implies they only did it to please the lowest common denominator, you made it sound like it some how dilluted the purity of the game and that Anet only did it as some kind of concession.  Now sure, if you think handholding is a dirty word (as was your implication) then go for it, I am simply pointing out that Anet was one of the first to bring in full on hand holding breadcrumb trails in MMOS thats all.

 

Fact is once they had the idea, they upsold it as a a feature.  Its hardly drama, its simply the case that when discussing Anet here or on massively or PC gamer people change their language.  Any feature that is deemed too "hipster" is instantly the fault of the vocal minority or something the developers didnt want.

 

If you dont like a spade say so, but dont try and tell me it sucks at digging up earth because its a fork ;)

O.o

So many things are wrong in your response.

1) Wow came out six months before GW1. In fact devs from Blizzard that worked on WoW jumped ship to develope GW1. So your timelines are a bit suspect along with your point. EQ1 AND 2 also released well before GW1. I beta tested WoW for about 9 months before release... In beta they had quest markers, but hey... You have been spot on with everything else I am  sure you are 100% accurate on this as well. 

2) How you got minority from what I said is beyond me. You need better reading comprehension. The MAJORITY of players out there now, especially the ones that came in with WoW have gotten use to hand holding. Now I never said it was a bad thing, I said in MY opinion I think it is a waste. I cut my teeth in AC and DAoC... I am use to having little to know hand holding. So it is not MY cup of tea however as I already stated I can understand why ANet put the system in.

3) MY OPINION. I stated that several times. I never said hand holding sucks... I never said quest markers sucked. I in FACT said the heart system was well done, but feels out of place from the key features of the game. You response was that I was evangelizing. So yes you were using hyperbole and exageration in your response... AKA Drama.

Shall I go on. Do you wish to continue to derail this thread with innane attacks on me? I was trying to add my opinion peacefully per the OPs questions. You have some sort of delusion which places meaning in my words that were never there nor ever intended. I don't expect that to change, but I will be ignoring you from this point forward as I find no value in anything you have said and as pointed out above you are clearly incorrect on several points which can easily be found. 

1, Yes wow came out first.  However GW1 was the first to introduce quest GOAL markers on the map wow did not have these for a long time after (it was a mod for a long long time).

 

2, Minority, Vocal minority a term used to describe players who post on actual forums as the vast majority of players in any game do not post on forums.

 

3, Tone and inflection convey a lot more than content in your posts, you attempted to state that the hearts were some how a concession that Anet didnt want.  Clearly they did or they wouldnt be in, they might not have thought they needed them, but once they realised that the commenting players (or enough of them to take notice of) wanted them, in they went.

 

Im still unsure how you think this is some how "personal" its a debate, and I disagree with your stance, I have nothing against you as a poster or a gamer and hope you go on to enjoy what ever game you go in.    

He must be too young to know that WoW introduced them much later.

Originally posted by Kothoses

1, Yes wow came out first.  However GW1 was the first to introduce quest GOAL markers on the map wow did not have these for a long time after (it was a mod for a long long time).

 I failed at reading comprehension on this point. You did originally state quest goals which you are correct were not on the map in WoW at release. People are alergic to admitting they are wrong on these boards, but I am man enough to admit when I am. 

2, Minority, Vocal minority a term used to describe players who post on actual forums as the vast majority of players in any game do not post on forums.

 This is true, but the change came about because of TESTER feedback which is a precise pool. We are not talking about general MMO boards like this one or official forums after release. We are talking about a closed testing where anyone playing SHOULD be giving feedback. In a closed beta test the term vocal minority really has no place. 

3, Tone and inflection convey a lot more than content in your posts, you attempted to state that the hearts were some how a concession that Anet didnt want.  Clearly they did or they wouldnt be in, they might not have thought they needed them, but once they realised that the commenting players (or enough of them to take notice of) wanted them, in they went.

 You were able to determine tone and inflection through a written post? Come on man. That is one of the most absurd things I have read on any forum. One of the reasons written format is so hard to infer emotion is because you cannot use tone and inflection. Please elaborate on this one. I can't find the interview, but ANet has stated that event markers (hearts) were added due to tester feedback because there was no sense of direction in the game. They said it themselves and I really wish I could find the quote for you.

Im still unsure how you think this is some how "personal" its a debate, and I disagree with your stance, I have nothing against you as a poster or a gamer and hope you go on to enjoy what ever game you go in.  

When you start throwing around terms like evangelizing... Yes it is personal. If you want to refute my opinions (which I clearly stated they were) than do so. I am not the only one here that feels this way about hearts yet my posts are the only ones you are going after. Why?

I don't think anyone can look at my post history and call me a GW2 hater. Most would call me a fanboy. I have waited years for this game and will be playing it religiously for quite a while. That does not mean I have to love every aspect of the game. It does has flaws in MY OPINION. Now you may not agree with my opinion but there is nothing really to debate. I already stated from the very beginning that I understand why renown hearts are in the game and that they are done well. Not sure what more you are looking for from me. Renown hearts or not some mystical orgasmic new system that EVERYONE must love. So I am playing GW2 at release... prepurchased an hour after it became availible. Just because I don't like the heart system does not mean I hate the game (like you seem to indicate). 

Hearts give consistancy to the game, i don't see how they could even be considered as "waste" of anything.

Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
hearts are just there as another type of entertaiment, i just use them to get a direction when moving to a new area.

^ This. It gives a sense of direction in the zones like "Hey, there's stuff over here, and here, and all the way over there, you should check these out." It gives you something to do when you aren't doing what the majority of your XP gains will come from (gathering, exploring, skill challeneges, waypoint/point of interest unlocks).

A few guildies and I were running around one of the zones (believe it was Kessex Hills) and we found a Renown heart we didn't do on the map and decided to go do it. Well, it led us into a cave where a  Hylek NPC turned us into Pigs to go collect some mushrooms or some crap from insect burrows. The icing on the cake was that vendor had some upgrades to our underwater weapons and there was a long water-filled tunnel that led out of the cave and into the surrounding lake with mobs to go use them on.

Originally posted by atziluth

Originally posted by Kothoses

 

When you start throwing around terms like evangelizing... Yes it is personal. If you want to refute my opinions (which I clearly stated they were) than do so. I am not the only one here that feels this way about hearts yet my posts are the only ones you are going after. Why?

I don't think anyone can look at my post history and call me a GW2 hater. Most would call me a fanboy. I have waited years for this game and will be playing it religiously for quite a while. That does not mean I have to love every aspect of the game. It does has flaws in MY OPINION. Now you may not agree with my opinion but there is nothing really to debate. I already stated from the very beginning that I understand why renown hearts are in the game and that they are done well. Not sure what more you are looking for from me. Renown hearts or not some mystical orgasmic new system that EVERYONE must love. So I am playing GW2 at release... prepurchased an hour after it became availible. Just because I don't like the heart system does not mean I hate the game (like you seem to indicate). 

 

Fair enough, I apologise (or apologize) if I came across as debating the person rather than the point this was not my intention.

Aslo the term Evangelicising, yeah it may be a bit too hyperbolish so fair point on that one.

As for what I meant by tone and inflection, well the wording you use can be just as toneful and inflection filled as actual tone and inflection.  It struck me you were attempting to paint a picture where the hearts were some evil thing, a concession to the "Dumbing down" of the genre (another phrase I hate because it gets thrown around with out any real context especially on these forums).

I was not looking for anything from you just attempting to clarify and elaborate a little as I really did not want to get into a tit for tat argument (If I want that I will just go talk about SWTOR and then wait for the doom mongering haters to show up).

They wasted time on it catering for the unimaginative and/or inexperienced who need to be lead by the nosering through their online experience - either initially, or all time....

This was an unfortunate necessity.

That some people now think it's a reason to criticise them just goes to show how basic reasoning can break down when faced with even fairly simple principles.

Was it a waste? - yes - forced on them by those now prone to criticising them for doing it! lol

Well the old saying proves true once again - "You can't please all the people, all of the time".

Do something different - get criticised that it isn't enough, or it is too much. Do something familiar to assist people who can't cope with the new and get shot down again by the armchair critics.

ANet must have the patience of saints....