to me a sandbox game doesn't need to be a game where the whole thing is built by players that doesn't even make sense. all I want is freedom to do whatever I want. If I want to go maked some stuff and make money I can do it, if I want to quest a little I can do it, if I wanna go kill shit I can do it. No linear gameplay. I guess you could say I like themepark games but I want to choose what ride I want to ride and when I want to ride it. one of the rides could be a sandbox..

I prefer sandbox over themeparks because I enjoy the fact that I can create my own objectives, be whatever I want, do whatever I want.

I've been playing Haven & Hearth and I'm loving it, this game is unique!

Graphics are not a big deal for me and personaly I love games with 2D (sprite) graphics and isometric perspective, it looks charming.

The only problem I see in the game right now is that it lags A LOT! Hopefuly when this issue gets fixed I won't fell the need to play anything else.

I was thinking of creating my own sandbox MMO, unfortunately, it looks nearly impossible to accomplish this on my own.

(Puts on gloves, puts a dip in, puts on tool belt)

Welp, looks like I have some clarifying to do, again.

Sandboxes are MMORPGs

Themeparks are MMODCs (DC=dungeon crawlers)

Originally posted by theJexster

(Puts on gloves, puts a dip in, puts on tool belt)

Welp, looks like I have some clarifying to do, again.

Sandboxes are MMORPGs

Themeparks are MMODCs (DC=dungeon crawlers)

Many dungeon crawlers are also RPGs. Just because you have a pre-set adventure doesn't mean you don't role play. Even sandbox games have objectives like themeparks. You just don't NEED to do them is the difference. So yeah:

Sandboxes are MMORPGs

Themeparks are MMORPGs

I still to this day do not understand why one of the most prolific sandbox games did not receive more aclaim.

I do understand how difficult it must have been to develop, and the simple nature of the game might have been ahead of its time in terms of hardware, but I have played many other MMOs since its release (almost all of them) and nothing seemed to come close.

I am talking about SWG (preNGE).

I in fact never got involved in the jedi grind, but it seemed to have everything a gamer who wanted to actually ROLEPLAY in a ONLINE community would have wanted.

Correct me if I am wrong, but did it not have the most complex and immense leveling system in a game.

I have yet to find a game with a crafting system as complete and fullfilling as SWG's crafting system. I still remember having to wait 9 months after the game release before I could get the elite carbine becuase the rare material for it never spawned.

The housing system has yet to be matched, and the decoratioin mechanics was so amazing.

The combat was actually rather bland and unbalanced, but regardless, I have yet to play a game that offered the same satasfaction as SWG in terms of reward for work put in.

It seemed to offer many things no other game to date has been able to offer and seemed to have the largest room for improvement. Has there be a MMO since that had total game size as big as SWG?

It really does seem like, a game that was just too difficult to develop, and it seems like games now, are just going for the easy money. Create a game, put a limit on how much a player can do by making them travel absurd distances or wait a day - week before they can do it again, forcing them to do nothing but stay subscribed with no real challenge.

I would MUCH!!! rather have to follow this path to get a rare item; Hunt Kryats for a rare drop (Exceptional Kryat Dragon Pearl). Find a Weaponsmith who has the schematic for the Geo blaster I want, find the highest quality versions of 4 of 1000 different resource forms, craft the weapon and decide how I want the weapon to scale... High damage, low attack speed, moderate pool cost... medium damage, very fast attack speed, low resource (stamina) cost.

Something that if you wanted, you could get in a day, but it would take work.

Instead of how games are now. "OOOO the new best in slot item.... time to run this once instan, which takes 7 hours to get through,  to try and get it... ooo it didn't drop,,, wait a week repeat... oo it did drop... oo somebody else rolled higher.... wait another week repeat... ooo i won the roll yay I am now on the same level as somebody who got really lucky and I am better than somebody who isn't lucky"....

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Originally posted by Hadleyrand12
I am talking about SWG (preNGE).

I in fact never got involved in the jedi grind, but it seemed to have everything a gamer who wanted to actually ROLEPLAY in a ONLINE community would have wanted.

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Originally posted by Banquetto

 

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Originally posted by Hadleyrand12
I am talking about SWG (preNGE).

 

I in fact never got involved in the jedi grind, but it seemed to have everything a gamer who wanted to actually ROLEPLAY in a ONLINE community would have wanted.

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What's the overlap, though, between gamers who wanted to actually roleplay in an online community, and fans of Star Wars - which, let's face it, is about as mindless and action-packed as space opera gets? It probably wasn't an ideal match of IP and game design.

 

Obviously enough that the original SWG was reasonably successful. Not as big as Everquest but decent.  SWG had its best time in 2003-2005. In the time after the NGE, subscriotions went down a lot, until the game closed last year. 

The numbers are pretty persuasive. Check out these statistics: http://users.telenet.be/mmodata/Charts/Subs-2.png

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Originally posted by Rabiator
Obviously enough that the original SWG was reasonably successful. Not as big as Everquest but decent.  SWG had its best time in 2003-2005. In the time after the NGE, subscriotions went down a lot, until the game closed last year. 

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I'd actually be interested to know how many SW:G enthusiasts really consider themselves Star Wars fans. I don't, and I think the fact that SW:G didn't pursue the space opera made it more appealing to me.

Originally posted by Banquetto

Oh, indeed. But Hadleyrand12 was expressing surprise that it wasn't more successful. I'm not sure that it really could have been, I think it was fundamentally appealing to two groups that didn't really overlap that much.

I'd actually be interested to know how many SW:G enthusiasts really consider themselves Star Wars fans. I don't, and I think the fact that SW:G didn't pursue the space opera made it more appealing to me.

Well, yes. Maybe I should have worded my post differently. I was commenting on the fact that a not dumbed down SWG did better than the simplified version post-NGE.

Considering the absolute number of subscribers, I guess the people who really enjoy a sandbox are just not that many. Today, the most succesful sandbox is EVE Online, and with maybe 400k subscribers, it is not much bigger than SWG at its peak popularity.

where's the poll?

There needs to be a poll to see if sandbox is more popular then themepark.

Originally posted by Jonoku

There needs to be a poll to see if sandbox is more popular then themepark.

The results woudl be skewed.

Depending on the site that posted the poll you would see results one way or the other.

Originally posted by jpnz

Originally posted by Brenelael

Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

 

 But it does.  There are areas with towers of keeps you can control (Eastern plaguelands) and I'm told in Lich King expansion (I've never actually played this) there are more player controlled areas like this.

In a PVP realm in Wow there is nothing stopping a guild or players from controlling one particular zone and fighting to keep it (south shore anyway - a major gankfest of just horde killing alliance). 

No WoW cannot improve (I allready talked about building) those areas but they can keep them.

The spying, invasions, defense, that can all be done in WoW.  It normally isn't but it can be.

And if control territory is what sets them apart what apart all the so-called sandboxes that don't allow that - Istaria for one.

Venge

edit - since those can be done in WoW but the population chooses not to most of the time, does this mean that a major difference between sandbox and themepark is simply choice?

edit - aside from what bladstrom and I allready decided.  :)

The difference is in WoW the Developers decided which areas players can control. In EVE the players decide. Also In WoW the Developers chose the factions for the players. In EVE this is also left totally up to the players. In WoW the players controlled areas are on a timer... once the timer resets the areas are up for grabs again. In EVE a Corp can hold an area for years if they are strong enough. In WoW if you don't want to be a part of the area control system you can wander through without any concern. In EVE if you go into a another Corp's space you better have a damn good reason for being there.

 

The territory control system in EVE is nothing like what is in WoW.

 

Bren

The underline text is not technically 100% true.

Only 0.0 which CCP (the developers of EVE) decides can be player controlled.

Technically your statement isn't correct either. Deep Nullsec is the only area of space that players can own by directly claiming Sovreignty...but players can "own" space without ever claiming Sovreignty. In fact, that's how players owned Nullsec before the Sovreignty system was even introduced. A player-owned-station (POS) can be set up to do pretty much anything you want in a base, from mining to mineral processing to ship construction to defense. If your corp sets up a good set of POS's in several systems and you have a good group of players both industrial and combat based to supply and defend them, and you could easily claim to "own" that space even though you may not have Sovreignty. This is how wormhole and lowsec space gets owned. The combined number of nullsec, lowsec and wormhole systems significantly outnumber the number of Hisec systems, so in fact players can own most of the Eve universe.

guess I like both

it depends on what you're doing with it ^^

if you just hang out there, themeparks are boring, but if you can really start having fun there, it  great ^^

i like dungeon and raiding, so i like themepark more than sandboxes

I hate the wiki definitions of what either is that have skewed what people think either is. I would love a hybrid of the two, and no, I don't think it would require twice the assests(number one argument against a hybrid).

I think you could have a game with an overlying themepark, but with lots of sandbox elements.

after playing Darkfall for a long while and then cancelling my sub due to some retarded devs and lack of fixs and updates i have to say that i love games where you're free to do as you want. darkfall brought a good portion of that but lacked the developers attention to the community. overall i think sandbox is a better genere of mmorpg that theme park mmos would never match up to

This thread is like asking: Which is better?  The open ocean, or a moderated wave pool? 

Both sandbox and themepark have their ups and downs.  Sandbox requires making your own content with the game's mechanics at your disposal.  Themepark is fully based on content delivered to you.  Lack of content in a themepark and the gameplay goes flat. 

It's obvious which type of MMO would be cheaper to develop.  If you deliver enough content with various little things that maintain the feel of immersion, people will play a sandbox for a very long time.  I mean look at SWG.  Even after it closed down, there are still a majority of people trying to revive the pre-cu era of the game.  Another perfect example is Eve Online. 

I'll be greedy and say both.  I would like to tailor fit my character without class presets and build my own entities in a completely seemless world.  At the same time I also like the idea of a main world story and the occational dungeon run.  I think if you took away the predictable elements of themepark games and applied them to a sandbox world you would end up with a game almost anyone could play.