Originally posted by Ausare
I like how people think a company is greedy because it is trying to make money.

Largely because people dont realise there is a huge difference betwine a free to play game and a free game.

there are not really fre games at all

I play Istaria and it is really F2P - no item shop, no possibility to buy advancement to certain level.  Yes, if you want other races than human and want a land plot - you should consider paying, but if you are satisfied with human and no land - you can experience 100% of game content. Therefore I'm satisfied and consider this game to be F2P, not B2W.

Originally posted by rdrakken

Originally posted by MightyBee

 

I've just realised that I'm spending a way too much on the free-to-play games. It's like... 10 euro paysafe voucher there, 10 euro here and in the end I have lots of fun playing the LotR online, for example, but it's not for free anymore.

What about you guys? What free-to-play games do you like? Is there something out there I've missed? :)

 LoTRo is not F2P its Pay trap.

Any game claiming to be F2P yet has something like a VIP account where everything is "unlocked" is not F2P, its paytrap.

A real F2P games content is 100% free...they make their money via selling items in a shop.

Vindictus, Runes of Magic, Atlantica Online, Allods, Aion...all free and many of them are far better than most current subscription based games.

P.S. Avoid the paytrap games like LoTRo, EQ2, AoC, City of Heroes...they werent worth a sub...sure not worth the trap.

In LOTRO you can unlock everything if you have the time and stamina to farm Turbine Points and that IMO is trully free to play.

Originally posted by MightyBee

 

I've just realised that I'm spending a way too much on the free-to-play games. It's like... 10 euro paysafe voucher there, 10 euro here and in the end I have lots of fun playing the LotR online, for example, but it's not for free anymore.

What about you guys? What free-to-play games do you like? Is there something out there I've missed? :)

Thats the entire point to the f2p system, you spend lots in the cash shops and usually a lot more than you would with a sub game...

Companies are out to make money funny enough.. they are not going to give you somthing totally free otherwise they would be out of business..

I work on a game that is F2P and we have many who do play it exactly that way we also have a high percentage who pay about the same cost a month into the game but we also have that tiny % who spend obscene amounts in a month.

I have seen some spend more in a weekend than I earn in a month I just cannot fathom it.

It pretty much works outthat 50% will play for free,  40% will meet the arpu you expect and 10% will essentially cover the costs of the 50% of f2p and be your profit.

Without these big spenders F2P wouldnt exist.

Originally posted by thamighty213

I work on a game that is F2P and we have many who do play it exactly that way we also have a high percentage who pay about the same cost a month into the game but we also have that tiny % who spend obscene amounts in a month.

 

I have seen some spend more in a weekend than I earn in a month I just cannot fathom it.

 

It pretty much works outthat 50% will play for free,  40% will meet the arpu you expect and 10% will essentially cover the costs of the 50% of f2p and be your profit.

 

Without these big spenders F2P wouldnt exist.

Very insightful post, should be stickied at the top of every F2P discussion on these forums.

Especially this last comment, it's these folks who really carry any F2P title, especially if it has a P2W philosophy.

CCP had their Greed is Good internal memo leaked last year and their research showed that the most profitable cash shop items are those that gave an advanatage to a player. 

Unfortunately, they also found out that these same items cause a large segement of the community to rise up in outrage so definitely a two edge sword.

While I doubt we'll ever see P2W items in EVE, I fully expect them to try and introduce these tactical advantage items in Worlds of Darkness.

Back to the OP, I found Lineage 2's F2P model to be pretty much without restrictions, as long as you don't mind grinding your brains out which is how the original game was designed, nothing was changed just to support the cash shop.

But at the upper levels, most players find it worthwhile to buy the experience boosters, even with them its still a pretty long climb to the top for most folks.

To the f2p titles I like to add STO. Ok, it has it's pay-to-win aspects, and some greedy money-grabbing mechanics (namely lockboxes), but you can avoid them. If you don't wanna be the top of every chart, or pvp massively, it's a nice model. And if you plan to focus on pve, star trekking and good story missions, it's even better. (some Foundry missions are hilarious)

You got fewer vault  and inv. space, and EC limit, but it's not a big barrier until you reach VA, and those limits can be lifted with a purchase in store. Beside that, the whole game is open. You also can receive CPoints from the game, not much, but enough for some occasional purchases.

Originally posted by Kyleran

Originally posted by thamighty213

I work on a game that is F2P and we have many who do play it exactly that way we also have a high percentage who pay about the same cost a month into the game but we also have that tiny % who spend obscene amounts in a month.

 

I have seen some spend more in a weekend than I earn in a month I just cannot fathom it.

 

It pretty much works outthat 50% will play for free,  40% will meet the arpu you expect and 10% will essentially cover the costs of the 50% of f2p and be your profit.

 

Without these big spenders F2P wouldnt exist.

Very insightful post, should be stickied at the top of every F2P discussion on these forums.

Especially this last comment, it's these folks who really carry any F2P title, especially if it has a P2W philosophy.

CCP had their Greed is Good internal memo leaked last year and their research showed that the most profitable cash shop items are those that gave an advanatage to a player. 

Unfortunately, they also found out that these same items cause a large segement of the community to rise up in outrage so definitely a two edge sword.

While I doubt we'll ever see P2W items in EVE, I fully expect them to try and introduce these tactical advantage items in Worlds of Darkness.

Back to the OP, I found Lineage 2's F2P model to be pretty much without restrictions, as long as you don't mind grinding your brains out which is how the original game was designed, nothing was changed just to support the cash shop.

But at the upper levels, most players find it worthwhile to buy the experience boosters, even with them its still a pretty long climb to the top for most folks.

 

 

 

Yea agreed mostly.

For World of Darkness - I think there already are rumors going that it will be F2P or some kind of Freemium title.

I agree with you and I definately expect CCP to put microtransactions in WoD. 

That's why I kinda will skip this game if my and many others foretelling will come to true.

Cannot see myself playing cash shop based sandbox.

As for advantage items. Yeah they sell best.  Even if that's just relatively small-to-medium advantage like stat tomes in Lotro - they hit best selling items when they were introduced and keep near the top while I was played. Especially if there was some kind of "discount" for them.

Cosmetic / vanity stuff never sold in comparable quantites.

Now when F2P / Freemium / Cash shop  market is expanding at absolutely rapid place, it's novelity wear off and there are hordes of games with that model (s), many of companies will be tempted or forced to introduce more advantage items / perks or increase advantage they give - in order to keep enough of money flowing and investors happy.

Well. I don't mind paying for games. I never downloaded or copied one. But I feel myself fooled around when they call their game free and in the end I still have to pay for it. 

Originally posted by MightyBee

Well. I don't mind paying for games. I never downloaded or copied one. But I feel myself fooled around when they call their game free and in the end I still have to pay for it. 

You are just one of the many that are finally coming around to getting it.

Originally posted by thamighty213

I work on a game that is F2P and we have many who do play it exactly that way we also have a high percentage who pay about the same cost a month into the game but we also have that tiny % who spend obscene amounts in a month.

I have seen some spend more in a weekend than I earn in a month I just cannot fathom it.

It pretty much works outthat 50% will play for free,  40% will meet the arpu you expect and 10% will essentially cover the costs of the 50% of f2p and be your profit.

Without these big spenders F2P wouldnt exist.

If 40% of the players were spending in your F2P game, it would be massive industry news. So either you have the industry's best kept secret, or you're grossly misinformed. Care to share what game it is?

Games can be free but you always end up wanting something in game. When I play SD Gundam Capsule Fighter Online I spent 5 dollars and rented a gundam the first day I played. Then I realized I can get all the gundams I want if I just play the game.

It really depends on which games you play and how badly you want something. In the end the main thing is just to have fun. It's only a couple of dollars and companies need to make money. If you enjoy playing then I think its okay to spend some money. 

You can say its a free to play if it can be played 100% free or if you're going to spend a money, It must be your own choice where to spend it.

Originally posted by MightyBee

 

I've just realised that I'm spending a way too much on the free-to-play games. It's like... 10 euro paysafe voucher there, 10 euro here and in the end I have lots of fun playing the LotR online, for example, but it's not for free anymore.

What about you guys? What free-to-play games do you like? Is there something out there I've missed? :)

I actually went through a brief period of F2P games. Some of them I really enjoyed, others not so much. Some did a decent job w/ the cash shop, others not so much. I enjoyed Vindictus / Global Agenda for a while, but don't really play them anymore. D&D was also pretty fun for a bit.

The thing I really like about F2P games is that they are only as expensive as you allow them to be. This does require a bit of self-discipline, but if you are able to control your cash flow, it's harder to waste money on a F2P game you don't enjoy, than on one w/ a standard sub.

Originally posted by aesperus

The thing I really like about F2P games is that they are only as expensive as you allow them to be. This does require a bit of self-discipline, but if you are able to control your cash flow, it's harder to waste money on a F2P game you don't enjoy, than on one w/ a standard sub.

 

I totally agree. It is completely free when you have enough self-discipline to actually NOT spend any amount of cash and it can be really expensive if you find yourself wanting all the items on the cash shop.

There are a lot of MMOs where other players sell their cash items for high amounts of gold (or whatever the game's currency is). If you can afford to buy those with your game's currency, then there will be no need to spend real money. Therefore, the game becomes completely free to play.

Well, feel free to disagree if you want.