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Guild Wars 2

Guild Wars 2 

General Discussion  » Is it me or GW2 PAY 2 WIN game?

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481 posts found
  bcbully

Elite Member

Joined: 3/03/12
Posts: 6476

7/08/12 9:05:41 AM#421
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by Adalwulff
Originally posted by Creslin321
Originally posted by seridan
Originally posted by Creslin321

 

But I will say that several people would view being successful and showing that success to society as "winning." In fact, successful people in society are often referred to as "winners."

By this logic, The Secret World which has a Cash Shop with ONLY pretty costumes is also P2W. Guild Wars 1 with a CS full of pretty costumes is also full of P2W, WoW as well with the mounts in the CS.

I don't see it as an "issue" against GW2 here, but instead an issue against RMT and Cash Shops in general, their very existance no matter what they have on offer.

 

To some folks...yep I bet the TSW cash shop would be P2W. To me, it isn't, but that's not saying that it isn't for everyone.

 

The only issue I personally have with the GW2 cash shop is that you can buy in game gold (and thus anything in the AH). But really, that doesn't even bother me much. I'm really just arguing against people who are acting like the GW2 cash shop will have no effect on the game whatsoever ;),

 

Thats because its not effecting the game or the players, something you seem a little bias about. You lost credibility when you said the CS in TSW is not P2W but GW2s shop is?

Ive seen both and there are clearly more advantages to buy in TSW that GW2.

I know absolutely nothing about the CS in TSW as I do not play, nor have I been following that game.  I was responding directly to Seridan who said that TSW's cash has only cosmetic stuff.

And I personally do not consider that P2W, though I can understand why others with different viewpoints would.

Also...why must a purchased item affect other players to be "P2W?"  Can you not "win" at single player games?  Is "winning" only a factor when other people are involved?

And that has been my point through this entire thread...the definition of P2W is so nebulous that every poster just twists it to suit their arguments.  All I am saying is that you CAN DEFINITELY buy an advantage in GW2 with real money.  I do not think that advantage will be a huge deal for the game, but it is there.

Outright denying that the cash shop will have any influence on the game is just as bad as crowing that GW2 is flat-out P2W.

The guy who made the comment in orange hasn't played either.

 

The TSW CS is 100% cosmetic. No cash to gold systems, no BoE items, not even XP pots. The GW2 CS and the TSW CS are very different. This should be expected though. One is a sub based game the other is B2P. 

  Raven

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

7/08/12 9:11:27 AM#422
Originally posted by Meleagar

I'm still trying to figure out what the "win" in P2W means in GW2.  What do you "win", even if you can buy all the best gear out of the cash shop? Does having all he best gear mean you "win", when everyone else can get equal gear any number of ways that do not require money?

Even **if** they put such gear in the cash shop, and even **if** you defined "winning" as "having the best gear", at best it would be a "Pay 2 Tie" cash shop.

Perhaps you define "winning" as being able to dominate in PvP? Or PvE? How is that going to happen when you only have the same power gear as others, and in GW2 it's far, far more about skill than stats or gear?

I'm not sure the people who make thse kinds of threads or comments really understand the GW2 game design.

That is a philosophy question and applies to any game, even if you can buy a weapon that can one shot everything in your line of sight in a pvp game, what do you win? If you use Wallhacks and aimbots in an FPS what do you win? "winning" is always gonna be subjective under any circunstance.

Like you said Win is subjective. P2W is mentioned when I can achieve something by paying that someone else needs to achieve through playing the game longer than the time it takes me to put in my credit card details, it doesnt mean you win a medal, it means you have achieved the goal of getting something that took someone else considerably more time.

The highlighted bit, you go on to say that all the gear has the same power, then on the next few words you say that skill matters more than stats, which is a contradiction, you either have the exact same stats on everything or you dont, if you have 1 more stat on something over the other then, gear doesnt have the same power, because two players playing at the exact same skill level the one with one more stat point is going to have the advantage.

 

So then that gear with 1 more stat point is an advantage. So player A levels up does a few of the dungeons and gets a piece of gear with one more stat point, player B levels up and through the cash shop gets ingame money that allows him to buy the piece of gear with one more stat point from another player, he has now paid to win, it doesnt matter if he is actually going to win against anyone for all we know he might not even know how to play the game, but he still paid to win ( acquire ) something that took someone else more time to achieve through in game means. This goes for anything, even if its just a feather you add onto your hat.

 

Edit: In case you havent noticed P2W the Win doesnt mean you are going to win a medal it means you  acquired something, for cash rather than through in game means, someone killed 1000 goblins and won a feather to put on their hat, someone took their credit card out and won a feather to put on their hat, the latter paid to win something, that the earlier had to play to achieve, so that cheapens the experience for the player who actually went and got the feather to put on their hat in game. 

  Skyy_High

Novice Member

Joined: 12/03/10
Posts: 140

7/08/12 9:18:35 AM#423
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Skyy_High

This entire argument is flawed, because different people have different definitions of what "win" means. 

For some people, grinding in-game to get the most awesome uber loot (even if that just means the most awesome LOOKING loot) is the be-all-and-end-all of the game. That's the entire point of the game to them, and if someone else can just come in and pay for some gems, convert it to gold, and then use that gold to buy whatever rare items they want, that person has just paid to "win the game". 

For other people, grinding for gold is not "noble" in and of itself, and doesn't deserve "protection". Some people have lots of time to spend farming gold, and they should be able to. Other people don't have the time to spend farming for gold, and those people should have access to all the cool looking gear in the game that the farmers have access to, because it's all for show anyway (stats are easily maxed, remember). Conversely, farmers can use this system to buy items that cost most people real money (by buying gems). Everyone gets to use whatever resource they have (time for gold, or real life money) to get what they want, so everyone wins, because it's PvE and no one should be viewing this as a competition. 

These viewpoints are fundamentally exclusive to each other. People who hold one viewpoint will always be talking past the people who hold the other. There is really no way to resolve this argument. ANet has chosen its position (which is that everyone should be able to afford anything, given enough time or money, because they're not selling power so everything else should just be for fun anyway), and if you viscerally disagree with that, there really isn't much else for you to do but not play the game. There WILL be people who are playing the game who bought gold via gems, and turned it into some shiny sword. Of course, those people exist in EVERY game. ANet's just legitimizing the practice. If you can't handle that...sorry, your goals and definitions of "winning" differ from mine, and ANet's. 

 

At the person above me: see, the reason that you're so vitriolic about this is (looking at your sig) that you think that the cash shop is going to significantly affect WvW. To this, I have two observations:

1) If true, that means that even without the gold -> gem exchange, teams would be able to achieve a significant advantage in WvW via gold farming. Is that really that much better?

2) Look at the influence boosts you can get in WvW. They are absolutely tiny. If *that* is the extent to which P2W exists in GW2, I can't imagine getting upset about it. Population disparities will affect WvW waaaaaay more than influence spending will. 

So would it also be ok if the cash shop sold a sword that gave you those same "tiny" performance boosts?

Not really the same thing. A +10 sword is always going to be more powerful and useful than the +9 sword. Even if it doesn't make a difference all the time, there will be occasions when it does, just by the virtue of the fact that you're using it over a long period of time. Given that all other gear (no matter the source: drops, loot, dungeons, karma, etc) is normalized to the same stats, one can easily say that gear is supposed to be "balanced", and that the +10 sword would upset that balance. 

On the other hand, WvW isn't balanced, at all. You're never going to be participating in a "balanced" fight. In this context, the pathetic stat bonuses you get from influence (+40 to an attribute that will be over 1000) are literally negligible, because they're just going to vanish in the noise of all of the other WvW unbalancing factors which will have a FAR greater affect on the game. Gold farming is going to matter more than influence spending. Population imbalances are going to trump pretty much anything else. 

Lastly: the influence system is a fundamental part of the guild system. Until release, we really have no idea if the influence costs for these upgrades are going to be high enough to warrant buying gems to buy gold to buy influence. There are only 61 outposts in WvW, and not all of them are really worth spending influence to get these tiny boosts (because the fighting won't consistently happen around them). If it turns out that large WvW-focused guilds are capable of holding keeps and paying for upgrades without resorting to buying gold, then the entire premise of influence allowing for P2W falls apart. There is a maximum cap for how much influence (and, ergo, gold) you can spend on WvW boosts, because each boost takes quite a while to research. Therefore, if the rate of influence acquisition in a large guild is sufficient to pay for these boosts on its own, there is no possibility of "P2W", because buying extra influence won't make a difference in the slightest. 

  gainesvilleg

Apprentice Member

Joined: 2/27/11
Posts: 1087

7/08/12 9:33:11 AM#424
Originally posted by Skyy_High
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Skyy_High
 

2) Look at the influence boosts you can get in WvW. They are absolutely tiny. If *that* is the extent to which P2W exists in GW2, I can't imagine getting upset about it. Population disparities will affect WvW waaaaaay more than influence spending will. 

So would it also be ok if the cash shop sold a sword that gave you those same "tiny" performance boosts?

Not really the same thing. A +10 sword is always going to be more powerful and useful than the +9 sword. Even if it doesn't make a difference all the time, there will be occasions when it does, just by the virtue of the fact that you're using it over a long period of time. Given that all other gear (no matter the source: drops, loot, dungeons, karma, etc) is normalized to the same stats, one can easily say that gear is supposed to be "balanced", and that the +10 sword would upset that balance. 

On the other hand, WvW isn't balanced, at all. You're never going to be participating in a "balanced" fight. In this context, the pathetic stat bonuses you get from influence (+40 to an attribute that will be over 1000) are literally negligible, because they're just going to vanish in the noise of all of the other WvW unbalancing factors which will have a FAR greater affect on the game. Gold farming is going to matter more than influence spending. Population imbalances are going to trump pretty much anything else. 

Lastly: the influence system is a fundamental part of the guild system. Until release, we really have no idea if the influence costs for these upgrades are going to be high enough to warrant buying gems to buy gold to buy influence. There are only 61 outposts in WvW, and not all of them are really worth spending influence to get these tiny boosts (because the fighting won't consistently happen around them). If it turns out that large WvW-focused guilds are capable of holding keeps and paying for upgrades without resorting to buying gold, then the entire premise of influence allowing for P2W falls apart. There is a maximum cap for how much influence (and, ergo, gold) you can spend on WvW boosts, because each boost takes quite a while to research. Therefore, if the rate of influence acquisition in a large guild is sufficient to pay for these boosts on its own, there is no possibility of "P2W", because buying extra influence won't make a difference in the slightest. 

And those bought and paid for WvWvW boosts won't make a difference all the time, but there will be occasions when they do, just like that +10 sword.  The reality is WvWvW has a pay2win component in Gw2.  At least some of you don't deny it, but most simply ignore this fact and go back to their "But, but, but, how can purple hat affect PVP?"  That is being oblivious to the fact that you can buy WvWvW boosts with real life money.

GW2 "built from the ground up with microtransactions in mind"
1) Cash->Gems->Gold->Influence->WvWvWBoosts = PAY2WIN
2) Mystic Chests = Crass in-game cash shop advertisements

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2445

7/08/12 9:33:25 AM#425
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Justsomenoob

Peronally I plan on spending thousands of dollars in RL money to gain a serious fashion advantage.

 

How could anyone deal with me in pvp?

 

'he's got the green armor!  NO WAIT HE'S SWITCHING TO THE BLUE SHOES, OH GOD HE WENT BACK TO THE PURPLE SHOES RETREAT RETREAT"

+1

I'm going to applaud you as soon as I finish typing this.

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

And should someone be convicted because of other people actions?

Addictionally Anet has a history with GW1 cash shop,

When/if they sell something else, then one can bash them.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Vorch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 713

7/08/12 9:36:52 AM#426

No sPvP advantage.

Negligible advantage in WvW with 10,000 USD spent (about 64 hours worth of boosts if someone buys mystic keys, get's "boosts" from Mystic Chest, and spreads them across 50 people). I make the HUGE assumption that they have already bought Mystict Chests without RL Money)

Possible advantage in PvE with 10,000 USD spent (XP boost is negligible due to only working on kills, can purchase about 3200 hours worth of statistical boosts if they purchase Mystic Keys and already have ALOT of Mystic Chests. Again, HUGE assumption).

 

The advantage in sPvP is non-existant. The advantage in WvW is possible, but not probable, especially for matches lasting 336 hours with guilds only able to hold one keep at a time. PvE has a possible advantage with 10,000 USD spent, with enough statistical boosts to last 8 characters from level 1-80; they player could even spend as little as 2,000 USD on Mystic Keys and get enough boosts to last an ample amount of time.

 

However, anything less than 5000 USD spent exclusively on Mystic Keys should not yield tangible results in WvW. Could it possibly effect a 1v1 or 5v5 battle? Of course. However, because of its scale and duration, it is simply not probable for multiple people to spend 10,000 USD to win a 2 week battle with slight rewards going to the victor. There really is extremely little incentive.

In PvE, someone could spend alot on statistical advantages (boosts) and be stronger for an extended duration. However, the content of GW2 is designed for players without boosts. No, I have not completed the entire game. However, what has been shown has been able to be completed without any sort of stat buff. In addition, mobs hit hard enough to the point where SKILL is going to be the primary factor in battle, not a boost. There is the possibility that someone may complete PvE content faster than you, but GW2 is designed without traditional endgame AND scales people down to the level of the content around them; there is little incentive to simply rush through to the end.

 

It comes down to this:

Can someone pay to have an advantage in GW2? Yes.

Is that advantage tangible or significant in WvW? No, not imo.

Is that advantage gamebreaking in PvE? No, not from the content that I have seen and partaken in.

Can you complete all the content in GW2 PvE and compete in WvW/sPvP WITHOUT BUYING ANYTHING? Yes.

Is GW2 pay to WIN? No, not imo.

 

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  Raven

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

7/08/12 9:37:41 AM#427
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Justsomenoob

Peronally I plan on spending thousands of dollars in RL money to gain a serious fashion advantage.

 

How could anyone deal with me in pvp?

 

'he's got the green armor!  NO WAIT HE'S SWITCHING TO THE BLUE SHOES, OH GOD HE WENT BACK TO THE PURPLE SHOES RETREAT RETREAT"

+1

I'm going to applaud you as soon as I finish typing this.

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

And should someone be convicted because of other people actions?

Addictionally Anet has a history with GW1 cash shop,

When/if they sell something else, then one can bash them.

You are right, and I agree, but we shouldnt also be blindly trying to pretend that the cash shop isnt a way for them to make additional profit since the game is B2P and nothing sells better than direct advantages ( whatever they might be, better looking gear, in game money, unqiue pets ). So as someone that understands that a business is primarily there to make money I am quite skeptical that they will not sell anything that will increase their profit margin. 

I am not judging ANet as the game hasnt even been released, but saying "No, the game is all balanced, they will never sell X or Y" is just the same as blaming them now for something they arent selling yet. :)

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2445

7/08/12 9:37:43 AM#428
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Skyy_High
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Skyy_High
 

2) Look at the influence boosts you can get in WvW. They are absolutely tiny. If *that* is the extent to which P2W exists in GW2, I can't imagine getting upset about it. Population disparities will affect WvW waaaaaay more than influence spending will. 

So would it also be ok if the cash shop sold a sword that gave you those same "tiny" performance boosts?

Not really the same thing. A +10 sword is always going to be more powerful and useful than the +9 sword. Even if it doesn't make a difference all the time, there will be occasions when it does, just by the virtue of the fact that you're using it over a long period of time. Given that all other gear (no matter the source: drops, loot, dungeons, karma, etc) is normalized to the same stats, one can easily say that gear is supposed to be "balanced", and that the +10 sword would upset that balance. 

On the other hand, WvW isn't balanced, at all. You're never going to be participating in a "balanced" fight. In this context, the pathetic stat bonuses you get from influence (+40 to an attribute that will be over 1000) are literally negligible, because they're just going to vanish in the noise of all of the other WvW unbalancing factors which will have a FAR greater affect on the game. Gold farming is going to matter more than influence spending. Population imbalances are going to trump pretty much anything else. 

Lastly: the influence system is a fundamental part of the guild system. Until release, we really have no idea if the influence costs for these upgrades are going to be high enough to warrant buying gems to buy gold to buy influence. There are only 61 outposts in WvW, and not all of them are really worth spending influence to get these tiny boosts (because the fighting won't consistently happen around them). If it turns out that large WvW-focused guilds are capable of holding keeps and paying for upgrades without resorting to buying gold, then the entire premise of influence allowing for P2W falls apart. There is a maximum cap for how much influence (and, ergo, gold) you can spend on WvW boosts, because each boost takes quite a while to research. Therefore, if the rate of influence acquisition in a large guild is sufficient to pay for these boosts on its own, there is no possibility of "P2W", because buying extra influence won't make a difference in the slightest. 

And those bought and paid for WvWvW boosts won't make a difference all the time, but there will be occasions when they do, just like that +10 sword.  The reality is WvWvW has a pay2win component in Gw2.  At least some of you don't deny it, but most simply ignore this fact and go back to their "But, but, but, how can purple hat affect PVP?"  That is being oblivious to the fact that you can buy WvWvW boosts with real life money.

Have you seen the cost of those boosts?

Do you understand you still need to capture a keep/fort before the boost having any effect?

Do you understand the effect is restricted to an area around the structure the guild controls?

Do you understand that 1 guild can only control 1 structure at a time?

Do you understand that you need to research those boosts?

In theory you can buy those boosts with money, the reality is that it doesn't matter - buying the boosts with money is the least efficient way to do it, the boosts themselves offer negligible advantanges.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Raven

Advanced Member

Joined: 5/20/06
Posts: 1985

"Only the dead have seen the end of war" Plato

7/08/12 9:40:05 AM#429
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Skyy_High
Originally posted by gainesvilleg
Originally posted by Skyy_High
 

2) Look at the influence boosts you can get in WvW. They are absolutely tiny. If *that* is the extent to which P2W exists in GW2, I can't imagine getting upset about it. Population disparities will affect WvW waaaaaay more than influence spending will. 

So would it also be ok if the cash shop sold a sword that gave you those same "tiny" performance boosts?

Not really the same thing. A +10 sword is always going to be more powerful and useful than the +9 sword. Even if it doesn't make a difference all the time, there will be occasions when it does, just by the virtue of the fact that you're using it over a long period of time. Given that all other gear (no matter the source: drops, loot, dungeons, karma, etc) is normalized to the same stats, one can easily say that gear is supposed to be "balanced", and that the +10 sword would upset that balance. 

On the other hand, WvW isn't balanced, at all. You're never going to be participating in a "balanced" fight. In this context, the pathetic stat bonuses you get from influence (+40 to an attribute that will be over 1000) are literally negligible, because they're just going to vanish in the noise of all of the other WvW unbalancing factors which will have a FAR greater affect on the game. Gold farming is going to matter more than influence spending. Population imbalances are going to trump pretty much anything else. 

Lastly: the influence system is a fundamental part of the guild system. Until release, we really have no idea if the influence costs for these upgrades are going to be high enough to warrant buying gems to buy gold to buy influence. There are only 61 outposts in WvW, and not all of them are really worth spending influence to get these tiny boosts (because the fighting won't consistently happen around them). If it turns out that large WvW-focused guilds are capable of holding keeps and paying for upgrades without resorting to buying gold, then the entire premise of influence allowing for P2W falls apart. There is a maximum cap for how much influence (and, ergo, gold) you can spend on WvW boosts, because each boost takes quite a while to research. Therefore, if the rate of influence acquisition in a large guild is sufficient to pay for these boosts on its own, there is no possibility of "P2W", because buying extra influence won't make a difference in the slightest. 

And those bought and paid for WvWvW boosts won't make a difference all the time, but there will be occasions when they do, just like that +10 sword.  The reality is WvWvW has a pay2win component in Gw2.  At least some of you don't deny it, but most simply ignore this fact and go back to their "But, but, but, how can purple hat affect PVP?"  That is being oblivious to the fact that you can buy WvWvW boosts with real life money.

Have you seen the cost of those boosts?

Do you understand you still need to capture a keep/fort before the boost having any effect?

Do you understand the effect is restricted to an area around the structure the guild controls?

Do you understand that 1 guild can only control 1 structure at a time?

Do you understand that you need to research those boosts?

In theory you can buy those boosts with money, the reality is that it doesn't matter - buying the boosts with money is the least efficient way to do it, the boosts themselves offer negligible advantanges.

A nice quote for this, "It doesnt matter if you win by a mile or by an inch, winning is winning". When you are loosing by a negligible disadvantage then the negligible advantage is all you need.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2445

7/08/12 9:43:16 AM#430
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
And should someone be convicted because of other people actions?
Addictionally Anet has a history with GW1 cash shop,

When/if they sell something else, then one can bash them.

You are right, and I agree, but we shouldnt also be blindly trying to pretend that the cash shop isnt a way for them to make additional profit since the game is B2P and nothing sells better than direct advantages ( whatever they might be, better looking gear, in game money, unqiue pets ). So as someone that understands that a business is primarily there to make money I am quite skeptical that they will not sell anything that will increase their profit margin. 

I am not judging ANet as the game hasnt even been released, but saying "No, the game is all balanced, they will never sell X or Y" is just the same as blaming them now for something they arent selling yet. :)

Imagine they have sold power in GW1.

Many of the people that dislike PW2 wouldn't be buying GW2.

If Anet goes that route, they will lose xpack box sales, plus cosmetic sales, plus any future sales of future games.

More, GW/GW2 community is built around PC GAMERS, not RPGers.

For them what matters is power, not some silly cosmetic or time safe advantage.

So no, sword+10 damage would be completely unaceptable.

 

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2445

7/08/12 9:44:28 AM#431
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Have you seen the cost of those boosts?

Do you understand you still need to capture a keep/fort before the boost having any effect?

Do you understand the effect is restricted to an area around the structure the guild controls?

Do you understand that 1 guild can only control 1 structure at a time?

Do you understand that you need to research those boosts?

In theory you can buy those boosts with money, the reality is that it doesn't matter - buying the boosts with money is the least efficient way to do it, the boosts themselves offer negligible advantanges.

A nice quote for this, "It doesnt matter if you win by a mile or by an inch, winning is winning". When you are loosing by a negligible disadvantage then the negligible advantage is all you need.

Summary Description Cost Level Time
Research Art of War Level 1 Research Art of War Level 1 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 1 500 Influence.png - 16 hours
+10% PvP Influence for 3 Days +10% PvP Influence for 3 Days All influence earned in pvp is increased by 10% for 3 days. 100 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 2 Research Art of War Level 2 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 2 1000 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Experience WvW Fort +10% Experience For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give increased exp to defending allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +5 Supply WvW Fort +5 Supply For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Supply to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +10% Magic Find WvW Fort +10% Magic Find For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give allies a better chance to discover rare loot. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
Research Art of War Level 3 Research Art of War Level 3 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 3 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 3 days
WvW Fort +40 Vitality WvW Fort +40 Vitality For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Vitality to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Precision WvW Fort +40 Precision For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Precision to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Power WvW Fort +40 Power For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Power to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Toughness WvW Fort +40 Toughness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Toughness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 4 Research Art of War Level 4 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 4  ? Influence.png Guild Research 3.png  ? days
WvW Fort +10% Healing WvW Fort +10% Healing For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Healing to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Player Health WvW Fort +10% Player Health For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Health to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Guild Catapult Guild Catapult Create a Catapult Siege engine that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 5 Research Art of War Level 5 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 5  ? Influence.png Guild Research 4.png  ? days
Guild Siege Suit Guild Siege Suit Create a Siege Suit that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day
WvW Fort +5% Swiftness WvW Fort +5% Swiftness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Swiftness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day

See 200 influence.

500 influence.

Guilds will earn that in a heart beat.

As you can see, GW2 always have more than 1 resource involved - sure one can buy blue prints, but they need supply.

One can buy influence, but they still need players to claim keeps, they still need research slots, they still need time to research the buffs.

Now, a 2 weeks match requiring one to get around 1.5 million points to win, wtih dozens of locations granting points, it is going to become quite an expensive affair.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Vorch

Apprentice Member

Joined: 9/18/11
Posts: 713

7/08/12 9:59:53 AM#432

I think what people are trying to say in regards to WvW is that the advantage that can be purchased is negligible.

It's not negligible in a 1v1 or small scale battle. A boost can quite plausiblly be a deciding factor (even though the boosts are very small)

It is negligible because WvW is a meta-battle that lasts 2 weeks on a large scale map. Add to taht the fact that Mystic Chests must be found in game, and it is hard to argue that it is P2W.

IMO, its like purchasing a rocket-launcher to alter the course of a tornado. Will you see an immediate effect? Yup, there will be an explosion. However, that tornado's course is not significantly effected.

 

 

If you believe that ANY advantage at ANY time is P2W, then there will be no convincing you. However, I would like you to think of the alternative:

There are some games that don't sell ANY ADVANTAGES  that have gold sellers that are not regulated. In fact, most moderately popular MMOs will have gold sellers who sell power for cash.

Gems are a way of combating that. Will it stop 100% of gold sellers 100% of the time? No. However, I do believe that the way this game has be created and formed will make it significantly more difficult to make a profit. You have multiple currencies, no statistical gear advantage at endgame, and a legal way of purchasing gold without creating inflation.

 

Is the gem system perfect? I don't think so. However, I do believe it is better than the alternative.

"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days— those are now the only two states you’ll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2

  travamars

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/10
Posts: 451

7/08/12 1:55:18 PM#433
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Justsomenoob

Peronally I plan on spending thousands of dollars in RL money to gain a serious fashion advantage.

 

How could anyone deal with me in pvp?

 

'he's got the green armor!  NO WAIT HE'S SWITCHING TO THE BLUE SHOES, OH GOD HE WENT BACK TO THE PURPLE SHOES RETREAT RETREAT"

+1

I'm going to applaud you as soon as I finish typing this.

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

Thats what you cant get through to them. And when those items start popping up they'll have even more lame reasons why its not P2W.

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2445

7/08/12 2:00:21 PM#434
Originally posted by travamars
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by just1opinion
Originally posted by Justsomenoob

Peronally I plan on spending thousands of dollars in RL money to gain a serious fashion advantage.

 

How could anyone deal with me in pvp?

 

'he's got the green armor!  NO WAIT HE'S SWITCHING TO THE BLUE SHOES, OH GOD HE WENT BACK TO THE PURPLE SHOES RETREAT RETREAT"

+1

I'm going to applaud you as soon as I finish typing this.

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

Thats what you cant get through to them. And when those items start popping up they'll have even more lame reasons why its not P2W.

I know at least 3 games that didn't - GW1, LoL, WoT. What about EvE, is that P2W?

Curiously one of them is by Anet.

Just because you guys want Anet to behave like others it doesn't mean it will happen.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  atziluth

Hard Core Member

Joined: 9/18/04
Posts: 1220

Killer 73.33%
Achiever 60.00%
Socializer 40.00%
Explorer 26.67%

7/08/12 2:01:12 PM#435
Originally posted by travamars

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

Thats what you cant get through to them. And when those items start popping up they'll have even more lame reasons why its not P2W.

Yeah... It's not like they have a previous game using the exact same revenue model and a cash shop with no competative advantage... Oh wait they DO!

-Atziluth-

- Never underestimate the predictability of stupidity.

  travamars

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/10
Posts: 451

7/08/12 2:03:33 PM#436
Originally posted by atziluth
Originally posted by travamars

Right, because every single game out there with a cash shop didnt say before release that the cash shop was just about "items that dont affect the game" and then give it 6 months items that do affect the game start popping up :P Its completely unheard of, but I am sure ANet is different they are only doing GW2 for the love that they have for other people.

Thats what you cant get through to them. And when those items start popping up they'll have even more lame reasons why its not P2W.

Yeah... It's not like they have a previous game using the exact same revenue model and a cash shop with no competative advantage... Oh wait they DO!

Really? And what game might that be? And dont bother to say GW1 because that is not an mmo.

 

  travamars

Apprentice Member

Joined: 11/14/10
Posts: 451

7/08/12 2:05:07 PM#437
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Have you seen the cost of those boosts?

Do you understand you still need to capture a keep/fort before the boost having any effect?

Do you understand the effect is restricted to an area around the structure the guild controls?

Do you understand that 1 guild can only control 1 structure at a time?

Do you understand that you need to research those boosts?

In theory you can buy those boosts with money, the reality is that it doesn't matter - buying the boosts with money is the least efficient way to do it, the boosts themselves offer negligible advantanges.

A nice quote for this, "It doesnt matter if you win by a mile or by an inch, winning is winning". When you are loosing by a negligible disadvantage then the negligible advantage is all you need.

Summary Description Cost Level Time
Research Art of War Level 1 Research Art of War Level 1 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 1 500 Influence.png - 16 hours
+10% PvP Influence for 3 Days +10% PvP Influence for 3 Days All influence earned in pvp is increased by 10% for 3 days. 100 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 2 Research Art of War Level 2 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 2 1000 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Experience WvW Fort +10% Experience For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give increased exp to defending allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +5 Supply WvW Fort +5 Supply For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Supply to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +10% Magic Find WvW Fort +10% Magic Find For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give allies a better chance to discover rare loot. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
Research Art of War Level 3 Research Art of War Level 3 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 3 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 3 days
WvW Fort +40 Vitality WvW Fort +40 Vitality For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Vitality to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Precision WvW Fort +40 Precision For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Precision to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Power WvW Fort +40 Power For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Power to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Toughness WvW Fort +40 Toughness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Toughness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 4 Research Art of War Level 4 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 4  ? Influence.png Guild Research 3.png  ? days
WvW Fort +10% Healing WvW Fort +10% Healing For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Healing to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Player Health WvW Fort +10% Player Health For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Health to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Guild Catapult Guild Catapult Create a Catapult Siege engine that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 5 Research Art of War Level 5 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 5  ? Influence.png Guild Research 4.png  ? days
Guild Siege Suit Guild Siege Suit Create a Siege Suit that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day
WvW Fort +5% Swiftness WvW Fort +5% Swiftness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Swiftness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day

See 200 influence.

500 influence.

Guilds will earn that in a heart beat.

As you can see, GW2 always have more than 1 resource involved - sure one can buy blue prints, but they need supply.

One can buy influence, but they still need players to claim keeps, they still need research slots, they still need time to research the buffs.

Now, a 2 weeks match requiring one to get around 1.5 million points to win, wtih dozens of locations granting points, it is going to become quite an expensive affair.

Looks like one expensive game. I'd rather pay $15 a month and be done with it.

  nGumball

Novice Member

Joined: 7/08/12
Posts: 22

7/08/12 2:07:31 PM#438

It is only you.

Btw, even if its P2P .. Anet won´t be losing anything because GW2 is, anyway, the best MMO in the market nowadays. On the other hand Anet wanted to make a revolution in the gaming industry and this new '' B2P '' is just one of the many steps it is making to make GW2 the best MMORPG  ever made. Which is not that far away btw. So a P2W can destroey everyhthing nd I don´t think that ANet can take that risk.

PS. For those saying that B2P ( buy to play ) can´t work without '' pay 2 win '', check GW1 ;)

 

  Gaia_Hunter

Elite Member

Joined: 5/04/12
Posts: 2445

7/08/12 2:11:23 PM#439
Originally posted by travamars
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter
Originally posted by rav3n2
Originally posted by Gaia_Hunter

Have you seen the cost of those boosts?

Do you understand you still need to capture a keep/fort before the boost having any effect?

Do you understand the effect is restricted to an area around the structure the guild controls?

Do you understand that 1 guild can only control 1 structure at a time?

Do you understand that you need to research those boosts?

In theory you can buy those boosts with money, the reality is that it doesn't matter - buying the boosts with money is the least efficient way to do it, the boosts themselves offer negligible advantanges.

A nice quote for this, "It doesnt matter if you win by a mile or by an inch, winning is winning". When you are loosing by a negligible disadvantage then the negligible advantage is all you need.

Summary Description Cost Level Time
Research Art of War Level 1 Research Art of War Level 1 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 1 500 Influence.png - 16 hours
+10% PvP Influence for 3 Days +10% PvP Influence for 3 Days All influence earned in pvp is increased by 10% for 3 days. 100 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 2 Research Art of War Level 2 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 2 1000 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Experience WvW Fort +10% Experience For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give increased exp to defending allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +5 Supply WvW Fort +5 Supply For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Supply to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +10% Magic Find WvW Fort +10% Magic Find For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give allies a better chance to discover rare loot. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
Research Art of War Level 3 Research Art of War Level 3 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 3 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 3 days
WvW Fort +40 Vitality WvW Fort +40 Vitality For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Vitality to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Precision WvW Fort +40 Precision For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Precision to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Power WvW Fort +40 Power For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Power to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Toughness WvW Fort +40 Toughness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Toughness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 4 Research Art of War Level 4 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 4  ? Influence.png Guild Research 3.png  ? days
WvW Fort +10% Healing WvW Fort +10% Healing For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Healing to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Player Health WvW Fort +10% Player Health For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Health to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Guild Catapult Guild Catapult Create a Catapult Siege engine that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 5 Research Art of War Level 5 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 5  ? Influence.png Guild Research 4.png  ? days
Guild Siege Suit Guild Siege Suit Create a Siege Suit that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day
WvW Fort +5% Swiftness WvW Fort +5% Swiftness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Swiftness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day

See 200 influence.

500 influence.

Guilds will earn that in a heart beat.

As you can see, GW2 always have more than 1 resource involved - sure one can buy blue prints, but they need supply.

One can buy influence, but they still need players to claim keeps, they still need research slots, they still need time to research the buffs.

Now, a 2 weeks match requiring one to get around 1.5 million points to win, wtih dozens of locations granting points, it is going to become quite an expensive affair.

Looks like one expensive game. I'd rather pay $15 a month and be done with it.

Why expensive?

Guilds earn influence by having their players playing the game. So it is free. :)

Now imagine I want to make a personal guild to store goods - since I'll have 0 guildies, it would take some time to get the upgrades and storage I want. So, if I'm impatiante I can just buy influence via gold. If I don't have enough gold I can buy gems and get the gold to get what I want. And someone else will get their 6th or 7th character slot for free,

Summary Description Cost Level Time
Research Architecture Level 1 Research Architecture Level 1 Increase your guild's skill in Architecture to Level 1 500 Influence.png - 16 hours
Guild Workshop Guild Workshop The workshop allows an additional upgrade to be building simultaneously. 500 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 2 days
Research Architecture Level 2 Research Architecture Level 2 Increase your guild's skill in Architecture to Level 2 1000 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
Guild Stash Guild Stash Grants access to a 50 slot Guild Vault and gold storage 1000 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 2 days
Research Architecture Level 3 Research Architecture Level 3 Increase your guild's skill in Architecture to Level 3 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 3 days
Research Architecture Level 4 Research Architecture Level 4 Increase your guild's skill in Architecture to Level 4  ? Influence.png Guild Research 3.png  ? days
Guild Treasure Trove Guild Treasure Trove Grants access to a 100 slot Guild Vault 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 week
Research Architecture Level 5 Research Architecture Level 5 Increase your guild's skill in Architecture to Level 5  ? Influence.png Guild Research 4.png  ? days
Deep Cave Deep Cave The Deep Cave will expand your treasure trove by another 100 slots 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 wee

Money will give advantages, but not statistical advantages. The WvW "advantages" are limited by other factors like supply, research slots, time, require people in the first place and all can be acquired easily by playing normaly.

Currently playing: GW2
Cooperative (semi cooperative)board games you should check: Pandemic, Sentinels of the Multiverse, Eldritch Horror, Descent 2.0,Level 7 Omega Protocol, Last Night on Earth

  Sebber

Novice Member

Joined: 6/13/12
Posts: 230

7/08/12 2:12:55 PM#440
Summary Description Cost Level Time
Research Art of War Level 1 Research Art of War Level 1 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 1 500 Influence.png - 16 hours
+10% PvP Influence for 3 Days +10% PvP Influence for 3 Days All influence earned in pvp is increased by 10% for 3 days. 100 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 2 Research Art of War Level 2 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 2 1000 Influence.png Guild Research 1.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Experience WvW Fort +10% Experience For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give increased exp to defending allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +5 Supply WvW Fort +5 Supply For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Supply to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
WvW Fort +10% Magic Find WvW Fort +10% Magic Find For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give allies a better chance to discover rare loot. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 16 hours
Research Art of War Level 3 Research Art of War Level 3 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 3 5000 Influence.png Guild Research 2.png 3 days
WvW Fort +40 Vitality WvW Fort +40 Vitality For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Vitality to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Precision WvW Fort +40 Precision For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Precision to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Power WvW Fort +40 Power For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Power to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
WvW Fort +40 Toughness WvW Fort +40 Toughness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Toughness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 3.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 4 Research Art of War Level 4 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 4  ? Influence.png Guild Research 3.png  ? days
WvW Fort +10% Healing WvW Fort +10% Healing For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Healing to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
WvW Fort +10% Player Health WvW Fort +10% Player Health For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Health to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 200 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Guild Catapult Guild Catapult Create a Catapult Siege engine that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 4.png 1 day
Research Art of War Level 5 Research Art of War Level 5 Increase your guild's skill in Art of War to Level 5  ? Influence.png Guild Research 4.png  ? days
Guild Siege Suit Guild Siege Suit Create a Siege Suit that costs less supply to set up than normal. (requires Foundry from Architecture) 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day
WvW Fort +5% Swiftness WvW Fort +5% Swiftness For 12 Hrs, any fortification held by your guild in World Vs World will give improved Swiftness to all allies. Lasts 12 hours. 500 Influence.png Guild Research 5.png 1 day

Looks like one expensive game. I'd rather pay $15 a month and be done with it.

I don't see how you will get cheaper guild perks by paying 15$ a month.

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